This is getting pretty ridiculous. Takizawa, who time and time again proved he was one of the strongest ghouls thus far, gets taken out by some blood spewn in his face and his dong crushed. And by who? A Quinx who was easily outmatched by an A-ranked ghoul just a few hours ago. But she's got white hair now, so I guess that explains it all.
Ui should be able to kill Tsukiyama and the rest, but I wouldn't bet on it at all.
As for Nishiki, he got wrecked yet again. I think that makes it the 6th time. Lmao at his remark about the subjects. He seems confident he can take on Roma, who I'm glad reappeared - wouldn't mind seeing her beg for mercy.
Imo, the reason he wants Kanou is because something is up with Kimi, possibly to heal her. Perhaps she was who Touka was visiting in that hospital in the first chapters. Either that or it's a Yoshimura rescue attempt.
Really hoping the Akira mourning doesn't take more than a few pages.
This is getting pretty ridiculous. Takizawa, who time and time again proved he was one of the strongest ghouls thus far, gets taken out by some blood spewn in his face and his dong crushed. And by who? A Quinx who was easily outmatched by an A-ranked ghoul just a few hours ago. But she's got white hair now, so I guess that explains it all.
Ui should be able to kill Tsukiyama and the rest, but I wouldn't bet on it at all.
As for Nishiki, he got wrecked yet again. I think that makes it the 6th time. Lmao at his remark about the subjects. He seems confident he can take on Roma, who I'm glad reappeared - wouldn't mind seeing her beg for mercy.
Imo, the reason he wants Kanou is because something is up with Kimi, possibly to heal her. Perhaps she was who Touka was visiting in that hospital in the first chapters. Either that or it's a Yoshimura rescue attempt.
Really hoping the Akira mourning doesn't take more than a few pages.
I smell BS as soon as I see that mutsuki. Ishida making her neg owl who neg SS tatara. And Takizawa was on par with SS kaneki. I'm afraid I will drop this series very soon. Too much BS
Takizawa fights two people before Mutsuki and people think this is bs. lmao
The bigger joke here is that some thought there was a thing as.Mustuki being so weak to get trashed.
:lol A much inferior Kaneki one-shotted a Special Class investigator, went on to fight and defeat the entire platoon that was beating Irimi, fought and defeated Amon who used V2 Arata and lance. Zero fatigue shown before the massive injury he sustained. But somehow, an SS Owl that didn't even get hurt is supposed to be so affected by the fights he really didn't struggle too much in that it would bring him down almost down to Mitsuki's level. Lmao, no way. Stamina had nothing to do with this, lame af excuse unsupported by anything.
You seem to talk like you know her true level, which was clearly shown by feats - she tried to fight Torso a few chapters ago, failed and was captured. Torso would get eviscerated against Takizawa. Don't really care how strong you assume Mitsuki is, facts speak otherwise and when a weakling suddenly beats a top-tier ghoul it is the definition of BS. And no, this really isn't the same as Ken before and after Jason, because we knew for a fact he had an extremely potent kakuhou (even a ghoul that beat Eto uses it currently) in him plus he was the only true successful experiment of Kanou's. Mitsuki is just... Mitsuki.
As for Nishiki, he got wrecked yet again. I think that makes it the 6th time. Lmao at his remark about the subjects. He seems confident he can take on Roma, who I'm glad reappeared - wouldn't mind seeing her beg for mercy.
No way, Roma is too strong for him - Nishiki's going to beg for mercy, "P-please Roma, I was a fool for thinking I could outmatch you! I love Clowns!!!"
Imo, the reason he wants Kanou is because something is up with Kimi, possibly to heal her. Perhaps she was who Touka was visiting in that hospital in the first chapters. Either that or it's a Yoshimura rescue attempt.
I had the same thought, except that instead of healing her, he's interested if Kanou has developed some treatment, drug, or procedure to make half-ghouls more conceivable. Nishiki is a pharmeceutical student so I'm sure he could learn something from the great doctor.
Kimi can always cannibalize like Ukina did, but I think Ishida is going to introduce safer methods via Nishiki's quest for knowledge.
tl;dr Nishiki's goal is to have a child with Kimi without putting her through the stress of eating humans.
:lol A much inferior Kaneki one-shotted a Special Class investigator, went on to fight and defeat the entire platoon that was beating Irimi, fought and defeated Amon who used V2 Arata and lance. Zero fatigue shown before the massive injury he sustained. But somehow, an SS Owl that didn't even get hurt is supposed to be so affected by the fights he really didn't struggle too much in that it would bring him down almost down to Mitsuki's level. Lmao, no way. Stamina had nothing to do with this, lame af excuse unsupported by anything.
You seem to talk like you know her true level, which was clearly shown by feats - she tried to fight Torso a few chapters ago, failed and was captured. Torso would get eviscerated against Takizawa. Don't really care how strong you assume Mitsuki is, facts speak otherwise and when a weakling suddenly beats a top-tier ghoul it is the definition of BS. And no, this really isn't the same as Ken before and after Jason, because we knew for a fact he had an extremely potent kakuhou (even a ghoul that beat Eto uses it currently) in him plus he was the only true successful experiment of Kanou's. Mitsuki is just... Mitsuki.
And you talk like you didn't understand a shit while reading the chapter.
First of all, Mutsuki didn't make a ***** out of Takizawa. He wasn't even too impressed by what happened and the fight is far from over.
Comparing him with Kaneki is the next joke. Takizawa is an Ukaku, which is known for low stamina.
The real bs would be if he'd still be at 100% after fighting Houji, Tatara and Amon.
No way, Roma is too strong for him - Nishiki's going to beg for mercy, "P-please Roma, I was a fool for thinking I could outmatch you! I love Clowns!!!"
I had the same thought, except that instead of healing her, he's interested if Kanou has developed some treatment, drug, or procedure to make half-ghouls more conceivable.
tl;dr Nishiki's goal is to have a child with Kimi without putting her through the stress of eating humans.
This would definitely be Kimi's idea, then. Don't really see Nishiki being too passionate about having kids. :lol
Gintoki said:
Comparing him with Kaneki is the next joke. Takizawa is an Ukaku, which is known for low staming.
The real bs would be if he'd still be at 100% after fighting Houji, Tatara and Amon.
One of the dumbest things I've read here. You mean to tell me original TG Kaneki had more stamina than an SS Owl just because he was rinkaku? Think you don't get the fact that more RC cells and ghoul strength mitigates that difference, and Ukaku's having lower stamina is only relevant when we're comparing ghouls of similar ability. What you're saying here equates to me saying: "Uhh, Eto is an Ukaku, so of course she would tire faster than Jason".
Can you show me a panel where Takizawa is even slightly phased or makes a remark about it? Though seeing as how you apparently have a special vision and know what ink characters truly feel, maybe you're right.
Lmao, seriously? Houji was one-paneled. Amon was clearly outmatched. Only Tatara was more or less dangerous and he didn't last more than a few minutes, either.
Even if he wasn't at full, his "50%" is still >> Mitsuki based on feats. That's how manga portrayed it. Though if Yomo can block Narukami with his forearms then this can totally happen as well, so I'll just drop this argument.
One of the dumbest things I've read here. You mean to tell me original TG Kaneki had more stamina than an SS Owl just because he was rinkaku? Think you don't get the fact that more RC cells and ghoul strength mitigates that difference, and Ukaku's having lower stamina is only relevant when we're comparing ghouls of similar ability. What you're saying here equates to me saying: "Uhh, Eto is an Ukaku, so of course she would tire faster than Jason".
Can you show me a panel where Takizawa is even slightly phased or makes a remark about it? Though seeing as how you apparently have a special vision and know what ink characters truly feel, maybe you're right.
Lmao, seriously? Houji was one-paneled. Amon was clearly outmatched. Only Tatara was more or less dangerous and he didn't last more than a few minutes, either.
Even if he wasn't at full, his "50%" is still >> Mitsuki based on feats. That's how manga portrayed it. Though if Yomo can block Narukami with his forearms then this can totally happen as well, so I'll just drop this argument.
First of all more RC cells does not necessary mean stronger, especially for half-ghouls. Sasaki with RC level of 2753 was destroying Kanae and Eto on the roof. As Eto mentioned Quality + Quantity = kagune size
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Secondly, it's alright when Ken, who had almost no combat training, takes out Jason and Ayato after being tortured.
However, when Mutsuki, who has years of combat training using quinque and kagune, knows ghoul anatomy and weaknesses, manages to corner Takizawa after being tortured it's bs. smh
By feats Ken should have been roflstomped by Jason or Ayato during first Aogiri Raid. "That's how manga portrayed it". But you didn't have issues with Kaneki destroying both of them. smh
Even (mentally weak) Sasaki was able to seriously wound Takizawa during Auction.
At this point, Takizawa is overrated, while Mutsuki is underrated.
I smell BS as soon as I see that mutsuki. Ishida making her neg owl who neg SS tatara. And Takizawa was on par with SS kaneki. I'm afraid I will drop this series very soon. Too much BS
i partially agree with you
the power disparity is real
i would guess the reason all of this has happened to quickly is ishida is done with the development of those characters and has something he is anxiously waiting to add to the story so he sorta pushes the plot along
First of all more RC cells does not necessary mean stronger, especially for half-ghouls. Sasaki with RC level of 2753 was destroying Kanae and Eto on the roof. As Eto mentioned Quality + Quantity = kagune size
My whole point was proving stamina is irrelevant when the difference in ghouls's strength is incomparable. That statement about Ukaku ghouls tiring out more quickly is only true as far as their opponent is more or less comparable to them, otherwise I'd be claiming something like a koukaku like Tsukiyama being able to last longer in battle than Takizawa, when the difference between them power-wise is far too large for the "Ukaku = less stamina" fact to matter. Same thing applies to the situation with Mitsuki.
I don't even know why you're showing me that scan or arguing that Haise beat Kanae and Eto when it has zilch to do with what I'm trying to get across. Not to mention that scan doesn't even say the same thing you're trying to argue - all Eto says is that the kagune strength depends on the ghoul wielding it, not that more RC cells doesn't mean more overall ability. Far too many examples prove that.
Secondly, it's alright when Ken, who had almost no combat training, takes out Jason and Ayato after being tortured.
However, when Mutsuki, who has years of combat training using quinque and kagune, knows ghoul anatomy and weaknesses, manages to corner Takizawa after being tortured it's bs. smh
By feats Ken should have been roflstomped by Jason or Ayato during first Aogiri Raid. "That's how manga portrayed it". But you didn't have issues with Kaneki destroying both of them. smh
Lol, this guy. I already addressed this, but I'll repeat again - Rize's kakuhou was extremely potent, currently used by the strongest ghoul and a ghoul that took out Eto. To add on to the point, Rize herself was at least on Jason and Ayato's level based on countless portrayal that to this day doesn't end, plus her casually taking out the 11rd Ward's leader. Obviously once Ken actually grew the balls to use her full power he would also stomp them. He already received combat training from Yomo, him casually avoiding attacks and suddenly being good at fighting just means he was finally using his latent potential, something Mitsuki's never stated or hinted to have, on top of her kakuhou donor probably being a random ghoul. Also, what Ken did was at the beginning of the whole TG story, so obviously I had little to look back upon and judge, thus nothing to object to and criticize. Try again.
Arima said:
Even (mentally weak) Sasaki was able to seriously wound Takizawa during Auction.
When you post a scan of a ghoul that lost to an A-rank weakling wounding Takizawa, then you'd have a point. Oh, wait... no such scan exist except for today's chapter. Yeap, suddenly shifting power balance, alright.
I think you need to reread the manga if you think Takizawa is overrated. He toyed with Haise, was about to kill even his mental version before Arima arived, negged a dual-kagune ghoul (Hinami), took out an SS-ghoul, one-shotted a Special Class investigator, has a complete Kakuja and overall has had little to none difficulty destroying everyone in his way?
While on the flip side you have Mitsuki, who Torso canonically defeated hours ago. Without feats or portrayal, you can't just be claiming stuff like this b. I know you're trying to defend your manga, but come on.
My whole point was proving stamina is irrelevant when the difference in ghouls's strength is incomparable. That statement about Ukaku ghouls tiring out more quickly is only true as far as their opponent is more or less comparable to them, otherwise I'd be claiming something like a koukaku like Tsukiyama being able to last longer in battle than Takizawa, when the difference between them power-wise is far too large for the "Ukaku = less stamina" fact to matter. Same thing applies to the situation with Mitsuki.
I don't even know why you're showing me that scan or arguing that Haise beat Kanae and Eto when it has zilch to do with what I'm trying to get across. Not to mention that scan doesn't even say the same thing you're trying to argue - all Eto says is that the kagune strength depends on the ghoul wielding it, not that more RC cells doesn't mean more overall ability. Far too many examples prove that.
It was you who brought up RC cells in the first place. In your post you said "more RC cells...mitigate the difference", and I pointed out that it's not necessarily true.
Regarding Eto scan, I can put it together for you:
Eto - "A kagune's size is determined by the quality and quantity of your RC cells" --> Eto has massive Kagune --> has much more RC cells than Sasaki --> yet was wrecked by Sasaki on the roof --> conclusion: more RC cells does not necessarily mean stronger.
Same logic applies to Kanae who was on steroids received from Eto.
Lol, this guy. I already addressed this, but I'll repeat again - Rize's kakuhou was extremely potent, currently used by the strongest ghoul and a ghoul that took out Eto. To add on to the point, Rize herself was at least on Jason and Ayato's level based on countless portrayal that to this day doesn't end, plus her casually taking out the 11rd Ward's leader. Obviously once Ken actually grew the balls to use her full power he would also stomp them. He already received combat training from Yomo, him casually avoiding attacks and suddenly being good at fighting just means he was finally using his latent potential, something Mitsuki's never stated or hinted to have, on top of her kakuhou donor probably being a random ghoul. Also, what Ken did was at the beginning of the whole TG story, so obviously I had little to look back upon and judge, thus nothing to object to and criticize. Try again.
"Rize's kakuhou is extremely potent." Sure, but that doesn't make everyone who has her kakuhou extremely strong. It just depends on a person. For instance, young Juuzou alone wrecked twins, even though they also had Rize's kakuhou.
You make it sound as if Rize's kakuhou was the only reason Kaneki got this strong, most of it was actually due to torture and change in personality, and Mutsuki been through same experience.
CCG were working towards creating half-ghouls for a long time, so it's presumptuous to assume they would transplant some random kakuhou.
As for potential, Mutsuki has plenty of potential. Her past experiences were much worse compared to Kaneki's, therefore she was much more mentally suppressed. However, now that she has gotten over it, I'm not surprised she has gotten this strong, considering she had much more extensive combat training under CCG.
When you post a scan of a ghoul that lost to an A-rank weakling wounding Takizawa, then you'd have a point. Oh, wait... no such scan exist except for today's chapter. Yeap, suddenly shifting power balance, alright.
I think you need to reread the manga if you think Takizawa is overrated. He toyed with Haise, was about to kill even his mental version before Arima arived, negged a dual-kagune ghoul (Hinami), took out an SS-ghoul, one-shotted a Special Class investigator, has a complete Kakuja and overall has had little to none difficulty destroying everyone in his way?
While on the flip side you have Mitsuki, who Torso canonically defeated hours ago. Without feats or portrayal, you can't just be claiming stuff like this b. I know you're trying to defend your manga, but come on.
"has a complete Kakuja" --> lol, he doesn't have complete Kakuja.
"canonically defeated hours ago" --> hours ago? She was captured before island invasion when Hachikawa squad was investigating the island, the invasion did not start right away and the island invasion lasted at least five days. All that time she was being tortured by sick Torso.
From the way it looks, it's not me who needs to reread manga, lol.
Kaneki was also without feats before fighting Jason or Ayato.
As for portrayal, she has a lot of potential considering her past and how much she had to suppress true (possibly murderous) self. But now she is over it.
I believe her portrayal is very similar to how Kaneki became badass. The fact that she had it much worse than Kaneki in the past makes it even more believable. But hey, you're free to think what you want.
It was you who brought up RC cells in the first place. In your post you said "more RC cells...mitigate the difference", and I pointed out that it's not necessarily true.
You didn't point it out, as the scan you provided says nothing of the sorts. Then there's the fact a much superior ghoul >>>> a ghoul that has a kagune that doesn't make him tire out fast. If you, like that guy who made this point, also seriously think Eto or Yoshimura or Takizawa can be so tired out it can put them on the level of people that are vastly below them like Mitsuki then there's probably nothing I can say that can change that since your thinking is fundamentally flawed.
Regarding Eto scan, I can put it together for you:
Eto - "A kagune's size is determined by the quality and quantity of your RC cells" --> Eto has massive Kagune --> has much more RC cells than Sasaki --> yet was wrecked by Sasaki on the roof --> conclusion: more RC cells does not necessarily mean stronger.
Same logic applies to Kanae who was on steroids received from Eto.
Not only does this still not address the failed stamina point that other guy brought up, but Eto was never in this series overpowered by a kagune in which case this example would matter. Kaneki barely even used his, dodged all of her attacks and didn't enter a direct clash with her. He sliced her when he found an opening. Now that I think about it, Eto's full kakuja was always beaten by someone agile enough. Furthermore, literally two ghouls have defeated her, both of which were half-ghouls, holders of Rize's kakuhou. You're giving me the 1% and expect me to believe it applies universally to all the ghouls and Mitsuki, even though she has never had anything impressive going for her. More RC cells does mean a stronger ghoul, as Eto is stronger than 99% of ghouls. Fact. Lastly, your only example seems to be with the main character of the series who Kanou still tries to replicate is currently the strongest ghoul, so that really doesn't work too well.
You don't even know how high Kanae's RC count was, so moot point. "Steroids from Eto" doesn't mean he jumped higher than Ken at that point.
"Rize's kakuhou is extremely potent." Sure, but that doesn't make everyone who has her kakuhou extremely strong. It just depends on a person. For instance, young Juuzou alone wrecked twins, even though they also had Rize's kakuhou.
Bad example, twins were hardly as successful of an experiment as Ken, plus it's almost certain their RC count was lower than Ken's. When are you going to address this? Kanou pretty much wanks the guy more than his actual fans, so of course Kurona and Nashiro aren't comparable to him.
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This scan takes care of that attempt of an excuse.
You make it sound as if Rize's kakuhou was the only reason Kaneki got this strong, most of it was actually due to torture and change in personality, and Mutsuki been through same experience.
Lmao. You do realize the torture itself wasn't what made him suddenly contend with S-ranks, right? Kaneki before was rejecting his ghoul side and unwilling to harm anyone. He was basically holding back his entire power. The torment Jason put him through made him adopt a new modus-operandi, and he unleashed everything he had. Only problem is, if Kaneki was a fodder from the beginning with no hinted or inherited strength and his kakuhou wasn't Rize's there's no reason to believe he would've beaten half-kakuja Jason.
And that's exactly what Mitsuki is.
- Torture and change in personality does not magically make someone a top tier
- Kaneki had massive build up that he was actually strong, plus he never actually used his power before this. Mitsuki, on the other hand, had none of that plus used most of her power before and she wasn't impressive.
- Takizawa >>>>>>> Jason, thus Kaneki beating Jason is way more likely than Mitsuki knocking down and stunning Takizawa, coupled with the nobody Mitsuki is and who Kaneki was.
Arima said:
CCG were working towards creating half-ghouls for a long time, so it's presumptuous to assume they would transplant some random kakuhou.
When you got the scans that prove that, call me. Until then, he/she remains a random ghoul.
Arima said:
As for potential, Mutsuki has plenty of potential. Her past experiences were much worse compared to Kaneki's, therefore she was much more mentally suppressed. However, now that she has gotten over it, I'm not surprised she has gotten this strong, considering she had much more extensive combat training under CCG.
There you go with the magical tragic experiences again. You seem to think it just makes ghouls take a leap in power. Whole manga has a pletora of characters that have suffered way worse than her, but I don't see them doing the BS she pulls.
More extensive combat training, you mean the same that got her beaten by Torso twice? If you mean that because of her change in character she is now able to use it fully, then you're gonna have to show me where she wasn't using all she had because of some reason, like Ken who didn't want to hurt others.
I mean look at this:
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Those are literally nobodies that 2-paged her. Again, not comparable to the main character. Screw off with your "potential".
Arima said:
Mutsuki is an A-rank? Oh, wait... that's just your opinion.
Really? I obviously meant Torso. And that latter sentence is pretty funny coming from you, basically 80% of your post is an opinion unsupported by facts.
:lol That selective reading. You know full well he was getting tossed around before going mental, even after that he got pinned before the point blank stab that there's no way he could've avoided.
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after it. A page later Haise is in the same relative condition. Though it is true he managed to wound him.
Hopefully this doesn't mean you think Mitsuki is near that same Haise's level.
Arima said:
"has a complete Kakuja" --> lol, he doesn't have complete Kakuja.
His mask is different, covers his full face, he demonstrated a new form of his kakuja and most importantly he doesn't spew incoherent babble, in fact the last scan shows him being relatively normal (as far as Takizawa goes). That's the definition of a full kakuja.
Arima said:
"canonically defeated hours ago" --> hours ago? She was captured before island invasion when Hachikawa squad was investigating the island, the invasion did not start right away and the island invasion lasted at least five days. All that time she was being tortured by sick Torso.
As for portrayal, she has a lot of potential considering her past and how much she had to suppress true (possibly murderous) self. But now she is over it.
Her portrayal is a joke. Ishida is trying to push off a mirror of Kaneki for the sake of all that duality, but it's not working out, honestly. Mitsuki is a nobody, Kaneki wasn't. Now that I think about it, Urie would seem at least equally believable. He didn't have early Ken's reserved attitude, but he's clearly portrayed the most potential out of all the Quinx. Though that's more subjective than what's the main argument here.
Arima said:
The fact that she had it much worse than Kaneki in the past makes it even more believable.
No, it doesn't. How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? So I guess put anyone with a tragic backstory (in Tokyo Ghoul - quite a few) under Jason or Torso's torture and they'll come out as top-tiers. Yeah, keep dreaming.
I also don't see the fact Mitsuki lost to Torso addressed, but knowing you, that wouldn't count because that was before she was tortured.
Case and point: losing to an A-rank ghoul and getting tortured will not instantly put you near an SS Owl's level. You can dance around that however you want, but for now it's Ishida just probably not really caring about power consistency. You don't have to defend every little thing about this manga that's criticized, especially when most of what you argue is based off on your assumptions.
It was you who brought up RC cells in the first place. In your post you said "more RC cells...mitigate the difference", and I pointed out that it's not necessarily true.
Why are you trying so hard?? Arima can extreme stomp neg mitsuki at the beginning, and now arima still can extreme stomp neg her. Wait I take that back, with an S rate S pull like this, I don't doubt mitsuki can "trick" arima and grab his balls and make him swallow her vomit
Why are you trying so hard?? Arima can extreme stomp neg mitsuki at the beginning, and now arima still can extreme stomp neg her. Wait I take that back, with an S rate S pull like this, I don't doubt mitsuki can "trick" arima and grab his balls and make him swallow her vomit
I'm actually saying I won't doubt mitsuki can put up a fight with an S pull like this. I actually wouldn't doubt mitsuki would neg Takizawa as soon as I saw her popped up last chapter. I was afraid of an S pull like this because Takizawa needed to be beaten for amon mado plot. If urie popped up instead of mutsuki, he would've beaten Takizawa due to plot
The author simply trying to throw us off by making us think it's Suzuki, he think he got us with mitsuki. It's more like he got us with a joke
