Tobi's Identity Mishap

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Laughing at the irony of this thread. If we learned anything we learned that Kishimoto can write events after the fact to fit the evidence. Be cautious with assumptions because they make an ass out of you and some guy named Mptions.

Quite the contrary it shows Kishimoto can be both subtle and obvious at times, he was counting on readers to look for an alternative to Tobi's identity instead of Obito because Tobi=Obito was "so obvious it had to be untrue" mentality that readers fell for, this is also true with those who deny the Sage=Uzumaki, some are merely repeating the mistakes of the past by denying the obvious Lol

 

[Flawž]

Quite the contrary it shows Kishimoto can be both subtle and obvious at times, he was counting on readers to look for an alternative to Tobi's identity instead of Obito because Tobi=Obito was "so obvious it had to be untrue" mentality that readers fell for, this is also true with those who deny the Sage=Uzumaki, some are merely repeating the mistakes of the past by denying the obvious Lol

I like how you use the Tobi = Obito against the Rikudo = uzumaki theorists.

I def agree that its just as obvious. xd

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I like how you use the Tobi = Obito against the Rikudo = uzumaki theorists.

I def agree that its just as obvious. xd

Indeed, and it was obvious from the start that Tobi was meant to be Obito because Kakashi Gaiden would not have been introduced if it wasn't material, pertinent and relevant to the present timeline. Obviously the offended party (Obito) must be kept alive for the full exposition and resolution regarding the matter of the unkept promise of Kakashi protecting Rin.

 

[Flawž]

Indeed, and it was obvious from the start that Tobi was meant to be Obito because Kakashi Gaiden would not have been introduced if it wasn't material, pertinent and relevant to the present timeline.

Exactly. One could think that Kakashi Gaiden was meant to show us how kakashi got his eye, But Kishi meant for it to be much bigger.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Exactly. One could think that Kakashi Gaiden was meant to show us how kakashi got his eye, But Kishi meant for it to be much bigger.

It was obvious that the "star" of Kakashi Gaiden was not its name bearer but Obito Uchiha, he was the character who was being built up by Kishimoto so I doubted his development stopped when he was presumed dead, obviously he was kept alive for the full development and maturation of his character.

 

[Flawž]

It was obvious that the "star" of Kakashi Gaiden was not its name bearer but Obito Uchiha, he was the character who was being built up by Kishimoto so I doubted his development stopped when he was presumed dead, obviously he was kept alive for the full development and maturation of his character.

well put.

I feel that obito was the best person being tobi because of his back story and his relationships with the main characters.
i don't understand why people would want izuna or kagami as tobi? Lol

 

[Bantos]

I just always thought that Tobi had Obito's other eye.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

well put.

I feel that obito was the best person being tobi because of his back story and his relationships with the main characters.
i don't understand why people would want izuna or kagami as tobi? Lol

That is another thing with Kishimoto, antagonists always have connections with the protagonists. Izuna had no connections with the living protagonists, no parallelism with the Shonen main character (Naruto) or the others (Kakashi, Minato,etc.) no true character development (being mentioned and shown only in two or three panels) same goes for Shisui, Kagami, etc. Obito had all the qualities to parallel him with Naruto.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Quite the contrary it shows Kishimoto can be both subtle and obvious at times, he was counting on readers to look for an alternative to Tobi's identity instead of Obito because Tobi=Obito was "so obvious it had to be untrue" mentality that readers fell for, this is also true with those who deny the Sage=Uzumaki, some are merely repeating the mistakes of the past by denying the obvious Lol

Do you believe that Tobi = Obito is looking beneath the underneath? That quote is the reason why people look for further meaning beyond the obvious.

 

[Zol]

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I believed he was Obito up until this point. I like Kishi, I like the way he writes, I like the story, so don't misunderstand this next statement. These two pages were so unnecessarily misleading that it borders on cruel.

Obito: "Do you have ANY idea how long.." when in reality it was between 1-2 years. This statement was purposefully put out there by the writer to make us think that all of Tobi's knowledge came from personal experience (age, wisdom, etc.). It made us think that this was a man who had been waiting countless years to arrive at this single moment. Like it was the most important thing in the world to him...like he was say, actually Madara. If Kishi knew Tobi was going to be Obito at this point, then this statement was a complete ass-pull...sorry, that's just how it is.

I've heard the argument that, "Well imagine waiting a year after what Obito went through...that would seem like a long time." First of all, no, it still wouldn't justify the statement in the context we see it. The scope of this story connects the past to the present over a century (even further if you count the Sage and Juubi). "Do you have ANY idea how long..." in the context of this story would have to be longer than a year...the statement is just a hyperbole, plain and simple. Especially coupled with the Kyuubi's next statement.

"You...!" This indicated the Kyuubi recognized Tobi. And the only way that's possible is if Tobi were very old due to the fact the Kyuubi had been sealed in Kushina and Mito over the last 70 years +.

So this chapter by itself makes the Obito reveal a bit ridiculous. I actually liked that fact it was Obito, I always thought it would add more to the story than Izuna or any other of the candidates. But, if it were going to be Obito, then the statements I've shown were almost "unfair", if you will, to the reader..

Obito obviously said that line as his "Madara" role. It's just a lie, the same as when he stated he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, or how he was wounded badly in his battle with Hashirama.

And Kurama's "You..." could mean two things. He could - like everyone else - falsely believe Obito to be Madara. Or it could be meant in the way of "You...bastard/monster/etc.!"

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Obito obviously said that line as his "Madara" role. It's just a lie, the same as when he stated he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, or how he was wounded badly in his battle with Hashirama.

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And Kurama's "You..." could mean two things. He could - like everyone else - falsely believe Obito to be Madara. Or it could be meant in the way of "You...bastard/monster/etc.!"

To your first point:

Who? Who would he be lying too? A dying Kushina? That's the point. He was lying to US...the reader, directly. That is the point I'm trying to make. In order to make us believe Tobi wasn't Obito the author used devices that made no sense. I just felt like it could have been done a little more realistically. "Do you have ANY idea how long I've waited for this moment?" I mean break it down yourself, just look at the statement. You really think he was lying to Kushina at the end there? It would serve no purpose. Later Minato makes the assumption Tobi may be Madara without even being present during Tobi's statements to Kushina.

To your second point. I've heard the argument that the Kyuubi may have meant "You..!" as in "You...(insert insult)!" And again I have to disagree. If that was what was meant then the author would have simply written it in...but he didn't. He didn't say "Why You...!" or "You...bastard!" He said, "You..!". If that's not an indication of recognizing some one I don't know what is. Unless of course he would have just come right out and said "I know you!"

To your third point (second about the Kyuubi). Did he simply think Tobi was Madara? Kurama saw Tobi and recognized him by his chakra (not by his face for obvious reasons). Later, we see Kurama recognizes Madara's chakra when Madara attempts to summon him while fighting Naruto and Gaara's crew. So we can assume the Kyuubi recognizes Madara's chakra, right? So with that, Kishi now faces a problem.

We know of the Kyuubi's history with Madara from very early on in the story (Sasuke retrieval arc I believe). So the Kyuubi would obviously recognize Madara. So, as an author, if you're trying to make the reader believe Tobi is Madara then you have to be careful when they meet (as they did the day of Naruto's birth).

So you cant have the Kyuubi say:

"Madara...!" because its not Madara...the Kyuubi would be wrong and since he can sense a person's chakra this wouldn't make sense.

But at the same time, you can't have the Kyuubi not recognize Tobi...remember you're trying to make the audience believe Tobi is Madara.

So, how do you fix this problem. Well..

"You...!" its vague enough to make us think the Kyuubi recognized Tobi and not specific enough to outright give away Tobi's identity. In other words...it was a bit of an ass-pull..

 

[ImNoOne]

As we are fast approaching the first year anniversary of Tobi's reveal, I would like to point out something: Tobi being Obito was obvious from the start: one-eyed mask, appearing after Kakashi Gaiden, rearranging the letters of Tobi's name and adding an "o" making it Obito, Kamui power like Kakashi's MS which belonged to Obito, artificial half body (the side which got crushed by the boulder) etc. it was so obvious but why did others speculate Tobi to be Izuna, Shisui, Kagami or Sasuke from the future? It was so obvious that he was Obito from the start.

It's always easy to look down upon after the deed is done. I wasn't expecting this from you. Eitherway I did say that if the day came to be where Tobi would be revealed to be Obito I would publicly apologize for all the bashing I underwent about Tobi=Obito threads, and so I did and so did then everybody else who wanted to do it.

What's the point of bringing this back up? It's one of the lowest points on the plot.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Do you believe that Tobi = Obito is looking beneath the underneath? That quote is the reason why people look for further meaning beyond the obvious.

Well people misinterpreted it, and in the end they were lead astray, it is like the elephant in the room that others refused to acknowledge.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Well people misinterpreted it, and in the end they were lead astray, it is like the elephant in the room that others refused to acknowledge.

I would liken it to The Wizard of Oz. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.". If Kishimoto threw that comment in as a feint, then it would indicate a lack of confidence that he would be able to deceive the reader. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that there is more to the story. Your own theories speak to a Kishimoto that has researched thoroughly. Needing to mislead the reader by saying there is more, when in fact there isn't would be beneath the abilities of someone that well researched.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I would liken it to The Wizard of Oz. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.". If Kishimoto threw that comment in as a feint, then it would indicate a lack of confidence that he would be able to deceive the reader. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that there is more to the story. Your own theories speak to a Kishimoto that has researched thoroughly. Needing to mislead the reader by saying there is more, when in fact there isn't would be beneath the abilities of someone that well researched.

As Hannibal said" First Principles, Clarice. Simplicity.

 

[Zol]

To your first point:

Who? Who would he be lying too? A dying Kushina? That's the point. He was lying to US...the reader, directly. That is the point I'm trying to make. In order to make us believe Tobi wasn't Obito the author used devices that made no sense. I just felt like it could have been done a little more realistically. "Do you have ANY idea how long I've waited for this moment?" I mean break it down yourself, just look at the statement. You really think he was lying to Kushina at the end there? It would serve no purpose. Later Minato makes the assumption Tobi may be Madara without even being present during Tobi's statements to Kushina.

To your second point. I've heard the argument that the Kyuubi may have meant "You..!" as in "You...(insert insult)!" And again I have to disagree. If that was what was meant then the author would have simply written it in...but he didn't. He didn't say "Why You...!" or "You...bastard!" He said, "You..!". If that's not an indication of recognizing some one I don't know what is. Unless of course he would have just come right out and said "I know you!"

To your third point (second about the Kyuubi). Did he simply think Tobi was Madara? Kurama saw Tobi and recognized him by his chakra (not by his face for obvious reasons). Later, we see Kurama recognizes Madara's chakra when Madara attempts to summon him while fighting Naruto and Gaara's crew. So we can assume the Kyuubi recognizes Madara's chakra, right? So with that, Kishi now faces a problem.

We know of the Kyuubi's history with Madara from very early on in the story (Sasuke retrieval arc I believe). So the Kyuubi would obviously recognize Madara. So, as an author, if you're trying to make the reader believe Tobi is Madara then you have to be careful when they meet (as they did the day of Naruto's birth).

So you cant have the Kyuubi say:

"Madara...!" because its not Madara...the Kyuubi would be wrong and since he can sense a person's chakra this wouldn't make sense.

But at the same time, you can't have the Kyuubi not recognize Tobi...remember you're trying to make the audience believe Tobi is Madara.

So, how do you fix this problem. Well..

"You...!" its vague enough to make us think the Kyuubi recognized Tobi and not specific enough to outright give away Tobi's identity. In other words...it was a bit of an ass-pull..

Well, but "You...!" is used sometimes when the speaker means "You.....*insult*!". It's not necessary to completely spell it out, or put a "why" in front. Why else would people even get the idea of interpreting it as an insult? Simply because they have read/heard it in that context elesewhere...


About the second Point...Remember Kurama claimed Sasuke's chakra to be very similar to that of Madara. That probably means most Uchiha's of that class/evil intent etc. feel quite similar (well, sort of like they already look similar). And remember Obito impersonated Madara perfectly, down to his voice. Couple that with the fact that Madara was probably the only Uchiha that Kurama knew and certainly the only one who controlled him. So, it isn't that farfetched to think he could pass of as Madara to Kurama.

You are right about Obito lying to Kushina being pretty pointless, but that's about the same case when he lied to Konan, or even more, was acting as goofy Tobi in front of Zetsu even though Zetsu knew his identity from the start... Perhaps Obito adopted that other personalities for a bit...or he just really likes roleplaying^^

 

[MythicDonut]

Just one of those things. It seemed so obvious that I just thought it was a trap setup by Kishi to make us think it was Obito and I chose not to believe it.

 

[Zol]

I love how the main tenor is that Tobi being Obito was the obvious solution, and people only thought him to be someone else because they were creative and seeking the deeper mental challenge.


XD

Good one.


In reality, people supporting the idea of Tobi being Obito were seen as pretty much complete crackpots beyond reasoning. People didn't say "Oh, you think he's Obito, come on, that would be too easy, be creative!", rather "Are you f****** nuts?!" He can't be Obito!!! It's impossible!".=D