[Spoilers] Tobirama was Paranoid? No. Madara.

[Chibiusa]

Why do you guys keep saying it's Tobirama's paranoia that caused everything? Tobirama was not persecuting the Uchiha at the time so that's not an excuse for Madara's defection.

It was Madara's own paranoia that was the catalyst, not Tobirama's.

Madara was paranoid of the possibility of persecution even tho the village was at peace. Madara was the only one who felt this way since even his own clan turned against him and his paranoia, see:

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The rest of his clan felt safe enough in Konoha, he was the only one with this paranoia of the Uchiha being exterminated. Tobirama can't be blamed. He was tolerant of the Uchiha's but Madara still chose to leave anyway.

In conclusion, Tobirama was not as freakishly, overly paranoid of the Uchiha's loyalty as some of you make him out to be. He was only a realist who thought of the possibility but he was obviously working with them. It was Madara's own paranoia that caused everything. Now, tell me who is to blame here.

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Like, totally agreed.

 

[Sasuke..]

Ehh, then why did the Uchiha massacre happen again..? Were the clansmen to listen to Madara at this time, they would have never died.

 

[Chibiusa]

Ehh, then why did the Uchiha massacre happen again..? Were the clansmen to listen to Madara at this time, they would have never died.

The Uchiha massacred happened because Obito instigated the Kyuubi attack which directly implicated the Uchiha. That's irrelevant to the Uchiha in this time. These Uchiha were loyal to their village. Loyal enough to ostracize Madara. An event far off into the future (which btw is kinda Madara's doing) does not justify his paranoia.

 

[S A G E]

Totally agree, people should stop supporting an evil man like Madara. He became evil because he had always the potential to embrace the darkside.

 

[Twin Steps]

Yeah, totally agree with you. ^_^

 

[Chibiusa]

Totally agree, people should stop supporting an evil man like Madara. He became evil because he had always the potential to embrace the darkside.

Exactly! He literally turned his back on Hashi and walked out. There was no big event that caused his defection, he just did it

 

[Carlhens]

Madara felt like he was a boss on his own....

 

[Ōkami]

I agree with this.

 

[Sasuke..]

The Uchiha massacred happened because Obito instigated the Kyuubi attack which directly implicated the Uchiha. That's irrelevant to the Uchiha in this time. These Uchiha were loyal to their village. Loyal enough to ostracize Madara. An event far off into the future (which btw is kinda Madara's doing) does not justify his paranoia.

No. The uchiha massacre happened because they got opressed by Tobirama that made them plan a Coup d'état that might or might not have happened followed by the Kyuubi attack, which then led to the Leaf' elders ordering to massacre the clan, all that because Tobirama opressed them.

There you have it.

By the way in no way do i mean to say that Madara is a good man, i'm just saying that if they listened to him they would still be alive.

 

[naruttebayo]

yup , the coup de't uchiha planned
there absence at the time kyubi attack
and the people like obito and sasuke are proof , that tobirama was right

again we see another uchiha turning evil for no reason .... madara...
things can be sort out by talking , but uchiha seem to have a different appetite

 

[Chibiusa]

No. The uchiha massacre happened because they got opressed by Tobirama that made them plan a Coup d'état that might or might not have happened followed by the Kyuubi attack, which then led to the Leaf' elders ordering to massacre the clan, all that because Tobirama opressed them.

There you have it.

By the way in no way do i mean to say that Madara is a good man, i'm just saying that if they listened to him they would still be alive.

Tobirama was long dead. Hiruzen was Hokage and was willing to compromise with them. The Uchiha by that point were criminals and I believe the massacre to he warranted. But that's irrelevant.

This is the past. Madara could not see the future therefore all his fears were based on paranoia. This thread is only here to counter the ppl saying Tobirama was a paranoid jerk who wanted all Uchiha dead

 

[Gatsuuga]

Ehh, then why did the Uchiha massacre happen again..? Were the clansmen to listen to Madara at this time, they would have never died.

You do realise that Hiruzen was a teenager when Tobirama died? The massacre happened when hiruzen was like 70. The was a good 40-50 years after Tobirama died where the Uchiha were happy in Konoha.

 

[Sasuke..]

You do realise that Hiruzen was a teenager when Tobirama died? The massacre happened when hiruzen was like 70. The was a good 40-50 years after Tobirama died where the Uchiha were happy in Konoha.

It wouldn't even matter if it was 200 years later, had they listened they wouldn't have been exterminated.

 

[Yatori]

Agree with OP .

 

[hamer34]

Ehh, then why did the Uchiha massacre happen again..? Were the clansmen to listen to Madara at this time, they would have never died.

It's like being paranoid of death and then saying i told you so when u die, you can't do that
Mostly because you're dead

 

[Booty Sage1914]

Exactly! He literally turned his back on Hashi and walked out. There was no big event that caused his defection, he just did it

Look at it as racial profiling. No matter how things actually were between Hashi and Madara, people gave Hashi all the credit. Has hi thought it would be great for Madara to be leader, no one trusted madara with the so called eyes of evil. If Madara couldn't be hokage no uchiha stood a chance and that's something Madara understood from the beginning. Also, Tobiramas views of the uchiha weren't his own, he never really talked too an uchiha before. He was raised to dislike them and stereotyped them himself just like others had done before him. If the village could have accepted madara for who he was none of this would have happened instead they just tolerated him and the uchiha because that was Hashi's will waiting for the chance to get rid of them. The Uchiha got segregated during the 2nd's term out of fear, and exterminated after the 4th died. Funny how the Uchiha were made to be like a police force when no village now has anything resembling a police force.

 

[Minagatachi]

>Tobirama pisses off Madara
>Madara comes back with Kyuubi and attacks Konoha
>Causes Konoha to grow wary of the Uchiha
>Uchiha are forced to outskirts of Konoha by Tobirama
>Tobirama persecutes Uchiha
>Uchiha plan coup because they feel oppressed
>Itachi is ordered to wipe out the Uchiha
>Sasuke gets pissed and dedicates his life to kill Itachi
>Sasuke finds out Itachi is good and now wants to destroy Konoha

TL;dr Tobirama is the cause of this whole story.

The Uchiha were being oppressed well before Obito attacked Konoha, read a few chapters back when Hashirama got angry at Tobirama for persecuting the Uchiha.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

Tobirama is so insecure, he spoke like a true politician(bastard)......
Tobirama lacked the ability to BELIEVE its just that simple, and yeah he is to blame for Madara leaving the village, in his reign its like he's trying to doctrinize the idea the uchiha is evil and can't be trusted.....

 

[captainEO]

Nah, I disagree.

Madara is very important to the Uchiha. The younger ones adored him as Hashirama said in the earlier chapters that if he were to have been killed a revolt would start and there'd be no Konoha or peace. Madara was a very important part of the peace they formed. Not to mention that the ideals that were set in place in Konoha stemmed all the way back to when Hashi and Madara were kids and thought about them. Tobirama had nothing to do with that whatsoever.

This is a mutual handshake, Madara also founded the village yet people didn't wish to acknowledge that:

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Look at what Tobirama says here:

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"... you never know what they're going to do" PERSECUTION

In terms of hierarchy it went:
Hashirama, Madara and then Tobirama. They were the top dogs.
Tobirama didn't trust Uchiha. Madara knew that, and he knew about Tobirama's position in terms of power and influence.
The Uchiha were always going to be oppressed, 'cause there would never have been anyone to oppose Tobirama if both Madara and Hashirama were to disappear. Not to mention that most people knew the Senju were stronger and more people deferred to them.

Madara wasn't paranoid, he simply knew that the Uchiha were in a crappy spot.

Case in point: The Uchiha police force was formed WAY before Obito attacked Konoha

Imagine if it were Hashirama instead:
1. Tobirama had died, and he was left alone.
2. He knew Madara was stronger.
3. He knew the Uchiha were stronger, and likely outnumbered the Senju
4. He knew that Izuna disliked the Uchiha AND had prejudiced opinions of them
5. He knew that most people didn't trust him.

Where does that leave the Senju that he's meant to protect? Tobirama's dying wish?

WHAT? Madara's in the right, the Uchiha were always screwed

Tobirama is a butthoooooole.