Tobirama vs Edo Hokages

[KidGamer65]

Hmm, I've actually changed my mind. Because Hiruzen and Hashirama are there Tobirama probably loses. I stand by what I said though, not much point going into details :shrugs and Tobirama using Zombies that could give Kage level opponents bother, when someone as unstoppable as Hashirama revived in part one wouldn't even get by Sakura is enough for me to say, with confidence, Tobirama's ET isn't/shouldn't be beneath Oro's.

None of that matters when its already been stated that Tobirama's isn't as good as Orochimaru's.

-Pt 1. Edo Hashirama is only so weak compared to the likes of Part 2 characters because of the power scale difference from Part 1 to Part 2.

-Tobirama's zombies giving Kage level opponents trouble doesn't mean they were superior to Orochimaru's Edo Tensei. Tobirama created Gojo to be used with his Edo Zombies, most likely why it gave them trouble.

You can say it with confidence all you want, manga has stated the opposite.

But I never did assert Tobirama was superior to Oro based on him not being surprised on the improvements :? I only said it implied it, and this is the guy that proudly boasts he created the Jutsu and acknowledges that being brought back stronger was a possibility.

You stating that it implied it means that you are asserting so. Just because you didn't say it was a definite fact doesn't mean that you aren't asserting that. Even so, it doesn't even begin to imply that, especially since Tobirama stated what fueled his overconfidence.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Wrong. It boosts all physical stats. No reason to believe otherwise.

Fine, we still can't determine how much faster, which will make any relevant factor then it already was.

Never said that he doesn't know about Kurama's Chakra. He simply doesn't know about the Kurama Avatar itself, or its limits. Nothing implies that he does. Nothing at all. Saying he'll analyze it like Hiruzen did to Juubito makes no sense since he can't analyze what he can't see, and he hadn't seen the Avatar when he told Minato to get away. So again, you have no point here.

But common sense can be applied here that he does, as he fully knows about Buijuu, Jinjiruki's, and Perfect Jins capability. Regardless of how you think he never saw a chakra version of Kurama, Tobirama is not dumb to think who can and who cannot. Just like how he already past judgement that Juubito cant tank this attack.

KCM Naruto was burned while using the standard cloak. I'm talking about a much stronger cloak, so it doesn't even apply here.

his standard cloak were damaged with the other Buijuu's/jins standard attacks. If they were to level up to Buijuu Mode and do the same, the attack damage will still be as relevant.

Not to mention him not wanting Minato to get hit by the attack, doesn't mean that he won't tell him to get away.

Fair point, he was still caution of them taking damage, even for you to think Minato wouldn't at all.

The properties of the jutsu is what is different, the energy is all the same. At the end of the day, some attacks are weaker than others. Gojo is weaker than the Juubi's laser, so Minato tanks it. Its overall stronger, and it focuses that strength on a point more than Gojo does since Gojo is an explosion while the laser is a laser.

No matter how you cut it, Gojo is too weak to be a factor here.

The energy is not the same:

The bomb is a gradually expanding circular force that inflicts damage principally atmosphere-transmitted mechanical stress, the impact and penetration of pressure-driven projectiles, pressure damage, and explosion-generated effects, whilst a laser gun is an extreme focused penetrating energy 'projectile' weapon.

And adding the fact the that the explosion is continuous, reaching devastating damage, that can cover SS.

 

[KidGamer65]

But common sense can be applied here that he does, as he fully knows about Buijuu, Jinjiruki's, and Perfect Jins capability. Regardless of how you think he never saw a chakra version of Kurama, Tobirama is not dumb to think who can and who cannot. Just like how he already past judgement that Juubito cant tank this attack.

No. Common sense can be applied here, but to come to the conclusion that he has no idea what the Avatar is. No reason to believe he does. Him knowing about Bijuu, Jinchuuriki, and Perfect Jinchuuriki doesn't mean he knows the defensive stats of every single Bijuu, nor does it mean that he knew Minato had a CHAKRA AVATAR that he has no idea existed until the moment he saw it.

Nor does it even matter. The Avatar took a stronger attack.

his standard cloak were damaged with the other Buijuu's/jins standard attacks. If they were to level up to Buijuu Mode and do the same, the attack damage will still be as relevant.

Don't know where this logic came from, but its terrible. You'd have to prove the the defensive jump from Naruto's human cloak to his Bijuu Avatar is equal to the jump in offensive power from the V2 Jins attacks to their Bijuu Mode attacks. Since you can't prove that, you have no point here.

The energy is not the same:

The bomb is a gradually expanding circular force that inflicts damage principally atmosphere-transmitted mechanical stress, the impact and penetration of pressure-driven projectiles, pressure damage, and explosion-generated effects, whilst a laser gun is an extreme focused penetrating energy 'projectile' weapon.

Uh, yes, it is. Energy is Energy. You are only telling me the type of energy, and how its applied. It doesn't change the fact that its energy at the end of the day.

And adding the fact the that the explosion is continuous, reaching devastating damage, that can cover SS.

No where near SS's size. Don't know what you are looking at, but then again its irrelevant as I've seen nothing that leads me to believe its stronger than the Juubi's laser.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No. Common sense can be applied here, but to come to the conclusion that he has no idea what the Avatar is. No reason to believe he does. Him knowing about Bijuu, Jinchuuriki, and Perfect Jinchuuriki doesn't mean he knows the defensive stats of every single Bijuu, nor does it mean that he knew Minato had a CHAKRA AVATAR that he has no idea existed until the moment he saw it.

Nor does it even matter. The Avatar took a stronger attack.

I dont see how any other Buijuu matters when Kurama is for Kohoha's military firepower. That alone gives common sense that Tobirama is fully capable of Kurama's power, especially when your sister in law was its jinjiruki. Where in the manga was Tobirama surprise as you speak of?[

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Don't know where this logic came from, but its terrible. You'd have to prove the the defensive jump from Naruto's human cloak to his Bijuu Avatar is equal to the jump in offensive power from the V2 Jins attacks to their Bijuu Mode attacks. Since you can't prove that, you have no point here.

So that concludes that V2, which is a compressed chakra version of Buijuu, which can be limited by how much tail can be use, is suppose to be the same strength as a full Buijuu Mode. And that brings no proof?

Uh, yes, it is. Energy is Energy. You are only telling me the type of energy, and how its applied. It doesn't change the fact that its energy at the end of the day.

Yes it does that they can have the prioritizes of dealing different damage. Even then your proof is flawed since if you want me to believe is to state Juubi's energy made 0 damage to Kurama, when its focus was to penetrate.

No where near SS's size. Don't know what you are looking at, but then again its irrelevant as I've seen nothing that leads me to believe its stronger than the Juubi's laser.

That will be another discussion I dont feel like going through. Being weaker in power is irrelevant to me to as the focus is continuous. But this isn't going anywhere so you have your last reply.

 

[Kagustuchi]

If Tobirama revives him, then he won't have the Juubi, he'll just have Rinnegan, Mokuton, and EMS....so the Edo Hokage would god stomp these two.

-As described above, if Madara was revived, he'd pretty much be the exact same as he was when revived by Kabuto. Rinnegan, EMS, Mokuton and the inability to use the full power of his Rinnegan. He'd also lack Hashirama's Sage Mode.

-Hashirama solos Edo Madara and clones from Minato seal him away.

-BM Minato fodderizes Tobirama. Base Minato is already faster than Tobirama, BM Minato is much faster than he is, so in any battle of speed, Tobirama would get wrecked. Tobirama's strongest move is Gojo Kibakufuda, but Minato can easily tank that as the Kurama Avatar took the Juubi's Laser, and lost 6 tails, still functional and Minato himself was unharmed. A Bijuu Dama would atomize Tobirama, or he could just use the speed boost from BM to slap him around in CQC.

Not to mention I completely ignored the fact that Tobirama's Edo Tensei was terrible when it came to power.

They already fought in cannon and tied.

Any argument about his Edo Tensei form being weaker is invalid. Tobirama's statement implies that the difference is small enough to the point where its negligible. Hashirama loses the infinite chakra advantage as well.​

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[KidGamer65]

They already fought in cannon and tied.

Any argument about his Edo Tensei form being weaker is invalid. Tobirama's statement implies that the difference is small enough to the point where its negligible. Hashirama loses the infinite chakra advantage as well.​

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They fought in canon and Madara was bound and Hashirama was still mobile. The only issue was a permanent seal, so no. That is not a form in any way, shape, or form.

 

[KidGamer65]

I dont see how any other Buijuu matters when Kurama is for Kohoha's military firepower. That alone gives common sense that Tobirama is fully capable of Kurama's power, especially when your sister in law was its jinjiruki. Where in the manga was Tobirama surprise as you speak of?[

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Tobirama showed no surprise when

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. By your logic he's known Hagoromo all his life, lmao. Surprise isn't relevant. Him not being surprised doesn't mean he knew about it before.

The rest I don't care about, because its you trying to say that Tobirama knows about something he's never seen before, because of irrelevant details. Get the concrete proof.

So that concludes that V2, which is a compressed chakra version of Buijuu, which can be limited by how much tail can be use, is suppose to be the same strength as a full Buijuu Mode. And that brings no proof?

Bold is false. V2 isn't supposed to be as strong as a Full Bijuu, and no this isn't proof.

Yes it does that they can have the prioritizes of dealing different damage. Even then your proof is flawed since if you want me to believe is to state Juubi's energy made 0 damage to Kurama, when its focus was to penetrate.

Different types of damage doesn't change the fact its all the same energy. Kurama took the Juubi's laser. A weaker attack isn't going to destroy it. Its just that simple.

That will be another discussion I dont feel like going through. Being weaker in power is irrelevant to me to as the focus is continuous. But this isn't going anywhere so you have your last reply.

We've seen how long the explosions last. Overall its weaker.

 

[Kagustuchi]

They fought in canon and Madara was bound and Hashirama was still mobile. The only issue was a permanent seal, so no. That is not a form in any way, shape, or form.

While Hashirama had Madara bound by the Mokuryu, Hashirama was also incapacitated by the Outer Path stakes.

He even commented that he couldn't move or knead chakra.​

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[KidGamer65]

While Hashirama had Madara bound by the Mokuryu, Hashirama was also incapacitated by the Outer Path stakes.

He even commented that he couldn't move or knead chakra.​

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That was after Madara came back to life bound him with the jutsu. He couldn't knead chakra, but he could move after being stabbed.