ElectricClover
Leaf Village Regular 🍃
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
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- 742
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- 33
I think Hiruzen's battle against his predecessors is the most obvious example of power scaling in Naruto. Obviously considering old Hiruzen's abilities and what we know of the Senju bros now there is almost zero chance he could take them 2 on 1.
Again, it is merely said that Tobirama's et is incomplete. It could be that he could only summon one person. In that case, yes, Oro would have greatly improved et by making it so one could summon multiple edos. And summoning several Hokages is a feat that could be considered improved from whatever Tobirama had in any circumstance. They were weak because, like I mentioned, the battle that involved them was early in Part 1 and frankly they were much stronger than anything we'd seen before at that point. However, naturally, the characters got stronger as time went on. Now, Tobirama's water wall on dry land that was an incredible technique that made him worthy of being Hokage is casually used by Darui. And obviously Hashirama possessed a vast array of techniques more than he depicted in that battle. So it is clear that Tobirama summoning his brother now would entail a truly awesome force on the level of the current battlers, Naruto, Bee, Obito, etc.
Like you said, Minato referenced the Second's s/t. He can teleport, and therefore avoid the strikes of his opponents and certainly Tsunade's. That is not to say of course that they couldn't land a hit after some trickery, but Tobirama isn't stupid and so is not outsmarted easily. I'd say Kakashi might have the aptitude to do so, however. Of course Kakashi has kamui in this battle. But given that it takes a longer time for him to kamui things that are far away and Tobirama can teleport if he sees Kakashi doing so, coupled with the fact that almost every time Kakashi kamuis he does so in defense. In my opinion he'd most certainly have to do that here.
Gai is battling after Hirudora solely because he was reinvigorated by Kurama. Now though there is the possibility Tsunade might be able to revive him (though my guess would be that it would take a very long time as she's not a tailed beast). However, I am of the belief that there's no way Kakashi alone could hold off Tobirama. I just can't see Gai spamming Hirudorae (nice). And the chakra of the Senju is formidable if not almost sage level.
I actually believe that Gai would be on the lower end of the scale in terms of intelligence; just my opinion. Perhaps it's only been recently that he's developed into more of a comic role. In any case, Hirudora is less effective than you believe. I seem to remember it striking Kisame point blank, head-on, and leaving him only temporarily weakened, even still able to perform jutsu. Though I just cannot see Gai using his Hirudora (and most likely his only one) wisely, I don't really think Tobirama would be much worse for wear if he was hit by one, though it may cost him the battle considering his other opponents.
Oh, I wouldn't say water clones are fodder. And I don't think Zabuza's really match up to Tobirama's. Tobirama can not only fake out his enemies with the clones, they can perform water jutsus themselves and also, lest we forget, put their opponents in water prisons if they get to close. And they wouldn't really take too much of a chunk out of Tobirama's chakra, either, if he used them wisely. And though morning peacock would be effective against them that means Gai's used up in this battle. That'd probably be worth the amount of chakra spent on the clones anyway.
Tsunade trained Sakura in dodging techniques, okay. That's Sakura. Frankly, big deal. Kishimoto set that up because Sakura was fighting Sasori. Now there is extensive proof in the manga that Tsunade really can't dodge 'for shit.' Maybe because she's too slow, maybe because she knows she can heal anyway. Either way, she just doesn't evade strikes.
Yes, I suppose the Kakashi points are all correct; Tobirama would have the hardest time getting rid of him. But in any case Chouza said that Kakashi always hid and used a lightning clone to test the enemy, so, yes, the lightning clones would almost always be destroyed, at the price of knowledge for Kakashi, admittedly a powerful weapon.
I would not say that Gai's speed is massive and it certainly didn't help him against Kisame when Kisame flooded the field with water. Plus, I hate to keep bringing up the same point, but Tobirama can teleport.
Oh come on, you've gotta give me Kakashi's low stamina. Sure it's better now, but it's crap, everyone knows that. That's the thing that prevents him from being too effective in this battle, as he would if he could keep spamming kamui.
I would say the three of them are low Kage level, a distinction which has only come about because Tsunade and Mei are such weak Kages. Whereas the other Kages were all well into boss level in the past, now Darui could be considered 'low Kage level.' Tobirama is definitely well above them and considering his techniques possesses the upper hand in my opinion.
However, it is true that they are a very dangerous combination. While Tobirama can s/t we don't know if that's the same dimension that Kakashi abets the destruction of Obito by using against him. Kakashi is probably smart enough to trick Tobirama, his kamui and Gai's attacks could be replenished by Tsunade if they could work it out right, and she can heal them and Kakashi does have another dimension to hide his allies in (though probably not both at once). Tobirama's massive water jutsus would be tricky but I don't think he has the water bubble, so if they avoid his clones (and subsequent prisons) they can run and water and so survive. This is all if they are able to coordinate their attacks just right to overcome Tobirama. I concede that they'd win, say 6/10-- but-- if Tobirama can summon a fully operational, as it were, Hashirama, then I would give it to the brothers without a second thought.
