Tobirama or Itachi

[LuckyMan]

I've never seen him do anything to genjutsu... Or clones.
He made the clone jutsu actually, so it's probably very underdeveloped compared to modern ninja.

Or since he made it he knows exactly how it worked, as he demonstrated in the anime and theres nothing to suggest his clones are underdeveloped, especially when even his clones can use FTG.

 

[KingHashirama]

No, but itachi might have completely different ms abilities, and from what we've seen, tobirama can't fight them off very well at all.
I'm aware he can fight the uchiha and mangekyo, but itachi is a renowned genius uchiha who's ms abilities, apart from sasukes Amaterasu, are possibly 100% unique.

This just doesn't seem like a good match up for him.

But he doesn't. Itachi only has the basic MS techniques, nothing special. Only his Tsukuyomi i deadly.. but then again, Tobirama had a master Genjutsu user to learn from also, that had genjutsu surpassing the Uchiha =x.

 

[BlazeRelease]

Tobirama could probably break it without much effort. The only person we've seen that used on is Naruto, who's very weak in Genjutsu.

I agree he could break it, but I don't think he'll notice it.
That's the deadly part. 2 seconds and it's over. Maybe less.

 

[BlazeRelease]

But he doesn't. Itachi only has the basic MS techniques, nothing special. Only his Tsukuyomi i deadly.. but then again, Tobirama had a master Genjutsu user to learn from also, that had genjutsu surpassing the Uchiha =x.

We don't know what's basic, the only 2 to ever share a same attack (apart from susanoo which is just a rare occurrence) is Amaterasu, and tobirama hinted at kagutsuchi (which might not have even meant black flames, someone's flame control could have been a weaker version that just used normal flames, we don't know.)

My point is, we don't know specifically if tobirama can deal with itachi (especially genjutsu)
But it seems to me from what we do know, he can't.

 

[Tennis Robot]

Tobirama understands the Uchiha better than anyone. However, Itachi isn't like the vast majority of the Uchiha. idk man...I would say it's like 70/30 for Tobirama.

 

[Chie]

Tobirama beats Itachi with no more than mid difficulty-especially if he has edos at his disposal.

I realize that you're trolling, but @ bold:

I don't think the OP meant prep-time. Giving Tobirama an army of Edos he knows is the equivalent of giving Itachi a charged KA eye with a set command. It's pointless and not realistic.

That, and Orochimaru/Kabuto perfected Edo Tensei. We haven't ever seen Tobirama use it and he never even completely finished it. Orochimaru started using Edo Tensei by bringing back Tobirama/Hashirama at 30% in pt1 to fight Hiruzen. That's severely lacking. Tobirama never fully completed it since it had severe moral implications surrounding it, he forbid it with Hashirama's advice for a reason.

 

[BlazeRelease]

But he doesn't. Itachi only has the basic MS techniques, nothing special. Only his Tsukuyomi i deadly.. but then again, Tobirama had a master Genjutsu user to learn from also, that had genjutsu surpassing the Uchiha =x.

Are you referring to toka senju? Lol
And surpassing the uchihas genjutsu collectively is one thing, surpassing their ultimate genjutsu user is another.

But like I said, he doesn't have hype or fears to help him against genjutsu, especially itachis genjutsu.

 

[KingHashirama]

We don't know what's basic, the only 2 to ever share a same attack (apart from susanoo which is just a rare occurrence) is Amaterasu, and tobirama hinted at kagutsuchi (which might not have even meant black flames, someone's flame control could have been a weaker version that just used normal flames, we don't know.)

My point is, we don't know specifically if tobirama can deal with itachi (especially genjutsu)
But it seems to me from what we do know, he can't.

Kagutuschi is just the controlling of amaterasu, Izuna most likely had it.

And Tsukuyomi is a basic MS attack.

I think the more correct way to phrase what you are saying is, "We don't have the feats to say 100% that Tobirama can deal with Itachi".

However, i would like to to remind you... Tobirama can raise his chakra and destroy walls.. Itachi already acknowledged this concept of breaking genjutsu, when Naruto was trying it, but NAruto was too weak.

Are you referring to toka senju? Lol
Mans surpassing the uchihas genjutsu collectively is one thing, surpassing their ultimate genjutsu user is another.

But like I said, he doesn't have hype or fears to help him against genjutsu, especially itachis genjutsu.

@Bold, the hype part is where you are wrong. THere hasn't been a shinobi in the leaf that has even been on Tobirama's level, till NAruto and sasuke . And that isn't enough hype?

The mere fact he already has more knowledge on the sharingan than Itachi has shown, isn't enough hype?

The mere fact the breaks stuff just by raising chakra sin't enough hype?

How does Itachi even counter his speed?

 

[Chie]

But he doesn't. Itachi only has the basic MS techniques, nothing special. Only his Tsukuyomi i deadly.. but then again, Tobirama had a master Genjutsu user to learn from also, that had genjutsu surpassing the Uchiha =x.

@bold: Please don't exaggerate. Toka was a Senju woman proficient in genjutsu, she wasn't even Tobirama's master. She just fought on the Senju side and we don't even know their relation and how well they knew each other. Also, in those days Uchiha used genjutsu sparingly, they preferred more hands-on fighting. Like Madara.

Also, it's stated nowhere that her genjutsu was better than any single Uchiha's in the clan of that day, nor that she was even on the same level. Lol

 

[KingHashirama]

@bold: Please don't exaggerate. Toka was a Senju woman proficient in genjutsu, she wasn't even Tobirama's master. She just fought on the Senju side and we don't even know their relation and how well they knew each other. Also, in those days Uchiha used genjutsu sparingly, they preferred more hands-on fighting. Like Madara.

Also, it's stated nowhere that her genjutsu was better than any single Uchiha's in the clan of that day, nor that she was even on the same level. Lol

Toka Senju was a close friend of Hashirama's..... lollll

Anyone else from that era known for their skills in genjutsu? And she her ppowers were known throughout the world. lollll XD.

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[LuckyMan]

I realize that you're trolling, but @ bold:

I don't think the OP meant prep-time. Giving Tobirama an army of Edos he knows is the equivalent of giving Itachi a charged KA eye with a set command. It's pointless and not realistic.

That, and Orochimaru/Kabuto perfected Edo Tensei. We haven't ever seen Tobirama use it and he never even completely finished it. Orochimaru started using Edo Tensei by bringing back Tobirama/Hashirama at 30% in pt1 to fight Hiruzen. That's severely lacking. Tobirama never fully completed it since it had severe moral implications surrounding it, he forbid it with Hashirama's advice for a reason.

Tobirama's creation of edo was never meant to utilize the abilities of the dead like Orochimaru and Kabuto do. Its original purpose was to wipe the map clean, as Madara stated and proven by Tobirama for him creating the Goju Bombs technique to blow of the edo and everything in its vicinity.

 

[Chie]

Toka Senju was a close friend of Hashirama's..... lollll

Anyone else from that era known for their skills in genjutsu?

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I'm aware that she was close to Hashirama. She was shown in the front on a Senju panel in a manga chapter as well. However, that doesn't denote that she was Tobirama's "master" or that she trained him. Nothing of the sort. More like, she herself could deal with some genjutsu users.

The Uchiha clan is known for genjutsu. Just because some random female Senju we know nearly nothing about had some skill doesn't mean everyone else was utter garbage.

 

[Conspirator.]

I realize that you're trolling, but @ bold:

Except I am not "trolling".

I don't think the OP meant prep-time. Giving Tobirama an army of Edos he knows is the equivalent of giving Itachi a charged KA eye with a set command. It's pointless and not realistic.

No, giving Tobirama edos is realistic-given how shinobis from his era(Chiyo,Mu etc) all recognised it as HIS techique, which must mean he used it regularly. Madara also knew that the point of Edos was to wipe the map clean.(which is what Tobirama and only Tobirama used it for via his edo tensei bombs). And unlike KA, Tobirama can use Edo tensei repeatedly.

That, and Orochimaru/Kabuto perfected Edo Tensei. We haven't ever seen Tobirama use it and he never even completely finished it. Orochimaru started using Edo Tensei by bringing back Tobirama/Hashirama at 30% in pt1 to fight Hiruzen. That's severely lacking. Tobirama never fully completed it since it had severe moral implications surrounding it, he forbid it with Hashirama's advice for a reason.

It doesn't matter how strong Tobirama's edos themselves are. Why? Because he never used his edos as puppets the way Kabuto/Orochimaru do. He used his edos to blow up battlefields with Gojo. The point is, even if Tobirama's edos are 4 year old quadriplegics-they can still do damage.

 

[Inert Brian]

Itachi is the best genjutsu user....Izuna lacks feats.

 

[FleeOnSight]

We're talking about a guy that specializes in killing Uchiha. Tobirama low diff. Edo tensei explosion jutsu one shots.

 

[LuckyMan]

Itachi is the best genjutsu user....Izuna lacks feats.

His hype ranks him above Itachi though. He was stated to be on par with EMS Madara.

 

[Chie]

Tobirama's creation of edo was never meant to utilize the abilities of the dead like Orochimaru and Kabuto do. Its original purpose was to wipe the map clean, as Madara stated and proven by Tobirama for him creating the Goju Bombs technique to blow of the edo and everything in its vicinity.

I actually forgot about the Goju bombs. I was thinking of the way Kabuto/Orochimaru used them at first. If he's allotted prep time for Edo Tensei and uses that, then he definitely wins. And, only if he FTGs out of the area before they go off (which he would obviously).

I guess that Tobirama, Kabuto, and Orochimaru solo the Naruverse now. They're the only three characters that are allowed to pre-plan for vs fights and get techs ready for them now. Might as well get Konan to set up a paper bomb trap so that she can win against most of NV too. Since the other 3 get prep time for something like ET.

 

[Sage Moonblood]

It's nice to see you all using logic to debate and using well thought out answers.

Kudos

 

[KingHashirama]

I'm aware that she was close to Hashirama. She was shown in the front on a Senju panel in a manga chapter as well. However, that doesn't denote that she was Tobirama's "master" or that she trained him. Nothing of the sort. More like, she herself could deal with some genjutsu users.

The Uchiha clan is known for genjutsu. Just because some random female Senju we know nearly nothing about had some skill doesn't mean everyone else was utter garbage.

But noone stated she was his master. o-o

Uchiha clan is known for genjutsu? ok.... SENJU CLAN WAS KNOWN FOR THOUSAND SKILLS...... meaning ninjutsu/taijutsu/genjutsu/fuinjutsu/kenjutsu... lol XD

Who said everyone else was utter garbage? Just letting you know in the age of Madara uchiha and Hashirama senju, she was the known for her genjutsu prowess.

 

[Tennis Robot]

We're talking about a guy that specializes in killing Uchiha. Tobirama low diff. Edo tensei explosion jutsu one shots.

I think that Itachi has killed more Uchiha than Tobirama.