Tobirama>Minato
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~Ethereal~
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Believe in the Hype!
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Believe in the Hype!
Fourth Databook proof!!!
Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama. Ability in all Five Nature Alterations, Ability in all Hiden (clan techniques), Genjutsu, Ability in all Ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. His title of Professor is no joke, hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member
5 Elements - Not even his full power???
Since Hiruzen was revived at old age, his chakra and power should be as low as before but wait... Tobirama states that the Hokage have been revived "close to original power" this means Hiruzen was revived weaker then he was alive at old age yet he was able to produce the 5 Elements at such mastery that it was even capable of stalemating the Buddha Statue while the 5 Kage couldn't. Just imagine his Prime.
Hiruzen knows and could perform all non KKG Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals = The use of the Ino–Shika–Chō at will with Kage Bunshin
OP Summoning Monkey King Enma
The Third hokage's comrade in arms, the monkey king enma's transformation jutsu Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Kongou Nyoi-Bou is Sandaime's"weapon of choice", so to speak and with it in hand he's made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.
Also, when Enma is transformed into Diamond Shifting Staff, it is also possible that he can attack out of his own free will, his claws and fangs add an element of surprise and irregularity. Forged in the fire of battle, its at-will transformation-based attack and defense go beyond the scope of proficiency, to attain the realm of Shinobi "godhood".
-The main method of attack consists in strikes and thrusts that take advantage of its extensibility. The hardness of diamond translates into destructive power.
Heading:
自在に変幻する堅固なる獄！！
A solid prison that changes shape at will!!
After transforming himself into an adamantium staff, Enma clones himself in staff form then boxes the enemy into a lattice.
The prison wall with the toughness of adamantium cannot possibly be broken, and the captured enemy is left with nothing but the humility of defeat.
Durability Feats - Super Kage Bunshin???
Hiruzen has shown to have excellent durability feats at age 69 with his Kage Bunshin as one of his clones was stabbed by Hashirama with 4 Kunai in the chest yet did not disperse until Hiruzen was done with it. He was also able to hold Orochimaru's soul for an hour long despite being stabbed through the chest by the Sword of Kusangi.
Dangerous CQC
Intelligence "The Professor"
Further Hype and Testimonials
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Translation: Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama. Ability in all Five Nature Alterations, Ability in all Hiden (clan techniques), Genjutsu, Ability in all Ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. His title of Professor is no joke, hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member
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Since Hiruzen was revived at old age, his chakra and power should be as low as before but wait... Tobirama states that the Hokage have been revived "close to original power" this means Hiruzen was revived weaker then he was alive at old age yet he was able to produce the 5 Elements at such mastery that it was even capable of stalemating the Buddha Statue while the 5 Kage couldn't. Just imagine his Prime.
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Hiruzen knows and could perform all non KKG Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals = The use of the Ino–Shika–Chō at will with Kage Bunshin
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Broken Ninjutsu versatility
Hiruzen utilizing the Inuzuka Clan's ability of an enhanced sense of smell to catch the 2 Hokage in complete darkness.
Hidden Leaf Tech
Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough
Sarutobi Clan
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique
Izunaka Clan
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang
Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap
Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique
Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy
Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Uzumaki Clan
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Five Elements Unseal
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Hiruzen utilizing the Inuzuka Clan's ability of an enhanced sense of smell to catch the 2 Hokage in complete darkness.
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Hidden Leaf Tech
Bringer of Darkness, Great Clone Explosion
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough
Sarutobi Clan
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique
Izunaka Clan
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang
Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap
Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique
Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy
Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Uzumaki Clan
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Five Elements Unseal
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The Third hokage's comrade in arms, the monkey king enma's transformation jutsu Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Kongou Nyoi-Bou is Sandaime's"weapon of choice", so to speak and with it in hand he's made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.
Also, when Enma is transformed into Diamond Shifting Staff, it is also possible that he can attack out of his own free will, his claws and fangs add an element of surprise and irregularity. Forged in the fire of battle, its at-will transformation-based attack and defense go beyond the scope of proficiency, to attain the realm of Shinobi "godhood".
-The main method of attack consists in strikes and thrusts that take advantage of its extensibility. The hardness of diamond translates into destructive power.
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Heading:
自在に変幻する堅固なる獄！！
A solid prison that changes shape at will!!
After transforming himself into an adamantium staff, Enma clones himself in staff form then boxes the enemy into a lattice.
The prison wall with the toughness of adamantium cannot possibly be broken, and the captured enemy is left with nothing but the humility of defeat.
Durability Feats - Super Kage Bunshin???
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Hiruzen has shown to have excellent durability feats at age 69 with his Kage Bunshin as one of his clones was stabbed by Hashirama with 4 Kunai in the chest yet did not disperse until Hiruzen was done with it. He was also able to hold Orochimaru's soul for an hour long despite being stabbed through the chest by the Sword of Kusangi.
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Dangerous CQC
]Even past his Prime, Hiruzen had showed excellent Close Quarter Combat skills. Moments after sealing parts of his soul away to seal the Edo Hokage and exhausting his remaining Chakra on Kage Bunshin, he was still able to easily disarm Orochimaru from his Sword of Kusangi with great ease and catch him to prepare his sealing Jutsu. He was also able to easily break through the Shinju branches and save Naruto despite Tobirama and Minato unable to get through.
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Intelligence "The Professor"
Having been around the previous 3 Shinobi World War, Hiruzen's knowledge and experience in all forms of Shinobi combat are unparalleled. Although brief, we only get to see a glimpse of "The Professor"
One great example would include when Hiruzen combined the Reaper Death Seal with Kage Bunshin to try and seal multiple souls at once. This was a genius move because it would help delay the sealing of his own soul enough to go after Orochimaru's soul next.
The last time we see a glimpse of Hiruzen's intelligence was when he personally engages Obito so that nobody needs to put their lives at risk, taking advantage of the fact that he's already dead to analyse Obito's abilities. By observing Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls with his specialty, the Shuriken Kage Bunshin, he theorizes that they are similar to the Third Tsuchikage's kekkei tōta in that they are a combination of multiple nature transformations. He also postulates that the Truth-Seeking Balls have limits to the duration of their malleability, but his upper body is destroyed immediately after that. He was able to deduce the Truth-Seeking Balls, (a technique that is beyond Shinobi knowledge) in mere seconds after seeing it
One great example would include when Hiruzen combined the Reaper Death Seal with Kage Bunshin to try and seal multiple souls at once. This was a genius move because it would help delay the sealing of his own soul enough to go after Orochimaru's soul next.
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The last time we see a glimpse of Hiruzen's intelligence was when he personally engages Obito so that nobody needs to put their lives at risk, taking advantage of the fact that he's already dead to analyse Obito's abilities. By observing Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls with his specialty, the Shuriken Kage Bunshin, he theorizes that they are similar to the Third Tsuchikage's kekkei tōta in that they are a combination of multiple nature transformations. He also postulates that the Truth-Seeking Balls have limits to the duration of their malleability, but his upper body is destroyed immediately after that. He was able to deduce the Truth-Seeking Balls, (a technique that is beyond Shinobi knowledge) in mere seconds after seeing it
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Orochimaru admitting that he would be killed by a 59 year old Hiruzen.
Danzo in his dying moments admitting inferiority despite possessing Izanagi, Kotoamatsukami and Hashirama's DNA.
Kabuto, a spy who has spied on and knows all about the Shinobi countries states that an old Hiruzen was stronger then all the 5 Kage at the time. Just imagine his Prime.
Even with the entire SA and 5 Kage, Shikamaru states that only Hiruzen could contend with Guruguru at the time.
Considers himself to be the strongest in his group which also included Tobirama. Confident enough to take on the entire Kinkaku and survive.
Extra Databook Hype
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Danzo in his dying moments admitting inferiority despite possessing Izanagi, Kotoamatsukami and Hashirama's DNA.
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Kabuto, a spy who has spied on and knows all about the Shinobi countries states that an old Hiruzen was stronger then all the 5 Kage at the time. Just imagine his Prime.
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Even with the entire SA and 5 Kage, Shikamaru states that only Hiruzen could contend with Guruguru at the time.
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Considers himself to be the strongest in his group which also included Tobirama. Confident enough to take on the entire Kinkaku and survive.
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Extra Databook Hype
"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".
the Sandaime was the strongest.
Databook 1, Page 117
The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.
Databook 1, Page 119
"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.
DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:
Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.
"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:
Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.
He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure
the Sandaime was the strongest.
Databook 1, Page 117
The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.
Databook 1, Page 119
"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.
DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:
Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.
"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:
Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.
He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure
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Last edited:
Rikudou Tobi
Active member
Tobirama clearly beats him. Having a faster base shuushin speed is nothing to get crazy about, even kcm naruto reached that level. In the end of the day ftg speed is all the same speed just as much as any other space-time speed.
Tobirama has the lineage of yang, has way more chakra, and has way more jutsus than minato does.
I mean slashing and rasengan is the best you got?
Tobirama has the lineage of yang, has way more chakra, and has way more jutsus than minato does.
I mean slashing and rasengan is the best you got?
UnknownJin
Banned
UnknownJin
Banned
Can Tobirama beat Orange Masked Tobi?Tobirama clearly beats him. Having a faster base shuushin speed is nothing to get crazy about, even kcm naruto reached that level. In the end of the day ftg speed is all the same speed just as much as any other space-time speed.
Tobirama has the lineage of yang, has way more chakra, and has way more jutsus than minato does.
I mean slashing and rasengan is the best you got?
Let me tell you where you are wrong.
First, Tobirama addimtted two things:
- Minato better than him with FTG like 4 times.
- Minato fast at striking.
Second, Minato proved three thing:
- Minato faster than him.
- Minato with better reactions.
First Point \\ Minato better at FTG.
Yes, here he says that Minato is better than him but with Teleport since the feat was teleporting the Juubidama. Which means Tobirama can't teleport such size of chakra.
He also said he cant teleport the amount of people like Minato. You know this is sad because it is the reason he couldn't save himself and his crew from Gold and Silver Brothers. This can also mean that Tobirama cant spam his FTG like Minato, reason which made him defeat thousands of ninjas.
Tobirama also said he cant teleport with ease 2 jubidamas. Minato has only one arm, so he can't use the S/T barrier this time, he says he could manage only one.
And i believe there is an other feat.
Second Point \\ Minato strikes fast.
Here clearly Tobirama says he is fast. Not faster but Minato did it quick and Tobirama is surprised. I can say that Tobirama wouldn't done that.
Third Point \\ Minato faster.
Well there is a lot of evidence. Since Minato arriving first and doing a lot of things before the other Hokages arrive. Or the Databook being clear saying he is the fastest in History.
Fourth Point \\ Minato has better reactions.
Well Minato said it himself, you need reactions equivalent to your speed it order to fight and counterattack. If you can handle your speed then you have the reactions for it. Therefore reactions against speed lower than your speed.
But what can I say. Is that Tobirama lost half body with version 1. And Minato only lost an arm and backwards to version 2.
So yes, Minato showed better reactions since he could see Obito v2 attacks in a CQC combat and Tobirama couldnt't with version 1.
And there is more examples.
First, Tobirama addimtted two things:
- Minato better than him with FTG like 4 times.
- Minato fast at striking.
Second, Minato proved three thing:
- Minato faster than him.
- Minato with better reactions.
First Point \\ Minato better at FTG.
Yes, here he says that Minato is better than him but with Teleport since the feat was teleporting the Juubidama. Which means Tobirama can't teleport such size of chakra.
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He also said he cant teleport the amount of people like Minato. You know this is sad because it is the reason he couldn't save himself and his crew from Gold and Silver Brothers. This can also mean that Tobirama cant spam his FTG like Minato, reason which made him defeat thousands of ninjas.
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Tobirama also said he cant teleport with ease 2 jubidamas. Minato has only one arm, so he can't use the S/T barrier this time, he says he could manage only one.
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And i believe there is an other feat.
Second Point \\ Minato strikes fast.
Here clearly Tobirama says he is fast. Not faster but Minato did it quick and Tobirama is surprised. I can say that Tobirama wouldn't done that.
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Third Point \\ Minato faster.
Well there is a lot of evidence. Since Minato arriving first and doing a lot of things before the other Hokages arrive. Or the Databook being clear saying he is the fastest in History.
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Fourth Point \\ Minato has better reactions.
Well Minato said it himself, you need reactions equivalent to your speed it order to fight and counterattack. If you can handle your speed then you have the reactions for it. Therefore reactions against speed lower than your speed.
But what can I say. Is that Tobirama lost half body with version 1. And Minato only lost an arm and backwards to version 2.
So yes, Minato showed better reactions since he could see Obito v2 attacks in a CQC combat and Tobirama couldnt't with version 1.
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And there is more examples.
Rikudou Tobi
Active member
He said his shuushin is better than him, meaning footspeed. He's shown great reaction speed since the tobi fight. But overall Tobirama is way better. Space time ninjutsu is the same but in terms of versatility he beats minato in every category.
If he's uses only kamui like he did against Minato then he'll lose battle.
But if he uses his whole arsenal of Uchiha Justus(Uchiha flame/return of the Uchiha), yin yang release (izanagi/chakra blades), wood style wood sprigs, six path Justus (Gedo powers/curse mark pile) and etc....
Then no, I don't see him winning.
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Im Still Robin
Active member
Are you stupidly serious?
Boy do you know what Minato have teleported in his base and how many times?
BM is entirely irrelevant to FTG in itself..you people act like BM literally buffs everything even kunai lmao learn what the hell you're disagreeing on and if it's correct.