Tobirama Is Right, Hashirama Is Naive
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Alphaqindyas
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He obviously has had some good moments but when you get down to the bottom of it, he was full of hate. Yeah he stopped Hashirama from killing himself but why would hashi do that? Oh yeah! Cause madara told him to kill himself or his brother. If Tobirama had REALLY had it his way, Madara would've been dead before Konoha was even created. That's what it comes down to. Tobirama and Hashirama both saw (along with Madara) the the real side of the Uchiha clan. Tobirama was the only one who wanted to act. Simple as that.
Founding Fire Shadow
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I agree 100%, to do something unprecedented people must take risks, Tobirama was unwilling to set aside his bigotry/hate & risk himself or those he cherished for a greater good for all; which was peace, even Madara was willing to try, yet Tobirama was not, despite his acknowledgement of the Uchiha's backing of Hashirama over Madara, people want to try & sugar-coat or ignore it, but his beliefs were directly the reason Madara chose a different path & abandoned the village as Madara himself stated, furthermore his policies which stemmed from distrust, as Tobirama himself admitted; isolated the Uchiha & led to their revolt, on both ends Tobirama's bigotry in particular spurred both Madara & the Uchiha Clan to revolt which has directly led to the 4th Shinobi War.shodaimeicon:
Itachi has the most powerful MS techniques thus far, even surpassing what Madara has shown in his MS and though he lost and was forced to murder his clan because of the Village, He still considered himself a Shinobi of konoha and was filled with love for the village and his little brother.
Sounds like something Tobirama would say ^ and your wrong for reasons already explained.
You think Madara was acting this whole time? You think he lived out his childhood dream with hashirama and formed the village out of Hate? You think that even now he's in his edo state he wanks hashirama? Says he respects him? All of that was a bluff? You think his love for his brother was a front for sympathy? I guess you think that Madara was always evil; then you do not understand the character nor his motives.
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@Bold
Subjective statements, as some wouldn't consider Itachi's "the strongest"
Sasuke had love for his clan and family, Obito had love for Rin, Madara had love for his brother. Actually what Tobrima said was not a rumor. As seen in Sasuke vs Danzo, Sasuke showed us that the more hatred, the stronger the eyes are (in this case, his Sussano). Sasuke again proved this in his reuniting with old team seven, before he went blind, his Sussano took it's next form when he talked about destroying the leaf village as he was saying his hatred for it grew. Karin also proves this in Sasuke's fight with the Raikage when she talks about Sasuke's chakara becoming colder (we can simply assume that Sasuke MS abilities were increasing as he progression throughout the story was taking place.), so no it seems as though Tobrima's supposed theory was correct
Who cares about "some" when he was canonically deemed invincible with those techniques:
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No.
Sasuke had hate for Itachi and that is what motivated his action, now he knows the truth he's filled with regret [
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] , Just like Sasuke, Obito had hate for kakashi letting rin die and was motivated by that [
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] when he is told the truth of events, and gains some understanding like sasuke he will most likely have regrets as he is still unknown to the fact as why Kakashi killed rin.
Founding Fire Shadow
Member
He was also canonically deemed weaker than Jiraiya by his own admission, lets not get carried away here, Itachi was a great shinobi, easily among the strongest in the series, but he was not invincible nor was he the strongest, "every man has his weakness", Itachi's was stamina.shodaimeicon:
You are aware that he has the sage's weapon(s) right? In terms of his MS abilities (Tskuyomi, Amateratsu and Sussano), it is debatable that his are the most powerful.
What you said in the bold literally proved both my and Tobrima's statement. Whether he was full of regret of not, with his growing hatred, his Sussano and MS abilities became more powerful. When Obito saw Kakashi killing Rin, he awakened the Magenkyo which proves that the more hatred an Uchiha inherits, the more powerful their eyes become. We don't even know if Itachi had hate, so the validity of that defense is kinda null
PS: When I said family I wasn't talking about Itachi
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tobirama is a racist, *******, all the names in the book
and so are the dummies who support his discrimination.
Madara is evil now because of tobirama being a ****.
So now we know why madara turned.
YellowFlash1
Active member
Tobirama wasn't as naive as hashirama..
He knew that the Uchiha were unstable and knew that if they were to ever suffer a lose, it would potentially make them go insane, plus they would have incredible power, which.... Is never a good combination.
Tobirama was in the right.. Look at what history has shown us! The Uchiha clan were about to attack the village because they thought it was their right to be a bigger part of the village, because they believe he help found it which is nonsense, giving that Hashirama was the one that set everything in motion and even madara himself stated it was a dream and that Hashirama should face reality.
Madara is living prove of how arrogant the Uchiha are, they believe they must be on equal terms always... Tobirama was right to be skeptical.
He doesn't live in fairy land like Naruto & Hashirama were you just talk to your friend and make them listen, specially when their as crazy and Sasuke & Madara... Don't get me wrong, naruto and Hashirama and incredibly strong ninja that can look beyond destroying their friendship, although for people like Tobirama are just callous.
He knew that the Uchiha were unstable and knew that if they were to ever suffer a lose, it would potentially make them go insane, plus they would have incredible power, which.... Is never a good combination.
Tobirama was in the right.. Look at what history has shown us! The Uchiha clan were about to attack the village because they thought it was their right to be a bigger part of the village, because they believe he help found it which is nonsense, giving that Hashirama was the one that set everything in motion and even madara himself stated it was a dream and that Hashirama should face reality.
Madara is living prove of how arrogant the Uchiha are, they believe they must be on equal terms always... Tobirama was right to be skeptical.
He doesn't live in fairy land like Naruto & Hashirama were you just talk to your friend and make them listen, specially when their as crazy and Sasuke & Madara... Don't get me wrong, naruto and Hashirama and incredibly strong ninja that can look beyond destroying their friendship, although for people like Tobirama are just callous.
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Founding Fire Shadow
Member
I agree, Itachi like Shisui nullifies Tobirama's ideals on the Uchiha, however as far as his MS abilities being the strongest, I have to disagree.
1.) Sasuke's Blaze Release has been canonically deemed superior to his Amaterasu
2.) Kotoamatsukami has been canonically deemed superior to his Tsukuyomi.
3.) Itachi's Susano is seperated by possession not its power & even it pales in comparison to Madara's.
4.)Then there is Kamui, which is possibly the most OP MS power yet.
shodaimeicon:
Omnipotent
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How can you blame Hashirama's ideal for being naïve when it almost worked until Tobirama barged in with his hatred for the Uchihas?
The common ideal between Hashirama and Madara collapsed not because the ideal was unrealistic.
It collapsed because of people like Tobirama who refuse to embrace and trust the other side.
The common ideal between Hashirama and Madara collapsed not because the ideal was unrealistic.
It collapsed because of people like Tobirama who refuse to embrace and trust the other side.
Please, kindly just stop it...i already stated how Tobirama was the soul problem, but it came to light to today, but here you are...saying Tobirama was right and Hashirama naive when in fact the it was Tobirama himself who pushed Madara and the rest of the Uchiha to where they're at toady.
The Uchihas didn't do any action when Tobirama ordered the ANBU black ops to keep a check with the Uchihas.
Chapter 399 page 11.... ^Tobirama acted like a good person by giving the Uchihas special roles in the Village as a sight of good faith, but when in fact his really goal was to keep anyone else from following Madara's footsteps.
Chapter 399 page 12...^Then Tobirama ordered ANBU black ops to watch over the Uchihas and keep a close eye on them, but a number of Uchihas noticed what was going on and that they were being watched like dogs without a leash.
Every fact points out to Tobirama being the problem as why the Uchihas are this way, but you choose to ignore all facts and prove.
^Tobirama actions were so far that it came to point where the Uchihas would be exterminated.
If you still think Tobirama was right with this type of sickening actions and Hashirama was naive then you still don't know what's right and wrong in the first place...after you do that then come to define your definition of "right".
The Uchihas didn't do any action when Tobirama ordered the ANBU black ops to keep a check with the Uchihas.
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Chapter 399 page 11.... ^Tobirama acted like a good person by giving the Uchihas special roles in the Village as a sight of good faith, but when in fact his really goal was to keep anyone else from following Madara's footsteps.
You must be registered for see images
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Chapter 399 page 12...^Then Tobirama ordered ANBU black ops to watch over the Uchihas and keep a close eye on them, but a number of Uchihas noticed what was going on and that they were being watched like dogs without a leash.
Every fact points out to Tobirama being the problem as why the Uchihas are this way, but you choose to ignore all facts and prove.
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^Tobirama actions were so far that it came to point where the Uchihas would be exterminated.
If you still think Tobirama was right with this type of sickening actions and Hashirama was naive then you still don't know what's right and wrong in the first place...after you do that then come to define your definition of "right".
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first sage hokage
Active member
hashi knew madara had potinical thats why he didnt want to kill him and in the end he did become stronger with the rinnegan but he was to old,
