Tobirama Is Right, Hashirama Is Naive
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Alphaqindyas
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Tobirama may be ruthless and cruel against the Uchiha but, he is right. All of them are the same with the exception of Itachi and Shisui. Prime example is Obito who wasn't around for the massacre. He sees Rin die, now look at him. Hashirama may be the strongest in the shinobi world but Tobirama was right in saying the things he said.
@ Exaar:
This scan pretty much sums up what am trying to say:
@ Teno:
No.
Madara left the village, retured and fought hashirama then fled the scene, implanted the DNA, ect.
He wouldn't have left in the first place if it wasn't for tobirama potential to persecute the uchiha.
This scan pretty much sums up what am trying to say:
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@ Teno:
No.
Madara left the village, retured and fought hashirama then fled the scene, implanted the DNA, ect.
He wouldn't have left in the first place if it wasn't for tobirama potential to persecute the uchiha.
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Onion Soda
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Nope, Hashirama's conviction could only work while he is alive, after his death it'll cause a serious mess because he didn't really solved anything. Get straight man, what is Hashirama legacy? Will of fire? nobody knows what really is, hell Shikamaru even killed Hidan in the name of the Will of Fire.
Don't take me wrong, I like Hashirama ideals, but to work everyone must think as him and that wouldn't be democratic in the short run. Fact is Uchihas didn't even trust themselves, let alone the rest of the village, and Hashirama didn't solved that while he could.
Alphaqindyas
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It wasnt Tobiramas potential to persecute the Uchiha. It was the fact the without an Uchiha hokage, they would slowly lose their equality in the village as well.
The more i read this manga the more i see a mirror between Palestine and Israel, most people on both sides want peace but the higher ups are just too stubborn to work things out. Madara felt the animosity between him and tobirama and felt threatened. Hashirama was trying to work out a solution but Madara refused to listen. What can you do if someone refuses to listen?
If you kill the all human beings that would bring the infinite peace... That's the problem of "war for peace" concept; Hashirama trying to bring justice and peace without no one getting harmed; if Uchiha got killed; it would not be for the sake of peace, peace is something more than immobilizing one of the "sides".
I thought about this parallel too; but not brougt up for not causing unwanted s**tstorm; the more people start to build walls, the more problems and hostility increase.
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Narutoarchive101
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Don't compare tobirama with danzo yes they love the village but the way they go about solving the problem and getting answers are different danzo works from the shadows and resort to schemes while tobirama base on today's manga went for a more democratic decision will the village interest first........
yeah i agree to.
these uchiha psychos, you never know what they might do !!
they are just like time bombs just waiting to go off.
just look at obito, who the fvck tries to destroy the whole world just cuz a girl that he loved got killed.
these uchiha psychos, you never know what they might do !!
they are just like time bombs just waiting to go off.
just look at obito, who the fvck tries to destroy the whole world just cuz a girl that he loved got killed.
Wolfang714
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Hashirama and Hiruzen are a lot alike in many ways. As Madara said, everyone's trying to be servile (trying to please everyone). I actually would have done the same thing as Madara, while not going evil. I'm quite passive so if I see there would be no room for the Uchiha, I would have left the village too. But I wouldn't come back to destroy it.
Onion Soda
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Tobirama's untrust and Sharigan secondary effect aren't bigotry or prejudice, because bigotry is irrational. Sharigan emotion-based power up is a medical fact (if you deny it, see what happened to Obito). Tobirama's untrust is a reflection of Konoha's people, he was right about them choosing Hashirama.
Furthemore, why don't you talk also about Izuna? he is the beloved brother of Madara, and was in the same posture than Tobirama. Madara would listen him more than anyone else, even Hashirama.
Alphaqindyas
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Alright but they weren't. That's coming from an Uchiha. Tobirama made them head of the police force. What exterminated them, was planning a coup d'état.
Onion Soda
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Ignoring that ultimately Uchiha demise was his fault. He attacked the Hokage, his former friend TWICE even when Hashirama was trying to make a peace treaty. And more importantily, he created Tobi the one that used the kyubi to destroy konoha, while it was a well known fact that besides Hashirama only an Uchiha could control it. And he (tobi) also was the one that helped Itachi to wipe out his clan.
Nature Sage
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I would have to agree with General, simply because the points he stated are really feasible. Also, just because Danzo was not Tobirama's student, does not mean that he couldn't gather SOME of his ideals from him. For example, Tobirama designed the police force for what reason? It's all uchiha... Give a bad kid a good position and you can TRY to change them while having a CLOSER eye on them. This is one of the reasons, along with the after effect of the Nine-tails attack on why the uchiha caught wind of the situation later on down the road. The suspicion and blame from this event pointed to them, which made matters worse. It's pretty much like a domino effect. One action results into another which continues onward. Love that's unresolved and not strengthened can possibly breed hate due to lost which can breed more hatred. Which is what we all should know since almost all of us read the manga or watch the anime.
Peanuts. Don't sugar coat it; it's rather clear that Tobirama only sees the uchiha as a threat and enemy [
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] and made the same mistake the elder son of the sage also made, thinking that power was the key to peace [
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] [
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] but just ended up starting a chain reaction of war and violence. Tobirama is clearly biased and would go as low as to accept rumor as fact [
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] "The more they are full of hatred, the more their eyes are powerful". Itachi proved him wrong. He's in the spotlight and doesn't want to take the blame, making petty excuses. Madara knew Hashirama would fail to deal with him as he is too soft lacks dignity [
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] and allows tobirama to have his way.I'll have to give you the run down of the entire history. After Madara loses his brother for the sake of war against the Senju his hatred towards the Senju would've entered phase #1 as noted
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, hence why they remained conflicting clans even after both Hashirama and Madara became Leaders and should have still shared the same ideals in terms of peace. Further implication of this is that,
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. Apparently, Madara's ideals changed after his brothers death which is no surprise based on the Love he had for his last remaining brother. Also Izuna was a younger sibling which would increase the the psychological impact being that Madara was basically his care taker. As we follow, we see that Even after the entire clan had decided to accept the truce for the sake of peace
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. Irrefutable evidence that his ideals had completely changed. At the point of accepting the truce as their leader it's clear that
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. Hashirama's election only seemed biased to Madara and we know that he decided to
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. It is at that point he realized that he was no longer their leader but Hashirama had taken the Role, which introduced Phase #2 of his hate...
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. As the hatred settled it became unbearable and he
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. It's only natural that if you lose the two things you valued most in your life that thoughts of revenge would stirup. Hashirama is to blame for letting tobirama having his way, i can't help but see why Madara has taken such actions yet, not killed either Hashirama or his younger, foolish brother.
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Alphaqindyas
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As Tobirama knew that Hashirama wouldn't deal with Madara because he was too soft. They were a threat so he made the necessary moves. Who other than Itachi(who massacred the entire Uchiha clan) and Shisui(who also tried to talk down the uchiha). Sasuke and Madara are both full of hate and look at them. Both incredibly powerful. They're just an unstable, irrational clan. Tobiramas distrust for them is reasonable.
Madara wasn't a threat and that what you people keep getting wrong. You think he'd have helped Hashirama build the village, stopped him from killing himself, and done things like this if his intentions were evil? You must be joking.
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The potential problem was:
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It doesn't take much to see.