Tobi/ObitoTheories: What, why and how and then some

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  • I knew it was Obito/ I win you lose/ apologise now

    Votes: 102 24.8%
  • It is NOT over yet

    Votes: 172 41.7%
  • It is only part Obito. (Both of us were right)

    Votes: 97 23.5%
  • I am done. Just lurking.

    Votes: 41 10.0%

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

obito would have had to master incredible levels sealing jutsus and his exact age would be 15 attacking the villages. 2 years after his death it is verified check narutopedia. madara unlocked his eyes shortly before his death he said himself, so it is highly unlikely that he is obitos sensei. the writing is on the wall for it to be izuna using the body transfer jutsu. orochimaru was trying to copy the results izuna had with obitos body a secret he discovered while in akatuski. hate to be one of those guys but its the only logical option...
 

BlackMuffin

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

I think we still need to wait til next week (lets hope we don't get majorly trolled and it switches to Sasuke). The mystery of Tobi is not 100% solved yet by any means. Zetsu plays a major role in this and I think Tobi will be more than meets the eye (and not just superficially Obito).
As for the ages, well we will also get more clarity later... But either Kishi did become inconsistent, or has a very reasonable explanation... My guess is on the former -.- mainly cause there was more than one inconsistency in this chapter and I don't think he'll be giving thorough explanations except on the Tobi background.
 

BlackMuffin

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I loved when a character with a score of 1 in intelligence became the smartest character in a couple years.
Agreed. XD
Personally I find most of these explanations don't really help, probably because I am biased and still think it isn't 100% Obito. It just doesn't add up yet...:confused:
 

rayne

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hello everyone,

i am a newbie to this forum. i came up with some speculation. i thought if obito is born half senju and half uchiha. alot of stuff would make alot of sense. in the 599 flash back we didn't see obito's parents. so that might be clue no. 1 . obito pretty much have same characteristic as naruto, clumsy, full of guts, and suck in taijutsu.

if it's true he is half senju and half uchiha. obito probably has the potential to be the next so6p. so i figure madara is probably keeping track of him and want to lure him over. so when obito is buried beneath the rock. madara right away located him and try to repair him with some zetsu parts. which is very close to his own dna. of course madara probably fills obito with some ideas about the perfect society and only he can do it. as to why he didn't awaken his rinnegan. i figure madara probably use rinne tensai, and it somehow cost the rinnegan. :kakashi:
 

Kiiszame

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Lol how anticlimactic. I always knew it was obitos BODY still not sure if it's really obitos himself. Although the transfer of bodies is really making sense to me.
 

daybros

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I have read many posts regarding Tobi's identity and whether he really is Obito or somebody controlling Obito, many times Izuna Uchiha's name has been taken and etc. Well, here is my theory:-

We all know that Madara Uchiha respects Hashirama a lot, even though Madara considered him as his foremost enemy. At that time (when Madara and Izuna both had MS and Konoha was formed by Senju and Uchiha clans) it was pretty obvious that there would be a clash between Madara, leader of Uchiha clan and Hashirama, leader of Senju. It is possible, that Madara and Izuna knew at that time that if this clash was to take place, it would be risky business since Madara did not have a sure-shot victory, but neither did Hashirama.

However, the concern over Uchiha's victory over Senju was even more compromised when Madara lost his eyesight by overusing MS. Here, there are two theories put forward by Kishi (he must have just one, but the two are told from different perspectives):

1) Madara forcefully took away Izuna's eyes to get EMS. (as claimed by Itachi)
2) Izuna willigly sacrificed his eyes for the sake of the clan. (as claimed by Tobi)

We are still not sure whether case-1 or 2 is true. Let us assume case 2 is true, since my theory depends on this.

Basically, when Madara lost his eyesight, both's concern regarding their clan's future increased. They knew their chances at beating Senju were slim, especially with Hashirama around. However, that wouldn't be a problem in the future when Hashirama would have been dead. So, they decided to have a 'backup plan' in case Madara was defeated by Hashirama.

1) Izuna gave his eyes to Madara,

2) Madara got EMS,

3) Izuna's death was faked (with Madara's EMS and extremely strong genjutsu like tsukuyomi, it wouldn't have been tough),

4) Madara lost at the Valley of the End but managed to get Hashirama's cells and shortly after awakening rinnegan Madara died,

5) Izuna got his hands on them cells and rinnegan, developed Zetsu, became first tobi by using Madara's EMS and Rinnegan to do all that stuff that made Kisame believe he is madara, blah blah blah.

6) Obito gets crushed under a pile of rocks, gives one sharingan to Kakashi but is saved by Izuna 'Tobi'.

7) Izuna teaches him everything, including how to gain Mangekyou Sharingan and uses Hashirama's cells to heal him (similar to Zetsu's sticky white material). Izuna is also brain-washing Obito here, but is not very successful.

NOTE: Here, Obito might have had a major growth spurt because of Hashirama's cells, hence could be physically tall enough to be the man who fought Minato.

8) Izuna finds Nagato, gives him rinnegan.

9) RIN DIES, maybe providing the emotional trauma needed for MS (he couldn't save Rin because of some reason and it is known he had strong emotional attachment towards Rin. this may also be the reason why Obito resents Kakashi, as Kakashi had promised that he would take care of Rin). He has obtained the current 'Tobi' mindset and decides to end the misery of the world, blah blah blah.

10) Izuna is satisfied that 'Tobi' will carry on his plan, gives all his chakra/powers/knowledge/legacy/(whatever-you-think-is-cool-to-pass-on) to 'Tobi' and handles him the responsibility and leaves the world. R.I.P. Izuna. Maybe, he might have just put his soul into Obito and he is somewhere in Obito's conscious/sub-conscious, kinda like when Naruto meets Kurama in his sub-conscious.

11) Attack on Konoha by 'Tobi', who is both Izuna and Obito in one body (Obito a vessel for Izuna's and his own soul???). Thus, Kurama noticed the eyes of 'Tobi' as that of Madara (Izuna took Madara's EMS, they both look like twins) and 'Tobi' also had Obito's MS, allowing him to use Kamui while fighting Minato.

12) Naruto gets Kurama sealed in him, Uchiha tragedy, Sasuke's quest for revenge...

13) Tobi revealed.

I also found it customary to answer all those questions.

How come he survived?
- Izuna saved him.

Was it the head injury which made him go Tobi?
- No. It was partly brain-washing from Izuna, but mainly Rin's death.

How come he thought he had a claim over Nagato's eye?
-Izuna gave the rinnegan to Nagato, hence he did actually have a claim.

When did he had that growth spurt and MS awakenned?
-Growth spurt-> Hashirama's cells.
MS-> Rin's death.

Is it only the body of Obito?
- Nah. Here, I would also like to explain another part of my theory. Suppose Izuna only leaves his powers with Obito. Even then, the theory would remain true to the points. Also, look at Tobi here not as a name, but as a title, like Hokage. Kishi doesn't want to name a person Tobi, he wants to name the idea Tobi. That is why we have so many so-called 'loopholes' which is actually a way of Kishi's telling us that Tobi does not refer to one man, but one idea, and could be actually a combination of many different people who thought the same way and had the same goal. Just a thought.
 

Hitoshi

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

WOW! Why is everyone getting so pissed?! First and foremost, you people who are mad that Tobi is Obito need to relax. It is a good thing Tobi is Obito because it raises more questions, prolongs the manga, and makes the reader question what is a real. That is the mark of a good storyteller.

Why would Tobi be Izuna? Why would Tobi be some mystery shinobi never introduced so late into the series. Everyone that matters in the series has been introduced already. Tobi is Obito, so let's just deal with it.

Everyone who is making up their own Naruto facts out of disbelief that Tobi is Obito... just STOP! Read the databooks, go to Naruto wikia and read up on the characters. The site is made by the community, but it is pretty accurate. Obito "died" at age 13. The Fox attacked a year later. Obito would have been 14. Naruto is currently 16. Since the fox attacked 16 years ago, Obito would be 30, same age as Kakashi. Read the Databooks and do the math. 16+14=30; 30-16=14; 30-14=16. Not that hard, people. 16 is Naruto's age; 14 is the age Obito was or would have been if he lived when the fox attacked; 30 is the age Obito currently is 16 years (NARUTO's AGE) after the fox attack.

And why are people complaining about plotholes? There are no plotholes with Tobi being Obito. Kishi just hasn't had the chance to explain how Tobi is Obito yet. Give the man a chance to explain (WAIT FOR THE NEXT CHAPTERS).

I can't believe so many people are taking Tobi's unmasking so hard. Give Kishi a chance to explain how Tobi is Obito before making up false facts.

Theories are well and good, that is what Kishi wants his readers to do. He wants everyone to be thinking. Making up false facts is not well and good.
One it would make sense for tobi to be izuna why because he know all about the uchiha period knows about madara fight he was on same level as madara as they both unlocked their ms and the whole thing about unlocking the ems he would know as he gave his eyes to madara two would fit the plot-holes that obito created such as him being able to fight the 4th at 14 teen him giving nagato the rinnegan him controlling the mizukage him controlling the nine tails it makes perfect sense that it would be izuna but to go and say hey its obito just made a shit ton of plot-holes in there and if your to blind to see that then just facepalm yourself because there are plenty of plot-holes i suggest you reread the manga and seriously u think itachi would kill the entire uchiha clan with obito come on lol
 

pilyop

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Anybody notice the panels with Minato and one panel of a power line with what appears to be transformer but may actually be a scroll. Two panels of Minato with his special FTG kunai, another of Minato and Hiruzen in front of two oversized televisions connected to one another. Causes me to recall how when Akatsuki commune, it comes across as poor television reception. Also causes me to notice Tobito's war fan looks like a big antenna. Clues? Trollbait? Who knows?
Keen. I seldom pay attention to these things, thanks for noticing.

You are suggesting FTL communication and time travel jutsu, aye?

I think those over-sized tv's where just monitors(old-fashioned) because of the Chuunin exam. Obito came late because he helped an old lady, for which he earned a candy and a sermon from Kakashi. Hiruzen is telling Minato that he is to be the leader of this team.

Kakashi was the first to pass the exam. The trees, the leaves and the electric post/powerline(it looked ordinary to me, not a huge scroll) where just there to indicate passage of time while Obito tirelessly train to catch-up with Kakashi. Then finally, Obito passed the exam. A confidence boost that made him decide to give Rin flowers, then Rin told him Kakashi's promotion to Jounin and that they should bring him a present. (A heart breaker)

Minato's gift was the FTG Kunai.
Rin's gift was some special medical supplies.
Obito's gift was his sharingan.
 
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pilyop

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So, everything is one big lie? Like an elaborate Izanami? Well, that makes more sense than where the manga appears to be going, so +rep.

/****************************************************************************/
Edit: Sorry, but I haven't read every post in this thread, but what is the currently accepted explanation for how Obito could summon the Kyuubi during the Konoha attack?

Kurama was sealed throughout the duration of Obito's life, so when was the contract made (the one that Minato nullified)?
Elaborate Izanami, time travel jutsu, Nagato being the bastard son of Madara and Mito Uzumaki, Zetsu turning out to be the revived Izuna--- all these are just fan-fiction, you can choose which one to believe.

As has been posted numerous times, this is just a manga released weekly so I would not expect well-developed characters or consistency. Errors are inevitable of course.
 
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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Let's just say that Kishi had already draw Obito behind 'Tobi'. Let's agree to wait for the reasons. I think Obito had a real deal or reasons to act as Madara. Eventhough there so much plotholes in recent chapters, just wait.

Some of disturbing facts:

- Obito would never had master the Kamui when he tried to kill infant Naruto, moreover in even battle with the Minato
- Obito would be beast to control third mizukage at that state
- Obito was at the same age with Kakashi, so why he did grow faster than anyone else?

I could think one and only theory: at some time and some place, Obito took Madara's role (the one who did the first two facts stated by me above), to form Akatsuki while the 'real' unknown Madara left for something greater plans. IDK. Just my two cents. Somebody mentioned Orochimaru? The antagonist so far who still shrouded in mystery.

GRRRR, Kishi'd better have a good explanation for these! Or else! :p
 

Paintachi

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Let's just say that Kishi had already draw Obito behind 'Tobi'. Let's agree to wait for the reasons. I think Obito had a real deal or reasons to act as Madara. Eventhough there so much plotholes in recent chapters, just wait.

Some of disturbing facts:

- Obito would never had master the Kamui when he tried to kill infant Naruto, moreover in even battle with the Minato
- Obito would be beast to control third mizukage at that state
- Obito was at the same age with Kakashi, so why he did grow faster than anyone else?

I could think one and only theory: at some time and some place, Obito took Madara's role (the one who did the first two facts stated by me above), to form Akatsuki while the 'real' unknown Madara left for something greater plans. IDK. Just my two cents. Somebody mentioned Orochimaru? The antagonist so far who still shrouded in mystery.

GRRRR, Kishi'd better have a good explanation for these! Or else! :p
yep i agree without powerups he couldn even take on kakashi on that age.
 

GenKiDama

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

you're just in denial kiddo... The Obito theory was the one that made the most sence, it does not mean there was only one Tobi...

Don't worry, Kishi will explain everything soon enough, till then, Obito theory bashers should just get this simple fact through their Brains: It's Obito's Eye, Obito's body (except propably the hand and leg) and Obito's consiousness, propably tricked or something, but it's definitelly in there...
you gotta be kidding. how is it the one that makes the most sense, IT MAKES NO SENSE:crazy:
 

ANBU Sai

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

hey BTW i just sign up today so im new , sign up so i can write

didn't he lose his arm not once but twice? so if he gots it back, does that mean he gots a bit of zetsu in him, maybe even all of zetsu in him, i thought zetsu is known for making himself turn into other people if a corpse is left ,as all i know obito body was left there and zetsu got a hold of it?
 

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

you gotta be kidding. how is it the one that makes the most sense, IT MAKES NO SENSE:crazy:
Cuz he is the one and only uchiha except of sasuke, itachi and madara we really know much about. Even personality, and characteristics. We even know more about him then Shisui, and thats a reason why it makes most sense of all for kishi to go with someone we already know...we know him that good, that we won't expect him to do so, cuz many people could not understand his motives, and that why obito fits so good. He really gives us the most question how a character like him could flip 180° upside down. So why to go with someone we did not really know much about? Its mor climatic to bring up obito here.
Also u have to understand Kishis concept, he is not writing a mystery manga for u guys, its a "shounen" battle manga, mostly they go for 13 to 16 year old audience and for sure his editor, also agreed with this. I mean manga changes over the time, u cannot tell me he knew what will happen from the very beginning of writing naruto. Maybe at first he just thought about making tobi into obito, then he changed his mind, and changed it again...u can't read kishis mind, he is just makin it how he thinks it seems to "feel" right and not how it seems the most freakin crazy manga. People have to deal with his disicion, i mean this whole manga did not build on tobi, tobi is just ony mystery he baught up, and thats it...if he wants him to be tenten now, he sure will make him into her, even if it seems stupid. Its about feeling the manga not looking for the best option, as if he cares what people think is not correct, he is just following his way like naruto does as a shinobi accept this or quit reading naruto!
 
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pilyop

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Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

To the OP:

What a brilliant explanation! I almost cried! Your use of the terms "there's no evidence..." and "we have little information..." in your explanation is simply fantastic!

I love how you explained Minato and Tobito are not on same level when in fact Minato used his FTG level 2 just to gain speed against Tobito. Excellent thinking!

I also love how you explained Madara gave Nagato his Rinnegan when Madara clearly has his Rinnegan when he was revived. Superb reasoning!

Your "turning to evil" explanation was also great, as if Kishi as a writer does not care about character development. Kudos to you!

You are also right in that Obito is not dead, in fact, when his body was crushed by the boulders and gave his eye to kakashi, he and his Teammates had a picnic, then they left him for enemies to discover the secrets of an uchiha body. In fact, Obito just lifted them afterwards and went ahead to form Akatsuki, according to an interview with Kishi.

Finally, your last argument was perfect with the use of "why the hell not". Indeed, Madara knew about Edo Tensei and was able to break it. Tobito on the other hand asked Kabuto to tell him the secrets of Edo Tensei. So you are very right in that Everything Madara knew, Obito knew, and your explanation is 110% correct.

What a very intelligent person you are!
 

abister90

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Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

There is no plotholes. Kishi just hasn't explained everything yet. You think there are plotholes because you think you know everything already. Like I said, give Kishi a chance to explain what's going on. If he forgets anything in his future explaination of Obito/Tobi, then it would be a plothole. Until then, just wait and see what he comes up with next. Simpe as that.
 
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