Tobi/ObitoTheories: What, why and how and then some

[killer mookai]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Ok :

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Also I have a quote for you by Itachi:

"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts ... their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"

lmfao i love this dude i totally agree with his whole thread and that quote its funny cuz i used to say it could never be obito but look who it is like come on all these characters that you want it to be had little to no shine in the series plus all this speculation about the time line show me a link with the exact time of these plot holes cuz i see none all this talk about how old obito was or where he got his training

one we don't know when madra died he could have died right b4 or after any even kishi chooses cuz known of you know when


two how did he get so good so fast well ummm you see how tough madara is right??? he got trained by him simple explanation kishi could use


three how did he control the mizukage well kishi will explain when and where he met each member of the akatsuki and who he met first so nagato kisame zetsu and itachi are the only ones who really matter (who knows all the others could have played a role as well kishi will explain if so) kishi will explain it all next chap or the ones to come...


my point is that non of you anti-obito dude cant bring solid evidence that show plot holes on it being tobi interviews are shit and bringing up time line plot wholes by saying"well from wha i know this happened then and that happened here" well ****ing show me i watched all of naruto and read all mangas and obito being tobi seems the most obvious and most logical






so please someone tell where this stupid idea of plot holes is coming from cuz a;; will be explained regardless of ho it is

 

[joe256]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

The anime is almost exactly the same as the manga so ur argument is invalid.

 

[rai shado]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

After the 3 legendary sanins fought Hanzo, the 2nd ninja war ended. Jiraya stayed to train nagato, yahiko, and konan. At this time we would be right to assume they were very young, since the 2nd war didn't last very long, and nagatos parents were killed during it.

So Nagato is at least 6 years older than Kakashi, since kakashi was born as the 3rd war started, which was also the war, where Sakumo did the mission, where he valued his comrades over the mission, and later comitted suicide.

Assuming Obito and Kakashi was born at the same year, this means nagato had the rinnengan before Obito was even born. This means Madara was dead before Obito was even born, since Madara died as he awakened the rinnengan. This means Obito and Madara had no direct contact, whatsoever. Kishi said Tobi and Madara knew eachother. Fact is Tobi cannot be Obito, even if the last chapter said so.

Now I'm not mad if it's Obito, but then Kishi shouldn't have said in an interview that tobi and madara knew eachother. Maybe he just trolled us, I have no idea, but still annoys me. Hopefully he didn't, and we will find out tobi isn't obito in his state of mind.

First of all, Obito and Kakashi graduated at the same time, yet Kakashi was six and Obito was 9. (Naruto wikia, which used the databooks as a source)

Second, we don't know when Madara died, just that it was a little after he awakened the Rinnegan.

 

[joe256]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

Naruto wiki is fake genius, can be edited by anyone who is so inclined to do so just like normal wiki.

 

[joe256]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

First of all, Obito and Kakashi graduated at the same time, yet Kakashi was six and Obito was 9. (Naruto wikia, which used the databooks as a source)

Second, we don't know when Madara died, just that it was a little after he awakened the Rinnegan.

Even if Obito was 15 he wouldn't fit the timeline

 

[Koha]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Smh. Counter my post... Then I'll find what you say to be credible. Smh time isn't working out to Kishi's favor. Not In the least...

 

[rai shado]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

The anime is almost exactly the same as the manga so ur argument is invalid.

Except for the shit fillers, which is my problem with it. The anime made it possible for Kurama to fully regenerate his chakra while he can't in the manga, so screw off. The anime confuses people unneccesarily.

 

[rai shado]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

Naruto wiki is fake genius, can be edited by anyone who is so inclined to do so just like normal wiki.

Okay, you know that the wiki has editors who actually do fact checking. Its true that it can be edited by anyone, yet there are people who check the facts and fix it, so who's the genius now you dumbass.

 

[Ryu sannin]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Or... not. Possibilities still open.

Ok, so here are MY BELIEFS in regard to the whole Tobi id theories (I will quote myself from other threads).

Why he is Tobi, but is not Tobi and could be Izuna.

100% agree. +rep

 

[joe256]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

Okay, you know that the wiki has editors who actually do fact checking. Its true that it can be edited by anyone, yet there are people who check the facts and fix it, so who's the genius now you dumbass.

That must be why they wont let u use it as a valid source in college moron.
It's riddled than more wholes than this new plot in Naruto. LOL

 

[lilshell43]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Horrible thread. Lmao

 

[killerman82]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Finally someone with a brain +rep

 

[saw2097]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

Tobi is Obito. You are in denial. He dedicated an entire chapter to just his unmasking. Give Kishi a chance to explain, I am sure it will all make perfect sense once we hear Obito's story.

 

[theresurrection]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I see people just don't want to burst out of the delusion that Tobi is someone else than Obito. Well this is to help you face your denial, Tobi is Obito and here's a few of your claimed "plotholes" debunked.


"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.

"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.

"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?

"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side.

"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".

"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder?

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.

... if you got any more ideas bring them in, getting bored now.

EDIT: Here's some more

Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.

I have always been a cynic about the "tobito" theorists. When I read 599 at first I thought "Well shyyiiiitttt I was wrong. But Kishi's got some 'splainin to doooo!" Then I looked into the timeline stuff with tobi and compared to obito's life and realized it was most likely all off. I did play the devil's advocate to myself and thought of the exact same things you did, but I still think it could go either way as you're valid explanation still seems unlikely, which I've now learned doesn't matter to Kishi. I'm still leaning towards there being something else involved with tobi's new identity, but wouldn't be surprised and can see the validity of your side. I do not agree, however, with your explanation of "Madara was talking about Zetsu, not Tobi as his accomplice." I believe he was definitely referring to Tobi, still doesn't disprove anything, it just means there's another possible plothole for you to jump, and it's easily jumpable.

I do give kudos to you, though, because you're the first non idiot to post support for Tobito. I'm impressed you only had one possible problem in you're theory that's not that relevant anyway, because with so many references and flashbacks ALL OVER THE GODDAM PLACE IN THIS MANGA, plotholes and ignorance towards minor info tidbits everyone (including kishi sometimes) always overlook and forget about are RAMPANT. The Naruto series contradicts itself too many times for kishi or any theorist's imagination to fix. Small ex: in old regular naruto the byakugan is said (by Kakashi) to have given birth to sharingan at some point, yet the sharingan is supposed to be the "eye" that So6p's son inherited. Sure you can find "what if this happened though." It gets redundant if you have to create some "theory" or "possibility" every time something doesn't make sense. SOMETHING has turn out to be LOGICAL at some point in the series. Btw, reread the manga if you can manage to find the free time, you'll see what I mean about the contradictions.

I don't know how edits work or nothin cuz I'm new, but I just read NarutoVsGoku's rebuttal, and he convinced me that my initial suspicions were correct. The proof about Kakashi's age is the thing I needed. I always thought that was his approximate age, but twas an assumption, so I took OP's word for it that the approximation leaves for leniency on the "Tobito" timeline. I was obviously wrong now, OP i judged you right the first time, you should reconsider, there's something else in play here, and Kishi will explain it if this manga holds any value on its continued rep and increasingly questionable prestige. There's a shit ton of plot twists and the structure of this manga is destabilizing altogether, which is something that can be traced even to the beginning of the Shippuden series and picked up with the death of Itachi. So in summary: NarutoVsGoku...... what this guy said.

 

[Chatte]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

100% agree. +rep

Thank you!

 

[Uchihas with Big Guns]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Your thread is "turrble" as sir Charles would say

Also u forget minato wasn't unscathed he took minor damage to his leg and tobi was on even footing with him as minato himself expressed

 

[heymrkevq]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Obito WAS 14 during the attack of konoha! How can u say he was not??? What evidence do u need other than he was the same age as kakashi!! I'm not mad that tobi is obito..but I rather wait for kishi's explaination than to see u defend such a poor proof of bs!

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

kishi > you

 

[~Dream~]

People are still going at it.

 

[HokageTobiramaXx]

Re: "tobi" is not obito

We all know tobi now, but earlier in the manga, we just saw him as some funky dude who didn't care, I personally think we didn't notice him at all until he was revealed to have a sharingan and a supposed identity of Madara...

Things we know about him (Timeline wise)-

1. He was at the battle of Kanabi bridge and had taken either Obito's- Sharingan, or his whole body. He could also potentially have been Obito.

2/3. Tobi was the one who attacked the village and had taken control of the Nine tailed fox. His level of skill is about the same as Uchiha Madara's to know how without losing control of it.. At this point he had already had Obito's sharingan.

2/3. He had controlled the 4th Mizukage it seems somewhere between this period and when Naruto's Training with Jiraiya had ended.. OR before he even attacked the village. It is known he probably had control of him till he killed him, and released the 3 Tails into a lake for capture.

4. He is known to have helped Itachi in the Uchiha Massacre for as of now, unknown reasons.

5. He hangs back when Sasuke defeats Deidara (presumably to test his powers) and is shown
and thought to be a fodder.

6. Is revealed to have a sharingan in high right eye socket... then proceeds to corrupt Sasuke while giving him "The Truth about Itachi" and completely change his path. It seems Itachi also believed that Tobi was Madara. First time we were given an idea about his supposed identity...H

7. Tobi Continues to use Sasuke and test's his powers...they go to kage summit and troll the whole place. Tobi declares war and identifies his goal.
Then while Sasuke is killing Danzo, he makes - indirectly at that-Sasuke decide to attack his own colleague, Karin and dispose of her after.

8. For unknown reasons, goes to Naruto and gives him "The Truth about Itachi". Intervenes when Kakashi/Naruto find Sasuke, first time we are somehow puzzled as to why Kakashi's Kamui isn't effective on him.

9. Tobi want's the Rinnengan and claims it to be "his eyes to begin with", get's the rinnengan and prepares for battle while making a somewhat risky "forced" alliance with Kabuto by an unknown blackmail Edo Tensei...

10. Tobi comes out with Gedo Mazo to get the 9 tails chakra.. unknown purpose for this either as we believe he needs to collect all the Tailed Beasts to create the 10 tails.

11. Edo Madara is summoned... the "sixth coffin" was Madara? That means Tobi cannot be Madara. Naruto runs into him... and Tobi Claims to be "no one"

12. As battle rages on between Both Madara and the Kages we are enlightened on some never before known facts... Madara didn't die when he faught Hashirama, Madara has the Rinnengan, he hates Senju... Tobi is however fighting Naruto and begins to show little (not very noticeable) signs of fear... He thought it was his sweat when it was actually the rain and felt uneasy for periods within the battle..
13. As battle continues, we find out Kakashi's Kamui dimension and his Space time Ninjutsu dimension are the same... Eventually, Naruto (one of his clones) are sent to the dimension while Tobi is about to get hit by a Bijjuu bomb. Tobi dodges the bomb, but is hit by Naruto's Rasengan Square in the face. Kakashi was believing it was his friend Obito from his squad, and when they see his face they confirm that it looks like Obito...

I understand It's not right to post the so called "Tobi theories" out of the official thread, but I'm not theorizing, I'm thinking broadly...

Possibilities of Identity from these facts...

1. Obito- I didn't believe it at first, but after a VERY, VERY long thought today, I realized that if Madara (or any senior Uchiha) had saved Obito from under the Rock, they could have corrupted him similarly as to how Sasuke had been corrupted by Tobi. This would negate any of the sympathetic feelings that Obito may have had towards the village, and his colleague Kakashi. This would change him as a person completely..

It would almost be like "Sasuke's destiny from the past"... as maybe he was the one granted to "Guide Sasuke into the future"...

What doesn't add up are all the "what If's" and the "Why's"... and "how's" but 599 does not confirm tobi to be Obito, it however does establish that Guy Sensei and Kakashi believe it's Obito. He's old enough/young enough to be Obito by looks as he doesn't look ver older or younger than Guy Sensei, or any of the other people in that graduating class.. we Haven't seen Kakashi's face so we can't really compare Kakashi with them...

What doesn't add up-

- How he was able to control the Mizukage with his sharingan seeing he had only 1 at that point..

-How he met Itachi, and knew a lot about him...

Of course, Madara or the person who saved him could have told him History from the Uchiha Clan Including the deepest secrets and why Obito lives for...



2. Izuna- Would explain motive, age, history, knowledge a lot more. The reason that Nagato's eyes are "his" are because they are Madara's Rinnengan.. Madara was using his brothers eyes to get the EMS.. and Tobi wanted to get them back to their "rightful owner"... That would also explain his connection with Madara with ease, and he could have been the one who had "taken Obito's Body" similarly to Orochimaru's "forbidden jutsu" (with no KNOWN before users).

The more realistic out of the "possibilities" , explains his hatred towards his clan, the village, and his knowledge...

3. Kagami Uchiha- Could be Obito's father, could be Madara's son, who the hell knows- all of these theories about family seem to bug me... so I would call BS on most of them since he was in the Second Hokage's squad.

4. Shisui Uchiha- got both his eyes taken out, gave one to Itachi Danzo stole the other one... but this is where it get's important...

He had one of the best Genjutsu's which ould freely control your opponent.

It might not be important here, but in one of the next one's it might...

5. Shisui Uchiha OR Obito Uchiha's brother-

I don't know but from my knowledge Brothers seems to be the only ones who could obtain the MS which leads to the EMS by taking the brothers eye and the Rinnengan from Senju DNA being implemented into the equation by unknown means.. it would explain a lot, maybe hate, who know's... this could also mean that Shisui is Obito's brother since Shisui is the only known Uchiha to have the MS other than brothers... If he however is Shisui's brother, his ability to control the 4th Mizukage is pointed out right there... brothers, similar abilities, and maybe it's the reason Tobi wanted Shisui's eye's so much...

That's it for now, we could discuss this more, but the point of the thread is that...

Tobi, is indeed a master of deception, he claimed to be Madara, other's thought he was Madara as well until we had obtained revelational information from Edo Madara and His connection with Kakashi/Obito/Uchiha is still so far...

Unknown...


Is he Obito, is he Shisui, could he be Izuna, Kagami, maybe even a Senju or Uzumaki with his knowledge of sealing jutsu? We won't know for sure since they think he's Obito, but we don't know if he's Obito. However from the latest Issue, it's apparent that the right side of his body has been deformed by a serious amount of damage. It could be as stated.. Obito's body, or obito himself if that would be the case. He has explainable connections with Nagato/Madara at this point so Kishi better get his shit straight soon... :

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Tobi might not be obito, but we still CAN be obito.