Tobi/ObitoTheories: What, why and how and then some

[Yo pappy]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Last page in bottom left corner pretty much sealed the deal if you ask me. The only explanation that I can think of for the whole Minato/Kurama thing is if that was Zetsu instead because as we all know he can copy people perfectly. The guy is a goddamn Ditto.

 

[Honord Sage]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Accept that which you can't change or insanity will follow. Kishi has revealed His truth,it's His work,not you're. You can't change it.

 

[Chatte]

Re: Best explanation of why Tobi = Obito; share it!

Ok, so here are MY BELIEFS in regard to the whole Tobi id theories (I will quote myself from other threads).

Why he is Tobi, but is not Tobi and could be Izuna.

What my questions/remarks are:

1. Why the indirect hate towards the whole Senju clan that Tobi has shown unless being a very old character?

2. Why Kishi would write the few sentences as this: "Obito?" If it would've been a 100% sure it would've been a full stop or a exclamation mark?

Question mark is used in connection with an 100% uncomplete information, it means there is a missing data there.

If it would've been a full stop it would've represented an undenied piece of evidence. Still Kishi used a question mark meaning the evidence is not 100% accurate/missing data.

3. As well as the phrase construction "It has been confirmed: his name is Obito!"

There Kishi confirms things, it gives us the information that the name is Obito, not the whole person. If it would've been a 100% certain information that Tobi is Obito as a whole, it wouldn't have been necessary for Kishi to add an explanatory note, yet he did it to bring an explanatory note about the name being Obito.

So until isn't 100% sure that Tobi is Obito, until Tobi stated himself, yes, I am Tobi, even though it's a 0.01% chances of being someone else, I am doubting this as it still leaves open possibilities.

It would have been logical for Kishi to mislead to add all those details that took to Obito in order to mess with our minds.

My guess is that it is his body, but there is someone else in there, meaning the counsciousness/soul of another person.

Or it is his consciousness but another body very similar to Tobi's.

True that you were very close.
You were actually very accurate on the indicative details that would make us believing that actually, yes, Tobi is Obito or the timeline of the events having some connection with the timeline of the events of Obito's ones.

He could even play with our mind making Tobi to state that he was Obito which again would be an 100% that he would be Obito. But we know that Kishi made this character to be a bit of a lier. What if in a singular panel, later on, when he would be by himself or with Zetsu/Madara, he will state something like "I told them I am Obito in order to play with their minds?" or something very similar to that. Wouldn't that be a second mind-f*ck (excuse my language) given to us by Kishi?

So until Kishimoto comes with an undeniable proof that he is indeed Obito, that still leaves open possibilities, as I've stated before.

What if is indeed his mind and body, but actually somewhere in the back there is God knows what whose using Tobi's counsciousness with a jutsu or something like that? What if it is his body that gave a full access to his memories but someone else is there. Like in Queen of the Damned movie (a vampire one) where when you bit someone and had his blood you had full access to his memories. Body includes the brain, the brain stores memories.

The perfect match to play with someone's mind.

Also, something to note, that rumor who was viral these days on the internet would pretty much fit the whole scenario of Tobi = Obito but is not actually Obito, is Izuna.

Because if you remember, it was said that it was indeed, Izuna BUT he will bring a lot of suffer thus implying the fact that looking like Obito will mind-blow Kakashi and everyone else who once knew Obito.

Also that was supposed to be an unleaked information by someone close to Kishimoto that instantly would blow-away the whole impact on the fanbase. But, Kishi as being smart (hope he is because of not... I don't know what to say U_U) made us once again fall into astonishment, as we move our beliefs regarding the rumor.

Than, he comes again later on (still have to see when) and show us Tobi as being Izuna and once again we will be mind-blown. So he got the impact he wanted in the first place EVEN THOUGH the information was leaked.

Nonetheless, we have to wait.

Yes, he had been exposed, but why do I have the feeling that he wanted to be exposed? He is portrayed as a character who wants to play with people's mind and use undeniable true facts twisted to his own advantage.

And here we have to take into consideration the whole Sasuke story.
Indeed, he told Sasuke what happened to Itachi but he did it that way, that would suit his preferences.

Same things could happen with Kakashi as well. Using undeniable facts to his own benefit although they differ in perspective.

If it's not Obito and is Izuna, the whole information he got after the timeline of his events would be easily explained thanks to Zetsu. But to explain Obito's timeline events with what happens now, is a lot harder.

The expose thing I was reffering about him wanted to be exposed when he adressed to Kakashi/Gai.
That would be from where his mind-twisting plan starts.

 

[Armathyx]

Obito : All plotholes explained

I see people just don't want to burst out of the delusion that Tobi is someone else than Obito. Well this is to help you face your denial, Tobi is Obito and here's a few of your claimed "plotholes" debunked.


"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.

"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.

"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?

"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side.

"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".

"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder?

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.

... if you got any more ideas bring them in, getting bored now.

EDIT: Here's some more

Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.

 

[coolcomfort]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

wrong!!

jiraya trained minato after nagato !
that means nagato is much older than minato !
how can obito have given rinnegan to nagato!
minato was obitos sensei!!!!

 

[Mejkl3]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Finnaly someone with brain U_U +rep

 

[Chatte]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Or... not. Possibilities still open.

Ok, so here are MY BELIEFS in regard to the whole Tobi id theories (I will quote myself from other threads).

Why he is Tobi, but is not Tobi and could be Izuna.

What my questions/remarks are:

1. Why the indirect hate towards the whole Senju clan that Tobi has shown unless being a very old character?

2. Why Kishi would write the few sentences as this: "Obito?" If it would've been a 100% sure it would've been a full stop or a exclamation mark?

Question mark is used in connection with an 100% uncomplete information, it means there is a missing data there.

If it would've been a full stop it would've represented an undenied piece of evidence. Still Kishi used a question mark meaning the evidence is not 100% accurate/missing data.

3. As well as the phrase construction "It has been confirmed: his name is Obito!"

There Kishi confirms things, it gives us the information that the name is Obito, not the whole person. If it would've been a 100% certain information that Tobi is Obito as a whole, it wouldn't have been necessary for Kishi to add an explanatory note, yet he did it to bring an explanatory note about the name being Obito.

So until isn't 100% sure that Tobi is Obito, until Tobi stated himself, yes, I am Tobi, even though it's a 0.01% chances of being someone else, I am doubting this as it still leaves open possibilities.

It would have been logical for Kishi to mislead to add all those details that took to Obito in order to mess with our minds.

My guess is that it is his body, but there is someone else in there, meaning the counsciousness/soul of another person.

Or it is his consciousness but another body very similar to Tobi's.

True that you were very close.
You were actually very accurate on the indicative details that would make us believing that actually, yes, Tobi is Obito or the timeline of the events having some connection with the timeline of the events of Obito's ones.

He could even play with our mind making Tobi to state that he was Obito which again would be an 100% that he would be Obito. But we know that Kishi made this character to be a bit of a lier. What if in a singular panel, later on, when he would be by himself or with Zetsu/Madara, he will state something like "I told them I am Obito in order to play with their minds?" or something very similar to that. Wouldn't that be a second mind-f*ck (excuse my language) given to us by Kishi?

So until Kishimoto comes with an undeniable proof that he is indeed Obito, that still leaves open possibilities, as I've stated before.

What if is indeed his mind and body, but actually somewhere in the back there is God knows what whose using Tobi's counsciousness with a jutsu or something like that? What if it is his body that gave a full access to his memories but someone else is there. Like in Queen of the Damned movie (a vampire one) where when you bit someone and had his blood you had full access to his memories. Body includes the brain, the brain stores memories.

The perfect match to play with someone's mind.

Also, something to note, that rumor who was viral these days on the internet would pretty much fit the whole scenario of Tobi = Obito but is not actually Obito, is Izuna.

Because if you remember, it was said that it was indeed, Izuna BUT he will bring a lot of suffer thus implying the fact that looking like Obito will mind-blow Kakashi and everyone else who once knew Obito.

Also that was supposed to be an unleaked information by someone close to Kishimoto that instantly would blow-away the whole impact on the fanbase. But, Kishi as being smart (hope he is because of not... I don't know what to say U_U) made us once again fall into astonishment, as we move our beliefs regarding the rumor.

Than, he comes again later on (still have to see when) and show us Tobi as being Izuna and once again we will be mind-blown. So he got the impact he wanted in the first place EVEN THOUGH the information was leaked.

Nonetheless, we have to wait.

Yes, he had been exposed, but why do I have the feeling that he wanted to be exposed? He is portrayed as a character who wants to play with people's mind and use undeniable true facts twisted to his own advantage.

And here we have to take into consideration the whole Sasuke story.
Indeed, he told Sasuke what happened to Itachi but he did it that way, that would suit his preferences.

Same things could happen with Kakashi as well. Using undeniable facts to his own benefit although they differ in perspective.

If it's not Obito and is Izuna, the whole information he got after the timeline of his events would be easily explained thanks to Zetsu. But to explain Obito's timeline events with what happens now, is a lot harder.

The expose thing I was reffering about him wanted to be exposed when he adressed to Kakashi/Gai.
That would be from where his mind-twisting plan starts.

 

[Chatte]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Accept that which you can't change or insanity will follow. Kishi has revealed His truth,it's His work,not you're. You can't change it.

Still how can you explain the particular skills of grammar used in this manga that clearly leaves possibilities open?

 

[Knights Saotome]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

As the title says,I think that Tobi can't be Obito,because there are too many plot holes.

First of all,Tobi was controlling the mizukage,when Obito wasn't even born or was very little.(You might say that the one controlling the mizukage was Madara,which may be true).

Let's say that Obito was saved by Zetsu and trained by Madara,that still doesn't explain how he got so powerful,knew everything and learned about Kurama and how to control it.And if I remember corectly,he said when he was taking out Kurama from Kushina that he waited a long time for this.How is this possible when he was like 14?And his voice changed so much after just a year.A year before he was a little kid that could be beaten by Rin,and after a year he went toe-to-toe with Minato,the fourth hokage. also forgot to say, dont you think its fair to say that the 4th muizekage and the 4th hokage can exist in the same time period? seems like what people should think first, you know due to the 4

So,in my opinion,someone uses Obito's body and controlles it.What are your thoughts?

ok let me start by saying, voices dont mean anything due to the fact that kishi has no power over that. second the hieght thing is due to him being fused with a zetsu. third, the info he got about the nine tails and such? i doubt it was only a year, prolly like 3, and isnt there a well know hidden tablet with many serects on it that only ms users can read? plus i dont think madrara trained anyone, but rather pain did. or obtio learned from zetsu?
also may i remind you that all zetsu really dose and watch battle and gather intel. who knows how much intel he had before he even met obtio? as for the 4th kage controlling thing. he could have easily, we know the frist (a senju) could control tailed beast, not just the nine tails. so why cant uchia power work on other tailed beast? hello it can. for got to say, the 4th hokage and 4th Muizekage are most prolly from the same gen, due to the you know 4

 

[crysis04]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

there is more to tell and this guy well lie again, and again

 

[pinjo]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Chatte you're boring with that theory, stfu.

 

[Honord Sage]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Still how can you explain the particular skills of grammar used in this manga that clearly leaves possibilities open?

Kishi is the creator,He holes all the cards,only a fool spits into the wind.

 

[Armathyx]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

1. Why the indirect hate towards the whole Senju clan that Tobi has shown unless being a very old character?

Cause he got brainwashed by Zetsu, and was pretending to be Madara.

2. Why Kishi would write the few sentences as this: "Obito?" If it would've been a 100% sure it would've been a full stop or a exclamation mark?

Lol give me a break, because that were Gai and Kakashi's reaction, it's like "what the ****??", not "hey Obito nice to see you!".

There Kishi confirms things, it gives us the information that the name is Obito, not the whole person.

So he made an entire chapter about Obito's life, while also naming it Obito Uchiha, for no reason. You make a lot of sense, you know that? This is nonsense, if he were someone else Kishi would've started the chapter by showing his face, and leaving us hanging at the bigger mystery at the end.

Frankly you sound to me like you have little knowledge of how story writing works, you're making false assumptions out of question marks and the whole structure of the chapter itself.

 

[kibaclaw]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I read your first "explanation" and all it says is that you are ignorant and refusing to accept the timeline of events.

 

[Chachee]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

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[SeriouslyNO]

Re: Tobi really is Obito in mind and body!

I hope for that too, cause if not, I'm going to go to Japan and kick Kishi's ass, lol. Just an inside joke but we know he is capable of doing so...

 

[Chatte]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Kishi is the creator,He holes all the cards,only a fool spits into the wind.

Have you even read the proofs? :sy:

 

[Armathyx]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I read your first "explanation" and all it says is that you are ignorant and refusing to accept the timeline of events.

What timeline of events? You're the ignorant making up excuses and denying the fact Tobi is Obito when Kishi himself just bashed it on your face that it is the truth.

Just accept the manga or go read something else if it hurts you so much geez.

 

[Xentinel]

Re: Best explanation of why Tobi = Obito; share it!

I believe theres a connection between Tobi with Zetsu. Zetsu from his first appearance, he is such a mystery character. And I also believe that Zetsu has involved in saving Obito. And indeed, Zetsu must be created by someone. Either it was an experiment or some other things that is not revealed yet.

That someone who creates is likely to be either Madara, Orochimaru ... or maybe Someone else.
You see, there's must be a strong renowned badass ninja that appeared before the Obito's death and created this zetsu. But its still unlikely for Madara, being not well-verse in experimental project and knew to create such a masterpiece. Also if its orochimaru, then zetsu and orochimaru should have a really good relationship.

 

[Knights Saotome]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

All we know is what Kisame thinks he saw. The sharingan is boss at casting Genjutsu; it's completely possible Tobi simply fooled him like he fooled everyone else. Also, the only reason he held a candle to the 4th (who beat him anyway, btw) or ANYONE for that matter is because his Mangekyou ability is OP. He's basically invincible, and his jutsu is difficult to figure out (Kakashi really only got it because of his experience with his own jutsu). Kakashi and Gai were quite a bit older; and the 4th had become Hokage, got married, and had a kid in that time. It isn't ridiculous that Obito unlocked his MS in that time. Of COURSE there are puzzle pieces missing, but the real tragedy is if it turned out to be someone completely undeveloped. Just because people heard about some other Uchiha in a brief story in a few panels of the manga doesn't mean they are fleshed out enough to be the main villain. Obito and Kakashi's story is very well evolved.

one thing to point out though. in the frist fight with tobi, when he was acting like a super troll, kakashi knew right from the git it was one jutsu, thats the plothole everyone SHOULD be talking about, but you know how that gose. i also think that kakashi and obtio have a reserve naruto and sasuke bond, as in the naru char(obtio) never ever had ANYTHING in common with the sauke char(Kakashi) who grew to love and vaule his friends life and even mimic him, EX: always being late, and his whole, ninja who dont follow rules are sucm, but ninja who abonden their teamates(for want of a better word) are worse then sucm, thing from. i fully expect this bond to play out in the coming weeks, and to perhaps gaing hints on how sasuke and naruto are gonna end up.(hopfully not like pervy sage and oro, with the naru char dead and the sasuke char being revived for no reason.)edit: or like the frist and madrara where the same thing happens.....well let hope its not a pattern.