"To this day, there is no ninja existing who surpasses his power."

[KingHashirama]

And the databook says Temari can destroy the universe.

SHow me the translations please. So we can have a better discussion on it.

maybe sasuke and naruto have not surpassed him yet but, they will because they both alive.

It would be weird if Naruto doesn't surpass Hashi. I'm with you on that also.

But then, they are also in peace times.

 

[Made in Heaven]

To attain a power greater than someone for couple of minutes is not considered surpassing in the real world.

You can gain a power for a certain period of time superior to your opponent by taking implants, however, that does not mean you have surpassed your opponent.

Permanent vs Temporary.

And I'm trying to make sense out of Kishimoto's words, not make up my own stuff.

None of those powers were temporary Lol Madara died as the Juubi Jin, Naruto and Sasuke still have the powers they got from Hagoromo. Obito is the only one who lost the power he got.

 

[KingHashirama]

None of those powers were temporary Lol Madara died as the Juubi Jin, Naruto and Sasuke still have the powers they got from Hagoromo. Obito is the only one who lost the power he got.

Madara died with his body cut in half.... :erm:

So where do Naruto and Sasuke get their unlimited supply of Rikudou chakra?

 

[EliteKakashi]

Naruto doesn't even need the rikudou powers to be placed above Hashi. His perfect jin abilities(which are only amplified now from what he did in the war, considering he has 100% of Kurama in him rather than just 50%) combined with his SM(and summonings) would prove to be too much for Hashi.

 

[Xlad]

To attain a power greater than someone for couple of minutes is not considered surpassing in the real world.

You can gain a power for a certain period of time superior to your opponent by taking implants, however, that does not mean you have surpassed your opponent.

Permanent vs Temporary.

And I'm trying to make sense out of Kishimoto's words, not make up my own stuff.



He was noted to surpass Hashirama as a leader. (since he was leading the alliance and etc.)

But Tobirama never said he is better than Hashirama. (unlesss I overlooked the scan).

Naruto and Minato combined Rasengan didn't do jack to Juubito. Tobirama then saw Naruto combining Senjutsu with his Tailed Beast Bomb.

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Tobirama had the impression that Naruto will surpass Hashirama since this was the second time he impressed him. [

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[KingHashirama]

Naruto doesn't even need the rikudou powers to be placed above Hashi. His perfect jin abilities(which are only amplified now from what he did in the war, considering he has 100% of Kurama in him rather than just 50%) combined with his SM(and summonings) would prove to be too much for Hashi.

Considering the fact he was highly inferior to Hashirama before the Rikudou chakra...... don't see how it is giving him the edge.

With full Kurama, he can now match Hashirama in chakra.
Hashirama is also the only one noted to have the ability to go into sage mode instantly.

Naruto and Minato combined Rasengan didn't do jack to Juubito. Tobirama then saw Naruto combining Senjutsu with his Tailed Beast Bomb.

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Tobirama had the impression that Naruto will surpass Hashirama since this was the second time he impressed him. [

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Note that tobirama says better HOKAGE than my brother , thats what I stated lol.

 

[Ansatsuken]

And I do think that Naruto and Sasuke still have Rikudou power within them, its just because they not activating it, not mean its gone forever.

If Hagoromo power is gone forever,Sasuke will lost his rinnegan eye as that rinnegan eye that is special on its own is by product of Hagoromo power.

Same as Naruto, when he is in his base form, TSB will not appear behind him.

 

[Awkward Linguist]

SHow me the translations please. So we can have a better discussion on it.



It would be weird if Naruto doesn't surpass Hashi. I'm with you on that also.

But then, they are also in peace times.

It doesn't matter, because KCSM naruto complete rekts Hashirama.

You do remember that this is a guy who's born with a Kekkai Genkai, so obviously he's going to be stronger than the average ninja.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Madara died with his body cut in half.... :erm:

So where do Naruto and Sasuke get their unlimited supply of Rikudou chakra?

no lol

Spoiler

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don't ask me, but they do, as shown in the Last and in the epilogue Lol they haven't lost it, nothing has been said about them losing it, nor implied, so what you're saying is just fanfic and nothing more.

As always.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Considering the fact he was highly inferior to Hashirama before the Rikudou chakra...... don't see how it is giving him the edge.

With full Kurama, he can now match Hashirama in chakra.
Hashirama is also the only one noted to have the ability to go into sage mode instantly.

Naruto has entered SM instantly on numerous occasions, the first of which being during his battle with the kyuubi:

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Hashirama isn't winning against perfect jin, 100% Kurama Naruto who also has perfect sage mode.

He can spam bijuu bombs, his speed outclasses anything Hashirama has shown the ability to go up against, his bijuu mode and sage mode give him the strength to fight against SM Hashi in taijutsu, he could summon Fukasaku and Shima for their incredible elemental attacks(as well as their frog-based arsenal, such as Fukasaku's tounge being capable of cutting through just about anything and Shima's acid), and they also possess Gama Rinsho which is an end game for Hashirama as well.

He's not beating Naruto.

 

[Xlad]

Considering the fact he was highly inferior to Hashirama before the Rikudou chakra...... don't see how it is giving him the edge.

With full Kurama, he can now match Hashirama in chakra.
Hashirama is also the only one noted to have the ability to go into sage mode instantly.



Note that tobirama says better HOKAGE than my brother , thats what I stated lol.

Tobirama made that statement when he saw what Naruto is capable of. To be Hokage, he obviously has to be the most powerful in his village. That is one of the main things needed. Being a better Hokage refers to both power and leadership. Lol

I don't know how that conclusion came to be since he was to surpass Jiraiya, Minato, and Kakashi. The latter two who were both Hokage.

 

[KingHashirama]

Naruto has entered SM instantly on numerous occasions, the first of which being during his battle with the kyuubi:

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Hashirama isn't winning against perfect jin, 100% Kurama Naruto who also has perfect sage mode.

He can spam bijuu bombs, his speed outclasses anything Hashirama has shown the ability to go up against, his bijuu mode and sage mode give him the strength to fight against SM Hashi in taijutsu, he could summon Fukasaku and Shima for their incredible elemental attacks(as well as their frog-based arsenal, such as Fukasaku's tounge being capable of cutting through just about anything and Shima's acid), and they also possess Gama Rinsho which is an end game for Hashirama as well.

He's not beating Naruto.

Mokuton > Kurama

SM of a war elite > SM of a peace time guy

His speed in normal Kurama mode isn't that fast... SM can easily counter it... And then you have the fact hes been raised with Tobirama ...


Getting into summons is a different story, Don't really have any interest in it.

Tobirama made that statement when he saw what Naruto is capable of. To be Hokage, he obviously has to be the most powerful in his village. That is one of the main things needed. Being a better Hokage refers to both power and leadership. Lol

I don't know how that conclusion came to be since he was to surpass Jiraiya, Minato, and Kakashi. The latter two who were both Hokage.

For Tobirama, being Hokage wasn't about being the most powerful. Even to Hashirama being Hokage isn't about being the most powerful.

no lol

Spoiler

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don't ask me, but they do, as shown in the Last and in the epilogue Lol they haven't lost it, nothing has been said about them losing it, nor implied, so what you're saying is just fanfic and nothing more.

As always.

In the epilogue both of them don't have it. in the Last it hasn't been shown either from what people are complaining about and stuff. Unless you have seen the last ?

And thank you for proving he didn't die as a jinchuriki. =D

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Let me list anyone who can beat Hashirama:

Kayuya
Madara
Obito
Itachi
DSM Kabuto
Hamura
Hagoromo
Naruto
Sasuke

 

[super yang]

I don't disagree w/ that particular data statement, since kaguya & hagoromo aren't shinobi & naruto & sauce were born after his death.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Mokuton > Kurama

SM of a war elite > SM of a peace time guy

His speed in normal Kurama mode isn't that fast... SM can easily counter it... And then you have the fact hes been raised with Tobirama ...


Getting into summons is a different story, Don't really have any interest in it.

Mokuton isn't going to do much good for the vast majority of the powers BM grants Naruto.

Wut? "peace" SM? You mean the SM he used to fight the 6 paths of Pein, Obito and Juubi Jin Obito? Okay, got it.

His speed in BM isn't that fast? He was so fast he made Kakashi think of Minato.

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And Gai, the man who had moved at the speeds 6th and 7th Gate granted him, considered extremely fast as well:

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Well, of course you don't have any interest in it. It puts Hashirama in an even bigger hole than he already would be from just facing Naruto alone.

This is almost as bad as the Itachi/Sasuke/etc wankers that post "neg diff solo" posts.

 

[KingHashirama]

Mokuton isn't going to do much good for the vast majority of the powers BM grants Naruto.

Wut? "peace" SM? You mean the SM he used to fight the 6 paths of Pein, Obito and Juubi Jin Obito? Okay, got it.

His speed in BM isn't that fast? He was so fast he made Kakashi think of Minato.

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And Gai, the man who had moved at the speeds 6th and 7th Gate granted him, considered extremely fast as well:

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Well, of course you don't have any interest in it. It puts Hashirama in an even bigger hole than he already would be from just facing Naruto alone.

This is almost as bad as the Itachi/Sasuke/etc wankers that post "neg diff solo" posts.

Mokuton can completely shut down BM.. so yea. So you are saying hes more skilled with SM than a guy who has spent his entire life fighting? you are delusional sir.

yea.. on Minatos' level.... cool.. Actually no not even on Minato's sense he can only do it on a whim. And at best it will be at Tobirama's level.... Nothing Hashirama can't handle. Gai 7th and 6th gate is slow compared to Tobirama and Minatos' shunshin.

No you are the only one who thinks this is a VS thread or something.


Mokuton > Kurama

Hashi's SM > NAruto's SM

Hashi's base skills > Naruto's base skills

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Excluding Juubi Jins and Rikudou powers nobody surpassed Hashirama.Adult Naruto and Sasuke might have a chance though.

 

[VongolaX]

It's a weird hype yet a bit of facts with it as well.

In terms of "No shinobi surpassed his power," can be interpret as "Nobody reached higher power without him being apart of it."

His power was not surpassed in very vague and literal terms as the following:

BSM/RSM naruto-Has not surpassed his lineage.
Rinnegan Sasuke- Has not surpassed his power because his cells gave him Ashura's chakra to awaken the rinnegan.
Rinnegan Madara- Same as rinnegan Sasuke, including the creation of will (yin yang release) and summoning Gedo mazou
Ms Obito- After gaining Hashirama's cells, he obtained six paths chakra by combining both incarnate chakra.
Giving him Gedo mazou manipulation, yin yang, and six paths via black rods

Only true people that surpassed that power is juubi jinchuuriki's but they're no longer shinobi's any more.
They're gods....

And night Gai...
Which can be implied that the previous kages can preform it, but it's only an assumption.

 

[Ken Masters]

agreed.

people who surpassed hashi

-obito sage for few hours and had dms for minutes
-kakashi dms for minutes
-madara for few hours, from Rinne Rebirth to his fall
-nardo for few hours, from his return from kamui dimension to hagoromo summoning him back
-sasky for few hours, from his return from death to hagoromo summoning him back

when all done and dusted, when people lose their temporary powerups sm hashirama goes back to top.

 

[V h o]

Stopped reading at databook. Databook lose credibility with temari blowing away the universe.