To Madara fans

[Byron123]

You guys might think that Madara's death was horrible but in fact it had some excellent points if you really think about it. He's the only villain in the series who didn't get talknojutsued! Everyone till now thought he would for sure but in this way he remained a villain even in his death! Also, he did manage to complete his plan, he did manage to become the Juubi Jin but most importantly he didn't lose from the good guys! That way no one will ever be able to say that Madara was weaker than those Naruto and Sasuke. Ofc, they might say that he would lose eventually but the point is that he was defeated by the most powerful being!


Conclusion: You might think that this guy was trolled hard BUT he's the one who became the strongest person after the Ootsutsuki family, he's the second person after Kaguya who activated the Infinitive Tsukuyomi, he's the one whose plan succeeded and he's the one that did not lose from the good guys! Therefore, his death happened when he was at his peak and for that he's unique.

 

[Torche]

Kakazu wasn't TnJ'd, Gato wasn't, Hidan wasn't, Zetsu wasn't. Deidara wasn't, Sasori, Kisame wasn't, the list goes on. Though Madara is like the only Major Villain.

 

[LUMOS ULTIMATUM]

Why do you think he is dead though? It was foreshadowed he will get the power of the fruit and he will be talk no jutsued by Sasuke.

 

[Byron123]

Kakazu wasn't TnJ'd, Gato wasn't, Hidan wasn't, Zetsu wasn't. Deidara wasn't, Sasori, Kisame wasn't, the list goes on. Though Madara is like the only Major Villain.

Yeah ok but I'm talking about the masterminds here, not just the pawns.

Why do you think he is dead though? It was foreshadowed he will get the power of the fruit and he will be talk no jutsued by Sasuke.

Well, when his body turns to ashes it's a good clue XD As for the fruit, he did get its power when he absorbed the tree, also let me remind you that not all things that were forshadowed ended in the expected way. Kotoamatsuki was meant to be used on Sasuke, Naruto was meant to be the one who would make him to return, Minato was supposed to give Naruto the other half while the latter had already his first half to become "complete" and the list can go on.

 

[Torche]

For the record though Madara didn't turn to Ashes. He expanded because of the massive chakra boost then Black Zetsu covered him, he then shrunk back down and morphed into Kaguya.

 

[Meee]

Don't know if hes dead yet, Unlike Kishi to kill his villains like that.

and there were a few villains who weren't TNJ'd.

 

[Byron123]

For the record though Madara didn't turn to Ashes. He expanded because of the massive chakra boost then Black Zetsu covered him, he then shrunk back down and morphed into Kaguya.

Yeah I know but I wanted to sum it up XD

 

[LUMOS ULTIMATUM]

Yeah ok but I'm talking about the masterminds here, not just the pawns.

Well, when his body turns to ashes it's a good clue XD As for the fruit, he did get its power when he absorbed the tree, also let me remind you that not all things that were forshadowed ended in the expected way. Kotoamatsuki was meant to be used on Sasuke, Naruto was meant to be the one who would make him to return, Minato was supposed to give Naruto the other half while the latter had already his first half to become "complete" and the list can go on.

He did not burst. Sakura clearly noted that "he" shrunk down. He is obviously Madara and if he bursted, I am sure Kakashi, Sakura, Naruto or Sasuke would have revealed it.

If you read the previous chapter, you will notice that Madara tapped the ground. I think Madara knew about Kaguya's plan since he has always been a mastermind. He knew it because zetsu was not affected by the Tsukuyomi. Either he suspected BZ to be a traitor or he and black zetsu collaborated, fooling everyone . Also, notice that in chapter 679, Madara has not said a word. Why would kishi not let his villain speak during his final moments? Why did Madara has no flashbacks? Surely Madara is not done yet. Also, like I mentioned, I doubt Hagoromo was not aware of his mother plan. He has been travelling throughout ages. Like Naruto said, he has been watching the reincarnation of his sons fight. Surely, Hagoromo must have known about his mother plan. Yet, he was more wary of Madara attaining the power of the fruit than Kaguya being reborn. See through Kishimoto deception! Madara is not dead yet. I am no fanboy of Madara but I won't let Kishimoto deceive me. Kishimoto even stated in one of his interview that Madara had no weakness and that he didn't know how to defeat Madara. This alone indicates that Madara is one of his important characters. I doubt that Kaguya coming out of nowhere would change this. Kaguya currently is serving her purpose, that is extending the story about the Juubi. Kishimoto said he would write about Madara, Juubi and Sasuke. If you still deny, then I won't be able to change your opinion since our state of minds are not mutually shared.

 

[the last shinobi]

Kakazu wasn't TnJ'd, Gato wasn't, Hidan wasn't, Zetsu wasn't. Deidara wasn't, Sasori, Kisame wasn't, the list goes on. Though Madara is like the only Major Villain.

Sasori might as well have been he ended up spilling the beans anyway

 

[NaruSasuRival]

You guys might think that Madara's death was horrible but in fact it had some excellent points if you really think about it. He's the only villain in the series who didn't get talknojutsued! Everyone till now thought he would for sure but in this way he remained a villain even in his death! Also, he did manage to complete his plan, he did manage to become the Juubi Jin but most importantly he didn't lose from the good guys! That way no one will ever be able to say that Madara was weaker than those Naruto and Sasuke. Ofc, they might say that he would lose eventually but the point is that he was defeated by the most powerful being!


Conclusion: You might think that this guy was trolled hard BUT he's the one who became the strongest person after the Ootsutsuki family, he's the second person after Kaguya who activated the Infinitive Tsukuyomi, he's the one whose plan succeeded and he's the one that did not lose from the good guys! Therefore, his death happened when he was at his peak and for that he's unique.

Really? Do you really think the villain who got talked no Jutsued where bad?

Seriously, I doubt it.

Nagato had his own ways, and he fought fully for it until he ran out of power. Apart from those readers who never read the manga, Kishi started by proving that Nagato could not fight by himself because he was crippled. Then, he showed that Nagato was using Pain puppet to do his job. At that point, Nagato was a true badass, and Madara never got close that Nagato as Villain. After that stage, Naruto and Kyuubi beat the crap out of Nagato's Pain, leaving Nagato (crippled) himself. Even after that, Kishi showed that Nagato had prepared his last trump card in case the puppet failed. So Nagato had the biggest black rod bullet he ever use penetrate Naruto in KSM mode. His only problem was that KSM Naruto was simply stronger than Nagato's power, and therefore was able to remove the rod. Naruto, even unconsciously, gave chakra to nagato so that they can talk. See, Nagato was a true man who had his goal but wasn't strong enough to achieve it. Thus, he knew that he could talk with the guy who beat him, and clearly, Naruto's opinion was better than his.

Obito was Tobi and he was a true villain compared to Madara. With the only power he had, he managed with his team to gather most of the bijus in very difficult condition. When his identity was revealed, he had to face people he loved and continue to love. He even was still loving them. I am pretty sure if Madara was not edo tenseied, Obito would have stopped the war. The reason Obito continued to fight was more to keep Madara from doing his own plan. While many people want to see Obito as villain, he was not one. Obito was someone who was trying to genuinely save the world.

On the other hand, Madara was a sore loser. He lost to Hashirama all his life and kept a grudge. Basically, Madara was looking for acknowledgement till the end by claiming that he saved the world. This was BS because he did not even know what IT was about. See, Madara was a coward who spent his life gathering other people power, and never used these power actually. If Madara wanted really to kill Sasuke and Naruto, he would have faced them before the IT, but no, he did not do that. Whether you like or not, Madara was not even worth the time of Sasuke and Naruto. Basically, we could sum up like this:

Madara is no match for Sasuke and Naruto. He is a loser, and is not worth their time. Naruto and Sasuke need a true villain, Kaguya in order to give us a fight.

 

[xcoyote]

Tnj would have been a blessing for someone like Madara.
2 chapters ago in his conversation with Obito Madara showed his true colours,a pitiful man he is.
He took pride in his schemes and how he always was the man behind the man.
But Karma is a b!tch and came to bite his ass really hard,he was used just like he used Obito and got put down like a mad dog,without any chance to fight back.
A humiliating,ironic yet well deserved defeat i must say.

 

[Byron123]

He did not burst. Sakura clearly noted that "he" shrunk down. He is obviously Madara and if he bursted, I am sure Kakashi, Sakura, Naruto or Sasuke would have revealed it.

If you read the previous chapter, you will notice that Madara tapped the ground. I think Madara knew about Kaguya's plan since he has always been a mastermind. He knew it because zetsu was not affected by the Tsukuyomi. Either he suspected BZ to be a traitor or he and black zetsu collaborated, fooling everyone . Also, notice that in chapter 679, Madara has not said a word. Why would kishi not let his villain speak during his final moments? Why did Madara has no flashbacks? Surely Madara is not done yet. Also, like I mentioned, I doubt Hagoromo was not aware of his mother plan. He has been travelling throughout ages. Like Naruto said, he has been watching the reincarnation of his sons fight. Surely, Hagoromo must have known about his mother plan. Yet, he was more wary of Madara attaining the power of the fruit than Kaguya being reborn. See through Kishimoto deception! Madara is not dead yet. I am no fanboy of Madara but I won't let Kishimoto deceive me. Kishimoto even stated in one of his interview that Madara had no weakness and that he didn't know how to defeat Madara. This alone indicates that Madara is one of his important characters. I doubt that Kaguya coming out of nowhere would change this. Kaguya currently is serving her purpose, that is extending the story about the Juubi. Kishimoto said he would write about Madara, Juubi and Sasuke. If you still deny, then I won't be able to change your opinion since our state of minds are not mutually shared.

Lol what do I still deny? In your first post you didn't say most of these things, you only said that he's still alive without giving any explanation at that point. Now, that you gave your arguments, let me give mine:

1: When he was tapping the ground a lot of chapters ago was to communicate with Black Zetsu because he was ordering him to take control of Obito.
2: Madara did question how it was possible for BZ to go against him and he was completely shocked throughough the whole treasoning, how you come from that to the conclusion that he knew anything. Just because he didn't have more time to talk afterwards, that doesn't make it a good excuse.
3. Hagoromo did know of his mother's plan and was indeed wary of Madara but that's because, as it was proven, Madara by obtaining that much chakra and by casting, he helped BZ to absorb enormous amounts of chakra and that as a result allowed him to take control of him. If Madara hadn't used IT in the first place, BZ would have never got that much of power to immobilize Madara and then use him as Kaguya's vessel. Thus, Hagomoro's worrying was exactly because he knew that Madara by getting that chakra, he was helping in Kaguya's revival.
4. Kishi did say that he had made Madara invincible and all that is a good reason to make an even stronger character, in fact the strongest, to use him as her vessel, and thus taking him out and replacing him with an even cooler. Also, Kishi did mention of Madara and he had his role, maybe not a big as expected but seriously what else did you expect him to say, to tell the name of Kaguya, why should he reveal everything?

Really? Do you really think the villain who got talked no Jutsued where bad?

Seriously, I doubt it.

Nagato had his own ways, and he fought fully for it until he ran out of power. Apart from those readers who never read the manga, Kishi started by proving that Nagato could not fight by himself because he was crippled. Then, he showed that Nagato was using Pain puppet to do his job. At that point, Nagato was a true badass, and Madara never got close that Nagato as Villain. After that stage, Naruto and Kyuubi beat the crap out of Nagato's Pain, leaving Nagato (crippled) himself. Even after that, Kishi showed that Nagato had prepared his last trump card in case the puppet failed. So Nagato had the biggest black rod bullet he ever use penetrate Naruto in KSM mode. His only problem was that KSM Naruto was simply stronger than Nagato's power, and therefore was able to remove the rod. Naruto, even unconsciously, gave chakra to nagato so that they can talk. See, Nagato was a true man who had his goal but wasn't strong enough to achieve it. Thus, he knew that he could talk with the guy who beat him, and clearly, Naruto's opinion was better than his.

Obito was Tobi and he was a true villain compared to Madara. With the only power he had, he managed with his team to gather most of the bijus in very difficult condition. When his identity was revealed, he had to face people he loved and continue to love. He even was still loving them. I am pretty sure if Madara was not edo tenseied, Obito would have stopped the war. The reason Obito continued to fight was more to keep Madara from doing his own plan. While many people want to see Obito as villain, he was not one. Obito was someone who was trying to genuinely save the world.

On the other hand, Madara was a sore loser. He lost to Hashirama all his life and kept a grudge. Basically, Madara was looking for acknowledgement till the end by claiming that he saved the world. This was BS because he did not even know what IT was about. See, Madara was a coward who spent his life gathering other people power, and never used these power actually. If Madara wanted really to kill Sasuke and Naruto, he would have faced them before the IT, but no, he did not do that. Whether you like or not, Madara was not even worth the time of Sasuke and Naruto. Basically, we could sum up like this:

Madara is no match for Sasuke and Naruto. He is a loser, and is not worth their time. Naruto and Sasuke need a true villain, Kaguya in order to give us a fight.

Lol it's funny when someone jumps into conclusions like that, I've never said that I didn't liek the characters that got talknojutsued, in fact I did and a lot, but it's refreshing to see for once the villain not to change his points of view and all that while he doesn't lose from the good, typically,guys and indeed gets backstabbed in order for him to lose when he reaches the peak of his power and when his plan that had planned so many years ago had for once come into fruition.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Lol it's funny when someone jumps into conclusions like that, I've never said that I didn't liek the characters that got talknojutsued, in fact I did and a lot, but it's refreshing to see for once the villain not to change his points of view and all that while he doesn't lose from the good, typically,guys and indeed gets backstabbed in order for him to lose when he reaches the peak of his power and when his plan that had planned so many years ago had for once come into fruition.

Like I said, your interpretation is not correct. Madara died before knowing if his plan was successful. The reason is that casting IT while some people escape is not enough. He would have succeeded if and only if everyone was in IT. Before Madara died, the 4 edo kages, Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi was still breathing. They were going to kick his ass and show him how dumb he was. See, he would have faced the same fate he faced in BZ's hand, but with a bitter taste than what he got with BZ.


Casting IT without trapping your true enemies is a failure, and because of that, his was half-way. In fact, Madara lost completely just as Obito. Those who got talk no Jutsued where talked no Jutsus after they were beaten. So far, no villain has been talk no jutsued without being beaten in a fight. Nagato was beaten, so was Obito and every villain that faced Naruto till the end. Madara just did not fight Naruto. If did, he would have lost and would have admitted his stupidity.
If you think that admitting your mistakes after being beaten and proven wrong is talk no Jutsus, then it is your opinion.

 

[LUMOS ULTIMATUM]

Lol what do I still deny? In your first post you didn't say most of these things, you only said that he's still alive without giving any explanation at that point. Now, that you gave your arguments, let me give mine:

1: When he was tapping the ground a lot of chapters ago was to communicate with Black Zetsu because he was ordering him to take control of Obito.
2: Madara did question how it was possible for BZ to go against him and he was completely shocked throughough the whole treasoning, how you come from that to the conclusion that he knew anything. Just because he didn't have more time to talk afterwards, that doesn't make it a good excuse.
3. Hagoromo did know of his mother's plan and was indeed wary of Madara but that's because, as it was proven, Madara by obtaining that much chakra and by casting, he helped BZ to absorb enormous amounts of chakra and that as a result allowed him to take control of him. If Madara hadn't used IT in the first place, BZ would have never got that much of power to immobilize Madara and then use him as Kaguya's vessel. Thus, Hagomoro's worrying was exactly because he knew that Madara by getting that chakra, he was helping in Kaguya's revival.
4. Kishi did say that he had made Madara invincible and all that is a good reason to make an even stronger character, in fact the strongest, to use him as her vessel, and thus taking him out and replacing him with an even cooler. Also, Kishi did mention of Madara and he had his role, maybe not a big as expected but seriously what else did you expect him to say, to tell the name of Kaguya, why should he reveal everything?



Lol it's funny when someone jumps into conclusions like that, I've never said that I didn't liek the characters that got talknojutsued, in fact I did and a lot, but it's refreshing to see for once the villain not to change his points of view and all that while he doesn't lose from the good, typically,guys and indeed gets backstabbed in order for him to lose when he reaches the peak of his power and when his plan that had planned so many years ago had for once come into fruition.

1) Invalid argument. Why would he order black zetsu anything when it was already controlling Obito. You people underestimate Madara's intelligence. He either has a backup plan(spiral zetsu) or he is collaborating with zetsu. Zetsu betraying him might be a cover for Kaguya to not be unaware of anything. Think of it, why would Madara not try to deceive Kaguya? Madara is a master manipulator, that's all to it
2) Shocked? You know well one can simply act. It seems that you don't see through the mangaka's point of view. Madara was a villain who desired peace. Yet, when he fails and is going to die, there are no flashbacks. Nothing that ties with Hashirama, Izuna, his brothers or his backstory? Madara is not dead.
3) Hagoromo didn't talk about Kaguya revival but the fruit. He feared that a new fruit will be formed. What you are saying isn't corroborated at the very least by this manga page.

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4) The main villain has always been Madara. There are hints everywhere. Madara was the one who influenced the plot as a major villain. The war was caused by Tobi in the guise of Madara.

Let's not discuss this further.

 

[minamoto]

Tobidara will show kaguya Madara's true worth !!

 

[Draven]

good theory byron but we will see soon enough in the next few chapters.

 

[Byron123]

1) Invalid argument. Why would he order black zetsu anything when it was already controlling Obito. You people underestimate Madara's intelligence. He either has a backup plan(spiral zetsu) or he is collaborating with zetsu. Zetsu betraying him might be a cover for Kaguya to not be unaware of anything. Think of it, why would Madara not try to deceive Kaguya? Madara is a master manipulator, that's all to it
2) Shocked? You know well one can simply act. It seems that you don't see through the mangaka's point of view. Madara was a villain who desired peace. Yet, when he fails and is going to die, there are no flashbacks. Nothing that ties with Hashirama, Izuna, his brothers or his backstory? Madara is not dead.
3) Hagoromo didn't talk about Kaguya revival but the fruit. He feared that a new fruit will be formed. What you are saying isn't corroborated at the very least by this manga page.

You must be registered for see images

4) The main villain has always been Madara. There are hints everywhere. Madara was the one who influenced the plot as a major villain. The war was caused by Tobi in the guise of Madara.

Let's not discuss this further.

1) I'm referring to when he hadn't yet contol over him, you didn't point a specific time so I don't know to when you're referring.
2) So you say that he was only acting, and wanted to to get absorbed by kaguya why? He did't seem the least happy with the whole process, he was in extreme pain, unless ofc that is an act as well according to you.
3) About your third point: what this has to do with Madara? So you're saying that when the new fruit emerges, he will somehow take control over Kaguya and eat it?

 

[LUMOS ULTIMATUM]

1) I'm referring to when he hadn't yet contol over him, you didn't point a specific time so I don't know to when you're referring.
2) So you say that he was only acting, and wanted to to get absorbed by kaguya why? He did't seem the least happy with the whole process, he was in extreme pain, unless ofc that is an act as well according to you.
3) About your third point: what this has to do with Madara? So you're saying that when the new fruit emerges, he will somehow take control over Kaguya and eat it?

2) He was in pain, why would he be happy. Why don't you get my point? He convinced Black Zetsu that he took control. Of course, he will look surprised and if the process is painful, why would he be happy? The only act was convincing Black Zetsu he wasn't aware of anything while Madara was well prepared.

3) Of course , Madara can't do that. It's logical. Naruto and Sasuke are going to weaken Kaguya and the sage's tools will be used to seal Kaguya. Madara surely cannot take complete control over Kaguya but I think that since he is in Kaguya's body, he should be able to at least cause Kaguya to be sealed in the same way Ino did with one of the Kin Gin brothers. Kaguya's chakra would be used to cause the creation of a new fruit. Now you must ask why didn't Madara let Kaguya take control of him if he wanted the fruit? It's simple. The shinju and Kaguya are closely linked. What if Madara was aware of that? Then, he would surely know it would be meaningless to use the Tsukuyomi and create a new chakra fruit. It is because the moment he would absorb chakra, Kaguya would take over her body and come back. So, Madara planned everything. You should have read that thread of mine.

 

[Byron123]

2) He was in pain, why would he be happy. Why don't you get my point? He convinced Black Zetsu that he took control. Of course, he will look surprised and if the process is painful, why would he be happy? The only act was convincing Black Zetsu he wasn't aware of anything while Madara was well prepared.

3) Of course , Madara can't do that. It's logical. Naruto and Sasuke are going to weaken Kaguya and the sage's tools will be used to seal Kaguya. Madara surely cannot take complete control over Kaguya but I think that since he is in Kaguya's body, he should be able to at least cause Kaguya to be sealed in the same way Ino did with one of the Kin Gin brothers. Kaguya's chakra would be used to cause the creation of a new fruit. Now you must ask why didn't Madara let Kaguya take control of him if he wanted the fruit? It's simple. The shinju and Kaguya are closely linked. What if Madara was aware of that? Then, he would surely know it would be meaningless to use the Tsukuyomi and create a new chakra fruit. It is because the moment he would absorb chakra, Kaguya would take over her body and come back. So, Madara planned everything. You should have read that thread of mine.

I'm sorry but I don't have any free time to read threads, not specifically yours. As for your arguments, I don't say that they're wrong, I simply don't agree. Let's end it here, you have your opinion and I mine, only the manga will tell from here onwards

 

[LUMOS ULTIMATUM]

I'm sorry but I don't have any free time to read threads, not specifically yours. As for your arguments, I don't say that they're wrong, I simply don't agree. Let's end it here, you have your opinion and I mine, only the manga will tell from here onwards

No problem! What I said was just a theory of mine and I could be wrong as well. It's just that I find it absurd that someone like Madara would go down so easily. Lol, all these posts make me seem like a Madara fanboy.