[Theory] To all those naive children who think permanent peace has been achieved [Must Read]

[UzumakiRyu]

Peace was achieved if only for the limited time it lasts until the next ninja who is tainted by whatever hate overcomes him or her

 

[TheWolfHasSpoken]

Even if it happened, who the heck would go against Naruto and Sasuke. Please tell me.

naruto and sasuke are not immortal, duh, please understand the meaning of the post before saying something.

 

[iNotorious]

naruto and sasuke are not immortal, duh, please understand the meaning of the post before saying something.

Not immortal yet naruto has hashirama cells, they just need to pull out an obito move.

 

[Agent Phrank]

So this is the baby boomer era of Naruto...going into the Cold War...oh this is going to be interesting.

 

[Tennis Robot]

GUYS I WROTE AFTER THIS MUTUAL PAIN IS FORGOTTEN i.e AFTER NARUTO AND THIS GENERATION DIES.
READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT!!!

Naruto's ideals won't be forgotten for a long time. He is going to be more renowned than Hashirama; he will probably end up second to only Hagoromo after his death. But Naruto will be remembered for how hard he worked to create peace for everyone, while Hagoromo will forever be known only as a progenitor of chakra. I'm sure they fixed the Uchiha tablet thing, which was ultimately the source of all the world's problems. Of course it won't be perfect, but as long as people remember Naruto, things will be ok.

 

[SSStylish]

I agree. Madara, Sasuke and Nagato had better ideals which would've borught at least "false" peace. Good enough for me.

 

[lndra]

Then Bolt will carry his ideals.

Even if he is not at the same power level as his father, that little kid will still be OP as ****. Sarada too.

 

[TheWolfHasSpoken]

Naruto's ideals won't be forgotten for a long time. He is going to be more renowned than Hashirama; he will probably end up second to only Hagoromo after his death. But Naruto will be remembered for how hard he worked to create peace for everyone, while Hagoromo will forever be known only as a progenitor of chakra. I'm sure they fixed the Uchiha tablet thing, which was ultimately the source of all the world's problems. Of course it won't be perfect, but as long as people remember Naruto, things will be ok.

This is the problem right here. Yes the world will be peaceful as long as naruto and the war and the mutual sufferings and co-operation is remembered, but as soon as this generation or maybe the next dies, boom back to the old way. You can not inherit kindness and compassion, and it is not necessary that your descendants would be the same as you.

 

[TheWolfHasSpoken]

Then Bolt will carry his ideals.

Even if he is not at the same power level as his father, that little kid will still be OP as ****. Sarada too.

Bolt has nothing to look up to, he has everything except for his fathers attendance. Naruto on the other hand had experienced pain and suffering throughout his life. He was different from the start

 

[Xāvî1]

Peace is achieved .

Naruto <3 Sasuke = Peace!

 

[TheWolfHasSpoken]

I agree. Madara, Sasuke and Nagato had better ideals which would've borught at least "false" peace. Good enough for me.

Peace that is achieved right now is on Nagatos ideals which was rejected by naruto. But it will be a temporary peace ans Nagato said

 

[narutojunky]

Peace: What is this?

Time: How much do we need to find peace?

Permanence: What is this state and how does it remain, can it remain?

Circumstances: What are the necessary circumstances for peace?

There are two obvious problems with discussing this manga and its own internal discovery of peace.

1. Q:We know that to have a manga of this type is to have action, and to have action means conflict, so we observe the manga as an object with certain characteristics and not as a world which can alter its own characteristics-a genre.

A."Peace" will be achieved when the story can no longer operate in the genre it currently inhabits.

2. Q:What are the terms of engagement between our real world experiences and the manga world experience and in what order do we take them?

A:The key to engagement with this genre and this story is that the manga world experience functions as a plea from the author, not as a real world manual for conducting complex policy.

These questions lead us to a very important question: What is the purpose of this text? Or perhaps, is there an INTENDED purpose for this text?

Intended Purpose: This has a lot of answers, so lets get to work, First the text is a call for peace and breaking the cycles of violence but how entrenched those cycles are prevent a position of permanent understanding and total peace. Second the text is a response to a genre and attempts to place itself within a specific canon. Third the text is a means of economic success and will promote the economic well being of the author and certain people with his cadre of artisans/artists.

How do these three things effect the meaning of this text?

And how can we OBSERVE peace in Naruto?

Naruto as an epic on the difficulty of FINDING peace: At the end of Naruto there are two important resolutions of plot points.

1. "How can I become Hokage if I can't even save one Friend?" Naruto successfully saves his friend, clearing the greatest hurdle to become Hokage.

2. "I want to surpass the Hokage and make everyone in the village recognize me." This part had already been achieved by defeating Pain, and was further cemented by his part in the last war.

What is unanswered at this point?

1. What happened to the nation of Amakagure and others similar to it?
2. Are children still being trained to be soldiers?

Now, lets head back to the beginning...

Peace:What is this?

The manga seems to propose peace as; A world without unending organized conflict and violence.

Time: How much of this do we need to find peace?

The manga proposes a massive amount of time is necessary to LOCATE the conditions to arrange PEACE.

The manga has now clearly become a history of large scale violence in Japan and the transition from clans to states, from feudalism to democracy.

Which leaves an unanswered question which needs to be resolved: Is the transition to democracy, capitalism, and economic entanglement creating peace on a larger scale, or even a universal scale in the manga?

Remember that Naruto is a resolution of a conflict which rippled through time for centuries.

I would assume that the new era for peace and its growth is going to be a very long era as well, and its evolution will result over the course of many generations.

What we see now in chap.700 is a temporary peace which has gained a foot hold so that MORE conditions of PEACE can be LOCATED and SECURED.

How is peace secured and how does it become permanent?

Permanence: What is this state and how does it remain, can it remain?

Permanence would promote an idea of eternal, unending peace that is enforced from a singular source, state or ideology.

However if we follow the lessons of Itachi, one does not become Hokage by doing everything themselves, they become Hokage by building relationships. Hence, tyranny is an unaccepable quality in a Hokage or person whom brings peace.

How does this effect peace?

Circumstances: What are the necessary circumstances for peace?

Peace in Naruto will become a state of mutual agreement, a social contract, not one that is enforced through force, or a militarized structure. In the end a police state is still a state of violence, PEACE must be DISCOVERED through MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING AND AGREEMENT. Otherwise I.T. would have been an acceptable response to history and its cycles of violence.

So permanence is creating a condition of mutual agreement between disparate communities that construct a social contract that is beyond the succumbing to the stresses of economics, material scarcity and conflict that could erupt over them. The social contract must be stronger then the bonds of STATE, MARKET, RELIGION, AND FAMILY.

A goal of mutual prosperity no matter where the other person resides.

The foundation of peace in Naruto is the elimination of the OTHER, the salve to xenophobia being understanding that mostly everyone wants the same thing; prosperity, happiness.

Ninshuu has helped dissolve the OTHER that was born from the creation of nations, which was a mutation of the OTHER born from the clan system. Ninshuu has allowed everyone to witness the similarity between each other which has allowed acceptance of their difference as a strength and not a threat.

However, the nations have organized around an external OTHER and that has also helped locate their current peace, so a type of xenophobia still remains, lurking. A desire for violence against external threats.

So being that a certain group of people were able to achieve peace in the ninja world, we are still unsure if peace as a sustained effort is yet to be had.

The circumstances for peace that Pain spoke of are in place, however, Pain failed to see an avenue beyond his initial plan which shows a level of exceptional cynicism on his part, which is why he chose to believe in Naruto, a person who was not cynical, who believed in breaking cycles, not creating them.

Naruto's task and really Sasuke's and Bolt and Salada and everyone in Konohoa and elsewhere is to not become lazy during this peace and still urgently search for the conditions of a longer peace.

A peace where there is not sustained, organized, violence conflict over any material or ideology.

A peace that has not been created yet, but is certainly not out of the realms of possibility.

The next generations must find a way to:

1. Secure materials for all people, so that strife will not occur from scarcity or hunger
2. Secure agreement amongst all people so that nationalism and ideology will not deter or disrupt peace
3. Secure a new identity for children
4. Secure the security of small nations and do not have them function as a proxy for larger nation conflicts
5. Displace the need for a scapegoat or threatening OTHER from the social system and contract

Telling the difference between Ten Ten's momentary complacency as an experience of peacefulness, and the longer term circumstances of a lasting Peace is going to be the crucial and difficult task for Naruto's generation, and Bolts as well.

They must see past the illusion of their own peacefulness and keep striving for peace.

They must help determine conditions to locate peace, otherwise, the ending of the feud of brothers will be for nothing, just momentary pleasure in the guise of peace.

 

[narutojunky]

On the reason for the author working for money: We cannot know Kishimoto sensei's purpose for continuing this story, so I choose not to imagine how money compels his behavior or what money means at that scale.

Kishimoto clearly loves creating manga. Imagining what we would do for money doesn't mean that is what he would do for money.

Economic speculation of this author is sort of meaningless and causes distractions from critical engagement of the text.

On Naruto's placement in a specific genre: Most artists (I am an artist too..) would like their work to fit in with those they considered to be the best.

This is the meaning of personal ambition. To make the greatest art that can be made, on your own terms.

Neither of these goals influence my reading of the text of Naruto.

 

[TheWolfHasSpoken]

Peace: What is this?

Time: How much do we need to find peace?

Permanence: What is this state and how does it remain, can it remain?

Circumstances: What are the necessary circumstances for peace?

There are two obvious problems with discussing this manga and its own internal discovery of peace.

1. Q:We know that to have a manga of this type is to have action, and to have action means conflict, so we observe the manga as an object with certain characteristics and not as a world which can alter its own characteristics-a genre.

A."Peace" will be achieved when the story can no longer operate in the genre it currently inhabits.

2. Q:What are the terms of engagement between our real world experiences and the manga world experience and in what order do we take them?

A:The key to engagement with this genre and this story is that the manga world experience functions as a plea from the author, not as a real world manual for conducting complex policy.

These questions lead us to a very important question: What is the purpose of this text? Or perhaps, is there an INTENDED purpose for this text?

Intended Purpose: This has a lot of answers, so lets get to work, First the text is a call for peace and breaking the cycles of violence but how entrenched those cycles are prevent a position of permanent understanding and total peace. Second the text is a response to a genre and attempts to place itself within a specific canon. Third the text is a means of economic success and will promote the economic well being of the author and certain people with his cadre of artisans/artists.

How do these three things effect the meaning of this text?

And how can we OBSERVE peace in Naruto?

Naruto as an epic on the difficulty of FINDING peace: At the end of Naruto there are two important resolutions of plot points.

1. "How can I become Hokage if I can't even save one Friend?" Naruto successfully saves his friend, clearing the greatest hurdle to become Hokage.

2. "I want to surpass the Hokage and make everyone in the village recognize me." This part had already been achieved by defeating Pain, and was further cemented by his part in the last war.

What is unanswered at this point?

1. What happened to the nation of Amakagure and others similar to it?
2. Are children still being trained to be soldiers?

Now, lets head back to the beginning...

Peace:What is this?

The manga seems to propose peace as; A world without unending organized conflict and violence.

Time: How much of this do we need to find peace?

The manga proposes a massive amount of time is necessary to LOCATE the conditions to arrange PEACE.

The manga has now clearly become a history of large scale violence in Japan and the transition from clans to states, from feudalism to democracy.

Which leaves an unanswered question which needs to be resolved: Is the transition to democracy, capitalism, and economic entanglement creating peace on a larger scale, or even a universal scale in the manga?

Remember that Naruto is a resolution of a conflict which rippled through time for centuries.

I would assume that the new era for peace and its growth is going to be a very long era as well, and its evolution will result over the course of many generations.

What we see now in chap.700 is a temporary peace which has gained a foot hold so that MORE conditions of PEACE can be LOCATED and SECURED.

How is peace secured and how does it become permanent?

Permanence: What is this state and how does it remain, can it remain?

Permanence would promote an idea of eternal, unending peace that is enforced from a singular source, state or ideology.

However if we follow the lessons of Itachi, one does not become Hokage by doing everything themselves, they become Hokage by building relationships. Hence, tyranny is an unaccepable quality in a Hokage or person whom brings peace.

How does this effect peace?

Circumstances: What are the necessary circumstances for peace?

Peace in Naruto will become a state of mutual agreement, a social contract, not one that is enforced through force, or a militarized structure. In the end a police state is still a state of violence, PEACE must be DISCOVERED through MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING AND AGREEMENT. Otherwise I.T. would have been an acceptable response to history and its cycles of violence.

So permanence is creating a condition of mutual agreement between disparate communities that construct a social contract that is beyond the succumbing to the stresses of economics, material scarcity and conflict that could erupt over them. The social contract must be stronger then the bonds of STATE, MARKET, RELIGION, AND FAMILY.

A goal of mutual prosperity no matter where the other person resides.

The foundation of peace in Naruto is the elimination of the OTHER, the salve to xenophobia being understanding that mostly everyone wants the same thing; prosperity, happiness.

Ninshuu has helped dissolve the OTHER that was born from the creation of nations, which was a mutation of the OTHER born from the clan system. Ninshuu has allowed everyone to witness the similarity between each other which has allowed acceptance of their difference as a strength and not a threat.

However, the nations have organized around an external OTHER and that has also helped locate their current peace, so a type of xenophobia still remains, lurking. A desire for violence against external threats.

So being that a certain group of people were able to achieve peace in the ninja world, we are still unsure if peace as a sustained effort is yet to be had.

The circumstances for peace that Pain spoke of are in place, however, Pain failed to see an avenue beyond his initial plan which shows a level of exceptional cynicism on his part, which is why he chose to believe in Naruto, a person who was not cynical, who believed in breaking cycles, not creating them.

Naruto's task and really Sasuke's and Bolt and Salada and everyone in Konohoa and elsewhere is to not become lazy during this peace and still urgently search for the conditions of a longer peace.

A peace where there is not sustained, organized, violence conflict over any material or ideology.

A peace that has not been created yet, but is certainly not out of the realms of possibility.

The next generations must find a way to:

1. Secure materials for all people, so that strife will not occur from scarcity or hunger
2. Secure agreement amongst all people so that nationalism and ideology will not deter or disrupt peace
3. Secure a new identity for children
4. Secure the security of small nations and do not have them function as a proxy for larger nation conflicts
5. Displace the need for a scapegoat or threatening OTHER from the social system and contract

Telling the difference between Ten Ten's momentary complacency as an experience of peacefulness, and the longer term circumstances of a lasting Peace is going to be the crucial and difficult task for Naruto's generation, and Bolts as well.

They must see past the illusion of their own peacefulness and keep striving for peace.

They must help determine conditions to locate peace, otherwise, the ending of the feud of brothers will be for nothing, just momentary pleasure in the guise of peace.

Nice post Sir!

 

[Hazo]

In manga - It has been achieved momentarily

Realistically - No way

 

[A Perfect Orgasm]

Peace is achieved permanently in the NV because it's Shounen and that was the protagonist's end goal. Lol U_U I don't even know why you care so much anyway... Lol

What gobb said

 

[TheWolfHasSpoken]

What gobb said

i wrote the reason in the beginning of the thread, I had to make my point.

 

[narutojunky]

THX so much for the like!

 

[cmoG]

I'm pretty sure (if anyone would like to post the scans) what Sasuke told Naruto in 699 about there being other situations out there like his & Naruto's (and there not being Naruto's around to stop such issues) alludes to why there is no permanent peace. It is also part of Sasuke's journeying. Naruto protects the leaf & Sasuke protects the lands of others. However, being that the manga has ended, it's up in limbo, unless Kishi decides to expand beyond what we saw in 700.

 

[V h o]

Guess some can not accept Kishi's words, panels, or message....