Tier List v2 (Continued)

[KidGamer65]

I thought there were no mods in the VS section. :lol Still a good list.

Kinshiki moved a whole tier below EMS Sasuke?

Sasuke would slaughter him. He may have more firepower, but that's it. He can't damage Susanoo nor will he overwhelm it in close combat.

 

[V h o]

Ootoriyu Jin handled this.



This is what JJ Madara had against Gai:

-Flight.
-Gudo Dama Staff.

Didn't use Limbo and the rest of his Gudo Dama were removed since he had help from Minato. Only reason he was able to hit Madara with the last punch and Night Guy is because he didn't have the Gudo Dama. Give him the Gudo Dama and take away his support and he dies against Madara.

Now, put a JJ Madara who only uses flight and a staff against EMS Madara's (pretend EMS Madara has Senjutsu since we are ranking power here) Perfect Susanoo and Hashirama's Mokujin. (equal to PS) or SS (Far stronger than PS) Tell me who dies? Speed isn't going to going to defeat SS or PS.

Ems madara doesn't have senjutsu. And speed does matter since jj madara can literally blitz them casually. Also note that 8th gate gai forced madara to be on the defensive because of his overwhelming speed. And yes I know gai loses to jj madara.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ems madara doesn't have senjutsu. And speed does matter since jj madara can literally blitz them casually. Also note that 8th gate gai forced madara to be on the defensive because of his overwhelming speed. And yes I know gai loses to jj madara.

......

You've literally answered nothing.

1. Already said that Madara has Senjutsu, but for all intents and purposes pretend he does since we are ranking his strength, and not being able to harm the Gudo Dama is irrelevant to the actual power he wields.

2. Speed isn't irrelevant as blitzing them doesn't mean he can overpower them, which is the whole point of the discussion. Gai forced Madara on the defensive because of his speed and power, not just speed.

And you've yet to answer the question.

Now, put a JJ Madara who only uses flight and a staff against EMS Madara's (pretend EMS Madara has Senjutsu since we are ranking power here) Perfect Susanoo and Hashirama's Mokujin. (equal to PS) or SS (Far stronger than PS) Tell me who dies? Speed isn't going to going to defeat SS or PS.

 

[V h o]

......

You've literally answered nothing.

1. Already said that Madara has Senjutsu, but for all intents and purposes pretend he does since we are ranking his strength, and not being able to harm the Gudo Dama is irrelevant to the actual power he wields.

2. Speed isn't irrelevant as blitzing them doesn't mean he can overpower them, which is the whole point of the discussion. Gai forced Madara on the defensive because of his speed and power, not just speed.

And you've yet to answer the question.

1. Why should I pretend ems madara has senjutsu? He lacks the ability and so did gai but gai still performed. Ems madara has kurama.

2. Yes it was both speed and power, however both SM madara and ems madara lack speed and probably reaction to someone on a JJ level.

As to your question, given only a staff and flight is doubtful if he could break either of their defenses. However neither should be allowed to use those defenses nor push jj madara to being defensive since they're basically too slow. Oh and JJ madara most likely won't die due to regeneration regardless.

I still fail to see how 8th gate gai is the same tier as either of them when he beats both imo.

 

[EZQ]

Lmfao, because the mods locked the first one for literally no reason.

Tier 0

Kaguya



Tier 1

JJ Hagoromo
Tenseigan Hamura

-gap-

Rinne Sharingan Madara

Tier 2

RSM Naruto
JJ Madara
Adult Sasuke
Adult Naruto
Hagoromo Ootsutsuki
Hamura Ootsutsuki
Fused Momoshiki

Tier 3

RG Sasuke
DMS Kakashi


Tier 4

Juubito
Base Rikduo Naruto
One eyed Madara w/ Shinju
Indra
Asura

Tier 5


SM Hashirama
EMS Madara w/ Kurama
Eighth Gate Gai
Toneri

Tier 6

Orochimaru w/ Edo Tensei (Minus Hashirama)
EMS Madara
Edo Madara
Kabuto w/ Edo Tensei (minus Madara)

Tier 7

BSM Naruto
Rinnegan Obito w/ Bijuu
BM Naruto
Base Hashirama



Tier 8

EMS Sasuke


Tier 9

Kinshiki
Nagato (Rejuvenated)


Tier 10

KCM Minato
KCM Naruto
Killer B
Rinnegan Obito w/o Bijuu
SM Kabuto
Edo Itachi
Six Paths of Pain
Edo Tobirama

Tier 11
7G Gai
Base Minato
Tobirama
Itachi
MS Obito
War Arc SM Naruto
War Arc Kakashi
Mu
2nd Mizukage
Gaara
Third Raikage
MS Sasuke (Post Danzo fight)
Kisame

-gap-

Danzo Shimura
Hanzo
Jiraiya
Orochimaru
Onoki
Ay





Tier 12

Kinkaku
Ginkaku
Sasori
Mei
Tsunade
Hiruzen
Hebi Sasuke
Base Jiraiya
Kakuzu
Killer B [Base]
Deidara
4th Kazekage
Sakura
Choji
Konan
Kitsuchi
6G Lee
Hiashi



Tier 13

Kimimaro
Mifune
Temari
Zabuza
Hidan
Neji
Sai
Dodai
Kankuro
Asuma
Chiyo
Jugo
Suigetsu
Darui
Yamato

Why was the other one closed?

I agree with the low tiers. I get lost with rikudo power ups. I still don't get why you put Toneri one tier below Juubito when you argued with me that toneri was a lot stronger.

 

[KidGamer65]

Why was the other one closed?

I agree with the low tiers. I get lost with rikudo power ups. I still don't get why you put Toneri one tier below Juubito when you argued with me that toneri was a lot stronger.

No idea.

I changed my mind. Toneri's feats aren't even that spectacular.

1. Why should I pretend ems madara has senjutsu? He lacks the ability and so did gai but gai still performed. Ems madara has kurama.

Because we are ranking power here. Madara being able to negate Ninjutsu doesn't make him stronger than all Ninjutsu users. Give Konohamaru the ability to negate Ninjutsu and he'd rape Madara, yet Hashirama would stomp him. Is Konohamaru stronger than Madara who is equal to Hashirama?

But forget I said Madara has Senjutsu, just imagine he can get around the ability to negate Ninjutsu.

And Gai didn't even perform. Madara was about to no sell all his attacks with the Gudo Dama before Minato and Kakashi made the orbs a non factor.

2. Yes it was both speed and power, however both SM madara and ems madara lack speed and probably reaction to someone on a JJ level.

1. They are nowhere near as fast as Obito, but Obito can't even blitz. EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto can track and react to Obito. EMS Madara is superior to Sasuke in every way, so he'd easily track Obito and if Madara tries to blitz then Susanoo would go up. SM Hashirama is equal or superior to Madara in reaction speed, but he wouldn't physically react to create Mokuton unless he's far enough away. (Tobirama was able to react to Obito by tagging him btw)

2. EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto were able to tag Obito w/ Kurama and Susanoo. So PS from Madara and SS/Mokujin from Hashirama which are far faster than Naruto or Sasuke's Avatars in the striking department would be able to land hits on Madara too.

As to your question, given only a staff and flight is doubtful if he could break either of their defenses. However neither should be allowed to use those defenses nor push jj madara to being defensive since they're basically too slow. Oh and JJ madara most likely won't die due to regeneration regardless.

That all depends on the distance. If Madara is close enough, he blitzes. Doesn't change the fact that he couldn't overpower them, thus Hashi and Madara at full power would outperform 8G Gai if they were put in the same situation as him.

And if Madara was almost killed by having half of his body blown off, PS cutting him apart and SS pounding him would kill him.

I still fail to see how 8th gate gai is the same tier as either of them when he beats both imo.

If he blitzes he'll beat both, otherwise if their megazords come out he might die against Hashirama, and he definitely dies against Madara. He can't penetrate PS without Night Guy, and even then he probably wouldn't even get past it and damage Madara, so he'd die in the end.

 

[V h o]

Because we are ranking power here. Madara being able to negate Ninjutsu doesn't make him stronger than all Ninjutsu users. Give Konohamaru the ability to negate Ninjutsu and he'd rape Madara, yet Hashirama would stomp him. Is Konohamaru stronger than Madara who is equal to Hashirama?

I thought you were ranking overall ability as in who can fight who on similar grounds not who had the biggest nuke/attack. I never brought up oomuygoudon or whatever it is called for the record.

But forget I said Madara has Senjutsu, just imagine he can get around the ability to negate Ninjutsu.

Can he though? Otherwise it's his taijutsu.....which is supposed to fend off JJ madara off equally to 8th gate gai.......

And Gai didn't even perform. Madara was about to no sell all his attacks with the Gudo Dama before Minato and Kakashi made the orbs a non factor.

Lol he did perform well, don't sell 8th gate gai short. Everyone else was wrecked.

1. They are nowhere near as fast as Obito, but Obito can't even blitz. EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto can track and react to Obito. EMS Madara is superior to Sasuke in every way, so he'd easily track Obito and if Madara tries to blitz then Susanoo would go up. SM Hashirama is equal or superior to Madara in reaction speed, but he wouldn't physically react to create Mokuton unless he's far enough away. (Tobirama was able to react to Obito by tagging him btw)

If I'm not mistaken JJ madara is better than JJ obito, so why bring an inferior character up? Didn't tobirama have to be destroyed to "react" to Obito? Also didn't obito fail to react to FTG while madara did twice?

2. EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto were able to tag Obito w/ Kurama and Susanoo. So PS from Madara and SS/Mokujin from Hashirama which are far faster than Naruto or Sasuke's Avatars in the striking department would be able to land hits on Madara too.

I still don't see this comparison of an inferior character (obito) to a superior character (madara) or why it's relevant.

That all depends on the distance. If Madara is close enough, he blitzes. Doesn't change the fact that he couldn't overpower them, thus Hashi and Madara at full power would outperform 8G Gai if they were put in the same situation as him.

Distance is situational and madara still flew x distance to kakashi before he could really react to madara. kakashi isn't ems madara or hashirama but all 3 lack rikudou chakra or something to enhance their speed comparable to 8th gate.

And if Madara was almost killed by having half of his body blown off, PS cutting him apart and SS pounding him would kill him.

Potentially yes. But again those shouldn't hit someone who is so much faster than them and can fly. I have to keep mentioning how speed is a huge factor.

If he blitzes he'll beat both, otherwise if their megazords come out he might die against Hashirama, and he definitely dies against Madara. He can't penetrate PS without Night Guy, and even then he probably wouldn't even get past it and damage Madara, so he'd die in the end.

Better chance of him blitzing since he's faster. He makes his move first, not slower character(s).

Edit
I still feel 8th gate gai is closer to jubito or base RSM naruto than ems madara with kurama. If anything a gap between them but gai still seems higher than that tier.

 

[LuckyMan]

Based on what exactly? Lol. If it was in the movie guide that's information Kishimoto is giving to the viewers. Whether it was said in the movie or not is irrelevant. Whether or not you know how Sasuke can match Naruto or not is also irrelevant since Kishimoto has stated the truth already.

Based on it hasn't been proven Kishi wrote it. Several editors work on a movie. It could have been written by anyone. Whatever guide you're referring to (I know nothing of it) could have been written by anyone so I'm not about to blindly accept Sasuke gained the power to stalemate and even more powerful Naruto without the Bijuu this time when the only shred of evidence didn't even come from the film, but from some promotional thing or whatever that's highly circumstantial.

 

[King Of Pop]

-There isn't a tier of power between Kakashi and Sasuke. And he's easily stronger than anyone in the tier below. Easily as in none of those fights go above mid diff.

-Toneri's strongest attack was tanked by Naruto without his Avatar. Anyone in the above tier would buttrape him. Not to mention anyone in that tier would buttrape a Naruto w/o RSM or his Avatar regardless of having Hagoromo's chakra or not.

Adult Sasuke and Adult Naruto are in the same tier because they were stated to be equal in the movie guide. RSM Naruto is a tier above RG Sasuke because RSM Naruto can take in the massive amount of NE that VoTE 2 Sasuke canonically needed Bijuu to match.

And don't push it. Kakashi is as high as he'll ever get.

so basically you didnt rank bijju ps sasuke? because there is a huge gulf in power between him and kakashi who would get slaughtered with ease and he is on par with the naruto version at bold.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Reported for language upon first word.
Happy New Years.

 

[Mishima]

- RSM Naruto not being in the same tier as RG Sasuke makes no sense when both were pretty much stalemating each other throughout the whole battle. Being able to take in NE still won't justify it either because even with the NE boost he'll still lose to some/if not all of the people on that tier.

- DMS Kakashi being in the same tier as RG Sasuke is a bit of a reach

Everything else seems fine.

 

[-Akuma-]

- RSM Naruto not being in the same tier as RG Sasuke makes no sense when both were pretty much stalemating each other throughout the whole battle. Being able to take in NE still won't justify it either because even with the NE boost he'll still lose to some/if not all of the people on that tier.

- DMS Kakashi being in the same tier as RG Sasuke is a bit of a reach

Everything else seems fine.

Who is Vote 2 Naruto losing badly to in that tier?

 

[Mishima]

Who is Vote 2 Naruto losing badly to in that tier?

Never said he'll badly lose.
- Adult Sasuke
- Adult Naruto
- Hagaromo
- Hamura
- Fused Momoshiki
Are the people he would lose to. Dual Rinnegan JJ Madara would only win due to immortality.

 

[KidGamer65]

I thought you were ranking overall ability as in who can fight who on similar grounds not who had the biggest nuke/attack. I never brought up oomuygoudon or whatever it is called for the record.

Huh?

If I was ranking who had the biggest nuke then I obviously wouldn't be putting Gai anywhere near where he is, nor would I be comparing Gai and a hypothetical performance by Madara/Hashirama to Gai. Itachi wouldn't be anywhere near where he is, and Killer B would be far above almost everyone in his team.

Can he though? Otherwise it's his taijutsu.....which is supposed to fend off JJ madara off equally to 8th gate gai.......

I literally just explained why it's irrelevant that he can't actually get around JJ's ability to negate Ninjutsu.

Lol he did perform well, don't sell 8th gate gai short. Everyone else was wrecked.

He performed well with support. Without support the match would've ended with his death while Madara would only sustain mild injuries.

If I'm not mistaken JJ madara is better than JJ obito, so why bring an inferior character up? Didn't tobirama have to be destroyed to "react" to Obito? Also didn't obito fail to react to FTG while madara did twice?

The gap between their physical stats isn't enough to get past the fact that EMS Sasuke, who is not as fast as Madara, can track him. And no, Obito reacted to Hiraishin every single time it was used against him.

-Reacted when BM Naruto and BM Minato teleported to him for example. The only time he got caught is when he tried to use Kamui instead of simply countering Naruto's Rasengan.

Distance is situational and madara still flew x distance to kakashi before he could really react to madara. kakashi isn't ems madara or hashirama but all 3 lack rikudou chakra or something to enhance their speed comparable to 8th gate.

Distance being situational proves my point as we are ranking strength here, and the rest isn't relevant as they don't need to be as fast as Gai.

Potentially yes. But again those shouldn't hit someone who is so much faster than them and can fly. I have to keep mentioning how speed is a huge factor.

You keep mentioning it's a huge factor yet you've failed to accurately explain why.

-You keep saying blitz when blitz says nothing about their strength.
-You say they can't hit him, even though two people who are far inferior were able to tag Obito. So unless a feat the gap between Madara's speed and Obito's speed anywhere near the gap between Madara's PS and Sasuke's enhanced v3 Susanoo, your point doesn't stand.

You don't even have an argument for him overpowering Madara/Hashirama which is the main point of comparing them.

Better chance of him blitzing since he's faster. He makes his move first, not slower character(s).

Irrelevant. Being faster doesn't mean you'll blitz nor is blitzing relevant. If I used your logic, Ay would be much higher than he actually he is since he can blitz and kill most people in his tier and above before they can do anything about it.

Edit
I still feel 8th gate gai is closer to jubito or base RSM naruto than ems madara with kurama. If anything a gap between them but gai still seems higher than that tier.

Nah. He's fine where he is.

Based on it hasn't been proven Kishi wrote it. Several editors work on a movie. It could have been written by anyone. Whatever guide you're referring to (I know nothing of it) could have been written by anyone so I'm not about to blindly accept Sasuke gained the power to stalemate and even more powerful Naruto without the Bijuu this time when the only shred of evidence didn't even come from the film, but from some promotional thing or whatever that's highly circumstantial.

Lol stop.

You must be registered for see links

This is the guidebook for the movie, and this was written by Kishimoto. Editors work on the Manga too, are we going to ignore it as Kishimoto's word too? The rest doesn't matter. If the movie guide states that Sasuke and Naruto are equal, they are equal and that outweighs any opinion a fan has.

so basically you didnt rank bijju ps sasuke? because there is a huge gulf in power between him and kakashi who would get slaughtered with ease and he is on par with the naruto version at bold.

Lmfao, I just noticed that I forgot to rank Bijuu PS Sasuke. But yeah, if I did he'd be w/ RSM Naruto and the adult versions.

- RSM Naruto not being in the same tier as RG Sasuke makes no sense when both were pretty much stalemating each other throughout the whole battle. Being able to take in NE still won't justify it either because even with the NE boost he'll still lose to some/if not all of the people on that tier.

- DMS Kakashi being in the same tier as RG Sasuke is a bit of a reach

Everything else seems fine.

-What you are saying doesn't make sense. Using Naruto and Sasuke stalemating w/ Naruto only using a standard Bijuu Dama doesn't put them at the same level. Saying they belong in the same tier makes no sense when the whole planet's Nature Energy is a power up that pushes Naruto to a completely different level. Whether or not he loses to the rest of the people in that tier is irrelevant as tiers rank general level, and he's in their general level.

-Not really. Him not being as strong as Sasuke doesn't put him on the level of people he'd obliterate in combat.

 

[Mishima]

-What you are saying doesn't make sense. Using Naruto and Sasuke stalemating w/ Naruto only using a standard Bijuu Dama doesn't put them at the same level. Saying they belong in the same tier makes no sense when the whole planet's Nature Energy is a power up that pushes Naruto to a completely different level. Whether or not he loses to the rest of the people in that tier is irrelevant as tiers rank general level, and he's in their general level.

-Not really. Him not being as strong as Sasuke doesn't put him on the level of people he'd obliterate in combat.

Hmm, fair enough. Then at least include BPS Sasuke in that tier.

 

[KidGamer65]

Hmm, fair enough. Then at least include BPS Sasuke in that tier.

Done.

 

[V h o]

Huh?

If I was ranking who had the biggest nuke then I obviously wouldn't be putting Gai anywhere near where he is, nor would I be comparing Gai and a hypothetical performance by Madara/Hashirama to Gai. Itachi wouldn't be anywhere near where he is, and Killer B would be far above almost everyone in his team.

Nevermind thought you were talking about power as your reasoning for the tiers.

I literally just explained why it's irrelevant that he can't actually get around JJ's ability to negate Ninjutsu.

Was that the konohamaru example? Because that was wrong, ninjas still have taijutsu to beat someone who absorbs ninjutsu.

He performed well with support. Without support the match would've ended with his death while Madara would only sustain mild injuries.



The gap between their physical stats isn't enough to get past the fact that EMS Sasuke, who is not as fast as Madara, can track him. And no, Obito reacted to Hiraishin every single time it was used against him.

So are you saying the gap between sasuke/naruto and madara/hashirama is equal to the gap between juubito and juudara to make these assumptions that ems madara/sm hashirama can react to juudara?

If so I'll probably just concede this, since no feat shows the gap being significant enough.

-Reacted when BM Naruto and BM Minato teleported to him for example. The only time he got caught is when he tried to use Kamui instead of simply countering Naruto's Rasengan.

Distance being situational proves my point as we are ranking strength here, and the rest isn't relevant as they don't need to be as fast as Gai.


You keep mentioning it's a huge factor yet you've failed to accurately explain why.

-You keep saying blitz when blitz says nothing about their strength.
-You say they can't hit him, even though two people who are far inferior were able to tag Obito. So unless a feat the gap between Madara's speed and Obito's speed anywhere near the gap between Madara's PS and Sasuke's enhanced v3 Susanoo, your point doesn't stand.

You don't even have an argument for him overpowering Madara/Hashirama which is the main point of comparing them.

Irrelevant. Being faster doesn't mean you'll blitz nor is blitzing relevant. If I used your logic, Ay would be much higher than he actually he is since he can blitz and kill most people in his tier and above before they can do anything about it.

Who exactly can ay blitz and kill before they react or do anything about it in a tier above him? SM Kabuto? Killer bee? Anyone else?

Nah. He's fine where he is.

I guess.

 

[KidGamer65]

Nevermind thought you were talking about power as your reasoning for the tiers.

K.

Was that the konohamaru example? Because that was wrong, ninjas still have taijutsu to beat someone who absorbs ninjutsu.

That is irrelevant as measuring someone's strength by only their Taijutsu makes no sense.

So are you saying the gap between sasuke/naruto and madara/hashirama is equal to the gap between juubito and juudara to make these assumptions that ems madara/sm hashirama can react to juudara?

If so I'll probably just concede this, since no feat shows the gap being significant enough.

Exact point I'm making here.

Who exactly can ay blitz and kill before they react or do anything about it in a tier above him? SM Kabuto? Killer bee? Anyone else?

-Kabuto
-Orochimaru
-MS Sasuke
-Killer B
-SM Naruto
-Mu

Is he leagues above these people too? I hope not.



I guess.[/QUOTE]

 

[V h o]

K.



That is irrelevant as measuring someone's strength by only their Taijutsu makes no sense.

Gai goes by that....Anything that can get pass that negation is the point.

Exact point I'm making here.

Well I have nothing left to say on that then.

-Kabuto
-Orochimaru
-MS Sasuke
-Killer B
-SM Naruto
-Mu
Is he leagues above these people too? I hope not.

Some of those people can get pass his speed. SM sensing for naruto, perhap kabuto and sasuke didn't seem to struggle with Ay speed so it wasn't the speed difference I was assuming with juudara or gai.

 

[ARGUS]

-There isn't a tier of power between Kakashi and Sasuke.

man with half of rikudos chakra is atleast a tier above the man with recycled rikudo chakra from a juubiless obito.

And he's easily stronger than anyone in the tier below. Easily as in none of those fights go above mid diff.

NO hes not.
INdra and Ashura would obliterate him. in NO way is he a tier above them.
Their rikudo chakra should be far more potent than kakashis and should also be more in quantity,

Honestly, given JJ madara w/Shinjus portrayal, kakashi isnt a tier above him either despite the fact that he beats him mid diff.
hagoromo stated that he was apporoaching his power in that state, and naruto called him a fool for thinking that he would be fighting him alone.

-Toneri's strongest attack was tanked by Naruto without his Avatar. Anyone in the above tier would buttrape him. Not to mention anyone in that tier would buttrape a Naruto w/o RSM or his Avatar regardless of having Hagoromo's chakra or not.

Not willing to argue for toneri tbh.
but base naruto w/o RSM avatar gets one shotted by EMS madara and Hashirama as well.
he also gets one shotted by 8th gate guy. so he should move down based on your criteria