Thoughts on War Arc Power Inflation?

[iNotorious]

I'm saying it should have never reached that point to begin with. Power levels should have stayed more grounded.

As it is now, it's a manga about ninjas with two characters feeling like DBZ inserts.

Does it matter at the end of the day? Things change, take a look at part 1, when we thought tsunade was one of the strongest person in the anime, over the time it changed and why?

At least they didn't get to get to Is this a zombie level.

Each arc introduces us to a new villain, of course stronger than the one before, therefore, the main characters should get also stronger each arc. Plus there's no rule that says, each arc you only get 1 power up.

 

[Bling Kai]

Thank you for pointing out more flaws with this series I thought I was the only one who I noticed these particular ones but then again I know how writing works.

 

[iNotorious]

Yeah, but their power is still incredibly weak.I mean, Raditz could casually solo Narutoverse.

And eu could practically solo DBZ verse.

 

[Black Wolf]

Does it matter at the end of the day? Things change, take a look at part 1, when we thought tsunade was one of the strongest person in the anime, over the time it changed and why?

I'm addressing why it hurts the story.

At least they didn't get to get to Is this a zombie level.

It's not the level that bothers me, but the disparity between the two main characters and everyone else in the world. Again, this thread is focusing on the manga's end state and Naruto's ascension to Hokage and how it feels cheapened due to the power disparity. It's all in the OP.

I feel like you are addressing an argument that I am not even making here.

Each arc introduces us to a new villain, of course stronger than the one before, therefore, the main characters should get also stronger each arc. Plus there's no rule that says, each arc you only get 1 power up.

Nowhere did I say there was a rule that dictated you get 1 power up per arc.

I stated that the trivialization of the entire cast barring Naruto and Sasuke hurts the story, and the disparity between them and the next strongest guy is massive enough to damage the believability of the world. It's detailed in the OP.

You make a compelling argument, but I don't really know what you're arguing against because I never actually made any of the points you're addressing.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

I stopped consistently reading Naruto when Madara summoned a couple of meteors on the battlefield. Since then I've only read several chapters. Needless to say the power levels rose too far and the excitement of reading Naruto reached an all time low

 

[Bling Kai]

I'm saying it should have never reached that point to begin with. Power levels should have stayed more grounded.

As it is now, it's a manga about ninjas with two characters feeling like DBZ inserts.

DBZ inaerts in what way? If you mean in terms of power then I have to tell you you are wrong they are barely even late Dragon ball level in terms of power scaling.

 

[iNotorious]

I'm addressing why it hurts the story.



It's not the level that bothers me, but the disparity between the two main characters and everyone else in the world. Again, this thread is focusing on the manga's end state and Naruto's ascension to Hokage and how it feels cheapened due to the power disparity. It's all in the OP.

Fair enough.

I feel like you are addressing an argument that I am not even making here.

Yeah the war arc changed both of them to jesus but does it even matter? It's not like they're going to use their power against other people unless they're a treat against the ninja world.

Nowhere did I say there was a rule that dictated you get 1 power up per arc.

I stated that the trivialization of the entire cast barring Naruto and Sasuke hurts the story, and the disparity between them and the next strongest guy is massive enough to damage the believability of the world. It's detailed in the OP.

You make a compelling argument, but I don't really know what you're arguing against because I never actually made any of the points you're addressing.

This story is about a child trying to save a friend, the whole thing becoming a hokage was moved to a side line.

 

[iNotorious]

I stopped consistently reading Naruto when Madara summoned a couple of meteors on the battlefield. Since then I've only read several chapters. Needless to say the power levels rose too far and the excitement of reading Naruto reached an all time low

I would like to know what the OP wanted for this.

How would naruto and the others be able to go against demi gods, someone who was throwing meteors like there's no tomorrow.

The main character plot was the only thing 'reasonable' at this point.

 

[The8thGateBeast]

Just to clarify, I'm fine with them being the strongest.

What I take issue with is the extent to which they are stronger. For example, who would be the strongest in the world after the two of them? Probably Killer Bee (out of the living people), and even at his best he doesn't hold a candle to the things we saw Naruto and Sasuke pull off at VoTE. If the gap was smaller, it would have made for a far more believable world.



I agree.

The War Arc was only two days. It started with Naruto on that island, where he didn't even know KCM yet. Over just two days, he learned KCM --> BM ---> BSM ----> Rikudo BSM -----> Ashura Mode. As I said earlier, that's like Goku learning Kaioken, SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3, and SSJ4 all in one fight. The progression should have been more gradual, which would have made it more believable in my opinion.

Kcm and Bm where a power Naruto already had considering he was the 9 tails jinjuriki it wasn't a problem he could master those forms so quick since it's just chakra. Bsm is combining two powers he already had so again it's understandable. The only power I'll say was a bit of a stretch was riduko mode.
The comparison you made with dbz makes no sense..... it's more like Kaiokenx2 > Kaiokenx10 > Kaiokenx20 > ssj 1

Which makes more sense right?

 

[ninjarasengan]

I'm addressing why it hurts the story.



It's not the level that bothers me, but the disparity between the two main characters and everyone else in the world. Again, this thread is focusing on the manga's end state and Naruto's ascension to Hokage and how it feels cheapened due to the power disparity. It's all in the OP.

I feel like you are addressing an argument that I am not even making here.



Nowhere did I say there was a rule that dictated you get 1 power up per arc.

I stated that the trivialization of the entire cast barring Naruto and Sasuke hurts the story, and the disparity between them and the next strongest guy is massive enough to damage the believability of the world. It's detailed in the OP.

You make a compelling argument, but I don't really know what you're arguing against because I never actually made any of the points you're addressing.

What does any of that have to do with the 'believability' of the world?

 

[Opiuchus05]

That's how it usually is with main characters and side characters in most manga
People need to remember that they're reading a shouen manga

 

[Lord Tywin]

I like this thread.
But it was bound to happen when on the first chapter we had Kyuubi, who was said to be able to flatten mountains and create tsunamis with his tails. Naruto was bound to control kirama since chapter 1. The manga obviously needed people to hang with that kind of power to not make it boring.

I would say Naruto should have been more about speed rather than blowing up countries. Ninjas are supposed to do their jobs in a flash, not showing off their DC.

A good thing is that Bleach and OP wankers can STFU now, and I like OP more than Naruto.

 

[Bling Kai]

After reading your whole post I must say I misunderstood what you where saying and you where not talking about the shows writing you where just voicing your opinion. An opinion that I mostly share with you.

 

[Xlad]

I actually agree. Especially on the power growth inflation that has happened in just two arcs. In terms of power and abilities, the Hokage was cheapened by the fact that Hiruzen and Tsunade were previous Hokages. Not only this, Naruto wasn't just far above everyone else. Hell, even his Base form now destroys the majority of everyone that's alive in the damn verse. Let alone SM, KCM/BM, and RSM. NV may be at true peace. But the idea that Naruto can easily wipe off any potential adversity from the face of the planet is just to contradicting.

I'm actually his fan, but the power gap between him and everyone else is too ridiculous. I mean Bleach for one is far more tolerable in terms of power gaps. That's because even if power levels are substantially lower, there is a much more tolerable gap between Bleach's main and supporting casts.

 

[NineSNS]

When the villains keep escalating in power, the MC's have to get powered up to defeat them.

Too many rapid fire villain takeovers after Obito. Specifically, one too many.

And as as far as becoming Hokage, it did seem insignificant. Naruto became Hokage during the 699-700 timeskip, as though it was an event not worthy of panel time to show.

 

[Icelerate]

Well I agree to some extent but I don't mind OP characters on the tier of Hashirama, BSM Naruto, etc. Though I lost interest in the manga once the Juubi was revived so I dislike the Rikudo level nonsense in the manga.

 

[arv993]

I. Disclaimer

First thing I'm going to ask is to please put all bias aside; this isn't a character discussion, but a "Naruto Universe" discussion, or rather, the state that the Naruto Universe is in at the end of the series. So please, do not devolve this thread into "my favorite character" flame wars.

Note that everything below is my opinion. Feel free to disagree and post reasons why. This is a discussion, not a debate; I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. That being said . . .

II. Why Isolated Power Inflation 'Sucks'

In my opinion, power inflation was not done well in this manga. Why? Because it was isolated power inflation, or in other words, it only applied to Naruto and Sasuke. These two, at the end of the manga, are individually stronger than the rest of the world combined (not counting each other).

Why is this a bad thing? Because, as the war arc proved, it trivializes all the supporting cast. When you've got two planet busters, what is a 'mere ninja' supposed to do to compare? And I'm not just talking about Jonin fighters here. Actual Kage level fighters - people like Ei, Onoki, Gaara, and at the end, even Hashirama, look like ants compared to them.

The above fact, in my opinion, hurts the manga's "world state." Why? Because the idea of achieving peace at the end is cheapened. The other villages don't really have a choice whether or not to be peaceful; they can either be peaceful, or get nuked by one of Naruto's shadow clones while he is taking his family out for dinner. Oh, and guess what? The other strongest guy (Sasuke), is loyal to Konoha too.

III. Power Inflation Cheapens Naruto's Dream

Yes, being a Kage doesn't mean you're the strongest in the village. Tsunade wasn't the strongest in her village. Raikage wasn't the strongest in his village. You get the idea . . . but this is a Shonen, and the position of 'Kage' is usually attributed with strength. In fact, in the very first chapter, Naruto attributed becoming a Hokage with becoming the strongest. The two were one and the same.

Why does this hurt Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage? Because, in my opinion, the moment Naruto becomes Hokage should have been the moment he surpassed those before him; it should have felt like a goal finally met. But when Naruto became Hokage, I didn't really care. Why? Because he already long surpassed the strongest Hokage half a dozen power ups ago. Becoming Hokage became a worthless title when people like Sharingan-less Kakashi, Tsunade, and Hiruzen held the seat before him - people, who compared to his strength, are not even ants but microscopic bacteria.

IV. What Could Have Been Done?

Obviously too late to change it now, but what do I think could have been done?

For one, I don't think power levels should have ever reached Nagato level. Casually nuking villages was what started this whole fiasco. There should never have been a person able to take multiple Kage on without breaking a sweat (like Madara did). Fights should have been kept on a grounded level, with new strategies helping characters prevail rather than a brand new SSJ form appearing out of thin air every time they had a problem.

I also think Naruto and Sasuke's progression in the War Arc was ridiculously fast. To put it into DBZ terms . . . imagine in a single fight, Goku went from only knowing Kaioken to learning SSJ4. Because that's what happened here; in the span of two days, Naruto went from only knowing Sage Mode to KCM, then BM, then BSM, then Rikudo BSM, and then finally Ashura mode. Same thing with Sasuke, but with Mangekyo / Susano'o / Rinnegan related stuff instead. The pace should have been made more believable.

Naruto and Sasuke could still be the strongest people at the end . . . but not to the extent they are now. Not to the extent that one of their misdirected burps could kill someone. It should have been more controlled progression, in my opinion.

V. Discuss

Obviously, everything I said above is my opinion. I just wanted to see everyone's thoughts on power progression. Please put aside character infatuations here and just address the topic at hand. I

dude love your thread 100% agree.
and i LOLed at when u said naruto kiling everyone with clones while he gtakes his family to dinner becuz its true. naruto is more like a world leader becuz why the **** do all the kages matter in an actual conflict naruto through power has enough to dsetroy the ninja villages low diff and sasuke makes it only neg diff.

 

[Scorpianluvr]

I preferred Naruto Pre - Pain arc

 

[ARGUS]

the minute all these ass pull powerups began, and the worst of all hagoromo popping out of nowhere and giving naruto and sasuke his powerup was basically the end of the manga,
it just became ridiculous,
and the whole JJ story should have been finished once Juubito was defeated, madara shouldnt have gone that far, and god help the kaguya arc that was trash at its finest,

BSM form should have been the last and final powerup for naruto, it shouldve never went any more than that, whilst for sasuke either the EMS form or the rinnegan,

and like you said the worst of all was the time span in naruto and ssasukes growth, it just ruins the manga

 

[makosheva7]

The premise of the war arc is pretty exciting but these crazy powerups, like you said cheapen the whole message of the Naruto story. This one dude (numbers I think) made a sick video describing a pretty nice way to fix the war arc.