I guess you and Takos both have the same missing brain cells.Try reading the manga.Itachi wasn't looking at Sasuke,he was purposely looking behind Sasuke, which is why the black flames never engulf Sasuke.Are did you two morons forget that Itachi wasn't really trying to kill Sasuke.
I doubt he stands a chance against itachie, against sasuke since he was kinda his teacher at a point he has a chance hell maybe could even beat him. you have to look at your oppenent to attack him and since by just looking at itachie he would get caught in his genjutsu. you bring up other valid points but dont forget kakashi doesn't have a load of chakra just like itachie. in my opinion itachie would overwhelm kakashi.
I guess you and Takos both have the same missing brain cells.Try reading the manga.Itachi wasn't looking at Sasuke,he was purposely looking behind Sasuke, which is why the black flames never engulf Sasuke.Are did you two morons forget that Itachi wasn't really trying to kill Sasuke.
Kakashi is boos and everyone exept Madara,obito and Naruto can be deafeated by Kakashi If he uses his brains as he always dose,did u saw Kakashi Deafeted whitout oponents victims?NEVER!!!!!!.
You haven't understood what i was saying. I do know Danzo countered it with a Mokuton technique. It's what i've said, but what i'm saying is that he was surprised by the speed. The fact he says "there is no time for seals" proves that. Notice that using the Mokuton technique, he wasn't even sure to survive. That's why he said "did i made it?" or something like that. It was too fast that he only did what he could in order to hope to survive. But after that, now knowing Sasuke will target him again with that fast arrows because Karin was able to see through him, he directly used handseals for Izanagi to protect himself. You say after that "Danzo got pierced by arrows even knowing their speed", but you forget that he was under Izanagi, already protected by the jutsu, he had no need to worry about how dodging the arrows. In the contrary, all what he was worrying about was to take the opportunity while he is untouchable thanks to Izanagi to actually find his way through Susanoo and finish Sasuke
I'm not underestimating the speed of arrows, and i'm not saying Kakashi has the speed to dodge it while it's launched. What i'm saying is that he has the speed to dodge or protect himself before they are launched like Danzo did with the handseals of Izanagi for example. Like i've said what you greatly forget concerning arrows is that after launching arrows, Sasuke needs sometime to rest. On the pic you posted you can even notice that Sasuke was struggling and coughing up blood. Those are risks you are forgetting greatly Already prepared, he can use the doton wall which takes practically no handseals:
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Danzo in comparison managed to use 3 or 4handseals even before Sasuke think about using the arrows:
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And i think that Danzo is even slower in handseals than Kakashi, sometimes you don't even see his handseals
He can also hide underground directly what again takes practically no handseals(we don't even see the handseal against Itachis katon):
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He can also use the kage bunshin technique which only takes one handseal in order to cover himself and find an opening
He can also attack himself, what you also forget because you seems to think that only Sasuke can attack and Kakashi will only be there defending himself. With suiton techniques for example, we have seen that Sasuke even inside Susanoo had difficulties to handle:
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And Kakashi has shown powerful suiton techniques especially if they fight in a place where there is water like they were even fighting:
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He can also actually aim with kamui, a technique against that even Sasuke is probably defenseless. Furthermore, if he even combines it with a kage bunshin to feint Sasuke while hiding underground safely, it can quickly become a deadly combo
I'm going to highlight in red things that my very first post already showed you counters for and in blue things i'n going to counter in my post.
I already showed you that Sasuke now possess that correct Eye's to counet Clones:
I see that their are people with the notion that Kakashi could cause a diversion using his clones. The Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan gives the user the ability to see through clones. This conclusion can be made clearly based off Madara, a full developed Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan user's words here:
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He states that with his eye techniques he could see through Hashirama's Wood clones which are derived from shadow clones but are twice as complex requiring 2 Nature Transformations. It is a known fact that Madara obtained the Rinnegan after his battle with Hashirama and only possessed Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.
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I showed you a Manga picture of Sasuke Susanoo Arrow piercing clean through the 1st Hokages Mokuton. This is much more dense and complex than that of Kakashi's Doton Wall.
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The Mokuton barely deflect it consider the distance between Danzo and the Arrow still, no way it is possible that the Doton Wall would deflect it.
Your argument on the Suiton destroying the Susanoo. Even if you want to attempt to use this scene to counter Sasuke's Susanoo you still have to take into consideration that Kabuto's Suiton is still more powerful that Kakashi which would mean showing an image of Kabuto breaching the Susanoo with Suiton does not mean that Kakashi could. We have been informed that Sage Mode increases the power of your Ninjutsu:
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Another Rebuttal would be that It was the susanoo ribcage. For the Susanoo Arrow to even be used he needs to be in the final form of Susanoo which we have not seen breached by Suiton.
Yes, Kakashi can go underground but Sasuke has shown feats to see the chakra of his oppoent through Solid objects:
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He could tell Kakashi is underground by spotting his Chakra underground.
Susanoo Arrow can easily pierce the ground.
im not any of those things, im just saying in my eyes kakashi cant beat itachie. it doesn't mean he wouldn't put up a fight. itachie trumps kakashi in just about every category. all this talk about kamui is instant and what not is ridiculous he has to focus on the target or area he is trying to warp. kamui cant counter genjutsu. this fight would be two genius's going at it it will be close but i think itachie comes out on top every time. IMO if obito/tobi feared itachie that says a lot.
As for Yata mirror... it won't protect Itachi from Kamui, because it's transparent - Kakashi can see through Yata and focus his sight on Itachi, behind Yata.
The Yata Mirror was equipped to Itachi's Susanoo, in its left hand and, is considered one of the three sacred treasures. It is said to be endowed with all nature transformations and as such changes its own characteristics depending on those of the attack it receives, making the attack entirely ineffective. Zetsu claimed that this, combined with the Sword of Totsuka held in its right hand, essentially made Itachi's Susanoo invincible.[2]
The Yata Mirror was equipped to Itachi's Susanoo, in its left hand and, is considered one of the three sacred treasures. It is said to be endowed with all nature transformations and as such changes its own characteristics depending on those of the attack it receives, making the attack entirely ineffective. Zetsu claimed that this, combined with the Sword of Totsuka held in its right hand, essentially made Itachi's Susanoo invincible.[2]
thank you for pointing out the obvious looks like i "accidentally" forgot to erase the stuff to make sure i didnt C and P this. if look here:be
endowed with all nature transformations and as such changes its own characteristics depending on those of the attack it receives,
making the attack entirely ineffective now does it say only physical i dont see that there untill it shows if his yata can be "Destroyed" kamui is as they say in pokemon Unaffected.
thank you for pointing out the obvious looks like i "accidentally" forgot to erase the stuff to make sure i didnt C and P this. if look here:be
endowed with all nature transformations and as such changes its own characteristics depending on those of the attack it receives,
making the attack entirely ineffective now does it say only physical i dont see that there untill it shows if his yata can be "Destroyed" kamui is as they say in pokemon Unaffected.
Thats all meaningless. Yata mirror can tank attacks that hits it directly, thats no factor with Kamui, since it would appear behind the shield. As long as Yata is transparent, it gives no protection to Kamui. Its the same with Amaterasu, since both jutsus appears, not travel to the target.
Kamui and Amaterasu appears in the place where user is focusing his eyesight. Which means: as long as target is visible Kamui/Ama will appear on him. Yata is obviously transparent, we all could see Itachi standing behing it, which means that it gives no protection againt these s/t jutsus.
but
then it would be behind the mirror and not on itachi who can move away from it kamui targets a single person or object thus it would attack yata or susanoo itself and not itachi since thus K would have to focus on itachi instead of yata but at the time while kamui is being activated itachi can strike with his totsuka basically they might end up killing each other but note here he can then just in this form enter his susanoo and avoid it and we all know K cant use right away after using it the 1st time
Most fanboyish fodder I ever heard. How can you seriously say itachi is better at all these things? Kakashi has over 1000 jutsu and 4 element types. You have nothing to back up your claims, absolutely nothing. Garbage post.
fanboyish.... lmao.... i bash uchiha's more than any other character in this series.... this is wat i depect from wat ive seen of the series... and ur lil kakashi skill list is why i gave him knowledge advantage... can u really argue any of the others.... u trying to tell me that kakahsi is stronger than itachi physically, no... kakashi has more stamina, no.... kakashi uses genjutsu better, no... taijutsu was a close one but i still beleive itachi is a lil stronger but not much if at all.... there's is no arguements about any of these... yes kakahsi has genjutsu's but they are low lvl to the point he only uses them on low ranking nobodies and civilians compared itachi's ending almost every one of his fights with them... its been well stated that uchiha stamina is beter than kakahsi's.... speed and taijutsu is close and i ll leave it at that... and kakahsi has ninjutsu knowledge for is extensive list, and after reviewing, ill even say kakashi uses jutsu a lil better but not much as they both use the same strategy, fight with clones in close and use devestating techs from a safe distance... i dont see anything fanboyish about these as they are as apparent as day to me... i hate uchiha's but kakashi is not on par with itachi... can he win... with a miracle 1out of 10 times maybe....
I already showed you that Sasuke now possess that correct Eye's to counet Clones:
I see that their are people with the notion that Kakashi could cause a diversion using his clones. The Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan gives the user the ability to see through clones. This conclusion can be made clearly based off Madara, a full developed Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan user's words here:
He never said it was his EMS which helped him to see through Hashiramas clones. He only talked about his eye techniques. You forget he was fighting Hashirama even without getting EMS. Do you think he wasn't able to see through Hashiramas clones at that moment? Also you compare Madara to Sasuke, but it doesn't work like that. You can have same techniques but not the same ability to use them. Both Itachi and Sasuke have MS, both of them have tsukuyomi. Does it mean that Sasuke is as skilled with tsukuyomi as Itachi is? Obviously not. You also compare EMS as if all of them have the same abilities. Both Sasuke and Shisui have MS, do they have the same abilities? Both Sasuke and Obito have MS. Do they have the same abilities? Both Itachi and Shisui have MS. Do they have the same abilities? And so on. So no, it's not because Madara has some eyes power with his EMS that Sasuke has it.
What proves you even wrong is that he had a fight against Kabuto and we've seen that he wasn't able to notice who was the real Kabuto at the begin of the fight
I showed you a Manga picture of Sasuke Susanoo Arrow piercing clean through the 1st Hokages Mokuton. This is much more dense and complex than that of Kakashi's Doton Wall.
Sure but Kakashis doton wall is different. Doton especially has a different composure than a tree. The arrows only hardly managed to go through this:
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So i highly doubt it could go through that huge wall of doton which has a great size. And even if it manages, it will only be barely, and all what is needed is to stop or slow down the attack. It's not as if Kakashi will be hiding behind his wall during the entire fight
Your argument on the Suiton destroying the Susanoo. Even if you want to attempt to use this scene to counter Sasuke's Susanoo you still have to take into consideration that Kabuto's Suiton is still more powerful that Kakashi which would mean showing an image of Kabuto breaching the Susanoo with Suiton does not mean that Kakashi could. We have been informed that Sage Mode increases the power of your Ninjutsu:
First i'm not talking about destroying Susanoo since water can only hardly destroy something unless it's concentrated and comes at high speed, but water could manage to go through it. It's water after all, we've seen that Gaaras sand was able to go through Susanoo, and water is liquid, so difficult to get over it. Even protected by Susanoo, you can be overwhelmed very easily. Secondly the fact Sage Mode increases power of ninjutsu doesn't mean that every ninjutsu a sage uses is powerful. It's as if you were saying that Kabutos jutsu was as big as what Kisame usually uses. It's as if you were saying that because Jiraya can use big rasengan in Sage mode, he can't use small rasengans anymore(which is proved wrong). Same goes for Naruto. It's as if you were saying that because Jiraya uses Sage mode, his katons are as big or overwhelming as Madaras. If 2persons for example can use 2same suiton techniques(A and B), and B is far more stronger than A. It's as if you were saying that if one of them goes in SM and uses A technique, because it's boosted with Sage mode, it will become stronger than a B technique, which was stronger. That's a thing we can't say for sure. If the Sage in question is not good in doton techniques, it doesn't mean that if he enters in SM, his doton techniques will surprisingly surpass even a master in this category. Sage Mode also increases genjutsu, but Jiraya can't simply because he lacks genjutsu skills. Kakashi explained it himself during the fight against Kakuzu. It's really difficult to be able to use a high caliber of ninjutsu if it's not your original affinity, and you really must have the skill to manage to do so.
So don't think that because Kabuto has Sage Mode, his suiton attacks will suddenly becomes better than even masters in this element. I don't think it's said somewhere that Kabuto was a master in suiton jutsu, so it's highly possible that it was even only a basic technique.
You also forget the location. Kabuto used that suiton techniques in a place where there was no water, and it's stated in this manga that a suiton technique is more powerful in a place where there is water exactly like where Kakashi fought Zabuza for example, exactly where he met Sasuke last time
That's why it's not as simple as you think. If you want to compare the power of jutsus, just refer to what you're seeing and i think it's hard to believe that the small suiton jutsu Kabuto used against Sasuke is as powerful as a suiton suiryudan Kakashi used against Zabuza, not even gonna mentioning the vortex which has an insane range.
Another Rebuttal would be that It was the susanoo ribcage. For the Susanoo Arrow to even be used he needs to be in the final form of Susanoo which we have not seen breached by Suiton.
Sure he can see, like Itachi can also, but he still didn't managed to see through Kakashis KB when they met. Kakashi has Sharingan also, so it's easy for him to know that Sharingan can see color of chakra, but there is the timing in doing clones that you're greatly forgetting and that's where Kakashi is so good
He never said it was his EMS which helped him to see through Hashiramas clones. He only talked about his eye techniques. You forget he was fighting Hashirama even without getting EMS. Do you think he wasn't able to see through Hashiramas clones at that moment? Also you compare Madara to Sasuke, but it doesn't work like that. You can have same techniques but not the same ability to use them. Both Itachi and Sasuke have MS, both of them have tsukuyomi. Does it mean that Sasuke is as skilled with tsukuyomi as Itachi is? Obviously not. You also compare EMS as if all of them have the same abilities. Both Sasuke and Shisui have MS, do they have the same abilities? Both Sasuke and Obito have MS. Do they have the same abilities? Both Itachi and Shisui have MS. Do they have the same abilities? And so on. So no, it's not because Madara has some eyes power with his EMS that Sasuke has it.
What proves you even wrong is that he had a fight against Kabuto and we've seen that he wasn't able to notice who was the real Kabuto at the begin of the fight
Sure but Kakashis doton wall is different. Doton especially has a different composure than a tree. The arrows only hardly managed to go through this:
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So i highly doubt it could go through that huge wall of doton which has a great size. And even if it manages, it will only be barely, and all what is needed is to stop or slow down the attack. It's not as if Kakashi will be hiding behind his wall during the entire fight
First i'm not talking about destroying Susanoo since water can only hardly destroy something unless it's concentrated and comes at high speed, but water could manage to go through it. It's water after all, we've seen that Gaaras sand was able to go through Susanoo, and water is liquid, so difficult to get over it. Even protected by Susanoo, you can be overwhelmed very easily. Secondly the fact Sage Mode increases power of ninjutsu doesn't mean that every ninjutsu a sage uses is powerful. It's as if you were saying that Kabutos jutsu was as big as what Kisame usually uses. It's as if you were saying that because Jiraya can use big rasengan in Sage mode, he can't use small rasengans anymore(which is proved wrong). Same goes for Naruto. It's as if you were saying that because Jiraya uses Sage mode, his katons are as big or overwhelming as Madaras. If 2persons for example can use 2same suiton techniques(A and B), and B is far more stronger than A. It's as if you were saying that if one of them goes in SM and uses A technique, because it's boosted with Sage mode, it will become stronger than a B technique, which was stronger. That's a thing we can't say for sure. If the Sage in question is not good in doton techniques, it doesn't mean that if he enters in SM, his doton techniques will surprisingly surpass even a master in this category. Sage Mode also increases genjutsu, but Jiraya can't simply because he lacks genjutsu skills. Kakashi explained it himself during the fight against Kakuzu. It's really difficult to be able to use a high caliber of ninjutsu if it's not your original affinity, and you really must have the skill to manage to do so.
So don't think that because Kabuto has Sage Mode, his suiton attacks will suddenly becomes better than even masters in this element. I don't think it's said somewhere that Kabuto was a master in suiton jutsu, so it's highly possible that it was even only a basic technique.
You also forget the location. Kabuto used that suiton techniques in a place where there was no water, and it's stated in this manga that a suiton technique is more powerful in a place where there is water exactly like where Kakashi fought Zabuza for example, exactly where he met Sasuke last time
That's why it's not as simple as you think. If you want to compare the power of jutsus, just refer to what you're seeing and i think it's hard to believe that the small suiton jutsu Kabuto used against Sasuke is as powerful as a suiton suiryudan Kakashi used against Zabuza, not even gonna mentioning the vortex which has an insane range.
Like i've stated, water swallowed everything on his path, so it's easy to understand why Sasuke even inside Susanoo struggled.
Sure he can see, like Itachi can also, but he still didn't managed to see through Kakashis KB when they met. Kakashi has Sharingan also, so it's easy for him to know that Sharingan can see color of chakra, but there is the timing in doing clones that you're greatly forgetting and that's where Kakashi is so good
You argue the same stuff everytime. Your saying Madara said that his "eye techniques" allowed him to see through the clones but then try to credit his experience fighting Hashirama?Poor. Madara himself gave Credit to his Eye's nothing else so this argument your making is incorrect:
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Nothing More Nothing less it was his eyes.
Now your trying to say that because All Mangekyou Sharingan have different abilities that the basic abilities would be different. Madara's Major abilities are Identical to Sasuke's. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. It is not Madara's special Mangekyou Sharingan ability to see through clones. Therefore it is a basic EMS Sharingan jutsu. All Shariangans no matter the level can see chakra as color right? Ok then.
Your poor argument against susanoo not piercing the Pillar is funny because the Next page shows the other side of the Pillar and that it was completely pierce:
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At your top left panel you will see Susanoo from a front view, the snakes and Pillar from the back view and see that Susanoo arrow is on that side as well. Pierce and Destroy are two different things:
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Say what you like about Susanoo but it has also been shown in the manga that it can keep Liquid jutsu from seeping under:
You argue the same stuff everytime. Your saying Madara said that his "eye techniques" allowed him to see through the clones but then try to credit his experience fighting Hashirama?Poor. Madara himself gave Credit to his Eye's nothing else so this argument your making is incorrect:
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Nothing More Nothing less it was his eyes.
Now your trying to say that because All Mangekyou Sharingan have different abilities that the basic abilities would be different. Madara's Major abilities are Identical to Sasuke's. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. It is not Madara's special Mangekyou Sharingan ability to see through clones. Therefore it is a basic EMS Sharingan jutsu. All Shariangans no matter the level can see chakra as color right? Ok then.
Your poor argument against susanoo not piercing the Pillar is funny because the Next page shows the other side of the Pillar and that it was completely pierce:
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At your top left panel you will see Susanoo from a front view, the snakes and Pillar from the back view and see that Susanoo arrow is on that side as well. Pierce and Destroy are two different things:
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Say what you like about Susanoo but it has also been shown in the manga that it can keep Liquid jutsu from seeping under:
Your opinion is obviously biaised, and it's what makes you fail to notice details and give abilities to Sasuke what we're not even sure he possess. I'm not saying he can't possess the same eye jutsu Madara possess, but i'm saying that he surely possess it by giving Madara as an example makes simply no sense at all. You say that because both have Susanoo, that means both can see through clones? That's why since both Itachi and Sasuke have tsukuyomi, both can use tsukuyomi on the same level, right?
You also forget that Sasuke had a fight with EMS against Kabuto and we've seen he wasn't able to know where the real kabuto is when he subtituated with clones of himself:
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We've seen that he wasn't able to realise that the Itachi he sees on this pic is a clone(that's why he is shocked and think Itachi was killed):
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Concerning the doton wall, you obviously only see the probability that the arrows could go through it easily ignoring the other side when it's clear that the doton wall has a greater range than the tree Danzo used. You also forget the fact that the doton jutsu to hide underground allow the user to hide himself even deeply inside the ground, so there is absolute no way that arrows could reach him if he is deeply underground. We've seen during the Danzo fight that it could even only barely go through the ground
Just that shows that your way of debating is already biaised from the beginning, which makes the discussion meaningless
Your opinion is obviously biaised, and it's what makes you fail to notice details and give abilities to Sasuke what we're not even sure he possess. I'm not saying he can't possess the same eye jutsu Madara possess, but i'm saying that he surely possess it by giving Madara as an example makes simply no sense at all. You say that because both have Susanoo, that means both can see through clones? That's why since both Itachi and Sasuke have tsukuyomi, both can use tsukuyomi on the same level, right?
You also forget that Sasuke had a fight with EMS against Kabuto and we've seen he wasn't able to know where the real kabuto is when he subtituated with clones of himself:
So now, according to your logic, seeing through clones requires some sort of special EMS ability, when Madara is clearly saying 'With my eye' in the clone panel? Since you have no proof to back up your claims, it's clearly you who is overtly biased.
