Theory: Sasuke is still an enemy

[uchihajaime]

Sure Sasuke in the end might be a good guy, but that doesn't mean he won't become a bad guy again. When people refuse to acknowledge Sasuke as hokage and accept Naruto instead, what exactly do you think would happen?

Nothings for certain until the manga ends, hence it being a theory. And being evil in Naruto isn't black and white, it's very gray. Sasuke's goals would be rejected by the alliance, which would bring about quarrel.

I agree. it happens after the war but Naruto saves him in the end.

Sakura has already seen through him. Same for Sai, Shikamaru.

Rikudou taught the basis of chakra, to spread peace. The shinobi were made to make peace.

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analyze a character's own actions, not the reactions of other characters. It's valid to say these character rejecting Sasuke and his goals will cause him to become a tragic villain. It's invalid to say because these character think Sasuke is evil, then Sasuke is evil. You have to analyze the actual character's goals, mindset, and actions. Saying Sasuke could be a evil because burning the tailed beasts is valid. Listing other characters reactions to Sasuke is invalid.
You're assuming these characters know who Sasuke truly is now and have some hints at this plans. However, they are privy to that information. they can only make guesses. guesses are not proofs. it's circumstantial evidence.

 

[ANiMUS]

Sure Sasuke in the end might be a good guy, but that doesn't mean he won't become a bad guy again. When people refuse to acknowledge Sasuke as hokage and accept Naruto instead, what exactly do you think would happen?

Nothings for certain until the manga ends, hence it being a theory. And being evil in Naruto isn't black and white, it's very gray. Sasuke's goals would be rejected by the alliance, which would bring about quarrel.

I wish you people would give kishimoto SOME credit. With all the flashbacks and life lessons that Kishi tries to shove down the reader's throat. I would sooner believe that Madara is doing mugen tsukuyomi just so he can be reborn as a pretty princess than to believe that kishi would leave the biggest rivalry in that series as just some repeat of the past in which nothing is learned.

 

[Transcendence]

Don't think so. It's clear Sasuke is on the road to redemption. He inherited his brothers will which was to protect the village. If he wanted to go with Madara he would have by now, but it conflicts with his brothers ideology. And we have already seen what he thinks of Madara; when they thought they had killed Obito, he said "Good, now all we have to do is seal the zombie over there and this is over". Sasuke was never an antagonist to begin with; he's been an anti-hero. There are large distinctions that sway him in each direction but ultimately he will be redeemed.

 

[Itachi Edo]

I think there's going to be a split as well. Dude has shown his own goals are most important to him and second to only family. Whatever his goals are Madara's Moon Eye plan probably conflicts with that and he's already said Itachi is his reason for helping. Kishi might write some questionable stuff, but he's shown consistently that he writes his villains with a shade of gray.

 

[KingHashirama]

analyze a character's own actions, not the reactions of other characters. It's valid to say these character rejecting Sasuke and his goals will cause him to become a tragic villain. It's invalid to say because these character think Sasuke is evil, then Sasuke is evil. You have to analyze the actual character's goals, mindset, and actions. Saying Sasuke could be a evil because burning the tailed beasts is valid. Listing other characters reactions to Sasuke is invalid.
You're assuming these characters know who Sasuke truly is now and have some hints at this plans. However, they are privy to that information. they can only make guesses. guesses are not proofs. it's circumstantial evidence.

They do not trust Sasuke, simple as that. You can assume all you want after that. But they do not trust him. If they don't trust him, means hes not "good".

 

[Xlad]

Still hope that he has some evil demeanor at the least to make the fight more interesting. U_U But from where the manga is going, that may not be the case.

 

[uchihajaime]

They do not trust Sasuke, simple as that. You can assume all you want after that. But they do not trust him. If they don't trust him, means hes not "good".

this makes no sense. You're only good if the good guys believe you are good. There's an episode of Batman the Animated Series where the Penguin wants to become good but Batman doesn't believe him. However, the Penguin tries and fails due to a series of unfortunate circumstances. He becomes the villain again because society forced it on him, though his intentions were true. Batman locks him in jail never believing he even tried to become redeemed. the Penguin is locked away and knows he can never have redemption because he'll never convince society that he is anything but a villain. he becomes the tragic villain.

go to tvtropes "reformed but rejected." it gives you literally dozens of examples of this where the reformed villain sometimes fall again or convince people that he is reformed. We can't judge a character's true intentions and inner self based on what society or others think about them. you have to analyze the character.

I'm not assuming he's good. I'm hoping he's good. you're assuming that because other characters think he is evil, then he is evil.

edit: an example of a character with good intention who is mistrusted but proves to the heroes he's reformed would be from Avatar the Last Airbender; Jet followed by Zuko

 

[Lightbringer]

Then what was the point of the redemption arc? Sasuke not redeemed yet, and he is still a dark character but he's on the path to redemption after doubting revenge, giving up revenge, becoming willing to save comrades and becoming less dark according to Naruto.
he has little reason to turn to Madara. their goals are different Sasuke fights for the future whereas Madara has given up and wants to live in a dream.
Yes, Sasuke fells envy towards Naruto but how does that mean he'll turn to Madara? Sasuke just got a Sussano with legs. it's therefore reasonable to assume he can get more power-ups to the Sussano by himself. I also doubt Madara would be patient enough to give Sasuke a power-up now that the war is at its climax. He has to use this trump card now, not give out power-ups.
while Naruto vs. Sasuke will happen, it will probably happen after the war arc.

Redemption is subjective. Sasuke's goal, even though with good intention, will most likely not be understood by everyone else......much like every other villain in the series.

His and Madara's goals are not different, did you read the thread? They both want to end the shinobi system, but Madara knows things that Sasuke doesn't.

Sasuke wants peace, but what if Madara tells him the story of the SO6P and how chakra created even more gruesome wars and battles, he would obviously grab his attention


Sasuke's redemption by the way was not that he turned good; but that he changed his ideals from destroying konoha to trying to bring change......bringing change to benefit the future generation can be the equivalent to a holocaust if it means the greater good.

 

[uchihajaime]

Redemption is subjective. Sasuke's goal, even though with good intention, will most likely not be understood by everyone else......much like every other villain in the series.

His and Madara's goals are not different, did you read the thread? They both want to end the shinobi system, but Madara knows things that Sasuke doesn't.

Sasuke wants peace, but what if Madara tells him the story of the SO6P and how chakra created even more gruesome wars and battles, he would obviously grab his attention


Sasuke's redemption by the way was not that he turned good; but that he changed his ideals from destroying konoha to trying to bring change......bringing change to benefit the future generation can be the equivalent to a holocaust if it means the greater good.

i agree. my definition of redemption; Sasuke not wanting revenge, apologizing to Karin and fighting for the future. this is the start of redemption. It would be a waste to have him go evil again if he got that progress. However, you're correct redemption is subjective. the others may not believe him. However, if he wants to be redeemed, then in my eyes he is on the path to being redeemed.

yes, I read the thread. yes, Madara and Sasuke want to change the system. So does Naruto, he is not the same was Madara or Sasuke. However, Sasuke and Madara go about changing it in different ways. Madara wants to lock everyone in a genjutsu. Sasuke wants to create a new system. Madara wants some ideal non-reality. Sasuke wants to change reality. While they both want to force change, it's very different change

okay, valid point. However, I don't see Madara stopping to tell Sasuke that since he has 15 minutes left, he won't want to risk on trying to tnj someone he doesn't know. Sasuke could also have read the tablet. he was in the same room as it when he summoned the Kages

agree. Sasuke clearly isn't completely redeemed but he is improved over the monster he was. I think he will continue to improve or his improvement was a waste.

 

[saw2097]

I more or less agree, Sasuke's redemption is probably the finale of the story.

I have also begun to wonder if the reason Kishi brought Madara and Hashirama back was for them to be the final mentors of Naruto and Sasuke.

Kishi has kept the interaction between Naruto and Hashirama at a minimum and the interaction of Sasuke and Madara at a bare minimum, maybe he is setting up the meeting between them.

 

[KingHashirama]

this makes no sense. You're only good if the good guys believe you are good. There's an episode of Batman the Animated Series where the Penguin wants to become good but Batman doesn't believe him. However, the Penguin tries and fails due to a series of unfortunate circumstances. He becomes the villain again because society forced it on him, though his intentions were true. Batman locks him in jail never believing he even tried to become redeemed. the Penguin is locked away and knows he can never have redemption because he'll never convince society that he is anything but a villain. he becomes the tragic villain.

go to tvtropes "reformed but rejected." it gives you literally dozens of examples of this where the reformed villain sometimes fall again or convince people that he is reformed. We can't judge a character's true intentions and inner self based on what society or others think about them. you have to analyze the character.

I'm not assuming he's good. I'm hoping he's good. you're assuming that because other characters think he is evil, then he is evil.

edit: an example of a character with good intention who is mistrusted but proves to the heroes he's reformed would be from Avatar the Last Airbender; Jet followed by Zuko

Your making a pointless argument with me...... Sakura doesn't trust him, should already be a hint for you Sasuke fans, he ain't turnin good yet. Even Naruto and Hashirama are suspicious.

 

[H a n]

I think he will take it personal if Naruto becomes Kage and he don't.

 

[Raekwon26]

Doesn't agree with Hashirama and Naruto's childlike fantasies = Enemy?

Then yes, he's an enemy. I still don't get why he wants to be Hokage.

So stupid.

 

[KingHashirama]

Doesn't agree with Hashirama and Naruto's childlike fantasies = Enemy?

Then yes, he's an enemy. I still don't get why he wants to be Hokage.

So stupid.

So peace is now a childish fantasy. Shame to the great people who died trying to achieve peace in rl...

 

[Raekwon26]

So peace is now a childish fantasy. Shame to the great people who died trying to achieve peace in rl...

Yeah it is. The way they want to achieve peace is a childish fantasy.

'I'll erase your hate?'
'Unite the Shinobi world so everybody will be singing "Kumbaya" by some fcking camp fire?'

Get real and grow the fck up.