[Discussion] The way Kizaru is used in multiverse battles in hypocritical

[Joseph Gomes]

I love Kizaru and One Piece. But One Piece fans are sometimes massive hypocrites in multiverse battles forums. I have seen fans saying Kizaru beats Goku and DBU, then solos Bleachverse and NV.

Those same fans put Kizaru at mid admiral level (almost always below Aokiji).

We all know how the whole Kizaru's lightspeed thing is total PIS/WIS. Oda probably doesn't know how light works, which is fine because manga is fiction. But in battleforums, we shouldn't mention ridiculous hyperboles from the manga, which reduces credibility.

If Kizaru could kick at light speed, he could solo the whole Marineford war. He doesn't even need to have good reaction time. Kizaru could fly and spam lasers until everybody is dead

But Kizaru doesn't fight at lightspeed. If he did then WB, SN11, Marco and Rayleigh would be dead for good. One Piece doesn't have a single character that can tank or dodge a kick even at 1% of C.

So we need to stop referring to Kizaru light speed stuff in multiverse battle. Either we agree that Kizaru solos One Piece verse, or accept the PIS

 

[Sir Blades]

Kizaru solos, deal with it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

If Kizaru could kick at light speed, he could solo the whole Marineford war. He doesn't even need to have good reaction time. Kizaru could fly and spam lasers until everybody is dead

And this is where it looks like you don't really know how Kizaru's light speed works.

 

[Hexuze]

Ever heard of haki? His physical based moves do move at the speed of light but not his finger beams.

 

[Ryuma720]

I hate Kizaru

I hope Sanji kicks the s*@% outa him in the manga

 

[Joseph Gomes]

And this is where it looks like you don't really know how Kizaru's light speed works.

If Kizaru is ever light speed, that's using yata no kagami. Even that's a stretch

He doesn't kick at speed of light. Or light in one piece is hypersonic, not lightspeed. Contradiction is senseless

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Ever heard of haki? His physical based moves do move at the speed of light but not his finger beams.

Haki is irrelevant when you're lightspeed.

And his kicks are nowhere near lightspeed, otherwise WB would have died if kizaru wanted to kill him instantly

 

[Punk Hazard]

If Kizaru is ever light speed, that's using yata no kagami. Even that's a stretch

He doesn't kick at speed of light. Or light in one piece is hypersonic, not lightspeed. Contradiction is senseless

Yata no Kagami is the speed of light because, during this move, Kizaru becomes light itself. You're basically saying it's light that can't move at the speed of light.

Like KingSmoke once said, how do you know that people reacting to Kizaru is proof that Kizaru isn't at the speed of light, and not that One Piece characters just have an immensely strong speed scale?

 

[Hexuze]

Haki is irrelevant when you're lightspeed.

And his kicks are nowhere near lightspeed, otherwise WB would have died if kizaru wanted to kill him instantly

Nope:

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[Joseph Gomes]

Yata no Kagami is the speed of light because, during this move, Kizaru becomes light itself. You're basically saying it's light that can't move at the speed of light.

Like KingSmoke once said, how do you know that people reacting to Kizaru is proof that Kizaru isn't at the speed of light, and not that One Piece characters just have an immensely strong speed scale?

OP characters carry swords, use guns and canons to fight. Lightspeed characters can travel around the planet in less than a second, send somebody flying to another continent with a single punch etc

Nobody in OP has speed feat equal to gotenks even, they still have to run to reach another part of a city. OP characters being ligtspeed is not even a good joke

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Nope:

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You must be kidding if you think observation haki gives you FTL reaction Lol

 

[Hexuze]

You must be kidding if you think observation haki gives you FTL reaction Lol

I never said it gives you FTL reaction. The fact that you can read what they are attempting to do next is enough.

 

[Punk Hazard]

OP characters carry swords, use guns and canons to fight. Lightspeed characters can travel around the planet in less than a second, send somebody flying to another continent with a single punch etc

Nobody in OP has speed feat equal to gotenks even, they still have to run to reach another part of a city. OP characters being ligtspeed is not even a good joke

We've seen people like Bartolomeo take cannon fire and shrug it off. Swords are immensely strong in the One Piece world, and the already immense strength of the people using them increase their lethality exponentially. Bullets can be Haki-infused to be strengthened, or take down fodder. We had Pell survive a nuke man.

I don't recall ever saying everyone was lightspeed.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I never said it gives you FTL reaction. The fact that you can read what they are attempting to do next is enough.

Foresight is useless if you can't dodge or see a lightspeed attacks in real term

 

[Joseph Gomes]

We've seen people like Bartolomeo take cannon fire and shrug it off. Swords are immensely strong in the One Piece world, and the already immense strength of the people using them increase their lethality exponentially. Bullets can be Haki-infused to be strengthened, or take down fodder. We had Pell survive a nuke man.

I don't recall ever saying everyone was lightspeed.

Nobody is lightspeed. Either all characters stronger than Kuzaru have FTL reaction or planetery durability, or all statements about lightspeed are hyperbole and PIS/

 

[Punk Hazard]

Foresight is useless if you can't dodge or see a lightspeed attacks

Actually, what he's saying makes a lot of sense. Lets look at Hawkins for example, he lacked Observation feats during his scuffle with Kizaru. Because of this, he had no idea what Kizaru was going to do next, and didn't know how to counter him effectively.

Now take someone like Rayleigh who's mastered his Observation Haki. He can predict and have foresight to Kizaru using his Yata no Kagami to create a path to Rayleigh, then traveling at light speed to kick him in the head. Rayleigh can see that the sequence of action is gonna go like this

1. Kizaru prepares light path
2. Kizaru transforms into light
3. Kizaru travels at LS to Rayleigh
4. Slight delay where Kizaru reforms and kicks Rayleigh with the momentum of LS creating a devastating hit

Now that Rayleigh knows what's gonna happen, he can change the sequence by doing something different than he was about to do in the premonition, so the sequence can go like this

1. Kizaru prepares light path
2. Kizaru starts transforming into light and at this same time, Rayleigh lifts his arm up above his head
3. Kizaru travels at LS to Rayleigh
4. Kizaru reforms and delivers the kick directly into Rayleigh's arm that was already stationed for defense before the light speed travel started, thus allowing Rayleigh to defend from his LS kick.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Nobody is lightspeed. Either all characters stronger than Kuzaru have FTL reaction or planetery durability, or all statements about lightspeed are hyperbole and PIS/

Kinda like how you abandoned all reasoning and just restated your thesis statement once points were brought up that countered your initial reasoning. GG? GG.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Actually, what he's saying makes a lot of sense. Lets look at Hawkins for example, he lacked Observation feats during his scuffle with Kizaru. Because of this, he had no idea what Kizaru was going to do next, and didn't know how to counter him effectively.

Now take someone like Rayleigh who's mastered his Observation Haki. He can predict and have foresight to Kizaru using his Yata no Kagami to create a path to Rayleigh, then traveling at light speed to kick him in the head. Rayleigh can see that the sequence of action is gonna go like this

1. Kizaru prepares light path
2. Kizaru transforms into light
3. Kizaru travels at LS to Rayleigh
4. Slight delay where Kizaru reforms and kicks Rayleigh with the momentum of LS creating a devastating hit

Now that Rayleigh knows what's gonna happen, he can change the sequence by doing something different than he was about to do in the premonition, so the sequence can go like this

1. Kizaru prepares light path
2. Kizaru starts transforming into light and at this same time, Rayleigh lifts his arm up above his head
3. Kizaru travels at LS to Rayleigh
4. Kizaru reforms and delivers the kick directly into Rayleigh's arm that was already stationed for defense before the light speed travel started, thus allowing Rayleigh to defend from his LS kick.

If there is any delay in reforming it proves Kizaru's techniques are not lightspeed. Light moves instantly between any two points on earth. Also it's impossible to perceive LS even in precognition. Our brain signal is much too slow to detect lightspeed

Most probably Kizaru's light is not true light, or Oda is totally clueless about lightspeed and toying around with the term

 

[Punk Hazard]

If there is any delay in reforming it proves Kizaru's techniques are not lightspeed. Light moves instantly between any two points on earth.

Most probably Kizaru's light is not true light, or Oda is totally clueless about lightspeed and toying around with the term

Whatever helps your fav feel better about being solod by Kizaru.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Whatever helps your fav feel better about being solod by Kizaru.

Rayleigh doesn't care about fake lightspeed Lol