ncie theory...... it makes alot of sense. We never knew the surname of So6P and based on ur theory, Im pretty sure kishi will soon reveal that he was in fact an uzumaki. for those who dont believe it, we only knew that the uchiha and senju were direct descendants from him, yet we never knew wat the main bloodline was coming from him. It was never stated that the So6p was an uchiha or a senju, and i think the best bet would be that he is the very first uzumaki. This would mean that any living uzumaki, would have his surname but not his eyes or his body. However, they can also acquire it just like any senju or uchiha.
The uzumaki will be confirmed to be the original blood line
- Thread starter DeadManWonderLand
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Optimistic
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woah Tim Jamison is truly surprised on how this thread is in the hottest section
shri3kbat
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No, being Uzumaki doesn't mean you can have Rinnegan because Uzumaki isn't Uchiha/Senju, that's what I mean and I disagree, but am not 100% sure until Kishi has confirmed who the Uzumaki were. I mean that Senju and Uchiha comes from the sage and then from Senju comes Uzumaki because they haven't shown anything related to Uchiha so that's what I assume
StyleOcean
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hi this is my first post 
OT : i think your theory is possible
may be because of this only reason madara transplanted his eyes on nagato
but we cant confirm it unless kishi tells us clearly
OT : i think your theory is possible
may be because of this only reason madara transplanted his eyes on nagato
but we cant confirm it unless kishi tells us clearly
Justice
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I can't believe I read this
DeadManWonderLand
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"the Uzumaki do not share anything with the Uchiha."/""Senju and Uchiha share the same sage lineage directly, since their clans come directly from the two sons. This is proven in the manga, you can't ignore this. It means the the uchiha lineage is just as potent as the senju lineage. So for your theory to be correct, all three would have to share that same ancestor, yet you highlight and connect only two in your diagram."
I did not touch up on the relation between uchiha and the uzumaki not because i could not,but only because the conversation in the thread never began to lean that way everyone was focused and persistant to talk about the senju.I will compare and contrast the similarities and then explain what they mean and how i came to the conclusion.The senju and uzumaki share the most obvious relations and charateristics to the sage himself but not because they are related to the uzumaki anymore then the uchiha.The relationship and characteristics shared between these two are manifested in other ways some not being visibly and readily apparent as others.The Uchiha do however share more aspects with the juubi but remember the Juubi was sealed inside the sage so anything resembling or sharing similar characteristics of the uchiha have witht he juubi is only possible through the sage.Before i get into the similarities of the uchiha and the juubi i would mention the few things they share with the sage.The Elder son inherited the Sage's his powerful chakra and spiritual energy manifesting in his eyes and aquiring the yin nature of his chakra.Red is a common hair colour among the members of the Uzumaki clan and The Elder sons Dojustu is Red.(I am not sure if you read the conversation i had a page or two back in this thread but it concerned the significance of colors.Kishi has used color as way to symbolize before [example being minato and kushina having red hair and blonde hair which is melded togerher to make naruto's orange outfit]The elder sons eyes share a remarkable resemblance to the uzumaki clan symbol with the addition of one extra swirl.
The Uzumaki are renowned for their funinjustu which they used to seal and extract tailed beast which gave control over them.The uchiha through their gifted eyes also wield the power to have the tailed beast succumb to them even though the methods vary these are the only two clans with a distinct way of taking advantage of the tailed beast do you not consider that a similarity ?The strong chakra of the uzumaki is utilized through seals(the seals being the catalyst for the uzumakis chakra)(the uchiha use the powers manifested in their eyes as the catalyst to subdue the beast)
"Look at your diagram one more time to understand what I'm saying. On your tree of life, you have Uzumaki, Senju, and Uchiha. You have Uzumaki as the main, or "untainted" branch."
Untainted was a bad metaphor.Think of it as this the sage(uzumaki)had the rinnegan(progenitor gene)which cannot replicate only those who wield the exact blood or chakra can obtain it.When the two sons were born the dna was split forever losing that specific gene.When the uchiha and senju combine they make the rinnegan.Madara was able to use nagato as a host because he retained the original chakra that broke off into the two sons.He is essentially the full package but many misunderstood me and assumed i was saying that the uzumaki retains all the powers of the two clans.He just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha and senju he does not have access to either clans unique powers.The chakra was passed down from the sage to the sons who went on to morph the nature of their chakra into something else entirely.The sharingan and senju have individual powers that the uzumaki do not possess.I am just saying that the origin of the powers lie with the uzumaki who originally split his chakra into two sons to allow that evolution to take place.By no means will a uzumaki pop up with a sharingan.They were merely catalyst for their dna.And since the senju and uchiha essentially hold the general make up of the uzumaki Madara is able to insert his rinnegan(dna of both uchiha and senju)in Nagato uzumaki and he is able to retain it.
"but you fail to realize that the Uzumaki powers are watered down versions of the Senju, implying that the Senju came first."
The uzumaki have longevity and a strong life force.The Senju Ancestor inherited the Sage's life force and physical energy aquiring the yang nature of his chakra.Now why does that part about inheriting life force and physicalenergy sound familliar ? Its because the uzumaki are known to have exactly that if the senju were the ancestors of the uzumaki then they would have more traits then the uzumaki yet they do not they share those two similarities and the uzumaki retain a third characteristic not found in the senju which is longevity.
FACT: "The Senju can also control tailed beasts WITHOUT having to be their hosts (ex: hashirama). The Uzumaki can't control tailed beasts, their chakra can ony supress tailed beast chakra."
The above statement only proves hashirama can control the beast how does that correlate to the whole clan being able to do so ?On what premise ?Hashi has shown to be able to do mnay things that other senju have not been able to do (mokuton as a prime example)The only thing we know about hashirama is that he took the tailest beast out of madaras control nowhere is it ever stated they he aserted his dominance over the beast any differently then the uzumaki or uchiha.(as they hold close relations its possible they taught him how to do so)plus this panel shows that each time he was contained it was against his will so all acts of controling the tailed beast should be consider oppression.
What this proves is that all 3 demonstrates the ability to supress the beast.And in turn creates another similarity shared between not just the uzumaki and senju but the uchiha and uzumaki as well.
"The fact that the Uzumaki have a lesser ability to contain the tailed beasts adds weight to the idea that they came last"
How did you come to this conclusion do you have any evidence to back this up ?No.Can you provide any examples to as where this event might of been true in some way (like say being able to show me a time where the senju and uzumaki both supressed a beast and explain what was the deciding factor on how you came to the conclusion to which was more effective ? No. so do not throw around useless assumptions i thought you were adressing facts ?
"Another thing to point out is that the healing abilities of the Senju were far more advanced than the Uzumaki as well. Uzumaki have lots of life energy and good healing abilities, but the senju were known to be superior in both of those aspects. Also note that the Senju were experts in sealing as well as the Uzumaki, and were probably superior. "
Ojnce again can you back these claims up using facts and showcasing examples other then your opinion ?Its funny that you mention this because there is one trait the uzumaki and senju do not share and that is there the longevity that provide them with an outstanding life span(mito uzumaki having lived her adult life through the reign of the first three Hokage.)another thing your going to say the senju were experts in sealing which not backed up by any evidence and then continue to say the clan who was renowned for the funinjustu (which is the reason they got killed) was beaten out by the senju ? Should i mention that you once again provide no evidence or should i just laugh at statement how does one constantly throw the word fact in there post without even backing it up with thus said 'facts' and "probably superior" ? really ? what happened to the facts when did you start guessing ? guessing has no merit here.
"The manga has expressed numerous times the connection between the Uzumaki and the Senju"
there is only two references as of now.I would try learning to count pass two lol
I do hope one day you actually provide facts i look forward to that day hopefully its sooner then later
AFTER READING YOUR TEDIOUS AND HORRENDOUSLY FLAWED 'ARGUMENT' WHICH WAS FILLED WITH ABSOLUTELY NO EXAMPLES OR FACTS THAT SHOWCASED YOUR POINTS.I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION YOU ARE SOMEONE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.I THOUGHT THAT YOUR POST WOULD CHALLENGE ME GIVING ITS LENGTH BUT ITS LITERALLY JUST YOU SPOUTING RANDOM ASSUMPTIONS AND PERSONAL OPINIONS NEITHER OF WHICH YOU BOTHER TO PROVIDE FACTS OR EXAMPLES FOR.SO THIS IS GOING TO BE THE LAST TIME I REPLY TO YOU.YOUR LUCKY I EVEN TOOK THE TIME TO READ THIS CRAP AND GO ONE STEP FURTHER BY REPLYING WHICH I MAINLY DID JUST TO POINT OUT HOW WRONG YOU WERE .PLZ NEVER TRY TO 'DEBATE' WITH ME EVER AGAIN ):
I did not touch up on the relation between uchiha and the uzumaki not because i could not,but only because the conversation in the thread never began to lean that way everyone was focused and persistant to talk about the senju.I will compare and contrast the similarities and then explain what they mean and how i came to the conclusion.The senju and uzumaki share the most obvious relations and charateristics to the sage himself but not because they are related to the uzumaki anymore then the uchiha.The relationship and characteristics shared between these two are manifested in other ways some not being visibly and readily apparent as others.The Uchiha do however share more aspects with the juubi but remember the Juubi was sealed inside the sage so anything resembling or sharing similar characteristics of the uchiha have witht he juubi is only possible through the sage.Before i get into the similarities of the uchiha and the juubi i would mention the few things they share with the sage.The Elder son inherited the Sage's his powerful chakra and spiritual energy manifesting in his eyes and aquiring the yin nature of his chakra.Red is a common hair colour among the members of the Uzumaki clan and The Elder sons Dojustu is Red.(I am not sure if you read the conversation i had a page or two back in this thread but it concerned the significance of colors.Kishi has used color as way to symbolize before [example being minato and kushina having red hair and blonde hair which is melded togerher to make naruto's orange outfit]The elder sons eyes share a remarkable resemblance to the uzumaki clan symbol with the addition of one extra swirl.
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The Uzumaki are renowned for their funinjustu which they used to seal and extract tailed beast which gave control over them.The uchiha through their gifted eyes also wield the power to have the tailed beast succumb to them even though the methods vary these are the only two clans with a distinct way of taking advantage of the tailed beast do you not consider that a similarity ?The strong chakra of the uzumaki is utilized through seals(the seals being the catalyst for the uzumakis chakra)(the uchiha use the powers manifested in their eyes as the catalyst to subdue the beast)
"Look at your diagram one more time to understand what I'm saying. On your tree of life, you have Uzumaki, Senju, and Uchiha. You have Uzumaki as the main, or "untainted" branch."
Untainted was a bad metaphor.Think of it as this the sage(uzumaki)had the rinnegan(progenitor gene)which cannot replicate only those who wield the exact blood or chakra can obtain it.When the two sons were born the dna was split forever losing that specific gene.When the uchiha and senju combine they make the rinnegan.Madara was able to use nagato as a host because he retained the original chakra that broke off into the two sons.He is essentially the full package but many misunderstood me and assumed i was saying that the uzumaki retains all the powers of the two clans.He just holds the genetic make up that led to the uchiha and senju he does not have access to either clans unique powers.The chakra was passed down from the sage to the sons who went on to morph the nature of their chakra into something else entirely.The sharingan and senju have individual powers that the uzumaki do not possess.I am just saying that the origin of the powers lie with the uzumaki who originally split his chakra into two sons to allow that evolution to take place.By no means will a uzumaki pop up with a sharingan.They were merely catalyst for their dna.And since the senju and uchiha essentially hold the general make up of the uzumaki Madara is able to insert his rinnegan(dna of both uchiha and senju)in Nagato uzumaki and he is able to retain it.
"but you fail to realize that the Uzumaki powers are watered down versions of the Senju, implying that the Senju came first."
The uzumaki have longevity and a strong life force.The Senju Ancestor inherited the Sage's life force and physical energy aquiring the yang nature of his chakra.Now why does that part about inheriting life force and physicalenergy sound familliar ? Its because the uzumaki are known to have exactly that if the senju were the ancestors of the uzumaki then they would have more traits then the uzumaki yet they do not they share those two similarities and the uzumaki retain a third characteristic not found in the senju which is longevity.
FACT: "The Senju can also control tailed beasts WITHOUT having to be their hosts (ex: hashirama). The Uzumaki can't control tailed beasts, their chakra can ony supress tailed beast chakra."
The above statement only proves hashirama can control the beast how does that correlate to the whole clan being able to do so ?On what premise ?Hashi has shown to be able to do mnay things that other senju have not been able to do (mokuton as a prime example)The only thing we know about hashirama is that he took the tailest beast out of madaras control nowhere is it ever stated they he aserted his dominance over the beast any differently then the uzumaki or uchiha.(as they hold close relations its possible they taught him how to do so)plus this panel shows that each time he was contained it was against his will so all acts of controling the tailed beast should be consider oppression.
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What this proves is that all 3 demonstrates the ability to supress the beast.And in turn creates another similarity shared between not just the uzumaki and senju but the uchiha and uzumaki as well.
"The fact that the Uzumaki have a lesser ability to contain the tailed beasts adds weight to the idea that they came last"
How did you come to this conclusion do you have any evidence to back this up ?No.Can you provide any examples to as where this event might of been true in some way (like say being able to show me a time where the senju and uzumaki both supressed a beast and explain what was the deciding factor on how you came to the conclusion to which was more effective ? No. so do not throw around useless assumptions i thought you were adressing facts ?
"Another thing to point out is that the healing abilities of the Senju were far more advanced than the Uzumaki as well. Uzumaki have lots of life energy and good healing abilities, but the senju were known to be superior in both of those aspects. Also note that the Senju were experts in sealing as well as the Uzumaki, and were probably superior. "
Ojnce again can you back these claims up using facts and showcasing examples other then your opinion ?Its funny that you mention this because there is one trait the uzumaki and senju do not share and that is there the longevity that provide them with an outstanding life span(mito uzumaki having lived her adult life through the reign of the first three Hokage.)another thing your going to say the senju were experts in sealing which not backed up by any evidence and then continue to say the clan who was renowned for the funinjustu (which is the reason they got killed) was beaten out by the senju ? Should i mention that you once again provide no evidence or should i just laugh at statement how does one constantly throw the word fact in there post without even backing it up with thus said 'facts' and "probably superior" ? really ? what happened to the facts when did you start guessing ? guessing has no merit here.
"The manga has expressed numerous times the connection between the Uzumaki and the Senju"
there is only two references as of now.I would try learning to count pass two lol
I do hope one day you actually provide facts i look forward to that day hopefully its sooner then later
AFTER READING YOUR TEDIOUS AND HORRENDOUSLY FLAWED 'ARGUMENT' WHICH WAS FILLED WITH ABSOLUTELY NO EXAMPLES OR FACTS THAT SHOWCASED YOUR POINTS.I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION YOU ARE SOMEONE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.I THOUGHT THAT YOUR POST WOULD CHALLENGE ME GIVING ITS LENGTH BUT ITS LITERALLY JUST YOU SPOUTING RANDOM ASSUMPTIONS AND PERSONAL OPINIONS NEITHER OF WHICH YOU BOTHER TO PROVIDE FACTS OR EXAMPLES FOR.SO THIS IS GOING TO BE THE LAST TIME I REPLY TO YOU.YOUR LUCKY I EVEN TOOK THE TIME TO READ THIS CRAP AND GO ONE STEP FURTHER BY REPLYING WHICH I MAINLY DID JUST TO POINT OUT HOW WRONG YOU WERE .PLZ NEVER TRY TO 'DEBATE' WITH ME EVER AGAIN ):
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Uzimaki Akira
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Yes Lineage is a lineal descent, the point is they ALL Descended from the So6Ps DNA strain. Why is it that you guys haven't noticed that the Symbol for the Ancient and near extinct Uzimaki clan whose blood is only kept alive by Uzimaki's marrying Senju ( Hashirama and his wife, Hiruzen and his wife, Kushina and Minato, etc
and possibly also marrying Hyuuga giving us the mutated and more powerful eyes of the Uchiha clan ( because we all know as is stated in Manga Canon that the Sharingan comes from the Byakugan as told in part one ) IS THE SAME AS THE EYES OF THE ELDER SON OF RIKOUDO SENNIN!!!I've been saying this for three years and people STILL don't get it even when someone takes the time to spell it out for you, DAMN some of y'all are stupid!
* takes a deep breath * Kishi needs to hurry up and make the reveal so you idiots can be WRONG AGAIN LIKE WHEN YOU THOUGHT TOBI WAS MADARA OR HIS BROTHER OR UCHIHA SHISHUI OR SASUKE'S DAD OR SOME OTHER NAMELESS UCHIHA BASED ON UNFOUNDED BS INFO!!!
* pants heavily * Sorry bout that had to let that out, it's been building for three years. Great thread bro, *****.
DeadManWonderLand
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Yes Lineage is a lineal descent, the point is they ALL Descended from the So6Ps DNA strain. Why is it that you guys haven't noticed that the Symbol for the Ancient and near extinct Uzimaki clan whose blood is only kept alive by Uzimaki's marrying Senju ( Hashirama and his wife, Hiruzen and his wife, Kushina and Minato, etc
I've been saying this for three years and people STILL don't get it even when someone takes the time to spell it out for you, DAMN some of y'all are stupid!
* takes a deep breath * Kishi needs to hurry up and make the reveal so you idiots can be WRONG AGAIN LIKE WHEN YOU THOUGHT TOBI WAS MADARA OR HIS BROTHER OR UCHIHA SHISHUI OR SASUKE'S DAD OR SOME OTHER NAMELESS UCHIHA BASED ON UNFOUNDED BS INFO!!!
* pants heavily * Sorry bout that had to let that out, it's been building for three years. Great thread bro, *****.
Thanks i feel the same and i can feel you on the last part lol there mind must work like this "hey you know that one uchiha's face we got a glimpse of in that one panel they we never saw again who lived in a time period where the uchiha still lived ? well i am pretty sure that is tobi" lmao noobs gotta love their logic
Darkdeeds
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I'm not refuting anything you said completely just trying to understand it. But can you see where the tree could be misleading? The uzumaki clan should not be stringing from the SO6P but stringing into it and the senju clan would not branch off of the uzumaki clan but off of the SO6P. Btw i prefer to let the manga play out i don't really enjoy going back and forth with people on if's and such. Oh and do you have a scan where he talked about the gene i legitimately did not see that part might have skipped over it, just telling me the chapter and page will do as well.
DeadManWonderLand
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I understand your point as well now,but you seem to understand me a little more so the second graph should be more relevant to you know it its a vertices diagram and no matter how you look at it each clan or strain of dna if you will intersects into each other.
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you start off with the uzumaki can it splits but if you add them together you get the uzumaki again.
But like you said if you prefer to wait its cool thats the only true way this will be settled anway
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Darkdeeds
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Ya that graph goes right over my head. Hahaha but i do understand your point and everything i just wanted to clear up any misunderstandings about the tree. For what its worth the theory is pretty sound i could see it being true.
Umari Senju
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Well we thought most of the Uchiha were dead, but madara and Tobi were still around...sort of. Hell we didn't even know Nagato and Karin were Uzimaki until awhile later. it's a big shinobi world, perhaps there is another Uzimaki out there...One who know's a number of their, now lost, sealing jutsu. Kushina knew some sealing jutsu, she taught them to Minato. Maybe some of the jutsu were passed to Naruto as the Flying thunder God tech was passed to him by his father.
Troyg39
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By the time I typed my first response it had gotten so long that I didn't feel the need to go back and make it any longer to provide evidence for things that people should know just by simply reading the manga and the databook. Well not everyone has read the databooks or know what they are so nevermind.
1. Mito Uzumaki did not live through the first 3 hokages reins. She died after giving Kurama to a young Kushina. Hiruzen was the current Hokage, but no evidence from databook or manga can determine how early into Hiruzen's reign as Hokage it was, but it can be speculated that he wasn't Hokage for very long. Another thing to point out, Hiruzen became Hokage fairly quickly. Neither Tobirama nor Hashirama Senju lived a full life. Hashirama was said to have died shortly after founding Konoha. And Tobirama also died before reaching old age, and he appointed Hiruzen to be Hokage the following day. I'm don't have time to search up pages on things you should know, but go back and read the danzo/sasuke arc and find danzo's flashback to find your proof. So while Mito Uzumaki did indeed live to see 3 Hokages, two of them died young and she didn't even live to see the 3rd reach anywhere near old age.
2. Yes the Uzumaki had longevity, but clearly from my point in no.1, you are drastically overstating their life spans. The Senju had durability and stamina, and we have never seen an old Senju technically, but it is because of this fact we can not automatically assume they don't live long lives as well. The Senju (meaning thousand skills btw) were known to be the more-warrior like clan, and they participated in many fights leading to the founding of the Konoha. Many of them died in battle, so it can't be determined whether or not they could live just as long as the Uzumaki, I will give you that there. But seeing as the Senju clan did indeed inherit the sages long life force, and since you also can't prove otherwise, the senju likely would've otherwise lived long lives.
3. I am not like many of the people who think that you meant to say that the Uzumaki should get the sharingan. I even said in my post that "this goes beyond the sharingan". I understand your idea about the sharingan being a result of the time and morphing through the bloodline thinning, so the if the Uzumaki are the original bloodline, the pure bloodline combined with the ORIGINAL senju and uchiha dna, not the watered down stuff, then they wouldn't have the mutations that came later, meaning anything that the senju had during hashirama's era, and the uchiha had during madara's era, more than likely wouldn't be had by the sage or his two sons, since by the time hashi and madara came into existence, too many mutations had occured and the bloodline had thinned. See I get what you are saying there. The Uzumaki can be the original bloodline without having the mutated sharingan. Just like a person with darker skin and darker hair could trace his lineage and discover he has anscesters with blone hair and lighter skin. Mutations don't show up within the original bloodline. They are called mutations for a reason.
4. Now that we have that little agreement out of the way, you should be able to see what I'm saying. The elder son inherited the eyes as you said, and the younger son inherited the body. These were things directly given by the top of the heirarchy; the sage. The two sons are as untainted as the senju and the uchiha bloodline could get, and if you combine them, yes you would automatically get the sage again, equip with the Rinnegan and full powers and all, because the sons are the untainted bloodlines just cut in half. If you take the more recently mutated uchihas and senjus, then no you wouldnt automatically get the Rinnegan because those are mutated strands thus something completely different, but it is a possibility you could get them. Again, I've been following you this whole time, but my focus was not on the recent senju/uchiha/uzumaki, it was the original (sage/two sons). The Sage split his powers, and essentially his bloodline, in half, which resulted in a physical eye for the elder son, so while that may not be the sharingan, it does mean that if the Uzumaki are the ORIGINAL bloodline, then in the Uzumaki's PUREST form, there needs to be an occular jutsu that resembles the elder son's eyes. Yet from what the manga has given us, the Uzumaki have no occular jutsu and aren't able to obtain one.
THIS is what I've been trying to get you to see. If the ORIGINAL Uzumaki blood (the sage) has both the ORIGINAL Uchiha and ORIGINAL Senju dna, then that means that the elder son's eyes (which isn't the sharingan) should be something that the original Uzumaki should have. Yet from what the manga and databooks tell us, the Uzumaki's history have never shown them to be capable of any occular jutsu. You pointed out that they have all the senju traits plus longevity (yet to be confirmed but lets go with it) This makes sense. The senju got the body, the Uzumaki have the body+extra ok. But the uchiha got the eye, yet the Uzumaki dont even have an eye at all. They wouldn't ahve the sharingan obviously, but they would have an occular jutsu since that is something the sage gave DIRECTLY to the the elder son. Maybe the current Uzumaki's have also gone through mutations that caused them to lose their occular jutsu, but they should've definitely had one at some point in time.
Sidenote: The two sons went on to populate the senju and uchiha. the sage died after choosing his successor. We only know of him to have two kids. Unless he had Uzumaki kids we dont know about, then it's impossible for him to have helped populate an uzumaki clan. Yes a clan can be made up of other clans who intergrate with a dominant clan and assume it's name, but the sage was the only one of his kind at the time. Something else to think about.
1. Mito Uzumaki did not live through the first 3 hokages reins. She died after giving Kurama to a young Kushina. Hiruzen was the current Hokage, but no evidence from databook or manga can determine how early into Hiruzen's reign as Hokage it was, but it can be speculated that he wasn't Hokage for very long. Another thing to point out, Hiruzen became Hokage fairly quickly. Neither Tobirama nor Hashirama Senju lived a full life. Hashirama was said to have died shortly after founding Konoha. And Tobirama also died before reaching old age, and he appointed Hiruzen to be Hokage the following day. I'm don't have time to search up pages on things you should know, but go back and read the danzo/sasuke arc and find danzo's flashback to find your proof. So while Mito Uzumaki did indeed live to see 3 Hokages, two of them died young and she didn't even live to see the 3rd reach anywhere near old age.
2. Yes the Uzumaki had longevity, but clearly from my point in no.1, you are drastically overstating their life spans. The Senju had durability and stamina, and we have never seen an old Senju technically, but it is because of this fact we can not automatically assume they don't live long lives as well. The Senju (meaning thousand skills btw) were known to be the more-warrior like clan, and they participated in many fights leading to the founding of the Konoha. Many of them died in battle, so it can't be determined whether or not they could live just as long as the Uzumaki, I will give you that there. But seeing as the Senju clan did indeed inherit the sages long life force, and since you also can't prove otherwise, the senju likely would've otherwise lived long lives.
3. I am not like many of the people who think that you meant to say that the Uzumaki should get the sharingan. I even said in my post that "this goes beyond the sharingan". I understand your idea about the sharingan being a result of the time and morphing through the bloodline thinning, so the if the Uzumaki are the original bloodline, the pure bloodline combined with the ORIGINAL senju and uchiha dna, not the watered down stuff, then they wouldn't have the mutations that came later, meaning anything that the senju had during hashirama's era, and the uchiha had during madara's era, more than likely wouldn't be had by the sage or his two sons, since by the time hashi and madara came into existence, too many mutations had occured and the bloodline had thinned. See I get what you are saying there. The Uzumaki can be the original bloodline without having the mutated sharingan. Just like a person with darker skin and darker hair could trace his lineage and discover he has anscesters with blone hair and lighter skin. Mutations don't show up within the original bloodline. They are called mutations for a reason.
4. Now that we have that little agreement out of the way, you should be able to see what I'm saying. The elder son inherited the eyes as you said, and the younger son inherited the body. These were things directly given by the top of the heirarchy; the sage. The two sons are as untainted as the senju and the uchiha bloodline could get, and if you combine them, yes you would automatically get the sage again, equip with the Rinnegan and full powers and all, because the sons are the untainted bloodlines just cut in half. If you take the more recently mutated uchihas and senjus, then no you wouldnt automatically get the Rinnegan because those are mutated strands thus something completely different, but it is a possibility you could get them. Again, I've been following you this whole time, but my focus was not on the recent senju/uchiha/uzumaki, it was the original (sage/two sons). The Sage split his powers, and essentially his bloodline, in half, which resulted in a physical eye for the elder son, so while that may not be the sharingan, it does mean that if the Uzumaki are the ORIGINAL bloodline, then in the Uzumaki's PUREST form, there needs to be an occular jutsu that resembles the elder son's eyes. Yet from what the manga has given us, the Uzumaki have no occular jutsu and aren't able to obtain one.
THIS is what I've been trying to get you to see. If the ORIGINAL Uzumaki blood (the sage) has both the ORIGINAL Uchiha and ORIGINAL Senju dna, then that means that the elder son's eyes (which isn't the sharingan) should be something that the original Uzumaki should have. Yet from what the manga and databooks tell us, the Uzumaki's history have never shown them to be capable of any occular jutsu. You pointed out that they have all the senju traits plus longevity (yet to be confirmed but lets go with it) This makes sense. The senju got the body, the Uzumaki have the body+extra ok. But the uchiha got the eye, yet the Uzumaki dont even have an eye at all. They wouldn't ahve the sharingan obviously, but they would have an occular jutsu since that is something the sage gave DIRECTLY to the the elder son. Maybe the current Uzumaki's have also gone through mutations that caused them to lose their occular jutsu, but they should've definitely had one at some point in time.
Sidenote: The two sons went on to populate the senju and uchiha. the sage died after choosing his successor. We only know of him to have two kids. Unless he had Uzumaki kids we dont know about, then it's impossible for him to have helped populate an uzumaki clan. Yes a clan can be made up of other clans who intergrate with a dominant clan and assume it's name, but the sage was the only one of his kind at the time. Something else to think about.
Umari Senju
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Except the Senju are not superior in Sealing Jutsu. The Uzimaki were the best of ALL shinobi in the Shinobi world. This is why there clan was destroyed. The entire shinobi world feared there sealing Jutsu including Senju and Uchiha. The Senju bartered a partnership with the Uzimaki Clan, but the rest sought there destruction. So that part about Senju being Superior in Sealing jutsu is false.
Troyg39
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That was my comment he was replying to. And you are correct I was wrong about that statement. It's tough to really say what the senju could do since we only know of Hashirama in detail and all we know of the clan as a whole is that they were versitile in their jutsu. (senju meaning 1000 skills)
Naruto king of Shinobi
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Uzumaki and senju are almost the exact same thing in terms of abilities, except the uzumakis were widely known for how powerful their sealing jutsus were.... which is why their clan was destroyed, because of how feared they were. They were by no means trash, probably one of the strongest clans to ever exist
I understand wat ur trying to say.... apparently ppl on nb arent so good in the field of science like u and I. Ur theory makes alot of sense and has good evidence..... these ppl just cant admit that the uzumaki is in fact the main bloodline.
orona
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once again where was this stated?
so if that's not what you are trying to say then why did you say it?
i'm not putting words in your mouth you said fuinjutsu is seals and spells usually associated with priests and monks
if by saying this you were refering to the real world as opposed to naruto then you never should have said it because we aren't talking about the real world
fuinjutsu means sealing techniques as i stated already
how is it not the main reason when it's literally the only reason you've given? if i'm wrong about this then i'm sorry and i'll take it back but as far as i've seen you have only provided this as a possible reason for him being uzumaki.
once again if i'm wrong and you have given other reasons provide them and i'll take it back
once again fuinjutsu is sealing techs and only sealing techs, as for priests and monks i don't give a shit about priests and monks nor do i need to because there has been 1 group of monks shown in naruto and only 1 priest has ever been talked about. i'm not looking up some shit that has almost nothing to do with the topic at hand
i never once asked anything about priests or monks or fuinjutsu i asked when it was stated that fuinjutsu was common among priests and monks which i don't understand why you brought them up in the first place. you provided me with the fact that he sealed the jyuubi in himself and the uzumaki were known for fuinjutsu, both of which i already knew and it may have been a common trait but is there anything else that links the two? the uzumaki were feared for their fuinjutsu long after the sage was dead so that really doesn't say much anyway
once again, i read the manga i know what he said, what i was saying is that since uchiha and senju is apparently the equivalent of uzumaki why then has there been absolutely zero uzumaki with a natural rinnegan? since both uchiha and senju dna is needed and uzumaki is uchiha and senju combined then in all those years there would have been at least one person to have had it. i guess it's still really up to kishi to decide how rare it is and he has decided that it's very rare since madara took several years to get it after implanting senju dna but the time frame from the sages death to now is so vast it wouldn't make sense for the supposed root of it all to not have at least one natural rinnegan