The Uchiha Clan Could've taken over Konoha
- Thread starter Blaze Release
- Start date
markdabomb22
Active member
Even if they Did take over the Leaf, Their Battle would of only Just Started.
The Fire Country would be at war with it's self or Paid/Called for Help from Rogue Ninja or Other Nations.
Other Nations would of taken advantage of the chaos and Target the clan for their Eye's.
Even if they were Ready for War, I doubt they have the Numbers to hold of the Other Great Nations.
either Way, the Uchiha's are going to suffer Great losses.
The Fire Country would be at war with it's self or Paid/Called for Help from Rogue Ninja or Other Nations.
Other Nations would of taken advantage of the chaos and Target the clan for their Eye's.
Even if they were Ready for War, I doubt they have the Numbers to hold of the Other Great Nations.
either Way, the Uchiha's are going to suffer Great losses.
Blaze Release
Active member
Lets not get ahead of ourself, i was just talking about Konoha :noc:. Obviously if they were to take over the village they wouldve suffered great loses and any outside attack could possibly finish them off
Totsuka No Tsurugi
Active member
use to be i was like, "the konoha will stomp the uchiha" LOL
but now i see why its necessary for the higher ups to massacre them
but now i see why its necessary for the higher ups to massacre them
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The attack definitely would've crippled Konoha, but them completely winning is a bit of a stretch IMO.
The Uchiha were no doubt a powerful clan, but not all members were extremely powerful and talented as the likes of Itachi and Shisui were and not all the members of the clan even unlocked the sharingan as the manga stated(too lazy to look for the panel right now).
We also don't have an idea of the fighting prowess of anybody in the clan other than Itachi and somewhat Shisui, so it's pretty hard to judge how powerful they are other than going on general clan statements.
The Uchiha were no doubt a powerful clan, but not all members were extremely powerful and talented as the likes of Itachi and Shisui were and not all the members of the clan even unlocked the sharingan as the manga stated(too lazy to look for the panel right now).
We also don't have an idea of the fighting prowess of anybody in the clan other than Itachi and somewhat Shisui, so it's pretty hard to judge how powerful they are other than going on general clan statements.
I think Itachi chose the 'death before dishonour' route, u know being mass murdered by a assumed psycopath is much better than being infamous for a failed (maybe sucessful with luck) coup that resulted in death of civilian population (they probably wld have killed any non uchiha on the way). Thats what i think.
NarutoKage2
Active member
Well there are some things i agree with and some i disagree with in this thread.
But first there are some factual errors you made in the OP.
1. Shisui's koto amatsukami could not control people without them noticing. That ability(Koto) was unique to the specific MS eye of Shisui that Itachi had, what Danzo used was Shisui's Doryuko and that was what could control you w/o noticing and was Shisui's other eye's ability. Also, its clear that Shisui was'nt with the Uchihas nor did he die during the massacre, as Itachi clearly stated that the last time he saw Shisui, Danzo had taken one eye, i.e Itachi never saw Shisui dead.
2. Saying 'pre ms tobi' is a false and unverifiable statement. No one knows if Tobi ever had the MS/EMS or always just had regular sharingan. Idk if you wrote that by mistake but it caught my eye.
3. Seeing as how Izanami was created to stop certain Uchihas from using Izanagi, it is incorrect to state that all Uchihas could use either one of the 2 techs. Itachi said more than one person was able to use Izanagi, that's a far cry from every one of them being able to use that or the counter to it.
Anyways, its still debatable if the Uchiha would have actually succeeded or not in their planned coup attempt. I don't really think that that was what Danzo and the Elders feared, it was more the instability the aftermath of this attack would have had than anything else.
I agree that Tobi helping was a big factor in the massacre's success, no argument needed there. Itachi being a prodigy and the element of surprise also worked against the Uchiha here. However, most of the feats you have listed of the clan are really just hype and can't be taken literally. e.g if the Uchiha really were the best clan of the leaf like Kakashi said, they would'nt have ended up being subservient to the Senju as Tobi pointed out. Also, the Uchiha were declining in power and prestige, this was the whole reason they decided to take over Konoha so as to restore themselves to a position of strength. If they already had as much power as the hype you gave suggested, they would'nt have needed to stage a takeover in the first place.
But first there are some factual errors you made in the OP.
1. Shisui's koto amatsukami could not control people without them noticing. That ability(Koto) was unique to the specific MS eye of Shisui that Itachi had, what Danzo used was Shisui's Doryuko and that was what could control you w/o noticing and was Shisui's other eye's ability. Also, its clear that Shisui was'nt with the Uchihas nor did he die during the massacre, as Itachi clearly stated that the last time he saw Shisui, Danzo had taken one eye, i.e Itachi never saw Shisui dead.
2. Saying 'pre ms tobi' is a false and unverifiable statement. No one knows if Tobi ever had the MS/EMS or always just had regular sharingan. Idk if you wrote that by mistake but it caught my eye.
3. Seeing as how Izanami was created to stop certain Uchihas from using Izanagi, it is incorrect to state that all Uchihas could use either one of the 2 techs. Itachi said more than one person was able to use Izanagi, that's a far cry from every one of them being able to use that or the counter to it.
Anyways, its still debatable if the Uchiha would have actually succeeded or not in their planned coup attempt. I don't really think that that was what Danzo and the Elders feared, it was more the instability the aftermath of this attack would have had than anything else.
I agree that Tobi helping was a big factor in the massacre's success, no argument needed there. Itachi being a prodigy and the element of surprise also worked against the Uchiha here. However, most of the feats you have listed of the clan are really just hype and can't be taken literally. e.g if the Uchiha really were the best clan of the leaf like Kakashi said, they would'nt have ended up being subservient to the Senju as Tobi pointed out. Also, the Uchiha were declining in power and prestige, this was the whole reason they decided to take over Konoha so as to restore themselves to a position of strength. If they already had as much power as the hype you gave suggested, they would'nt have needed to stage a takeover in the first place.
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Enjoyably thread as always, Blaze. However, you left out the entire arsenal of Konoha bar Hiruzen, Kakashi and Gai.
Shisue would not have entered the war and he killed himself to prevent it so naturally he would not be a part of this revolution. It would be like placing Jiraiya and Orochimaro in the village which would be overkill- Although, Orochimaro worked in some capacity for the roots, arguable, he could have helped them during the invasion, but I won’t include him.
Hiruzen:
The Hiruzen you speak off was still stronger than all his fellow Kages. That would include the 4th Kazekage, 4th raikage, Yagura/current Mizukage, and Onoki. He fought three Kage level fighters at the age of 68/69, fought for over an hour, and he possessed the most knowledge out of anybody. He would bust out a lot of techniques that would crush the majority of the clan alone. Kid Itachi dispatched Uchiha police members like they were mere fodder. Imagine what Hiruzen would do…
Forget about ANBU.They are fodder.
Danzo:
Danzo was a major threat as well- Kage level- since he also fought for the position. He could have already integrated Hashirama’s dna into himself, which would be hell for the Uchiha clan because he could keep fighting for days. Even if he didn’t, he still showcased an incredible mastery over one of his elements, and his paralysis seal alone can solo almost everyone.
More importantly, he ruled over the rootless roots; they are all specialized in the art of assassinations. They are well organized and without emotions, which means nothing would face them.
Hyuuga clan:
You left out possible the strongest clan in Konoha. The Byakugan is one of the three great eye techniques, the thing the Kumo ninjas longed for and tried to steal, but failed. The people in the clan all possessed it. They all had extended fields of vision and the ability to see through solid objects and chakra systems.
The few who excelled within the Uchiha clan are greater than any Hyuuga, by far, but the rest are simply inferior. Note that not everybody had the sharingan let alone MS/EMS.
Nara clan + Akimichi clan + Yamanaki clan:
The Nara family has the intelligence and know-how to create a brilliant strategy, to not only protect themselves and their comrades, they can also trap and defeat multiply opponents with their mind alone. They only need some powerhouses to execute their plans- which they do.
The Akimichi family has the brute strength, hunger and durability to assist whomever is ordering them around.
The Yamaniki family has intelligence also, but they are experts in getting information out of caught individuals, and they can take out the leaders of the rebellion pretty quickly with their mind jutsu-thus create chaos and instability within the enemies' ranks.
Together they are an, almost, unbeatable combo.
Aburame clan:
This might be the most underestimated clan in all of Konoha. We all saw what happened to Tobi’s hand all the people within the clan can perform Ninjutsu without hand seals and chakra conversion, have incredibly durability plus they are expert trackers.
Add Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, Kurenai and I have hard time imagining the Uchiha causing too many headaches. They are strong, agile and intelligence but against the strongest village of them all they would fall.The Izanagi spam was stopped when Izanami had been created, and you still need senju dna to wield it (the uchiha could have picked up senju dna during that war). Also you can’t hide the fact that they were defeated by two people, one being 13, and none of them woke up, even though they are supposed to be ninjas.
Shisue would not have entered the war and he killed himself to prevent it so naturally he would not be a part of this revolution. It would be like placing Jiraiya and Orochimaro in the village which would be overkill- Although, Orochimaro worked in some capacity for the roots, arguable, he could have helped them during the invasion, but I won’t include him.
Hiruzen:
The Hiruzen you speak off was still stronger than all his fellow Kages. That would include the 4th Kazekage, 4th raikage, Yagura/current Mizukage, and Onoki. He fought three Kage level fighters at the age of 68/69, fought for over an hour, and he possessed the most knowledge out of anybody. He would bust out a lot of techniques that would crush the majority of the clan alone. Kid Itachi dispatched Uchiha police members like they were mere fodder. Imagine what Hiruzen would do…
Forget about ANBU.They are fodder.
Danzo:
Danzo was a major threat as well- Kage level- since he also fought for the position. He could have already integrated Hashirama’s dna into himself, which would be hell for the Uchiha clan because he could keep fighting for days. Even if he didn’t, he still showcased an incredible mastery over one of his elements, and his paralysis seal alone can solo almost everyone.
More importantly, he ruled over the rootless roots; they are all specialized in the art of assassinations. They are well organized and without emotions, which means nothing would face them.
Hyuuga clan:
You left out possible the strongest clan in Konoha. The Byakugan is one of the three great eye techniques, the thing the Kumo ninjas longed for and tried to steal, but failed. The people in the clan all possessed it. They all had extended fields of vision and the ability to see through solid objects and chakra systems.
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The few who excelled within the Uchiha clan are greater than any Hyuuga, by far, but the rest are simply inferior. Note that not everybody had the sharingan let alone MS/EMS.
Nara clan + Akimichi clan + Yamanaki clan:
The Nara family has the intelligence and know-how to create a brilliant strategy, to not only protect themselves and their comrades, they can also trap and defeat multiply opponents with their mind alone. They only need some powerhouses to execute their plans- which they do.
The Akimichi family has the brute strength, hunger and durability to assist whomever is ordering them around.
The Yamaniki family has intelligence also, but they are experts in getting information out of caught individuals, and they can take out the leaders of the rebellion pretty quickly with their mind jutsu-thus create chaos and instability within the enemies' ranks.
Together they are an, almost, unbeatable combo.
Aburame clan:
This might be the most underestimated clan in all of Konoha. We all saw what happened to Tobi’s hand all the people within the clan can perform Ninjutsu without hand seals and chakra conversion, have incredibly durability plus they are expert trackers.
Add Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, Kurenai and I have hard time imagining the Uchiha causing too many headaches. They are strong, agile and intelligence but against the strongest village of them all they would fall.The Izanagi spam was stopped when Izanami had been created, and you still need senju dna to wield it (the uchiha could have picked up senju dna during that war). Also you can’t hide the fact that they were defeated by two people, one being 13, and none of them woke up, even though they are supposed to be ninjas.
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Blaze Release
Active member
Come to think of it you are right about shisui's other eye, although im still nto certain. Anyway this thread was based upon if shisui participated in the clan's plan for a coup, therefore he is included
My mistake i meant pre rennigan tobi, forgive me :noc:
Didnt state all uchiha's can use it. What im trying to say is that in such a situation they would be prepared to use it if needed after all it was said to be used in a fight when they couldnt afford to lose and i believe this scenario, a coup is a fight they cannot afford to lose
The title was COULD, not WOULD. Im just claifying what tobi said when he said if the clan had went along with the plan they would shake the very foundations of konoha and i believe this. I also dont believe they wouldve won and thats why i said could
The hype was to further back my claim. We dont have enough info on the clan or should i say indivudals apart from the few, but the fact that the clan had such hype, i had to include it
Mark Uzumaki
Active member
Could they have overcome people like Jiraiya , Hiruzen , Danzo & Orochimaru (I don't know if he defected at that time ) ?
These 3 ( excluding orochimaru ) were definately stronger than 13 year old Itachi who wiped the so called strong threatening clan.
+ Hyuga clan + guy + kakashi + asuma + choza , shika's father etc....
These 3 ( excluding orochimaru ) were definately stronger than 13 year old Itachi who wiped the so called strong threatening clan.
+ Hyuga clan + guy + kakashi + asuma + choza , shika's father etc....
Blaze Release
Active member
We dont know enough of the other clans or their members for me to include them although you are right i shouldve, but that wouldve made the thread even longer and nb have a reading problem
This was based on shisui agreeing with the coup, therefore he was there. But even if we go by what you say, he wouldnt be much of a factor although his eyes wouldve helped alot
The old man was still strong, but being stronger than your opponent doesnt gurantee a win, Hiruzen might be stronger than the A but he cannot deal with his speed at such an age therefore he would lose to him, lets not get off topic though
Danzo was a fodder. He had about 10 sharingan's and still got fodderized by sasuke. If he didnt have those 10 sharingan's he would be long dead because of izanagi. If he was killed 11 times within a space of less than 10 minutes when he had 10 sharingans and mokuton, what makes you think that if he didnt have those 10 sharigans and mokuton he would be trouble.
Nice list of clans youve there and i admit i forgot to add them, but i have a feeling that you think if the coup went ahead in wouldve been in the day time when everybody knew what was going on and they were ready. If its a coup and itachi had not revealed what was going on, konoha wouldve been taken on my surprise by the strongest clan. It couldve easily happened at night and the same way itachi and tobi slaughtered the uchiha clan, they could do the same to konoha, if anything they have more members and not just 2.
You also mentioned all those clan yet forget 7 people ( konan included), wrecked havoc. This was an element of surprise and the same wouldve been the coup
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NarutoKage2
Active member
Well the idea is that he did not participate.
np, that's what i thought.
Yes, that is correct because this is such a situation but the point is how many of them actually could have used that tech, not whether the circumstances would have required it or not. I believe that the majority of the clan members did not know of either Izanagi or Izanami. One proof of this is the massive number of sharingans Tobi has stored with himself plus the 10 or 11 Danzo had. Neither of them would have had so many if the Uchihas knew about those techs as the sharingan eye gets closed forever after using Izanagi/Izanami.
Agree with this.
Still does'nt prove much, as the Uchiha clan being strong once does'st mean it will remain that way etc.
ItachiSan03
Active member
Kurama2012
Active member
shisui most likely would not fight as he fought for the village like itaichi and its not about if they succeeded it is about not wanting a war as im not sure if they could achieve what you say but they would be in a cival war and who knows when that would end so dont just think becasuse the village took action to prevent it that they did it out of concern that the uchiha would take over but to keep peace in the village as tobi said that it would spur other villages to attack also weakening the village the only way the uchiha could take down the village is going about it as itaichi did to them by assignation of the top dogs but ultimately i think they could not succeed as they overestimate there name and the fact that two of the best uchiha fight for the village