The two FORGOTTEN KKG/Genetic Abilities of the Uchiha and the Hyuga

Reviewing Logic

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The two FORGOTTEN KKG/Genetic Abilities of the Uchiha and the Hyuga -- Susanoo and GF

So we ALL know that the Databooks are sometime inaccurate in forgetting certain KKGs, moves, affinities, etc...
Gentle Fist is a KKG. I'm not going to bother bringing up the databooks, since they have so many errors in them, like not listing Zetsu as a Wood user, not listing Obito as a Rikudo Chakra user, and not listing Uzumaki Chains as a KKG, but it's more than apparent that it is based on Himawari using it as soon as she got Byakugan (while Bolt is unable to do so due to having no Byakugan).


The Laziness also extends to balancing future point rankings and scaling since end game characters in speed/taijutsu/etc... are beyond the so called 5/5 part 1 rankings.


But I digress.


This thread is about something else that people tend to forget. The two genetically abilities from two dojutsu clans that rely on their said dojutsu to awaken it but don't require the said dojutsu to use it in the future.


This are abilities that are known and spammed about in multiple discussion but unfortunately poorly understood when it comes to it's requirements.

What do I mean by this?


Well first let us look at the Uchiha.


So the Uchiha are known primarily for their dojutsu the Sharingan.
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The Uchiha awaken the Sharingan and go through three primary stages before ascending to MS.
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Once they unlock the MS they have a ton of abilities at their wake, but one particular feature stands high above the rest and that is the SUSANOO

Once the legendary Susanoo is awakened it too goes through stages before it becomes a PERFECT Susanoo, sometimes not seeing its perfect form until the user overused their MS and proceeded to switch out their old eyes for a new light the EMS.

But here is when we see something that is usually unnoticed. After unlocking the MS the user may also awaken the Susanoo.
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Usually talked about as the third power.
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I mean the Databook and wikis don't mention it as a KKG but NO ONE other then the UCHIHA can do a Susanoo

The closets thing is a chakra avatar but Susanoo is something else entirely.

This is were I get to the POINT of this THREAD. Once unlocking the Susanoo the Uchiha has no need of the sharingan in order to use it.

If this only applies to having a PS or not is unknown but we saw Madara go through the stages, nevertheless.
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We learnt that the Uchiha awaken the Sharingan via their brain releasing a special chakra.
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This trigger can also be what later unlocks the Susanoo.


But after meeting the requirements of having MS which enables the User to use Susanoo the Uchiha user can still use the Susanoo while not having any Sharingans in thier eye sockets.


As seen when Madara got revived.
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This also means that each Susanoo is special per each Uchiha user. Hence why when Sasuke did EMS with Itachi's eyes he did not have Itachi's Yata mirror Susanoo.

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And in some case it also explains why Itachi and Sasuke being nearly blind could STILL use their respective Susanoo's.


But you are probably asking as to how Kakashi got to use Obito's Susanoo if it was about the Uchiha user himself and not his eyes that are needed to use Susanoo after its MS awakening.

Some may argue that when Kakashi got both of Obitio's MS temporary then it was enough to justify the use of Susanoo and that if ANY user stole some MSs' that unlocked Susanoo before, they could also be able to use it.


That is a misunderstanding.



The REAL reason as two why Kakashi was able to do so was because Obito's own spirit and conscious was inside Kakashi, hence he received the necessary brain/mind/chakra requirements in order to use it.
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Which means that no non Uchiha would be able to use Susanoo with borrowed MS eyes without having in some way that Uchiha's consciousness/brain.

and I don't mean chakra since some chakra does come with the Sharingan eyes as seen via Danzou.
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So YES that means that if theoretically Sasuke gave his MS eyes to Sumire out of nostalgia of remembering his past, she would not have his Susanoo.
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That will also mean that no FUTURE Uchiha would have a Susanoo like their predecessor, unless that person is a reincarnation of that old Uchiha.

Like Sasuke being Indra's reincarnation and being able to use Indra's ARROW.
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Therefore the Susanoo is basically its own jutsu/KKG that is added to the Uchiha genetic arsenal.


SO BE GRATEFUL UCHIHA! You can take the Susanoo to the GRAVE.
:sigar:
--------------------------------
Now to the Hyuga.

Exactly like the Susanoo the Hyuga have a genetic/jutsu that is barred to only their ancestral make up.

When the Hyuga eventually unlock the Byakugan by what ever means they also unlock the ability to use Gentle Fist.


Now don't be confused (Like a bunch usually are) with the taijutsu style the Gentle Fist.

What I mean is the genetical ability to release chakra from any point and have that chakra be able to seal, destroy, boost, etc... a users and themselves chakra network.


With conjunction of the Byakugan's insight to see the Chakra network, the Hyuga merged the two abilities in one by connecting the two with a martial style called the Gentle Fist.

The KKG that is used with conjunction of the byakugan actually has no name and the abilities itself is showcased via other byakugan genetic users. (Note I say genetic users instead of just byakugan users but I will explain that soon enough.)

So I will call it "GF" and the taijutsu arts that is learnt to use it "Gentle Fist".


Like the Susanoo needed a MS awakening trigger to eventually use it (even without having the sharingan anymore in your body) the GF shared a similar awakening.

When Himawari awoken the Byakugan at the Age of Three she also awakened the ability to use GF.
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Even though she did not ever learn the Gentle Fist fighting style just seconds after awakening her eyes she was able to seal chakra points effectively.
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This is also AGAIN expressed in Itachi Shiden with a individual far down the Hyuga tree that only awakened a byakugan via one eye (due to having mixed genes, barely any Hyuga blood left in his family).

Still even though he wasn't part of the clan he was still able to use the GF and self taught himself even the Gentle Fist style. All be it a weaker one.

Reference:


This is later concluded that the GF is a genetic based ability when we see a user with a similar one eye byakugan scenario from another village not being able to do GF do to the fact that his eye was implanted and stolen.

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On the topic of Boruto himself could do it though there are two factors to consider.


1. He is half Hyuga and a Pure half no less so like his sister his potiential of having both "KKG"/Genes is there
2. He might've just learnt the Gentle Fist Fighting style from Hanabi and his Mother (like How Hanabi said that he was slacking on his Gentle Fist training at home.)

This means that he doesn't have the chakra abilities like his sister but he can fight with that said style without doing the said abilities.


AN EXAMPLE of the DIFFERENCE

USING REAL GF
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NOT USING REAL GF


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USING
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NOT USING
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3. He knows how to do it but he can't hit chakra points, etc... because he is missing the other piece of the puzzle the byakugan.


Anyway in conclusion BOTH abilities are separate jutsu that are based of DNA of each CLAN

They can not be copied and they can not be as easily taken by just stealing the Clan's dojutsu.


What you would have to do is take some DNA as well.
and that is something for Orochimaru to decide :Sparks:






Any way thank you for getting this far in the OP.

Here is your REWARD:
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Styles

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Not everyone with Hashirama's DNA can use Mokuton be they Zetsu(who were human beings) or regular shinobi(Orochimaru Sasuke somewhat Naruto)

Chakra chains probably isn't a KKG either since only Kushina and Karin have it. GF also isn't a KKG it's taught.

Also an Uchiha using Susano'o without eye's is still a KKG. Their brain still have the chakra necessary to use it.
 
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Jiren

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I think someone with Byakugan can easily learn gentle fist. I think its harder to use effectively without it. Himiwari probably watched her mommy fight and try to immitate her but better.
 

Reviewing Logic

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Not everyone with Hashirama's DNA can use Mokuton be they Zetsu(who were human beings) or regular shinobi(Orochimaru Sasuke somewhat Naruto)

Chakra chains probably isn't a KKG either since only Kushina and Karin have it. GF also isn't a KKG.

Also an Uchiha using Susano'o without eye's is still a KKG. Their brain still have the chakra necessary to use it.
lol read the OP

by "KKG I mean some prime factor that is needed beyond the eye that someone from either clan can use

in this case for the Uchiha the brain or consciousness

which means if a person popped in MS sharingans in their eyes and were not a Uchiha they wouldn't be able to use Susanoo let alone that former MS users Susanoo


it is all in the OP
I think someone with Byakugan can easily learn gentle fist. I think its harder to use effectively without it. Himiwari probably watched her mommy fight and try to immitate her but better.
I don't think so

Ao had a considerate amount of time to learn it but he was only able to use the byakugan insight

while that anbu who had Hyuga DNA didn't even learn it via the Hyuugas but self taught himself while only being able to awaken one byakugan and not two

also doing the same emitting chakra and hitting a chakra point or even knowing how it looks like without ever having a byakugan makes it impossible to copy a few seconds in after getting the eyes
 

Jiren

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lol read the OP

by "KKG I mean some prime factor that is needed beyond the eye that someone from either clan can use

in this case for the Uchiha the brain or consciousness

which means if a person popped in MS sharingans in their eyes and were not a Uchiha they wouldn't be able to use Susanoo let alone that former MS users Susanoo


it is all in the OP

I don't think so

Ao had a considerate amount of time to learn it but he was only able to use the byakugan insight

while that anbu who had Hyuga DNA didn't even learn it via the Hyuugas but self taught himself while only being able to awaken one byakugan and not two

also doing the same emitting chakra and hitting a chakra point or even knowing how it looks like without ever having a byakugan makes it impossible to copy a few seconds in after getting the eyes

Nothing says ao can or can't learn gentle fist. It's not like he is on friendly terms with the Hyuuga or had someone to teach him.
 

Reviewing Logic

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Nothing says ao can or can't learn gentle fist. It's not like he is on friendly terms with the Hyuuga or had someone to teach him.

neither was the anbu guy in Itachi Shiden

Ao likely couldn't do it because he wasn't able to... He had ample time to use it in that fight against Danzou's peeps

exactly like how (even though some CES fans believe likewise) no one can seal chakra points like the Hyuga or release chakra from any point in their body (chakra teneketsu release)

they can do other chakra sealing moves but not GF

and the other notion that the anbu guy taught himself and Himawari did it via instinct means that it is likely the latter


Plus Kaguya doing similar stuff but not in the Gentle Fist Tiajutsu form (as in that is the self taught fighting style)

Another feat by the anbu guy was to be able to split ninjitsu like the fireball with GF and Byakugan Insight


adding the notion of this unlocking similarity with their cousin clan the Uchiha and this isn't even something that should be odd


The gesture of implying that someone can do something since we never saw him/her try is as silly as implying that for every clan based move due to their lack of screen time
 
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unknownvillain1254

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neither was the anbu guy in Itachi Shiden

Ao likely couldn't do it because he wasn't able to... He had ample time to use it in that fight against Danzou's peeps

exactly like how (even though some CES fans believe likewise) no one can seal chakra points like the Hyuga or release chakra from any point in their body (chakra teneketsu release)

they can do other chakra sealing moves but not GF

and the other notion that the anbu guy taught himself and Himawari did it via instinct means that it is likely the latter


Plus Kaguya doing similar stuff but not in the Gentle Fist Tiajutsu form (as in that is the self taught fighting style)

Another feat by the anbu guy was to be able to split ninjitsu like the fireball with GF and Byakugan Insight


adding the notion of this unlocking similarity with their cousin clan the Uchiha and this isn't even something that should be odd


The gesture of implying that someone can do something since we never saw him/her try is as silly as implying that for every clan based move due to their lack of screen time

Hyuga rule
 

Made in Heaven

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Not everyone with Hashirama's DNA can use Mokuton be they Zetsu(who were human beings) or regular shinobi(Orochimaru Sasuke somewhat Naruto)

Chakra chains probably isn't a KKG either since only Kushina and Karin have it. GF also isn't a KKG it's taught.

Also an Uchiha using Susano'o without eye's is still a KKG. Their brain still have the chakra necessary to use it.

Zetsu have used Mokuton though. sasuke I think only got healed or w/e, didn't have his DNA altered, so thats irrelevant. And Naruto hasn't even had a full on fight since getting his Hashirama arm, same for Orochimaru

Uzumaki Chains are a KKG, that's why Karin awakened it instead of learning it. Same goes for Himawari, she didn't learn GF, she awakened it.
 

HyuugaHeir

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So we ALL know that the Databooks are sometime inaccurate in forgetting certain KKGs, moves, affinities, etc...



The Laziness also extends to balancing future point rankings and scaling since end game characters in speed/taijutsu/etc... are beyond the so called 5/5 part 1 rankings.


But I digress.


This thread is about something else that people tend to forget. The two genetically abilities from two dojutsu clans that rely on their said dojutsu to awaken it but don't require the said dojutsu to use it in the future.


This are abilities that are known and spammed about in multiple discussion but unfortunately poorly understood when it comes to it's requirements.

What do I mean by this?


Well first let us look at the Uchiha.


So the Uchiha are known primarily for their dojutsu the Sharingan.

The Uchiha awaken the Sharingan and go through three primary stages before ascending to MS.



Once they unlock the MS they have a ton of abilities at their wake, but one particular feature stands high above the rest and that is the SUSANOO

Once the legendary Susanoo is awakened it too goes through stages before it becomes a PERFECT Susanoo, sometimes not seeing its perfect form until the user overused their MS and proceeded to switch out their old eyes for a new light the EMS.

But here is when we see something that is usually unnoticed. After unlocking the MS the user may also awaken the Susanoo.


Usually talked about as the third power.



I mean the Databook and wikis don't mention it as a KKG but NO ONE other then the UCHIHA can do a Susanoo

The closets thing is a chakra avatar but Susanoo is something else entirely.

This is were I get to the POINT of this THREAD. Once unlocking the Susanoo the Uchiha has no need of the sharingan in order to use it.

If this only applies to having a PS or not is unknown but we saw Madara go through the stages, nevertheless.
You must be registered for see images

We learnt that the Uchiha awaken the Sharingan via their brain releasing a special chakra.

This trigger can also be what later unlocks the Susanoo.


But after meeting the requirements of having MS which enables the User to use Susanoo the Uchiha user can still use the Susanoo while not having any Sharingans in thier eye sockets.


As seen when Madara got revived.


This also means that each Susanoo is special per each Uchiha user. Hence why when Sasuke did EMS with Itachi's eyes he did not have Itachi's Yata mirror Susanoo.




And in some case it also explains why Itachi and Sasuke being nearly blind could STILL use their respective Susanoo's.


But you are probably asking as to how Kakashi got to use Obito's Susanoo if it was about the Uchiha user himself and not his eyes that are needed to use Susanoo after its MS awakening.

Some may argue that when Kakashi got both of Obitio's MS temporary then it was enough to justify the use of Susanoo and that if ANY user stole some MSs' that unlocked Susanoo before, they could also be able to use it.


That is a misunderstanding.



The REAL reason as two why Kakashi was able to do so was because Obito's own spirit and conscious was inside Kakashi, hence he received the necessary brain/mind/chakra requirements in order to use it.



Which means that no non Uchiha would be able to use Susanoo with borrowed MS eyes without having in some way that Uchiha's consciousness/brain.

and I don't mean chakra since some chakra does come with the Sharingan eyes as seen via Danzou.



So YES that means that if theoretically Sasuke gave his MS eyes to Sumire out of nostalgia of remembering his past, she would not have his Susanoo.


That will also mean that no FUTURE Uchiha would have a Susanoo like their predecessor, unless that person is a reincarnation of that old Uchiha.

Like Sasuke being Indra's reincarnation and being able to use Indra's ARROW.



Therefore the Susanoo is basically its own jutsu/KKG that is added to the Uchiha genetic arsenal.


SO BE GRATEFUL UCHIHA! You can take the Susanoo to the GRAVE.
:sigar:
--------------------------------
Now to the Hyuga.

Exactly like the Susanoo the Hyuga have a genetic/jutsu that is barred to only their ancestral make up.

When the Hyuga eventually unlock the Byakugan by what ever means they also unlock the ability to use Gentle Fist.


Now don't be confused (Like a bunch usually are) with the taijutsu style the Gentle Fist.

What I mean is the genetical ability to release chakra from any point and have that chakra be able to seal, destroy, boost, etc... a users and themselves chakra network.


With conjunction of the Byakugan's insight to see the Chakra network, the Hyuga merged the two abilities in one by connecting the two with a martial style called the Gentle Fist.

The KKG that is used with conjunction of the byakugan actually has no name and the abilities itself is showcased via other byakugan genetic users. (Note I say genetic users instead of just byakugan users but I will explain that soon enough.)

So I will call it "GF" and the taijutsu arts that is learnt to use it "Gentle Fist".


Like the Susanoo needed a MS awakening trigger to eventually use it (even without having the sharingan anymore in your body) the GF shared a similar awakening.

When Himawari awoken the Byakugan at the Age of Three she also awakened the ability to use GF.

Even though she did not ever learn the Gentle Fist fighting style just seconds after awakening her eyes she was able to seal chakra points effectively.

This is also AGAIN expressed in Itachi Shiden with a individual far down the Hyuga tree that only awakened a byakugan via one eye (due to having mixed genes, barely any Hyuga blood left in his family).

Still even though he wasn't part of the clan he was still able to use the GF and self taught himself even the Gentle Fist style. All be it a weaker one.

Reference:


This is later concluded that the GF is a genetic based ability when we see a user with a similar one eye byakugan scenario from another village not being able to do GF do to the fact that his eye was implanted and stolen.



On the topic of Boruto himself could do it though there are two factors to consider.


1. He is half Hyuga and a Pure half no less so like his sister his potiential of having both "KKG"/Genes is there
2. He might've just learnt the Gentle Fist Fighting style from Hanabi and his Mother (like How Hanabi said that he was slacking on his Gentle Fist training at home.)

This means that he doesn't have the chakra abilities like his sister but he can fight with that said style without doing the said abilities.



3. He knows how to do it but he can't hit chakra points, etc... because he is missing the other piece of the puzzle the byakugan.


Anyway in conclusion BOTH abilities are separate jutsu that are based of DNA of each CLAN

They can not be copied and they can not be as easily taken by just stealing the Clan's dojutsu.


What you would have to do is take some DNA as well.
and that is something for Orochimaru to decide :Sparks:






Any way thank you for getting this far in the OP.

Here is your REWARD:

I hope a handful get this. Thank You for also including the Susanoo. SOme people also miss that stuff.
 

Reviewing Logic

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I hope a handful get this. Thank You for also including the Susanoo. SOme people also miss that stuff.

I had to put in the Susanoo analogy since for some people to understand it they need to see it via their own fanbase's lenses
 

HyuugaHeir

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I had to put in the Susanoo analogy since for some people to understand it they need to see it via their own fanbase's lenses

People need to see that Gentle Fist is innate, taught and learned.Innate, that is for the chakra expulsion from every tenketsu. Taught and learned because they have a whole style they instruct themselves within the clan. GF is a bit complex that some narrow minded people cant comprehend.
 

Reviewing Logic

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People need to see that Gentle Fist is innate, taught and learned.Innate, that is for the chakra expulsion from every tenketsu. Taught and learned because they have a whole style they instruct themselves within the clan. GF is a bit complex that some narrow minded people cant comprehend.

well knowledge is power

we just need people to accept it since in the future I guarantee Boruto will go through some training with it and maybe also have byakugans for both his eyes
 

HyuugaHeir

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Nothing says ao can or can't learn gentle fist. It's not like he is on friendly terms with the Hyuuga or had someone to teach him.

He could learn GF for all we know since he and everyone can expel chakra from his hands. If someone would teach him how or lern it by himself, AO can incorporate GF with his fighting style. But all these doesn't bestow him the actual Hyuuga feat that expels chakra from every tenketsu of the body. Although ultimately, Ao learning GF doesn't make immediate sense and relevance as he is there to foil Danzou's plan only. If he were intended to be the non Hyuuga who has GF then Kishi should have easily made him so. But he never was.

Same with Boruto, he has a GF reminiscent style bec that is the kind of training sessions he gets probably from Hinata. But does he expel chakra from his hands like during fighting Hanabi? Unlikely.

GF is at least two things. The fighting style and the chakra expulsion. \
 

Reviewing Logic

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He could learn GF for all we know since he and everyone can expel chakra from his hands. If someone would teach him how or lern it by himself, AO can incorporate GF with his fighting style. But all these doesn't bestow him the actual Hyuuga feat that expels chakra from every tenketsu of the body. Although ultimately, Ao learning GF doesn't make immediate sense and relevance as he is there to foil Danzou's plan only. If he were intended to be the non Hyuuga who has GF then Kishi should have easily made him so. But he never was.

Same with Boruto, he has a GF reminiscent style bec that is the kind of training sessions he gets probably from Hinata. But does he expel chakra from his hands like during fighting Hanabi? Unlikely.

GF is at least two things. The fighting style and the chakra expulsion. \

He never was because he never can.

He had ample time to do so in his fight but was shown to only have his insight abilities.

while someone in Itachi Shiden also had a one eye byakugan but by genes and was able to do GF.

expelling chakra from one's feet and palms is dandy but in order for it to enter the tenketsu and boost,seal,damage, etc... the tenketsu you need the GF genes.

for expelling chakra out of one's body to do damage in the end will only be effective phyiscally, they can try their hardest and even add the Gentle Fist taijutsu style but in the add it will only be a CES.

Even Vacuum palm is a inner damaged ability were the user attacks their opponents inner body leaving no scratch on the outer.

This is about chakra manipulation and inner damage and not the run of the mill chakra expelling like CES and this is just the basics let alone using every other point to do things like Rotation.

There are other KKG that do inner damage like Shinos clan, etc... but chakra system abilities is a Hyuga trait.

The only thing that was closets to GF was when literally Naruto's Rasen Shuriken literally teared a tenketsu apart.


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and you can literally see how small the tenketsu is, as it is wrapped around every cell

And a RS is chaotic not refined.

The vision we usually see is a more rounded up general version but we already know that a Hyuga needs to make a tip of the needle like scenario to hit it.

Another factor to prove that it is genetical and Ao will never be able to use it is that Himawari was able to do it after seconds from unlocking her eyes.

Some people might say that she learnt it from her Mother but that is false since she wouldn't know how to expel and hit tenketsu points efficiently as we saw in the one-shot.

Plus due to lacking the byakugan she wouldn't be even able to understand what her Mother was doing let alone copy it.

This was instinct based and was also later pushed as such in the Boruto anime as Himawari being a exception.


Boruto might know how to do Gentle Fist the fighting style but not GF the gene style.

And if he can then that means he inhereted the genetic trait.

But that leads to future speculation that maybe he also has the byakugan or his eye acts like a regular byakugan as well for him to have the necessary requirement to have it unlocked in the first place. (Not using it after without the dojutsu but like MS being a awakening trigger to use Susanoo later on without the dojutsu).

Another theory would be that he unlocked the byakugan at one point in time but can't do it anymore as his eye began to mutate/evolve to what we see today.


But that is speculation, what I just believe is that he learnt the taijutsu style from his Mother and Aunt and likely they taught him it in anticipation of unlocking the byakugan and that "GF KKG" in the future.

Seeing as they didn't rule out that he has the ability to do so but instead he lacks the training.
 
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Rikudo no Sasuke

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nice thread !!
Yes, everything you said is true
eyes are the key to unlocks the Susanoo, but it remains a feature of the uchiha chakra.
shin has both mangekyou, and yet doesn't have susanoo
--------
and the same is true for hyuga's GF
 

whiteboy2345

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A Kekkei Genkai cannot be learned. If the GF is a Kekkei Genkai, Boruto shouldn't be able to use it. Thread shut down.
 

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Susanoo is a KKG ability not the KKG itself, that would be Sharingan.


And Gentle Fist is a KKG because only individuals from the Hyuga bloodline can use it.
 

whiteboy2345

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Susanoo is a KKG ability not the KKG itself, that would be Sharingan.


And Gentle Fist is a KKG because only individuals from the Hyuga bloodline can use it.

Gentle Fist isn't a KKG if Boruto can learn it. The art of precise chakra control to the tips of the finger and toes is the Kekkei Genkai, not the taijutsu art itself.
 

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Good Thread my boy, Sasuke solos
 

Made in Heaven

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Gentle Fist isn't a KKG if Boruto can learn it. The art of precise chakra control to the tips of the finger and toes is the Kekkei Genkai, not the taijutsu art itself.

Show me Bolt injecting Chakra into the network :lol Just because he's using open-palm, that doesn't mean he's using Jyuken, that was literally one of the points of the OP. Like how in Hanabi VS Bolt, both were fighting with open palms, that doesn't mean they were using the Chakra expulsion KKG . And yes, KKG can be learned, unless you're going to stupidly claim Hashirama was pulling out Wooden Dragons at the age of 10 or w/e or that Haku had instant access and mastery over his Ice style from day one :lmao:
 
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