[Theory] The True power of the Uzumaki, the origin of Senju Hashirama

[Mr Hiru]

I like the logic inside the theory. I find it quite reasonable. Now, I have something in mind where I have my doubts... it was when I took a peek onto this:

Ok, so lets begin. We all by this time have learned the true origin of Mokuton. If firstly was known as the Kekkei Genkai which was only usable by Hashirama. It was the perfect link between Earth and Water and every single other person in the series who used mokuton had either his DNA, or his face in his chest *looks at Madara*. Despite what you have you needed his DNA. And other then Mokuton Hashirama's DNA gave you ridiculous regenerative abilities, and very high chakra pools.

...which is essentially... false. And you hold half of the proof needed to prove this.

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Ashura = Yang => High Physical Energy
Indra = Yin => High Spiritual Energy

What's the problem in here?

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Fundamentally, you can only have high chakra reserves (a.k.a. STAMINA) when you have balance of both Spiritual and Physical Energy. The only reason of why Uchiha and Senju have huge scale jutsus (specially the Sage's sons transmigrants) are the lifeforce/vitality in chakra with yang affinity (Senju), and the spiritual power imbued in chakra with yin afinity (Uchiha).

Ergo, Madara and Hashirama 'may' have more chakra than other people of their clans respectively, but they don't have huge chakra reserves. They only have special chakra.

Same logic applies to Uzumaki, which (as being distant relatives to the Senju) also have Yang affinity. They hold tremendous vitality, but they don't have huge chakra reserves. There are only three known cases of Uzumaki with huge chakra reserves: Naruto, Mito and Kushina (their chakra was too special among the Uzumaki, because their chakra was special... it was quite powerful).

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<- Key page. "Apparently I was born with a particullary -strong- chakra that is well suited for suppressing the Ninetails".

...Now analyze it. "Strong chakra"? But who was the son of the Sage who inherited strong chakra?

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...Indra.

This explains the motive of why, from all the existent Uzumaki in the Clan, only Naruto, Mito and Kushina had the power to hold the Ninetails. They had enough chakra to suppress the beast.

They were the only exception that had huge chakra reserves. These three had a lot of Yin Chakra (powerful chakra) and Yang Chakra (lot of lifeforce, from their bloodline). Also, do you note something in Mito's forehead? Oh, it's nothing, it is just her Yin Seal .

Of course, these are only empiric manga facts which could both support and re-estructure your theory. So take these in mind, and (at least I hope) you understand my disagreement towards your statement referring to the Senju having huge chakra reserves (which I consider false even for the Uchiha Clan).

 

[NaruSasuRival]

I like the logic inside the theory. I find it quite reasonable. Now, I have something in mind where I have my doubts... it was when I took a peek onto this:



...which is essentially... false. And you hold half of the proof needed to prove this.

You must be registered for see images

Ashura = Yang => High Physical Energy
Indra = Yin => High Spiritual Energy

What's the problem in here?

You must be registered for see links

Fundamentally, you can only have high chakra reserves (a.k.a. STAMINA) when you have balance of both Spiritual and Physical Energy. The only reason of why Uchiha and Senju have huge scale jutsus (specially the Sage's sons transmigrants) are the lifeforce/vitality in chakra with yang affinity (Senju), and the spiritual power imbued in chakra with yin afinity (Uchiha).

Ergo, Madara and Hashirama 'may' have more chakra than other people of their clans respectively, but they don't have huge chakra reserves. They only have special chakra.

Same logic applies to Uzumaki, which (as being distant relatives to the Senju) also have Yang affinity. They hold tremendous vitality, but they don't have huge chakra reserves. There are only three known cases of Uzumaki with huge chakra reserves: Naruto, Mito and Kushina (their chakra was too special among the Uzumaki, because their chakra was special... it was quite powerful).

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<- Key page. "Apparently I was born with a particullary -strong- chakra that is well suited for suppressing the Ninetails".

...Now analyze it. "Strong chakra"? But who was the son of the Sage who inherited strong chakra?

You must be registered for see links

...Indra.

This explains the motive of why, from all the existent Uzumaki in the Clan, only Naruto, Mito and Kushina had the power to hold the Ninetails. They had enough chakra to suppress the beast.

They were the only exception that had huge chakra reserves. These three had a lot of Yin Chakra (powerful chakra) and Yang Chakra (lot of lifeforce, from their bloodline). Also, do you note something in Mito's forehead? Oh, it's nothing, it is just her Yin Seal .

Of course, these are only empiric manga facts which could both support and re-estructure your theory. So take these in mind, and (at least I hope) you understand my disagreement towards your statement referring to the Senju having huge chakra reserves (which I consider false even for the Uchiha Clan).

Nice ideas, but also a lot of flaws:

So far, we had 4 Uzumakis, and two hafl-blooded Uzumakis.

Full-Blooded Uzumakis:

(1) Mito ceratinly had huge chakra pool and also had Strong chakra along with vitality since she was jinchuriki of Kyuubi, and lived very long to see Kushina.

(2) Kushina had huge chakra pool and strong chakra along with vitality and we saw her in demonstration

(3) Karin is also a beast of chakra in terms of amount and strength. She spammed the same chains as Kushina, and she can heal herself and others by biting her skin. In my opinion, she is as strong as the other people above especially given her young age. I bet she can house Kyuubi and suppress him just like Kushina.

(4) Nagato had huge chakra pool and strong chakra pool. He chakra was huge enough to summon gedo mazou, maintain rain in the hidden rain for sensory purpose 365 days in a year, 24 hours a day. Nagato was able to Control Rinnegan, something Obito who is Uchiha couldn't even control half. As far as the Uzumakis goes, nagato has shown to be stronger than all the people above both in life force, chakra pool and chakra strength.

Half-Blooded Uzumakis:

(5) Tsunade of Senju+uzumaki: Her chakra pool is beastly and her myotic regeneration shows that she also has strong chakra. According to Jiraya, it was because of Tusnade Medical ninjutsus that Konoha won the war of her era.

(6) Naruto Uzumakis, certainly the strongest of all of them. As a baby, he hosted the Kyuubi evil chakra, and his energy was able to feed the seal enough to the point that he did not even know Kyuubi was inside him. This is the power of Naruto's chakra. There is no need to discuss how much chakra he has, and how much life force he has. He is simply in another league.

So:

Unless we have more intels on the Senju, the Uzumaki are actually more special than all the clans in the manga based on the statistic we have on the few of them that were shown so far. There is no fodder in their clan, men and women. Compared to the Uchiha, the Uzumaki, men and women are more special. I also believe we will reach the same conclusion with the Senju.

If I go even far, an uchiha needs a MS to control Kyuubi while a Baby uzumaki can suppress the Kyuubi with a seal. Now, don't misinterpret the seal because the energy that is empowering the seal come from the baby just as Kushina explained to Naruto. This is why the Kyuubi can break free if the host looses his mind.

 

[shuu]

The Uchiha's base set of abilities are things that are inherently powerful and triggered / awakened in methods unrelated to their actual work ethic. It is more about having the predisposed talent. Shinobi like Indra, Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, etc. would all have become powerhouses as long as they stayed alive, no matter what.

The Senju and Uzumaki set of abilities I feel are more in line with a power source. They are not inherently talented. They however have a potent power supply that enables them to turn hard work into something comparable. That strong and abundant chakra they have enables them to work hard, to grow themselves.

An Uchiha doesnt really have to train their sharingan that much in order to be powerful.
Senj/Uzu's don't have any one thing to train. But they are gifted with the firepower to train anything they want.

Also,

 

[Mr Hiru]

Nice ideas, but also a lot of flaws:

So far, we had 4 Uzumakis, and two hafl-blooded Uzumakis.

Full-Blooded Uzumakis:

(1) Mito ceratinly had huge chakra pool and also had Strong chakra along with vitality since she was jinchuriki of Kyuubi, and lived very long to see Kushina.

(2) Kushina had huge chakra pool and strong chakra along with vitality and we saw her in demonstration

(3) Karin is also a beast of chakra in terms of amount and strength. She spammed the same chains as Kushina, and she can heal herself and others by biting her skin. In my opinion, she is as strong as the other people above especially given her young age. I bet she can house Kyuubi and suppress him just like Kushina.

(4) Nagato had huge chakra pool and strong chakra pool. He chakra was huge enough to summon gedo mazou, maintain rain in the hidden rain for sensory purpose 365 days in a year, 24 hours a day. Nagato was able to Control Rinnegan, something Obito who is Uchiha couldn't even control half. As far as the Uzumakis goes, nagato has shown to be stronger than all the people above both in life force, chakra pool and chakra strength.

Half-Blooded Uzumakis:

(5) Tsunade of Senju+uzumaki: Her chakra pool is beastly and her myotic regeneration shows that she also has strong chakra. According to Jiraya, it was because of Tusnade Medical ninjutsus that Konoha won the war of her era.

(6) Naruto Uzumakis, certainly the strongest of all of them. As a baby, he hosted the Kyuubi evil chakra, and his energy was able to feed the seal enough to the point that he did not even know Kyuubi was inside him. This is the power of Naruto's chakra. There is no need to discuss how much chakra he has, and how much life force he has. He is simply in another league.

So:

Unless we have more intels on the Senju, the Uzumaki are actually more special than all the clans in the manga based on the statistic we have on the few of them that were shown so far. There is no fodder in their clan, men and women. Compared to the Uchiha, the Uzumaki, men and women are more special. I also believe we will reach the same conclusion with the Senju.

If I go even far, an uchiha needs a MS to control Kyuubi while a Baby uzumaki can suppress the Kyuubi with a seal. Now, don't misinterpret the seal because the energy that is empowering the seal come from the baby just as Kushina explained to Naruto. This is why the Kyuubi can break free if the host looses his mind.

Sup buddy. I took a big read onto your paragraphs, and I will answer based on things where I have doubts.

About known Uzumaki with huge chakra pools (being them full or non-full blood):

a) Mito => Yes
b) Kushina => Yes
c) Naruto? ...yes.

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So, based on Kushina statements, she and her son, aside of Mito, were the only ones with special chakra.

About Nagato: Can't say yes, can't say no. His chakra was indeed special, but it was "his chakra" or was his lean Rinnegan? We should remember at least the scale variation from the moment where Madara started to use those eyes. Nagato's techniques became a joke when seeing the full potential of the Rinnegan. From the moment I saw the true potential of the Rinnegan, I realized that Nagato's chakra was not powerful enough.

So, Nagato may have a great chakra reserves, but if this argument is only based on the scale and quantity of the jutsus he used in Konoha's invasion, then this assumption has insuficient proof to reach this conclusion. We can't conclude him having great chakra reserves, or only chakra with excees of yang affinity (the typical pattern of Uzumaki's chakra).

Karin: It may be the case. The only relationship we know between her and Kushina are the jutsu of the chains. I don't know if these two have the same quality (confront them, but I don't know who would be more powerful, or if they have the same amount of power in their chakra).

Tsunade: The amount of Uzumaki and Senju blood in her veins is way too low (1/8 Uzumaki, 1/8 Senju), ergo, her attributes are way too thinned (well, at least in terms of skills xD). I didn't count Tsunade for this reason.

Finally: I can't count Nagato, Karin and Tsunade for the time being, because at difference of those who I named in the previous post, I don't hold proof of them (at least enough to imply them in the case of having explicitely excessive chakra reserves -NAMELY STAMINA, SPIRITUAL + PHYSICAL ENERGY-).

But I have proof of Kushina speaking about her being "special" even inside the Uzumaki (this is, that not every Uzumaki have enough Yin affinity to strengthen their chakra and be able to hold Kurama in their bodies).