The term Judas.

[Mr Hiru]

I think that you are rather egocentric if you punish in such a way your favourite manga. If you haven´t heard of, Kishi does take influence from many ancient myths-stories from various religious texts and images. So, you mean taking insipiration from other cultures offends you?

What I didn't like was the "translation team"... If I was watching a manga where there are direct allusion for buddhism and christianism simultaneously (for example, Rurouni Kenshin) I would be pretty cool with it (in fact I did read this whole manga and I quite enjoyed it, it's a masterpiece). But this is Naruto, and Naruto doesn't make allusions to christianism, so that reference of *********** was out of place IMO.

I hope I'm clear with this. I'm getting kinda tired of repeating myself. If Kishimoto was the one making the allusion I would be cool, but the one who put the allusion was the translator. That's the difference.

If so, you´re a closet xenophobic. xeno means strange/unknown, meaning "being afraid of the unknown".
Hoping you´re not one, peace

Exactly. I'm not xenophobic. I'm respectful, but I'm also someone who knows when, where and how tell things properly. I thank you for being one of the few people who is really opened to analyze objectively paragraphs instead of attacking people without reason.

 

[Kronnic]

Please close this thread!!!!

 

[DarkWolf Nashoba]

Poor Kronnic, you were just trying to be helpful.

 

[N1nken]

I hope I'm clear with this. I'm getting kinda tired of repeating myself. If Kishimoto was the one making the allusion I would be cool, but the one who put the allusion was the translator. That's the difference.

And respectfully stating your opinion is completely fine. I myself agree with the notion that a Judeo-Christian reference really doesn't have any business in a Japanese manga that has never once referenced Jesus or anything involving the Christian faith. It's Westernization, really. Even though in the 4kids English dub of Pokemon, Brock saying "jelly donuts" when referring to rice cakes was the most idiotic thing a dub can do, most if not all of 4kids' audience are--well--kids. American kids who wouldn't understand what a rice cake is even if it was handed to them. And while it would have been painstakingly easier to have Obito say "traitor" instead, the term "Judas" is indeed universally known. At least to the Western audience that it's being translated for.

Additionally though, to be fair, you should have known that the moment you even said the word "atheist", problems were going to arise.

 

[Avani]

And respectfully stating your opinion is completely fine. I myself agree with the notion that a Judeo-Christian reference really doesn't have any business in a Japanese manga that has never once referenced Jesus or anything involving the Christian faith. It's Westernization, really. Even though in the 4kids English dub of Pokemon, Brock saying "jelly donuts" when referring to rice cakes was the most idiotic thing a dub can do, most if not all of 4kids' audience are--well--kids. American kids who wouldn't understand what a rice cake is even if it was handed to them. And while it would have been painstakingly easier to have Obito say "traitor" instead, the term "Judas" is indeed universally known. At least to the Western audience that it's being translated for.

Additionally though, to be fair, you should have known that the moment you even said the word "atheist", problems were going to arise.

I agree atheism shouldn't have brought in this topic. But it has nothing to do with my opinion on this or several other users.

Judas was a wrong word to chose here since it makes it really odd one out. That's the real issue. It's not universal enough either - but I digress- it doesn't fit in Narutoverse and that's important and if Kishi would have used it originally he would be flamed for inconsistency for it and had to put an explanation. While his characters maybe cliche at times he pays attention to most details and uses correct references only. The words he picks from mythology or culture are pretty specific and their stories matches with his fantasy-verse called Naruto.

Off course we got translation for free and the translators do their best and it's fan base not professionals so we should probably ignore such mistakes as long as we are clear that original manga didn't use it.

 

[Thorium]

The term 'Judas' is more than a biblical allusion. The phrase itself is used nowadays for anyone or anything (such as goats) that sells out its own kind.

I don't see anything wrong with the *********** translators deciding to use that word.

 

[alexu9696]

well do you know what happen to judas ? =D cuz i know and his death was not that nice =D

 

[Mr Hiru]

Please close this thread!!!!

Agreed... This thread no longer makes sense since apparently I transformed it in a flaming topic (not intentionally).

Poor Kronnic, you were just trying to be helpful.

yeah I know...

And respectfully stating your opinion is completely fine. I myself agree with the notion that a Judeo-Christian reference really doesn't have any business in a Japanese manga that has never once referenced Jesus or anything involving the Christian faith. It's Westernization, really. Even though in the 4kids English dub of Pokemon, Brock saying "jelly donuts" when referring to rice cakes was the most idiotic thing a dub can do, most if not all of 4kids' audience are--well--kids. American kids who wouldn't understand what a rice cake is even if it was handed to them. And while it would have been painstakingly easier to have Obito say "traitor" instead, the term "Judas" is indeed universally known. At least to the Western audience that it's being translated for.

Additionally though, to be fair, you should have known that the moment you even said the word "atheist", problems were going to arise.

Exactly my thoughts. I though people would be more tolerant to opinions inside this instance for conversation, I guess I'll just have to avoid putting relegious references myself, because no matter how hard I try to clarify my points, people won't be able to understand each other and will let themselves be driven by their emotions. That's something that makes them human after all... it's not a bad thing.

I agree atheism shouldn't have brought in this topic. But it has nothing to do with my opinion on this or several other users.

Judas was a wrong word to chose here since it makes it really odd one out. That's the real issue. It's not universal enough either - but I digress- it doesn't fit in Narutoverse and that's important and if Kishi would have used it originally he would be flamed for inconsistency for it and had to put an explanation. While his characters maybe cliche at times he pays attention to most details and uses correct references only. The words he picks from mythology or culture are pretty specific and their stories matches with his fantasy-verse called Naruto.

Off course we got translation for free and the translators do their best and it's fan base not professionals so we should probably ignore such mistakes as long as we are clear that original manga didn't use it.

And even I knew that did *********** try to say with it... but it wasn't inside of my personal likeable words for this manga.

 

[Hunty]

does that mean other religions exist in naruto?

They do seem to focus on a religion, just not clear what the name is though.

 

[Mr Hiru]

They do seem to focus on a religion, just not clear what the name is though.

Naruto makes direct references to Shintoism, Buddhism and Taoism, that is, Japanese religions.

 

[6PathsofKami]

Chill out its just a name which is used on traitors. Anyways atheists that get offended because of these terms are stupid I mean seriously you stop respecting *********** because of that? That sh*t is funny.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

It's just *********** trying to sound "poetic"

 

[Honord Sage]

Words have meaning if their to stand for something. Do not be like the Politically Correct crowded who cant' stand the meaning of words and seek to change definitions because they seek not to offend others. Ideas and terms will always offend someone who is unwilling to debate Ideas out of fear that they may influence people.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Chill out its just a name which is used on traitors. Anyways atheists that get offended because of these terms are stupid I mean seriously you stop respecting *********** because of that? That sh*t is funny.

It's something alike, but it's not because of the terms or because of the religions. It's because the original manga doesn't make references to Christianism, so the translation is out of place.

PS: Did you read the paragraph highlighted with bolded red words? By the feel in your words, it seems not.

Words have meaning if their to stand for something. Do not be like the Politically Correct crowded who cant' stand the meaning of words and seek to change definitions because they seek not to offend others. Ideas and terms will always offend someone who is unwilling to debate Ideas out of fear that they may influence people.

Well, I can't do anything about that my friend. At least I'm decent enough to tell my statements, be honest, be unique, and not lacking respect (at least on purpose). It's up to people to objectively read my statements... if they feel offended, I'm sorry, but that is not my intention.

Believe me, the day when every person follow a standard to talk in real life or in forums (for example, having to accept each term/reference no matter the original culture being exposed) the culture essence will dissappear. I don't like to practice Judo on a Karate Dojo, you know.

 

[Smd]

Thanks for clarifying.

I was catolic, but now I'm atheist. I'm not a "believer".

For that reason, I lost respect *********** for a week. It made me feel like Naruto was influenced by Western religious culture for a Week... yuck.

how can you go from catholic to atheist? never heard of it.

dont think you were, btw

catholic religion didnt come from "Western culture"

You read the bible? :devil:

who really hasnt at least once.

Meh, I prefer the translation "Traitor", fit a little bit more with Sasuke.

me too

Wow so he can say something disrespectful like this and no one bats an eye
But I say faqget and everyone loses their minds

samething with that word nig ger or nigga

highly offensive, but yet allowed on NB

But let me call a mod a ***get or somethin like that and im banned for a year

bashing relgioin is the thing to do on NB. didnt you know?

the rules need to be scraped and re made, because they arnt made to keep order.

im convicent.

 

[6PathsofKami]

It's something alike, but it's not because of the terms or because of the religions. It's because the original manga doesn't make references to Christianism, so the translation is out of place.

PS: Did you read the paragraph highlighted with bolded red words? By the feel in your words, it seems not.

Yeah I did read it but my point is does it really matter? Everyone uses the name to describe a traitor so I doubt anyone is bothered about it even if there isn't christianity in the Manga.

 

[Mr Hiru]

how can you go from catholic to atheist? never heard of it.

dont think you were, btw

catholic religion didnt come from "Western culture"

Used to be years ago, but an incident happened and I just lost all faith left. Now I only believe in the power of my own hands to build my future.

The word "culture" makes reference to the way of life a determinated group of people have. You're right when you state that the catholic religion didn't come from western culture, but its mostly taught in that group of people (did I tell catholic came from the western culture? If I did, then it was my mistake. If I didn't, then I don't quite understand why you said it).

bashing relgioin is the thing to do on NB. didnt you know?

the rules need to be scraped and re made, because they arnt made to keep order.

im convicent.

I totally agree here. But we have to trust in the power of our mods to take their own decisions too, based on common sense. So if someone did really feel offended by some comment, that person should just report the 'offensive' post and then see if the post really is breaking any rule.

 

[Sasuke2]

I use to read it everyday but not as much.

Poor person...

 

[veggetta13]

I hope I'm clear with this. I'm getting kinda tired of repeating myself. If Kishimoto was the one making the allusion I would be cool, but the one who put the allusion was the translator. That's the difference.



Exactly. I'm not xenophobic. I'm respectful, but I'm also someone who knows when, where and how tell things properly. I thank you for being one of the few people who is really opened to analyze objectively paragraphs instead of attacking people without reason.

I read most of your replies. I´m cool, and yeah, the translator did mess up a lil. I knew since I read the manga discussions as such would bounce heheheh immediately

 

[narutoblitz]

I live in Japan, and I can tell you that the term is merely a bad translation. Very few people in Japan, probably including Kishimoto, really knows much about Christianity. The Japanese kicked out the Christian missionaries (quite sensibly, IMO) and killed most of their political leadership.

I doubt Kishimoto or many other Japanese would understand the term "Judas"