Just wondering though, am I the only person who doesn't think sasuke has unlocked PS (or at least equivalent of what madara showed to gokage) yet? I feel that Kishi would have put more emphasis on Sasuke unlocking PS if he had already done it
The thread was very in detail and I actually like it so you are saying that madara hast yet actually achieved the PS but Sasuke with further training will be able to gain the perfect susanoo and the analyse and detail you pt in this thread are mind blowing Great Work + Rep
Just wondering though, am I the only person who doesn't think sasuke has unlocked PS (or at least equivalent of what madara showed to gokage) yet? I feel that Kishi would have put more emphasis on Sasuke unlocking PS if he had already done it
Good theory. Though I don't really believe the gulf between Madara and Sasuke to be that huge in the end. At least when determining ocular power. Though the legend of Susano'o is quite interesting. Nunoboko's destruction, is a very good jumping off point as to Sasuke's potential with this blade, if he can learn to utilize Senjutsu on his own, it will be monstrous. Perhaps Madara's statement(s) were lacking due to the fact that his KS did not possess an influx of natural energy. The markings on the elder sons eyes may perhaps hint at this. And Sage Sasuke has been foreshadowed through cover art and his association with natural energy through Juugo.
This was approximately word for word what my response was.
OT: I Enjoyed this thread not only for it's overall idealism and your in-depth personality trait to pay attention to the most minuscule aspects of the manga but while I was reading I used your information throughout the passage to conjure my own personal theory that Madara does not have the meritorious "Perfect" Susanoo in which he preaches about and as soon as I opened the last spoiler there it was. This Theory was not only enormously supported but beautifully written. I have come to an understanding that you, Robot with Human Hair and myself have common ideals. I would love to see more. You two have made everything I said in this thread simply ad-lib and jargon.
Senjutsu doesn't work on the outside unless Naruto does that thing, but he obviously didn't because he didn't concentrate and or Obito didn't turn into a frog. Senjutsu doesn't work anyways really, so that's how I know it was all sasuke. As you stated with both of them attacking with senjutsu amaterasu and senjutsu TBB they had no effect.
This was approximately word for word what my response was.
OT: I Enjoyed this thread not only for it's overall idealism and your in-depth personality trait to pay attention to the most minuscule aspects of the manga but while I was reading I used your information throughout the passage to conjure my own personal theory that Madara does not have the meritorious "Perfect" Susanoo in which he preaches about and as soon as I opened the last spoiler there it was. This Theory was not only enormously supported but beautifully written. I have come to an understanding that you, Robot with Human Hair and myself have common ideals. I would love to see more. You two have made everything I said in this thread simply ad-lib and jargon.
Senjutsu doesn't work on the outside unless Naruto does that thing, but he obviously didn't because he didn't concentrate and or Obito didn't turn into a frog. Senjutsu doesn't work anyways really, so that's how I know it was all sasuke. As you stated with both of them attacking with senjutsu amaterasu and senjutsu TBB they had no effect.
Obito wouldn't turn into frog because he hasn't yet been shown to absorb any chakra on his own. Besides, absorbing senjutsu (nature energy + chakra) didn't turn preta path into stone, absorbing pure nature energy did.
Naruto's senjutsu prevented the sword from being nullified; nonetheless, the Susanoo sword was the major factor considering that the V3 Susanoo sword + senjutsu couldn't dent regular Onmyoudon.
Thanks, was actually hoping to get this thread out earlier, but it took far longer than I thought it would to write up.
Obito wouldn't turn into frog because he hasn't yet been shown to absorb any chakra on his own. Besides, absorbing senjutsu (nature energy + chakra) didn't turn preta path into stone, absorbing pure nature energy did.
Naruto's senjutsu prevented the sword from being nullified; nonetheless, the Susanoo sword was the major factor considering that the V3 Susanoo sword + senjutsu couldn't dent regular Onmyoudon.
Senjutsu didn't play a part in Sasuke's attack. Senjutsu doesn't work on the outside. It has to be created with senjutsu and sense sasuke sword isn't created with senjutsu it wasn't covered in senjutsu chakra.
Senjutsu didn't play a part in Sasuke's attack. Senjutsu doesn't work on the outside. It has to be created with senjutsu and sense sasuke sword isn't created with senjutsu it wasn't covered in senjutsu chakra.
It must have been present as the sword would have been erased if it wasn't. Naruto would have channeled senjutsu from the interior of to the Susanoo-Kyuubi complex to the blade. Despite this, Sasuke's blade did the bulk effort in terms of destroying the sword of Nunoboko.
Senjutsu didn't play a part in Sasuke's attack. Senjutsu doesn't work on the outside. It has to be created with senjutsu and sense sasuke sword isn't created with senjutsu it wasn't covered in senjutsu chakra.
The attack would have largely been ineffective and erased without Naruto's Senjutsu chakra. Hence why the attack and "win" was by both of them together.
OT: Good write-up my friend. Agree with everything. If I may ask you something, can you upvote my thread on the first page? Two people down voted it and I want it to be 5 stars, if possible.
The attack would have largely been ineffective and erased without Naruto's Senjutsu chakra. Hence why the attack and "win" was by both of them together.
OT: Good write-up my friend. Agree with everything. If I may ask you something, can you upvote my thread on the first page? Two people down voted it and I want it to be 5 stars, if possible.
The events of chapter 651 marked a great step towards the heightening of Sasuke's abilities with the development of his "Perfect" Susanoo. While most readers will have focused on the design of the Susanoo-Kyuubi complex, the design of the sword of Sasuke's Susanoo is what I found most peculiar.
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At first I didn't believe that there was any significance in terms of its design, but a quick history lesson regarding the development of the weapons of Susanoo has me now thinking otherwise. Upon reflection, it isn't only the bodily structure of Susanoo that changes as it ascends its stages, but there are also marked changes in weaponry that accompany said bodily changes. This is plainly showcased in the manga (for Madara and Sasuke) between stages 1-3 of Susanoo, and the "Perfect Stage":
a) Madara
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VS.
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It's evidently clear from Madara's Susanoo development, that its weapons also develop in tandem with. In Madara's case, it's earlier stages have a sword resembling a
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, while its "Perfect" stage has a sword resembling a katana-like blade.
b) Sasuke
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VS.
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The development of Sasuke's Susanoo weapons, like Madara's showcases the same trend. Earlier stages have a katana-like design, while the "Perfect" stage wields the unknown design showcased in chapter 651. The fact that Sasuke's earlier stages start out with this katana-like design that isn't showcased until Madara's "Perfect" stage, should be noted and will be discussed further on.
Based on the development of the swords of Madara's and Sasuke's Susanoo, it can be said that there is a definitive relationship between the stages of Susanoo and the weaponry used. In essence, the power of the sword of a Susanoo, is a product of the power of the Susanoo.
Part 2 - The Story of the Perfect Susanoo
One comment that Madara made about his "Perfect" Susanoo that I didn't actually pay much attention to originally was this statement (this is the viz translation):
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Originally I believed (and not unwisely) that this was Madara hyping up his on capabilities, but after analyzing another statement that he made in regards to his "Perfect" Susanoo, I wonder if these were originally his own words. Madara talks more about the strength of his "Perfect" Susanoo here:
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Madara says that "It's said that anyone who sees that [The "Perfect" Susanoo] dies". What I find interesting about this statement is that Madara's is stating that there is a sort of legend of the "Perfect" Susanoo that is said by shinobi who aren't him. What the dawned on me after reading this statement was who were the shinobi that saw the "Perfect" Susanoo outside of Hashirama? It's interesting because Madara didn't even consider two kage level shinobi (Muu and Onoki) worthy of seeing the "Perfect" Susanoo. It's especially even more interesting because someone of Onoki's age would have at least heard of rumors of this "Perfect" Susanoo if it were a tale passed by shinobi (other than Hashirama) who had seen it. Due to this, I'm led to believe that Madara either fibbed about anyone even mentioning this story, or that this tale was actually written down in some ancient Uchiha scrolls. Certain evidences in the manga make me believe that the latter is the case.
Prior to the 5 kage summit, Tobi (Obito) believed that Sasuke had the potential to surpass Nagato, and even planned on linking him up with the Gedo statue. What's more interesting is Tobi's statement here:
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Tobi talks of the Susanoo ability being a rarity and later during Sasuke's fight with Danzou, he speaks of "Sasuke's version [of Susanoo]". What I find interesting about these statements is that they seem to allude to some body of knowledge regarding the abilities (and rarity) of Susanoo. The only potential Susanoo that Tobi could have seen was Itachi's and even then it's unlikely that Itachi would showcase the full extent of his powers in front of Tobi. Interestingly enough, it could even be said that Itachi even knowing the name of he technique in the first place alludes to him (and other MS users) learning it from some sort of ancient text(s).
The strong likelihood of such text(s) existing adds fire to the claim that Madara may have heard of the story of the "Perfect Susanoo from said text(s). There's distinct possibility that these text(s) were created by the direct descendent of the Elder Son, or those of his era, but that's a subject for a different day....
One interesting thing with regards to this is that the Uchiha stone tablet had statues of Tengu on both sides(difficult to see in this scan):
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Based on these evidences, I'm led to believe that there is a high chance that Madara's story regarding the power of the Perfect Susanoo may have came from some sort of ancient text(s).
Part 3 - A "w/w" Analysis of Madara and Sasuke's Susanoo
Before the content of the previous parts are woven together, the feats of the same level of Madara's and Sasuke's Susanoo should be analyzed; particularly the feats in regards to the damage done by their respective swords:
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VS.
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While the consideration should be taken that clones of Madara were used in the above scan, it should also be noted that Madara's chakra output is large enough to use a "Perfect" Susanoo, so those clone Susanoo shouldn't have been bottle-necked in any severe way. I don't that it's a coincidence that Kishimoto has shown Sasuke's level of the same Susanoo to have superior strength to Madara's.
As noted in part 1, one interesting thing to notice is that design of the blade of Sasuke's earlier stage Susanoo are similar to Madara's "Perfect" Susanoo stage:
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The designs are similar, and I believe that there is a reason for this....
In another interesting point to make was that Madara claimed (a claim that I believe was based off an ancient text) that his Susanoo's sword had the capability to "smash all things in this universe". This quote used in conjunction with Madara's Susanoo feat proved to be untrue based on the following:
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In addition to this point, the sword of Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo breaking the fabled sword of Nunoboko is also critical. Even though Naruto's Senjutsu was added to the sword, the sword itself needed to be strong in order to break the sword of Nunoboko. Previously, Sasuke's complete Susanoo sword which was enhanced by Senjutsu struck Obito's Onymodon technique, but no damage was done to it:
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The fact that Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo blade was able to break the sword that "created the world" implies that it has grand capabilities.
All of this leads into the next part.
Part 4- Weaving it all Together
Now, how do all these concepts come together? It's actually quite simple.
I'm of the belief that the similar design shared between the earlier stages of Sasuke's Susanoo and Madara's Perfect Susanoo are not coincidental. That and the large gulf in destructive feats between the V3 stages of Madara's and Sasuke's Susanoo are meant to show that Sasuke's Susanoo of the same level are more powerful than Madara's.
I'm also led to believe that the ancient text(s) in which Madara likely read that described the "Perfect" Susanoo may not have been in reference to his Susanoo which I believe may be not be "Perfect", but in reference to a level of Susanoo that Sasuke will/has achieved. This is why I believe that Madara incorrectly believes/believed that his Susanoo has/had the capability to "smash all things in the universe". The more complex design showcased in chapter 651 of Sasuke's Susanoo is in my belief a way for Kishimoto to show the enhanced capabilities of Sasuke's Susanoo sword and his Susanoo as a whole. I believe that there is a possibility that the gulf in capabilities between Sasuke's and Madara's Perfect Susanoo could be some what akin to the gulf shown between their V3 level Susanoo.
All kinds of excellent character analysis here Adeshina. I've had intuition that Sasuke's Susano weaponry is a sort of character development marker for where he is at in surpassing Madara, but you found the words and took it to another level! =D
Well done, can't think of anybody that could have said it better!
Read through the entire thing. Nice explanation on Sasuke's Sword and the interpretation of the "destruction incarnated" statement. It may have been a misinterpretation of sorts; the EMS seems to deciphers the text to its closest meaning. Only the Rinnegan would be able to fully decipher it I suppose.
All kinds of excellent character analysis here Adeshina. I've had intuition that Sasuke's Susano weaponry is a sort of character development marker for where he is at in surpassing Madara, but you found the words and took it to another level! =D
Well done, can't think of anybody that could have said it better!
Read through the entire thing. Nice explanation on Sasuke's Sword and the interpretation of the "destruction incarnated" statement. It may have been a misinterpretation of sorts; the EMS seems to deciphers the text to its closest meaning. Only the Rinnegan would be able to fully decipher it I suppose.
