[Theory] The Sharingan & Mokuton both originate from the Juubi… NOT THE SAGE.

[Frankenstein]

What if I told you that that was Obito's mokuton through the Juubi as he is the one controlling it.

 

[saw2097]

Well the Rinnegan had to come from somewhere.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

What if I told you that that was Obito's mokuton through the Juubi as he is the one controlling it.

Then I would remind you that the BODY of the Juubi is the Demonic Statue, which is obviously MADE OF WOOD. The Demonic Statue was grown/maintained by the Gedo Mazou Plant itself, which was cultivated from Hashirama's own cells. Hell, the same plant that maintained the "body" of the Juubi also created ALL THE ZETSU, which are literally plants.



DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE JUUBI DOESNT HAVE ITS OWN WOOD RELEASE?!? LMAO

 

[Meowazziel]

THEORY: The “Eyes” and “Body” of the Sage… are actually the “Eye” and “Body” of the Juubi…!

After the release of Manga 602, I now theorize that both the Uchiha & Senju Clan’s Kekkei Genkai (Sharingan & Mokuton) originate from the Juubi—NOT THE SAGE. This would most likely mean the Sage’s sons were NOT born until after he had already become the Juubi Jinchurriki. Once the Sage became the Jinchurriki (of the 10 Tails), he later passed on the traits (power) of the Juubi’s EYES & BODY to his two sons, respectively.

Note: This theory does NOT assume the Sage of Six Paths also obtained his Rinnegan from the Juubi, FYI. (I have no idea whether the Rinnegan originated from the Juubi or not, but I assume not. I think the Rinnegan (without Sharingan) is unique to the Sage himself, not the Juubi Eye.)

IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ, PLEASE SKIP TO SUMMARY AT THE END OF THE THREAD

1. Body of the Juubi = Mokuton
2. Eye of the Juubi = Sharingan

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1. The Gedo Mazou is the new Vessel of the Juubi, cultivated from Hashirama’s DNA

Spoiler

1a. The “Gedo” Mazou (Demonic Statue) and the Mazou Plant (in Tobi’s hideout) are intimately linked

Spoiler

Link #1: Tobi refers to Gedo as “The Mazou”

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Link #2: The Plant at Madara/Obito’s hideout is called “The Mazou”

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Current Tobi tells the allied forces (Link #1) that he will not let them touch the “Mazou”. Elder Madara tells Obito here (Link #2) “If I don’t keep on absorbing chakra from that Mazou…”, thus linking the “Mazou” name to the root plant growing in his hideout & the Gedo itself.

1b. The Mazou plant was grown from Hashirama’s DNA

Spoiler

Link #1: Living Tissue of Hashirama

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Link #2: Half of Obito is Hashirama’s body

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On this page (link #1), “Tobi” confirms that the Mazou plant was something he “grew from the LIVING TISSUE” of Hashirama. Although the DNA is “mindless”, it is definetally from Hashirama, and it is obviously giving life to the Mazou plant itself.

On the second link (#2), we see that elder madara is growing multiple body clones from the Mazou plant. Furthermore, elder Madara describes the clone “body” used to heal obito’s wound as “Hashirama’s artificial body”. Hence the plant itself is refered to as Hashirama’s DNA.

1c. The Root Stem of the Mazou Plant is connected to the Gedo Mazou itself (Heretical Demon Statue)

Spoiler

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Small note here. Manga shows that the lifeline of the Gedo itself is connected to the Mazou Plant.

1d. The Gedo Mazou’s body is created/made of wood

Spoiler

Link #1: The Back of the Gedo Mazou is growing a tree trunk

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It can easily be assumed that the body of the Gedo is made from wood, just by looking at the “skin” of the Gedo itself. It obviously looks like the bark of a tree. This manga (Link #1) shows the reader a wonderful view of the current Gedo Mazou’s entire body—it literally has a tree trunk growing out of its back.
Note: It closely resembles the same thing (tree) that grew out of Danzou when he lost control of the chakra implanted inside him from Hashirama’s DNA (in his arm).


Link #2: Outline of the Juubi’s Body looks like the Gedo Mazou’s body (its shadow)

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If you compare the Gedo’s body to the Juubi, on BOTH of their backs appears to be a large outgrowth of the beginning of a tree. The Gedo’s body (its back, specifically) looks exactly like the sillouette (shadow) of the 10 Tail Juubi in the 2nd manga link, minus the tails. In other words, the Gedo Mazou looks like an IMPERFECT version of the Juubi itself.

1e. The Gedo Mazou is the vessel (body) used to revive the Juubi

Spoiler

Link #1: Obito initiates 10 Tails revival (ritual)

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Link #2: Kakashi calls the Mazou “the Vessel of the Ten Tails”

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During the Mazou’s transformation, Obito proclaims in this manga (link #1) that “The Ten-Tails has been Revived!!!” Kakashi, in understanding the ritual, tells the reader (link #2) that the “Mazou is the Vessel of the Ten-Tails!” So Kakashi, “Tobi” and Karuma claim that the coming of the Juubi marks the beginning and end of this world. This is affirmed after Obito collects chakra from all 9 Bijuu into the Gedo Mazou itself, and then the Mazou starts its transformation into the Juubi. During the transformation ritual, Obito claims that he will not allow the allied forces to touch the Mazou until the transformation (to revive the Juubi) is complete.

Thus, we conclude that the Gedo Mazou is the Vessel of the Juubi itself, and that the Gedo was created from the original Mazou Plant (in elder Madara’s hideout) which was cultivated by growning DNA Madara obtained from Hashirama during his battle.

2. The Juubi has the Sharingan; but in a more advanced form (9 tomoe)

Spoiler

Special Note: At no point am I saying that the Juubi had the Rinnegan (that the Sage had). I am saying he had a more developed version of the Uchiha sharingan with 9 tomoe instead of 3. But the Juubi (obviously) looks like he has a variation of it though, with 9 sharingan on the circles and a red retina instead of the purple color seen by Nagato/Madara/Obito.

2a. The Juubi Eye had 9 “sharingan” tomoes… before the Uchiha Clan existed

Spoiler

The Juubi Eye, with 9 tomoe

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It is a known fact that the Uchiha Clan is descendent of the Elder Son of the Sage of Six Paths. This literally means their lineage did not begin until after the Elder Son had children, but the Juubi is obviously older than the Elder Son. This proves that the Juubi did not receive his sharingan from the Uchiha, but more than likely it is vice/versa, and the Elder Son passed down traits of the Sharingan inherited from the Juubi itself (through the Sage).

2b. The sharingan is a progressive power, increasing in ability with increase in tomoe

Spoiler

History of Sharingan Tomoe:

For the Uchiha, the Sharingan is not automatically activated in the user by birth. It is only first unlocked under some stressful or emotional condition after which the Sharingan may be used freely. The wielder of the Sharingan, through continued use and training, changes its form further, which involves gaining more tomoe up to a maximum of three per eye. As the Sharingan develops, the user gains heightened abilities through the heightened ocular sense.


3 Tomoe (matured sharingan): Sasuke

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As the Sharingan evolves, gaining more tomoe seals, this ability extends to being able to track fast-moving objects before finally giving some amount of predictive capabilities to the user, allowing them to see the image of an attacker’s next move from the slightest muscle tension in their body and counterattack or dodge without any wasted movement. This is illustrated in Sasuke’s fight against Naruto at the Valley of the End (link #3), when Sasuke says “…his (Naruto) movements that I couldn’t catch before, I can see them! The image of his next movement appears clearly before my eyes!”

Note: Sharingan users can at least copy hand movements with one tomoe, predict a person's movement and copy techniques with two and completely use the Sharingan's abilities when it is fully matured. As you can see, more tomoe equals a more developed/mature sharingan. The Uchiha tomoe limit is 3, although the Juubi is shown with the most mature Sharingan Eye to date, having NINE.

2c. The Sage has never been seen with the Rinnegan outside of being the Juubi Jinchurriki

Spoiler

Sage with Rinnegan, AFTER he became the Jinchurriki

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“Tobi” tells us here that the Sage “developed a certain ninjutsu in order to protect the world from the Juubi… the SEAL that creates a jinchurriki… he sealed the Juubi into his own body”. This only proves that he knew SEALING techniques, which do not require the Rinnegan at all. All “Rinnegan” jutsu performed by the Sage were done AFTER he was already a jinchurriki, such as Chibaku Tensei (to entomb the Juubi body, supposedly creating the moon) and Creation of All Things (to divide the Juubi chakra into the bijuu). The manga has not proved that the sage used any technique to defeat the juubi other than the sealing technique.

Thus, we conclude that the Sharingan was used by the Juubi before it was ever passed down the Uchiha Lineage, from before the clan was ever created. We also can now see that the power of the Sharingan eye gets progressively stronger/mature with the more tomoe that are awakened by the user, but the Uchiha’s tomoe limit is 3 tomoe whereas the Juubi himself has a 9 tomoe eye. Lastly, the Sage of Six Paths has NEVER been seen/known having a Sharingan eye, only the Rinnegan—this illustrates the fact that the Sharingan did NOT originate with the Sage either, the true origins of the Sharingan comes from his union with the Juubi as its Jinchurriki.

SUMMARY:

Spoiler

Juubi “Body”:
The Gedo Mazou is the Vessel of the Juubi itself, and that the Gedo was created from the original Mazou Plant (in elder Madara’s hideout) which was cultivated by growning DNA Madara obtained from Hashirama during his battle. This is possible because of Hashirama’s unique Kekkei Genkai, Mokuton.

Juubi “Eye”:
The Sharingan is an evolution of the Juubi Eye, further developed by a human user through tramatic emotional ordeals (death/HATE/life threatening situations). The sharingan’s power is developed (matured) by an increase in tomoe that correlates to an increase in the doujutsu’s POWER, presuming the Juubi had the most powerful Sharingan because of its 9 tomoe. The Sage himself never had this eye (Sharingan), and the Uchiha clan’s first ancestor was the link that passed down this eye doujutsu from the power of the Juubi absorbed by the sage himself after becoming its Jinchurriki.
]Special Note:[/B] After the Gedo Mazou received chakra from all 9 Bijuu, several of the tree-like protrusions on the statue's body began to extend/grow and its 9 eyes started to bleed… which are both physical/visual signs of Mokuton and the Sharingan, respectively.

The First Hokage, Senju Hashirama

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The Gedo Mazo is the Juubi itself. It is the empty shell of the Juubi and it was summoned from the moon by Madara.
The Mazo was used to cultivate Hashirama's cells and not the other way around.

Gratz to you (and me) for predicting the Juubi having Mokuton (I have it in my ''Juubi is boss'' theory as well ).
People who still keep denying the Juubi having Mokuton keeps surprising me tbh, cause the whole thing seems to be made out of Mokuton and Zetsu type of goo.

 

[Draxus]

Yeah you got it backwards. The Mazo grew the Hashirama cells not the other way around. The statue was summoned from the moon

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Yeah you got it backwards. The Mazo grew the Hashirama cells not the other way around. The statue was summoned from the moon

Yea I did catch that.



But the main point of this thread is the fact that Mokuton and the Sharingan originate from the Juubi, NOT SAGE.

 

[superfuzzyllama]

You wrote earlier that "The Rinnegan is natural evolution from the Sharingan though"

I DO AGREE WITH YOU, IN THEORY. But honestly this fact has never been verified by Kishi, so I refrained from including this as a part of my theory. We honestly have no idea if the Sage ever had a Sharingan before the Rinnegan. We only know that Nagato did NOT. So I cannot for sure say that the Rinnegan is a evolution of the Sharingan. But I am a fan of the idea that the Sage did NOT have the Rinnegan before he absourbed the Juubi.

And FYI Madara's Wood Clones got killed by Ooonoki's Jinton b/c the Wood Clones did NOT have the Rinnegan or its abilities. If Oonoki tries to use Jinton on the real Madara, Madara would just use the Rinnegan to absorb this technique.

And lastly, are you theorizing that The Sage had the Juubi Eye(s), and not just the Rinnegan?!? Cause pictures of the Sage with the Rinnegan do NOT show any tomoe on his eyes, FYI.

We need to know the back history of the Sage in order to understand where everything comes from because according to Obito/Madara, the Sage was the one who preached ninjutsu and teached it to all those who followed him but according to Kurama, the Juubi was the creator of everything, the one where everything started from.

In regards to the Sharingan, I believe that the Sharingan is a mutation of the Rinnegan through the Sage's elder sons descendants much like the Byakugan but we need to know if the Sage received the Rinnegan before or after he became the Juubi's jinc, knowing this will allow us to have a better understanding of how things came to be.

You have to also include the Byakugan because both the it and the Sharingan have roots to the elder son, plus all forms of ninjutsu as well.

 

[Draxus]

But the main point of this thread is the fact that Mokuton and the Sharingan originate from the Juubi, NOT SAGE.

But it's never been said in the manga that the Sage or Youngest son even had Mokuton. Hashirama is the only Senju known to have it.

 

[Naruto D Luffy]

Great theory , keep it up

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Yes, both the Sharingan and Mokuton came from the Juubi, but the Rinnegan also came from the Juubi:

The Sharingan is the eye of the Juubi

Mokuton is the body of the Juubi

The Rinnegan is both eyes and body combined into a single controlled/regulated Doujutsu that came from the Juubi:

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[valandil988]

Pretty much as Sir Derp says. I thought that was universally accepted by now lol. Jeez.

Yes, both the Sharingan and Mokuton came from the Juubi, but the Rinnegan also came from the Juubi:

The Sharingan is the eye of the Juubi

Mokuton is the body of the Juubi

The Rinnegan is both eyes and body combined into a single controlled/regulated Doujutsu that came from the Juubi:

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But this doesn't add in the possibilities of how the Byakugan fits into the scheme of things which have been discussed recently on the forum. Quite thought provoking I must say particularly with the Naruto and Hinata union suggested by Kishi.

 

[Sherlock.]

Pretty much as Sir Derp says. I thought that was universally accepted by now lol. Jeez.



But this doesn't add in the possibilities of how the Byakugan fits into the scheme of things which have been discussed recently on the forum. Quite thought provoking I must say particularly with the Naruto and Hinata union suggested by Kishi.

The SO6P's Byakugan is what The Jubbi's eye combined with to form Rinnegan.... =D =D