The Samsara Copy Wheel Eye

Yahcob13

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That's the English translation of Rinnesharingan in case some of you Sasuke fans didn't know. What does that actually mean in relation to the plot of Naruto and Boruto? Let us break that meaning down a little bit more:
The cycle of death and rebirth mirroring circle eye. That still isn't a clear definition to me so ill continue to break it down:
The eye that creates an illusion of the cycle of life and death. That is starting to make more sense but ill continue to break it down some more:
The eye that traps one in a false reality.
The Infinite Tsukuyomi.
That's pretty much the plot behind Naruto.
How does this relate to the Boruto series? I'll break down some different translations:
The mirror of death and rebirth eye.
The eye that copies infinite cycles of life and death.
The eye that allows one to live forever.

Need eye say more? Or do you just watch the anime? Perhaps you are a Sasuke fan and this concept eludes you. What I am saying is the Rinne Sharingan is relative to the karma seals.
Is the karma seal a sharingan ability?
 
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Yahcob13

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So glad I'm a Sasuke fan so that I don't understand your 123smokeweed logic.
What a coincidence I was actually having a bit while reading this pathetic post. But seriously is it a sharingan ability? Could Boruto be passively learning sharingan skills because of the karma seal?
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Not sure I get what you're saying tbh.
The Otsutsuki learned the use of karma from the rinnesharingan. Look at how the monument is setup. Could it be a means for them to draw power from the ten tails to revive themselves?
 
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Avaitto

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What a coincidence I was actually having a bit while reading this pathetic post. But seriously is it a sharingan ability? Could Boruto be passively learning sharingan skills because of the karma seal?
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The Otsutsuki learned the use of karma from the rinnesharingan. Look at how the monument is setup. Could it be a means for them to draw power from the ten tails to revive themselves?
Isn't the Karma seal like a backup file of themselves, how is that related to the Juubi or the Sharingan?

Can you explain the relation better?
 

Yahcob13

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Isn't the Karma seal like a backup file of themselves, how is that related to the Juubi or the Sharingan?

Can you explain the relation better?
Good question I'm not sure if I can with the present information but here goes nothing.
The first thing is that Madera revived himself using a Sharingan. Where did the Sharingan originate? The ten - tails...
Therefore the Juubi has the power to revive from the dead.

Hagoromo and Momoshiki were able to return from the dead and put a seal on people. They were both connected to the ten tails. Momoshiki ate a chakra fruit. Hagoromo was a jinchuriki.

If you eat a chakra fruit you receive the genetic information which was stored in the ten-tails and every ten tails has a huge rinne-sharingan on its face. So I assume that one who has eaten a chakra fruit has some Rinne Sharingan genetic information in their body.

So when an Otsutsuki who has eaten a chakra fruit gives someone a karma seal they are also passing on the genetic information from the chakra fruit which is sharingan based.

I dont think karma is dojutsu based. It makes more sense that its a yin seal like byakugo. In Boruto/Momoshiki case it appears to be a dojutsu based karma but I think its the Otsutsuki/Hyuga dynamic that makes his special.
 

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Good question I'm not sure if I can with the present information but here goes nothing.
The first thing is that Madera revived himself using a Sharingan. Where did the Sharingan originate? The ten - tails...
Therefore the Juubi has the power to revive from the dead.

Hagoromo and Momoshiki were able to return from the dead and put a seal on people. They were both connected to the ten tails. Momoshiki ate a chakra fruit. Hagoromo was a jinchuriki.

If you eat a chakra fruit you receive the genetic information which was stored in the ten-tails and every ten tails has a huge rinne-sharingan on its face. So I assume that one who has eaten a chakra fruit has some Rinne Sharingan genetic information in their body.

So when an Otsutsuki who has eaten a chakra fruit gives someone a karma seal they are also passing on the genetic information from the chakra fruit which is sharingan based.

I dont think karma is dojutsu based. It makes more sense that its a yin seal like byakugo. In Boruto/Momoshiki case it appears to be a dojutsu based karma but I think its the Otsutsuki/Hyuga dynamic that makes his special.
What Madara did was rewriting of reality and can be used to do other than 'reviving' and what you said about Karma can be related to Otsutsuki eating chakra fruit but not sure about the way you connected it with the Sharingan.

The Karma is more like turning one person to another by altering his genes and chakra.
 

Yahcob13

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What Madara did was rewriting of reality and can be used to do other than 'reviving' and what you said about Karma can be related to Otsutsuki eating chakra fruit but not sure about the way you connected it with the Sharingan.

The Karma is more like turning one person to another by altering his genes and chakra.
I think its your perception that sharingan is of Uchiha. That's not necessarily true. Sharingan is of ten-tails and we dont know what its capable of. What do we know about a rinne sharingan other than its overpowered?
 

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this isn't a question of chicken or the egg.

The Rinnesharingan is its own thing and the rest (aside from the byakugan variant) are a diluted versions of it.

Basically Rinne sharingan > Rinnegan > Mangekyu > Sharingan or Yin path
While the inverse is the Byakugan > Jougan > Tenseigan > (unknown or not a doujutsu) or Yang path

I think you are using the Yang progression rather than the Yin progression.. So no, it is not a sharingan power. Nor is Mangekyu powers sharingan powers nor Rinnegan powers are sharingan powers nor is Rinnesharingan are sharingan powers.

As for the Yang path, it is merely a hypothesis as we never truly get to see everything and all of it is based off of parallels established by The Last movie which is "What If Hamura's lineage or Yang lineage did what the Yin lineage or Madara did and combine both halves?"
 

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this isn't a question of chicken or the egg.

The Rinnesharingan is its own thing and the rest (aside from the byakugan variant) are a diluted versions of it.

Basically Rinne sharingan > Rinnegan > Mangekyu > Sharingan or Yin path
While the inverse is the Byakugan > Jougan > Tenseigan > (unknown or not a doujutsu) or Yang path

I think you are using the Yang progression rather than the Yin progression.. So no, it is not a sharingan power. Nor is Mangekyu powers sharingan powers nor Rinnegan powers are sharingan powers nor is Rinnesharingan are sharingan powers.

As for the Yang path, it is merely a hypothesis as we never truly get to see everything and all of it is based off of parallels established by The Last movie which is "What If Hamura's lineage or Yang lineage did what the Yin lineage or Madara did and combine both halves?"
Okay getting completely off subject but I don't think Hagoromo/Hamura represent yin and yang of anything. It makes more sense to me that Hagoromo embodied the ten tails and Hamura inherited the Otsutsuki half.
I agree with what you say about sharingan being variants of the rinnesharingan and we don't know everything about it. Such as where the f did it come from?
I still have some suspicion that karma is a sharingan ability based on what Ishiki said to Kawaki in the last chapter. The hole in his heart thing reminds me of Obito Uchiha. Does it feed on negative emotions? Why is it a special mark? Is that just in Kawaki's case?

Byakugo and Karma seem to be polar opposites and therefore yin and yang?
Is Sarada's sharingan yin or yang type?
 

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I don't think Hagoromo/Hamura represent yin and yang of anything
yes they do. I mean the Yin (moon) and Yang (sun) seals are proofs of that.

It makes more sense to me that Hagoromo embodied the ten tails and Hamura inherited the Otsutsuki half.
Juubi didn't exist since that is Kaguya's chakra. Same with Gedo Mazou since that is her vessel/body.
They only acquired those AFTER they've split Kaguya up into those 2 different components.

Chakra = Yin (spiritual, imagination, intangible)
Gedo Mazou = Yang (physical, tangible)

we don't know everything about it. Such as where the f did it come from?
Hopefully Ikemoto and Kodachi will gave a satisfying answer to that. Based on Ikemoto's design, I feel that the 3rd eye (also based on the religion inspiration of it) exist already. It is simply dormant. The Yin could also have a different thing as well that unlocks on top of the 3rd eye.

The hole in his heart thing reminds me of Obito Uchiha. Does it feed on negative emotions? Why is it a special mark? Is that just in Kawaki's case?
I think Ikemoto's design for Isshiki was a hint of that. His chest/heart has a big seal to it. Similar to the Yin seal on the forehead of SM users (like Hagoromo, Hashirama). Even Tsunade, mimicks that trend even though hers was a mere imitation of Hashirama's SM.

I feel as though these fruits would unlock both mind and body. It is that when the mind is unlocked, you gain the 3rd eye (which is true to the religious inspariation that it was from)

I still have some suspicion that karma is a sharingan ability based on what Ishiki said to Kawaki in the last chapter.
I think it isn't a sharingan tech. Since sharingan is based off of ninjutsu while Karma is a fuinjustu. Certainly needs to be on a Rinnegan level but again, since there is a Yin and Yang side of things, it might be possible that it is a Yang thing.

Basing things off of the evidences provided, Yin and Yang rules exist.

Hagoromo being Yin (rinnegan) while Hamura being Yang (chakra mode)
Then splits off to Uchiha (mangekyu = chakra within the mind) and Senju (Sage Mode = chakra outside of the body)

Hamura's side has the fuinjutsu based off the abilities of the Hyuga blocking off chakra paths.
Not to mention the Uzumaki being masters of fuinjutsu (which is one of the reasons why I hypothesize that the Uzumakis are from Hamura's lineage than the Senju's). Not to mention Naruto and Toneri's abilties are carbon copies of one another.

Byakugo and Karma seem to be polar opposites and therefore yin and yang?
Is Sarada's sharingan yin or yang type?
Byakugo was made to imitate SM (which is the Yang bit of Hagoromo). It was done to harness their own chakra and seal it up instead of external chakra since Tsunade couldn't do it. So it serves more of an emergency battery pack which is why the users become more resilient and powerful. Another deal with her skill is that she uses her own lifeforce to rejuvenate her own body.

So it is the same basic principle with minor differences: It is internal chakra. It uses life force for other skills.

Karma is just a seal with chakra in it. We know that if there is a massive amount of chakra, that chakra has the capability to have its own physical trait and sentience, much like the great animal sages and the tailed beasts.

Since Karma is a seal, it is contained to be used but the amount of chakra will possess its own mind. Similar to what happened to Kaguya's Karma being embedded to a white zetsu, becoming Black Zetsu.

Same goes for what happened to Naruto and the other Jins being possessed by the tailed beasts. Same goes for Boruto with Momoshiki.

Karma is a fuinjutsu. It is locked in a Yin Seal (all seals are Yin seals, even the sun seal). But it is a Yang power as it deals with something already existing rather than something that needs to exists (like ninjutsu, etc.)

I still don't know the whole hate thing? I think that was just some flair thing that Kishimoto did.
 

Yahcob13

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yes they do. I mean the Yin (moon) and Yang (sun) seals are proofs of that.
Are you referring to the yin/yang seals that Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke?

Hopefully Ikemoto and Kodachi will gave a satisfying answer to that. Based on Ikemoto's design, I feel that the 3rd eye (also based on the religion inspiration of it) exist already. It is simply dormant. The Yin could also have a different thing as well that unlocks on top of the 3rd eye.
I think the rinnesharingan represents yin and yang. I cant say much else about it right now.
I think Ikemoto's design for Isshiki was a hint of that. His chest/heart has a big seal to it. Similar to the Yin seal on the forehead of SM users (like Hagoromo, Hashirama). Even Tsunade, mimicks that trend even though hers was a mere imitation of Hashirama's SM.

I feel as though these fruits would unlock both mind and body. It is that when the mind is unlocked, you gain the 3rd eye (which is true to the religious inspariation that it was from)
I noticed the seal on his chest and back too but I don't have a clue as to what it means at this point. My guess is its a seal for a transformation.
I think it isn't a sharingan tech. Since sharingan is based off of ninjutsu while Karma is a fuinjustu. Certainly needs to be on a Rinnegan level but again, since there is a Yin and Yang side of things, it might be possible that it is a Yang thing.

Basing things off of the evidences provided, Yin and Yang rules exist.

Hagoromo being Yin (rinnegan) while Hamura being Yang (chakra mode)
Then splits off to Uchiha (mangekyu = chakra within the mind) and Senju (Sage Mode = chakra outside of the body)

Hamura's side has the fuinjutsu based off the abilities of the Hyuga blocking off chakra paths.
Not to mention the Uzumaki being masters of fuinjutsu (which is one of the reasons why I hypothesize that the Uzumakis are from Hamura's lineage than the Senju's). Not to mention Naruto and Toneri's abilties are carbon copies of one another.
Maybe its a rinnesharingan tech is what I meant to say. An ability of the chakra fruit. I feel there is an element of genetic engineering involved with the karma seal. Perhaps it has something to do with the creation of a ten tails? Or the evolution of one.
I don't understand why you think Hagoromo is yin but he is known as the Sage of Six Paths. The byakugan unlocking a chakra mode is possible based on what we learned from Toneri but to say Hamura is more yang that Hagoromo is reaching for the stars. Then again there was a star made of byakugan in the moon.
 

wanderingcactus

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Are you referring to the yin/yang seals that Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke?
no, not only that but the whole duality theme/symbol is ever present on everything in the last story arc of Shippuden. This is even driven home to the fact that Momoshiki and Kinshiki (along side Urashiki before he was axed). Which means the Otsutsuki race travel in pairs.

Also the fact that they were born twins and the whole Inda vs Asura, main family vs branch family, etc.

Yes, Yin and Yang symbolism also applies to Hagoromo and Hamura.
The seals I believe are to make them have each other's powers.
Based on parallels, we can assume that Hagoromo is the older and talented one as well as being the Yin.
This is mainly due to the fact that he has the Rinnegan and Sage Mode and is dark in complexion (characteristics of Yin). The only thing that isn't Yin about him is his masculinity. That is very Yang. Vice versa for Hamura (younger, possibly hard working instead of talented, light complexion)

Perhaps they were much like Naruto and Sasuke. They didn't have the full use of the 6 Paths and so they gave each other their chakra (similar to Obito giving Kakashi his Sharingan and Orochimaru giving Sage Mode to Sasuke through the Curse Mark).

I think the rinnesharingan represents yin and yang. I cant say much else about it right now.
That is true in a sense before The Last movie and the introduction of Hamura and the Tenseigan in general.

I believe that the Rinnegan is more (Yin-Yin+Yang) while the Tenseigan/Chakra Mode is more (Yang - Yin+Yang).
This is even further backed by the fact of the duality theme and pairing of the Otsutsuki aliens.

My guess is its a seal for a transformation.
Yeah but you'd think that since he is Yin, he'd be more mind focused than heart/body focused. Perhaps it is because he probably had a chakra fruit before as well (although that wouldn't make sense since Momoshiki is Yin and he unlocked the 3rd eye)

Transformation wouldn't be too farfetched but it is certainly unique. We did see Momoshiki transform too but that would mean that Isshiki already ate a chakra fruit then.

Maybe its a rinnesharingan tech is what I meant to say. An ability of the chakra fruit. I feel there is an element of genetic engineering involved with the karma seal. Perhaps it has something to do with the creation of a ten tails? Or the evolution of one.
Well, everything is derivative of the Rinnesharingan as it is the transcendence of every being. (basically if you're Yin, you get Yang and vice versa).

I don't understand why you think Hagoromo is yin but he is known as the Sage of Six Paths
The theme of duality. Also Hamura is a Sage of 6 Paths as well. It isn't strictly Hagoromo. Hagoromo is merely the Earth's Sage of 6 Paths and Hamura is the Moon's.

We also know that Momoshiki was using Petra path on Killer Bee and Naruto. Meaning that Momoshiki is a Path user, if not being considered a Sage himself. As to whether or not he is a So6P is questionable until he ate Kinshiki.

I'd say that pre-chakra fruit, both Momoshiki and Kinshiki were like Sasuke and Naruto. Only able to use 3 Paths max. Although we only ever saw the Petra Path being used (which is why I made a theory of the 6 Otsutsuki aliens each being a Sage of 1 Path). Then Kaguya transcended and became a Sage of 6 Paths. Then had twins where they were 3 Paths users (like Naruto and Sasuke) but put on the seals of the other to use other 3 paths that they each had making them both Sages of 6 Paths.

The byakugan unlocking a chakra mode is possible based on what we learned from Toneri
Byakugan? Or did you mean Tenseigan?
Regardless of which one, the fact that the Chakra Mode is linked to Hamura points more towards the Uzumaki and Toneri's branch family being one and the same.

Although, not quite sure how it is relevant to the topic?

As for Hamura being Yang, parallels.

yin = dark = doujutsu = talented = mature = spiritual = imagination = mind
yang = light = latent = hard working = late bloomer = physical = tangible = body

As Indra had the Mangekyu, he made ninjutsu (imagination brought to reality)
He is the older sibling, he matured faster and is more talented.
Asura had to build himself up and wait to mature and in turn had to rely on ninshu (linking himself with other people)

Hamura is on the same boat as he did not have Tenseigan until later. That is my basis on Hamura being the Yang. Also he is light AF compared to Hagoromo's darker complexion.
 
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