Great read, Great thread. Threads like these make the story even more interesting and it shows that Naruto has allot more then DBZ had to offer. In terms of story line and power. Its all made out of a myth which makes this show even cooler.
Great read, Great thread. Threads like these make the story even more interesting and it shows that Naruto has allot more then DBZ had to offer. In terms of story line and power. Its all made out of a myth which makes this show even cooler.
I do feel it's imperfect (thanks for not raging in broken English) but any opinions valid. I think the distinguishment is the eyes (toad sages have toad like eyes, snakes would carry the snake eyes, slugs... whatever slug eyes look like) and the imperfect SM would carry a feature of the animal, snake/dragon gain horns, toads gain boils, slugs would most likely be slimy. Also Oro never even received senjutsu training - he merely wanted it so I feel Kabuto's imperfect is still a giant step up from what Oro accomplished.
I'm not sure if when you asked about true sage mode and distinguishment how they became different, I feel it's because the animals all use a different aspect of nature chakra to form their SM's which even in perfect form are incomplete.
I can't really say for sure it could be broken down into so many ways I'd rather not attempt to do it as it's too soon to get too specific. As you said, it's a broad topic - this theory will be hard to complete without revelation of perfect snake SM and some backstory or at least. I'm hoping we'll see some of slug SM soon.
Hmm. Good stuff. One of the few good informative threads around here.
I don't agree with a couple of things like Kabuto having vastly increased speed. He's fast yes but it's mostly his sensory ability that helps. I've forgotten the other one or two things while typing. It'll come back to me.
I like the rest. There are a couple of things you've mentioned that shouldn't be overlooked. The necklaces on the Snake and Frog and their ages. I do believe they may have indeed interacted with the So6P. Those were good things that you mentioned but will most likely fly over some heads.
Not sure about Kabuto's Sage Mode in terms of whether or not it's perfect. He's actually very adept with it so far and there may be differences between the appearance of a dragon/snake and frog sage. It's inconclusive and doesn't really change anything whether he is or is not but it's worth considering.
All in all. Good thoughts. I'm typing this on the fly so I'll come back later with anything that I may have missed.
Just to clarify only this point in terms of the duration, SM doesn't last five minutes either. It can also be indefinite as long as natural energy is being continuously collected. The reason Kabuto is doing it is because his cells now behave like Juugo's and collect natural energy independently.
Hmm. Good stuff. One of the few good informative threads around here.
I don't agree with a couple of things like Kabuto having vastly increased speed. He's fast yes but it's mostly his sensory ability that helps. I've forgotten the other one or two things while typing. It'll come back to me.
I like the rest. There are a couple of things you've mentioned that shouldn't be overlooked. The necklaces on the Snake and Frog and their ages. I do believe they may have indeed interacted with the So6P. Those were good things that you mentioned but will most likely fly over some heads.
Not sure about Kabuto's Sage Mode in terms of whether or not it's perfect. He's actually very adept with it so far and there may be differences between the appearance of a dragon/snake and frog sage. It's inconclusive and doesn't really change anything whether he is or is not but it's worth considering.
All in all. Good thoughts. I'm typing this on the fly so I'll come back later with anything that I may have missed.
Yea as I said I'm not too sure about Kabuto's SM powers. I'm highly confident about his SM being imperfect but I think I should say that the reason I believe his strength hasn't increased but his speed has is for one the susanoo arrow dodging - sensory abilities help but Kabuto has never shown anything close to being fast and I feel if he had increased strength he'd be doing some more taijutsu although we need to wait a few chapters before saying anything conclusively.
Horrible attempt at trolling, you didn't even use the face. Regardless now you're just spamming - if you have nothing constructive to say please don't post.
I've had a theory in my head ever since seeing Naruto / Jiraiya's SM that really took off when I saw Kabuto's so I've decided to post it before waiting for more info.
Before going into the main part of the thread I'm gonna show how the two sage modes work, explain perfect / imperfect SM, and give a few of my opinions as to their relevance.
First off the two imperfect sage modes we've seen:
Imperfect sage mode has two main features -
1. Large markings on the face that go further down the body.
2. Visible change to the body's appearance, Jiraiya gains boils and toad like features while Kabuto gains horns like a dragon. Despite what some people say, Kabuto's SM is most likely imperfect (pay close attention to his sage markings, they run down to his shoulders.)
Kabuto's imperfect sage mode:
You must be registered for see images
Jiraiya's imperfect sage mode:
You must be registered for see images
On top of those two changes, the imperfect sage mode seems to be slightly weaker. I won't back this up with pictures because I feel it's a small detail and it's fairly clear if you read / watch the fights between Jiraiya and Pain and Naruto and Pain. Jutsu are bigger, physical attacks are stronger although this may only apply to toad sage mode which we'll get into.
Now for perfect sage mode - so far we've only seen one character on screen with it, Naruto. His sage mode is perfect thus stronger and the main and highly noticeable thing about this is how the effects on him are limited and the markings don't go much further than his eyes. He has full control of the nature chakra which while still affects him for the most part leaves him unchanged.
You must be registered for see images
Ok, so now we get into a more important part of this theory. The three, not two, types of sage mode.
Toad Sage Mode:
First off we have toad sage mode, we've seen plenty of it and can easily distinguish its abilities.
The first is a massive increase in strength as can be seen here, I'm using perfect sage mode as an example because it's the mode that truly matters which I'll explain later. You can see Naruto throw a gigantic Rhino HUNDREDS of feet into the air after stopping it by doing nothing by grabbing its horns while it was charging at him.
You must be registered for see images
The second benefit is the ability to sense danger, and, in the last possible second be able to react quickly enough to dodge it as seen here when Naruto quickly moves out of the way of the 3rd Raikages attack and forces him to impale himself.
You must be registered for see images
"Dragon" Sage Mode:
I consider dragon sage mode to be merely Kabuto emphasizing his surpassing of Orochimaru but for everyone's sake I'll try to stick to dragon SM. Now, Kabuto's is imperfect thus weaker than it could be but it differs greatly from toad sage mode.
I wish I could give more detail but we haven't seen enough of it to say too much, from what I can tell though it does two important things: firstly it enhances the perceptual abilities a large amount, it doesn't have the huge strength but Kabuto reacted to and dodged a much faster attack than Naruto which brings me into it's second abilities, greatly enhanced speed.
Regardless of perceptual abilitiy a susanoo arrow is insanely fast, it's been shown in the anime which gives us a full grasp of its abilities - Kabuto hasn't been known for speed and honestly without his SM's speed I feel he'd have an arrow in his chest. This picture sums up both points, I'm sorry the example isn't the best but it's only just been introduced.
You must be registered for see images
Slug Sage Mode:
It's not in the series yet but I feel it's almost guaranteed to be introduced. When Kishi heavily hints towards things, I feel it's highly likely to be shown. So far we've seen the strength increase of toad sage mode, the speed increase of dragon sage mode (both with highly increased sensor abilities) and while I have my own theories as to what slug sage mode would do I won't post them as they're most likely highly off.
If / when it comes, I will make a thread on it and restate some information from this thread and I'll be able to finish my theory with a bit of luck.
The Toad, the Snake, and the Slug:
It's a large but unnoticed theme in this anime, it's stated that Gambutana (the toad boss and an awesome guy) is more powerful than Katsuyu (a gross slug monster who's surprisingly sweet) is stronger than Manda (Orochimaru with even less emotion and Sasuke's bitterness) who is in turn stronger than Gambutana. Each of these summons identify with one of the sannin and are representative in some way of eachother.
You must be registered for see images
The reality of the situation though is that the sannin weren't the first to use these summons, in fact, their merely using the descendants of the original summons of none other than the SO6P. Before this sounds ridiculous, I want to point out the original or at least oldest of the snake / toad summons, Katsuyu's home realm has yet to be shown so I can't say anything about it:
The "sage" toad, I feel he's capable of SM even though it hasn't been shown - he seems to have taught Fuksaku who in turn taught Naruto and Jiraiya.
You must be registered for see images
The snake sage, he was the one who taught Kabuto SM and I feel he is much older than he seems, due to shedding skin snakes never appear to look too old and he seems to be the immortal white snake Hiruzen told Orochimaru a story about.
You must be registered for see images
One last note about these two, notice the necklaces on both of the sages. It tells me that they're related somehow, they could possibly be gifts from the SO6P or at the very least some way to signify that they were both his "underlings." It's a detail I can't ignore.
True Sage Mode:
I feel there's a reason the SO6P was remembered as a sage but not specifically referenced as a toad, snake, or slug sage. I feel he mastered all senjutsu if he himself hadn't created it and then taught his summons the abilities so they could use it and pass it on.
Now, as to how true sage mode is obtained, I feel that each sage mode absorbs a different part of nature based on the personalities of the sannin's summons:
Toad: The peace of it, the toads are shown as laid back and sometimes downright lazy and seem to never be too into fighting. In the pic Jiraiya is in a life and death battle with Pein but Ma' practically refuses to use genjutsu due to being embarassed.
You must be registered for see images
Snake: The evil of it, evidenced by Manda's pure and unadulderated evil. The picture is fully self explanatory.
You must be registered for see images
Slug: The good of it, evidenced by Katsuyu's abilities as a healer and lack of abilities as a true fighter coupled with her completely kind personality. I would get a picture but there are many examples of this and it's pretty obvious.
I feel true sage mode is only capable from someone who has somehow managed to master all three of the current sage modes from imperfect to perfect and then finally being able to use them in harmony to create what I feel is the sage mode the SO6P used. In terms of future development I foresee all sage modes being introduced in some way (who knows, ton ton could be a slug sage for all we know) and in terms of anyone achieving true sage mode I feel that if it happened only Naruto would be able to pull it off due to being able master perfect SM and some talk no jutsu to work the snake and slug sage into training him.
In an attempt to briefly summarize this, basically I feel the SO6P was capable of a true sage mode, he gained a toad, a snake, and a slug as summons, taught them SM, but their forms, even when in perfect forms, were still imperfect in that they didn't utilize the three types of nature chakra. The relevance to the story is there and there's a chance we'll be seeing it - most likely from Naruto although someone else could always appear.
Hope you guys enjoyed the thread, sorry it was so long, but if you read through it all I'll give you a cookie. (If you don't mind, leave a post and tell me if the pics / colors helped break up the monotony and giant wall of text this could've been a bit.)
Some further details-
1. SM increases all abilities, it just seems one is extremely enhanced and perception increase carries through to all of them.
2. I think the original animals were the SO6P's original summons due to age, knowing sage mode, and each having their own version while you'd expect sage mode to just fall into one category. Another huge thing is the animal path which seems to allow you to have multiple species of summons.
3. I doubt Naruto will hit TRUE SM without a time skip and even with that it's unlikely.
4. I think Kabuto will perfect his SM eventually but doubt he'll ever achieve perfection with it.
