soulreaper11
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rep+ but madara lived when the 3rd hokage was a child(13-15 years old) and when the 3rd hokage died he was in his 70s at the time Nagato was around kakashi's age 26 that would make madara 105-140 years old.
The Rennigan DOESNT require Senju DNA!!!
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UnrealSoul
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Can you explain these foreshadowing events?He clearly gave an explanation on why an uchiha does not need senju DNA and I agree with him.Let me ask you this question so we won't go any further.Do you think Hiruzen is the God of Shinobi as in prime hiruzen>Hashirama?
The Necromancer
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(Please don't yell at me, i haven't been following this thread since it was only 2/3 pages, i just happened to be posting this on another thread and decided to post it here too.) It's a common debate as to what kabuto did. Madara and tobi both claim that madara fought the first to gain his powers which he did before he died, and before he gained the rinnegan. However it seemed to be a surprise to madara that hashirama's face was on his chest, suggesting that he didn't have control of the cells in the first place. My thought is that he gained his cells in order to awaken the rinnegan but not to control the mokuton, and with kabuto's upgrade he was able to use the mokuton as well.
when i really think about this all i really wonder is how two brothers had different dna to begin with. they were born from the same man so they would be brothers like any other normal family with the same dna. wouldn't being an uchiha technically make you a senju as far as your blood went, and vice versa. they'd have different skills but still be from the same dna source. maybe that was explained at some time, but i do not remember it if it was. that's the only reason i think madara unlocked the rinnegan without senju dna because he all ready had it. maybe he just wanted a stronger body, and muton doesn't hurt either. its not too terrible a jutsu. i think you could be correct, either way.
It does require senju DNA and plot wise Sasuke will gain the rinnegan, how he'll get the DNA I'm not sure but Kabuto and Tobi are the prime sources from what I know. If the rinnegan didn't need senju DNA Madara wouldn't have killed himself for it.
Naruto isn't fact, it's Naruto. Second hokage chose his heir just as Sage did. It doesn't matter who's most powerful.. I know what you mean, and the elder son could have grown his ideology due to jealousy, but the deciding factor is the personaliy, not power. Just like you said, tabula rasa. One isn't born with a predestined fate, and the elder son was never predestined to be the "evil child". He could have been more powerful and not become heir, he could have been less powerful and become the heir. It's about leadership and there are so many factors that plays their parts. It's not just black and white. Kishi doesnt say who's more powerful afaik, he says simply the younger one was chosen because he thought like the sage.
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HOLD UP, there is a difference btn gettin a rennigan n becamin a so6p, lets get it rite coz a rennigan is an activated EMS while becamin a so6p is havin both senju n uchiha DNA in one esp when u cn controll them.
N enough wit wat tobi says already, they guy is a liar.
I do know the M sharigan can suck in n blow away stiff like the ultimate push n pull jutsu that pain had so can became a rennigan.
N enough wit wat tobi says already, they guy is a liar.
I do know the M sharigan can suck in n blow away stiff like the ultimate push n pull jutsu that pain had so can became a rennigan.
narutosixpath
Member
i have to say you have put lot of good points and tryed very hard to prove this, but sorry your wrong... and the reason your wrong is cause, saskue isnt gonna get the rinnegan, and naruto and saskue isnt a repeat of madara and the first or the decendents...for one thing if you read just recently, naruto vs. tailed beast, they say that he is similar to the first sage of the six path, that he is identical, so therefore nothing will be repeated, naruto will end up on top stronger and more advanced then others can comprehend, as for saskue he will ethier lose to naruto or finally change his way due to the power of good and his abilities like the first six path, if anything naruto will be able to awaken the rinnegan and take his place as the fourth sage of six paths!!!!!! i wish i could go into more details but im short on time
Nice explanation man, u covered d whole Naruto loop holes dat Kishi was makin us readers fall into, I think u shld take over from him... Nice one mate!
Yeh I agree wit u, jst as 3rd Hokage chose Minato over ORO... not bcos of power but personality and traits...
Personally, in d case of Uchihas, I think they need d bloodline of d younger brother to gain their max ability/power i.e d Rennigan as Tobi explained bcos of d thinned bloodline, d eyes hv descended from Rennigan to Sharingan and byakugan. I also think Madara got d Rennigan after obtaining Hashirama cells cos it quickens sharingan and allows it to complete d Uchiha missing dna to form to its original form of Rennigan, even though u explained otherwise.
There are only 3 ways sasuke cld get d Rennigan combining my point of view and ur point of view:
1. If gets near death experience either as he is fighting kabuto or wen he fights naruto (but tbh I think it has to be against Kabuto if he wld stand any chance of fighting naruto on d same level)
2. Or if d scroll that his Taka team mates hv got has some info about obtaining d rennigan
3. Or if he is still somehow able to obtain Hashirama dna frm ORO experiment or collect some cells frm Naruto... Most especially as Kabuto keeps talking about collecting other parts to find ur true self, he might get influenced as usual and collect either Naruto or Hash cells to complete himself....
Kishi must be mentioning all these for some reason... and I think Madara must hv also said it on d stones. And That's history repeating itself as usual.... cos Naruto and Sasuke are like YIN and YAN, so somehow d distance btwn them cant be alot wen they fight.
Or Kishi might jst make Naruto stronger anyway since he is d main character, plus d first battle btwn Sasuke and Naruto, Sauke was obviously stronger cos he was using 3 tomes of sharingan and curse seal level 2 with chidori while Naruto had only 1 tail and rasengan... so he might choose to balance out d fight with a Naruto win.
Yeh I agree wit u, jst as 3rd Hokage chose Minato over ORO... not bcos of power but personality and traits...
Personally, in d case of Uchihas, I think they need d bloodline of d younger brother to gain their max ability/power i.e d Rennigan as Tobi explained bcos of d thinned bloodline, d eyes hv descended from Rennigan to Sharingan and byakugan. I also think Madara got d Rennigan after obtaining Hashirama cells cos it quickens sharingan and allows it to complete d Uchiha missing dna to form to its original form of Rennigan, even though u explained otherwise.
There are only 3 ways sasuke cld get d Rennigan combining my point of view and ur point of view:
1. If gets near death experience either as he is fighting kabuto or wen he fights naruto (but tbh I think it has to be against Kabuto if he wld stand any chance of fighting naruto on d same level)
2. Or if d scroll that his Taka team mates hv got has some info about obtaining d rennigan
3. Or if he is still somehow able to obtain Hashirama dna frm ORO experiment or collect some cells frm Naruto... Most especially as Kabuto keeps talking about collecting other parts to find ur true self, he might get influenced as usual and collect either Naruto or Hash cells to complete himself....
Kishi must be mentioning all these for some reason... and I think Madara must hv also said it on d stones. And That's history repeating itself as usual.... cos Naruto and Sasuke are like YIN and YAN, so somehow d distance btwn them cant be alot wen they fight.
Or Kishi might jst make Naruto stronger anyway since he is d main character, plus d first battle btwn Sasuke and Naruto, Sauke was obviously stronger cos he was using 3 tomes of sharingan and curse seal level 2 with chidori while Naruto had only 1 tail and rasengan... so he might choose to balance out d fight with a Naruto win.
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Nicely done. Well-documented by the manga itself. A few questions/points:
Hashirama’s abilities:
- Points all make sense to me. Must have sucked to be his brother. Lol. They said the second hokage was powerful too, but we never saw him doing most of that stuff
EMS:
- The Uchiha can on-demand evolve their eyes, thereby summoning more power, but their eyes always go back to black. When Itachi died, his eyes were black. Why not just stay EMS all the time if they have such great chakra or the eyes don’t drain their chakra? You could argue the power of the eyes drains everyone, including the Uchiha.
Other:
- What do you think about the references to the first, second, and third paths? I thought they were talking about the 6th paths to pain at first, but then Tobi/Madara hinted that it was the reincarnation of the Sage of 6 Paths. First hokage was the first path, Madara was the second path, Pain was the third path. Naruto, the fourth path? Sasuke, the fifth path? And then the reincarnation of the Sage of 6 Paths who will be a descendant of Naruto's? Or???
- The Hyuga is another family with “visual prowess.” I wonder if the same rules apply to them. Someone should almost kill Neji and see if he evolves a sharingan. Lol
- What if Madara didn't really die (maybe just his physical body)? What if he cast a powerful gentjsu on the First Hokage that made him believe he killed Madara? Madara has hinted at the story of his death not being true before and in your post above he says that even the first hokage was "convinced" Madara was dead. Maybe during the gentjsu he snatches some of the First Hokage's cells to add to his own to make him a more complete being. But he was so badly injured that he did some kind of reincarnation jitsu like Orochimaru knew how to do and partially casts his spirit onto a different body (aka Tobi)? They also hinted at Madara possibly being able to split his spiritual self like the former Tschuzikage. Maybe that’s how Kabuto can someone him via edo tensei when he still exists as Tobi. For edo tensei, Madara’s physical body was dead and he wasn’t sealed (partially alive in the world of the living via Tobi, in fact). If this is true, Rinne tensei makes sense. It would return Madara’s spiritual form back to his body, but he couldn’t use it on himself. Needed Nagato for that
- What can you read on the Uchiha tablet when you have the rinnegan? You see the way to becoming the Sage of 6 Paths or having his full power?
Hashirama’s abilities:
- Points all make sense to me. Must have sucked to be his brother. Lol. They said the second hokage was powerful too, but we never saw him doing most of that stuff
EMS:
- The Uchiha can on-demand evolve their eyes, thereby summoning more power, but their eyes always go back to black. When Itachi died, his eyes were black. Why not just stay EMS all the time if they have such great chakra or the eyes don’t drain their chakra? You could argue the power of the eyes drains everyone, including the Uchiha.
Other:
- What do you think about the references to the first, second, and third paths? I thought they were talking about the 6th paths to pain at first, but then Tobi/Madara hinted that it was the reincarnation of the Sage of 6 Paths. First hokage was the first path, Madara was the second path, Pain was the third path. Naruto, the fourth path? Sasuke, the fifth path? And then the reincarnation of the Sage of 6 Paths who will be a descendant of Naruto's? Or???
- The Hyuga is another family with “visual prowess.” I wonder if the same rules apply to them. Someone should almost kill Neji and see if he evolves a sharingan. Lol
- What if Madara didn't really die (maybe just his physical body)? What if he cast a powerful gentjsu on the First Hokage that made him believe he killed Madara? Madara has hinted at the story of his death not being true before and in your post above he says that even the first hokage was "convinced" Madara was dead. Maybe during the gentjsu he snatches some of the First Hokage's cells to add to his own to make him a more complete being. But he was so badly injured that he did some kind of reincarnation jitsu like Orochimaru knew how to do and partially casts his spirit onto a different body (aka Tobi)? They also hinted at Madara possibly being able to split his spiritual self like the former Tschuzikage. Maybe that’s how Kabuto can someone him via edo tensei when he still exists as Tobi. For edo tensei, Madara’s physical body was dead and he wasn’t sealed (partially alive in the world of the living via Tobi, in fact). If this is true, Rinne tensei makes sense. It would return Madara’s spiritual form back to his body, but he couldn’t use it on himself. Needed Nagato for that
- What can you read on the Uchiha tablet when you have the rinnegan? You see the way to becoming the Sage of 6 Paths or having his full power?
Phoenix Down
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I've always looked at the relationship between Naruto V. Sasuke and Hashi V. Madara and thought it was going to be a mirror image after the fight at the final valley. Kishi is basically writing the Hashirama and Madara story through the younger generation. Nice breakdown.
Not everyone that has EMS can evolve their eyes to rennigan although sasuke might still get d rennigan since he is alot more like Madara but its not guaranteed as explained by Madara and Tobi.
I could bet that in d long run, Sasuke is d one that d major Uchihas r hoping on, to revive d clan as he said himself that he will restore his clan may be through d rennigan.
Even madara and Tobi's hope is on Sasuke as well bcos he knws sasuke will get d rennigan and he mentioned that Naruto is jst a pawn to help stimulate Sasuke but in d process Naruto grew alot and he is now a pain in d ass for them. But even Tobi is not sure about sasuke cos he seems unreliable since they dont know how he might turn out ltr dats y he doesnt wanna sync gedo mazo with him... Sasuke will turn out to be very very strong, but Naruto will always be stronger (by becoming SO6P).... I think Kishi is taking d story back to d beginning.... At one point Naruto and Sasuke will be exactly like d two brothers but then Naruto will advance and may be Sasuke will do Naruto a favor a nd give him his eyes dats how he becomes SO6P
I could bet that in d long run, Sasuke is d one that d major Uchihas r hoping on, to revive d clan as he said himself that he will restore his clan may be through d rennigan.
Even madara and Tobi's hope is on Sasuke as well bcos he knws sasuke will get d rennigan and he mentioned that Naruto is jst a pawn to help stimulate Sasuke but in d process Naruto grew alot and he is now a pain in d ass for them. But even Tobi is not sure about sasuke cos he seems unreliable since they dont know how he might turn out ltr dats y he doesnt wanna sync gedo mazo with him... Sasuke will turn out to be very very strong, but Naruto will always be stronger (by becoming SO6P).... I think Kishi is taking d story back to d beginning.... At one point Naruto and Sasuke will be exactly like d two brothers but then Naruto will advance and may be Sasuke will do Naruto a favor a nd give him his eyes dats how he becomes SO6P
i think that will be an amzing turn of events. but then what happens to the war afterwards. kabuto will most likely will be caught and used by the uchiha brothers and naruto will most likely get rid of tobi and finally finding out the true identity of tobi. but we still have to worry about the black zetsu or did everybody forget about him?
NarutoVsGoku
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i agree with you.. this is a great post only thing i dont agree with is that Madara did not validate that having a near death experience is what caused him to gain rinnegan but this is a great possibility that it did. its not for sure, but its plausible.
also i like how you pointed out the tablet had madaras secrets and itachi read those tablets. also the rinnegan on the forhead of the uchihca demon thing.
i agree the rinnegan doesnt need senju dna...
but than how did the Nagato get it? thats a better question.. he is neither senju nor uzamaki.
also i like how you pointed out the tablet had madaras secrets and itachi read those tablets. also the rinnegan on the forhead of the uchihca demon thing.
i agree the rinnegan doesnt need senju dna...
but than how did the Nagato get it? thats a better question.. he is neither senju nor uzamaki.
Scooby Doo
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I think Madara gained rinnegan before his death but after getting hashirama's dna...because yes, rinnegan requires both senju and uchiha blood (otherwise why would have madara bothered so much about getting shodai no dna?)
Scooby Doo
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