[Discussion] The Power Scaling of One Piece

[Punk Hazard]

What has Jozu done to indicate he can beat Doflamingo? Getting in a sneak attack on an admiral is something even Doflamingo can do.

If anything Jozu is being overrated because of one damn attack that caused a distracted admiral to bleed, ignoring that he couldn't get out his ice while Doffy could. Not to mention DD tried to treat him like a big ass couch.

And underwhelming? The guys feats are still much better than Jozus and Sabos that's for sure, but people give them the benefit because of one clash with an admiral that didn't result in them being even remotely close to winning.

Not to mention Doflamingo freed himself from a stronger version of the attack that defeated Jozu.

 

[Bogard]

Not to mention Doflamingo freed himself from a stronger version of the attack that defeated Jozu.

Only in a fanfiction

 

[OG sama]

Not to mention Doflamingo freed himself from a stronger version of the attack that defeated Jozu.

How do you know it was stronger?

I don't see how this color system is any different from calling someone Top tier or High tier.

I also dont think Marco or any of those guys except maybe Rayleigh deserve to be in the Gray, I think the gap between the admirals and Marco is bigger than it may seem.

Of course I could be wrong about this.

 

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

Disagree completely.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Btw people, Jozu>Doflamingo. How does string cut CoA diamond? What would a kick do? Doffy's parasite depends on willpower and Jozu's willpower isn't strong enough to resist parasite. Strong enough for him to not be controlled but not for breaking free. That's why Doffy never tried on Law, Luffy or Fujitora cause not only are they physically strong, they have really strong willpower.

Doffy shouldn't be stronger because of a technicality.

Curious about your stance on Doffy in regards to his reaction to Fuji and Kuzan? Doffy walked away from Kuzan yet he said he'd have to take care of Fuji after Luffy. So he clearly didn't think as high of Fuji as Kuzan.

Against Kuzan, Doffy was short on time. He had less than a day to answer Law's call and then deal with him in Dressrosa. Doffy knew that if he fought Kuzan it would've put him at a serious disadvantage regardless if he won or loss.

Against Fujitora, Doffy knows that Fujitora wont take any actions against him because of their positions. Fujitora already made that clear and Doffy simply said that dealing with Fujitora wont be easy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

How do you know it was stronger?

I don't see how this color system is any different from calling someone Top tier or High tier.

I also dont think Marco or any of those guys except maybe Rayleigh deserve to be in the Gray, I think the gap between the admirals and Marco is bigger than it may seem.

Of course I could be wrong about this.

When Kuzan froze Jozu, he created just enough to cover Jozu's body. When he froze Doflamingo, there was way more ice, covering parts of the ground and water around them.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

More like this imo

White- Sanji, Smoker, Jinbe

Off White(high tier)- Law, Zoro, Vergo, Hancock

Silver(between top and high tier but closer to high tier)- Burgess, G4 Luffy, Doflamingo

Gray(between top and high tier but closer to top tier)- Sabo, Jozu, Old Rayleigh

Black(top tiers)- Marco, Shanks, Akainu, Fujitora, Kuzan, Kaidou etc

Legendary(World strongest)- Roger, WB

I would mostly agree with this.
---
Tier in that top tier exist. You can't say someone like Old WB is on the same level as Prime WB, even considering Old WB was still top player in the world with title "Strongest Man".

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

P-TS Luffy still has a good chance against them. Luffy has always been on a higher color than them. They've all moved up by one color over the TS.

Pre TS Luffy has no chance against current Zoro or Sanji. They can casually one shot a Pacifista, which could push the entire crew to high diff before the timeskip.

 

[keshav31]

I fully agree to your view.

 

[Simpleatitsbest]

First of all, there is no such thing as admiral level, yonkou level, pirate king level etc..

In the world of One Piece, you are either a top tier or not and all top tiers are on par with each other. It took some thinking, but I've managed to break own the power scaling into a very simple format:

Black, Gray, Silver, Off White and White.

First off, this is a bit ridiculous and unnecessary, this whole "colour" system is no better than using tiers. You start off by saying there's either "top tiers or not" which makes no sense, this white category that you mention everyone else falls into has such a huge power scaling in itself, from Arlong to Krieg alone you can see a difference and yet they were both "strong" enemies at the start of the series.

Second, you say there's no such thing as admiral level, well, quite clearly there is. Kuzan and Akainu were obviously quite evenly matched and I'd go as far as to say that if Kuzan went all out he'd be on par with them too, he just doesn't have the drive the others do which has been shown and that's his personality. Now don't get wrong, within this admiral level can be different levels, just from what we've seen and in my opinion, I'd say the previous admiral trio were more or less on par with each other. Yonkou level? Again, there quite clearly is a yonkou level, these are characters that can't just simply be taken out by other Yonkou otherwise I'm sure they would have done so, not to mention the fact that we've not even seen them all so we don't know the full extent of their power, but the mere fact that they're titled should alone show that they're on a different level.

Btw people, Jozu>Doflamingo. How does string cut CoA diamond? What would a kick do? Doffy's parasite depends on willpower and Jozu's willpower isn't strong enough to resist parasite. Strong enough for him to not be controlled but not for breaking free. That's why Doffy never tried on Law, Luffy or Fujitora cause not only are they physically strong, they have really strong willpower.

Doffy shouldn't be stronger because of a technicality.

Why wouldn't he be stronger? Be that logic he could just parasite Jozu and make him walk into open water. Just because he can't get through his diamond doesn't instantly mean that he's inferior in strength. What would make him stronger is either a 1 v 1 or feats and Doflamingo has shown a lot more of those which to be quite frank, I don't think Jozu could ever do, so I think it's pretty clear that Doffy > Jozu.

How do you know Doffy's parasite works off of willpower? I don't ever remember DF abilities power scaling off willpower at all... And about the bold, technically Doffy did try and "parasite" Fujitora when he put up the birdcage, from what I can remember didn't Fuji see it coming and grab Doffy's string like some badass blind man that he is.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

First off, this is a bit ridiculous and unnecessary, this whole "colour" system is no better than using tiers. You start off by saying there's either "top tiers or not" which makes no sense, this white category that you mention everyone else falls into has such a huge power scaling in itself, from Arlong to Krieg alone you can see a difference and yet they were both "strong" enemies at the start of the series.

Second, you say there's no such thing as admiral level, well, quite clearly there is. Kuzan and Akainu were obviously quite evenly matched and I'd go as far as to say that if Kuzan went all out he'd be on par with them too, he just doesn't have the drive the others do which has been shown and that's his personality. Now don't get wrong, within this admiral level can be different levels, just from what we've seen and in my opinion, I'd say the previous admiral trio were more or less on par with each other. Yonkou level? Again, there quite clearly is a yonkou level, these are characters that can't just simply be taken out by other Yonkou otherwise I'm sure they would have done so, not to mention the fact that we've not even seen them all so we don't know the full extent of their power, but the mere fact that they're titled should alone show that they're on a different level.

Those with the rank of yonkou are on the same level with those with the rank of admiral. If Fujitora fights Big Mam or Kaidou, there is no guarantee who would win. There is no clear difference in strength which is why admiral/yonkou tier list so unstable in the first place. My version is simply to make tier systems more stable, easier and logical. An example of this is your comment talking about yonkou. The yonkous are not feared because of their solo power alone. Its because of their power, crew, allies, territories and influence. Attacking a yonkou means attacking an entire army of strong fighters which is why the yonkou and admirals dont just fight each other.

Why wouldn't he be stronger? Be that logic he could just parasite Jozu and make him walk into open water. Just because he can't get through his diamond doesn't instantly mean that he's inferior in strength. What would make him stronger is either a 1 v 1 or feats and Doflamingo has shown a lot more of those which to be quite frank, I don't think Jozu could ever do, so I think it's pretty clear that Doffy > Jozu.

How do you know Doffy's parasite works off of willpower? I don't ever remember DF abilities power scaling off willpower at all... And about the bold, technically Doffy did try and "parasite" Fujitora when he put up the birdcage, from what I can remember didn't Fuji see it coming and grab Doffy's string like some badass blind man that he is.

I never seen Fujitora react to birdcage. Without parasite, Doflamingo cant beat Jozu. He is the stronger of the two but since Jozu cant stop parasite, he cant do anything to Doffy. Doffy wins by a technicality. Luffy is way stronger than Usopp, but Usopp may have a much easier time fighting Magellan because his attacks doesn't involve physical contact(just using an example. Not saying Usopp>Magellan).

Don't know what you mean by DFs scaling off willpower. Doffy is able to easily control VA Stainless, Rebecca and Bellamy, can only restrain Jozu and Sanji and never tried to control Luffy(except when he was really weak), Law or Fujitora. Why? Because their willpower is too strong compared to Doffy's CoC.

 

[CrimsonReaper]

How can Luffy be gray while Doflamingo being silver, luffy destroyed Mingo with G4 and don't say its because Law injured him im certainly sure he was fighting Luffy with most of his strength.

 

[Simpleatitsbest]

Those with the rank of yonkou are on the same level with those with the rank of admiral. If Fujitora fights Big Mam or Kaidou, there is no guarantee who would win. There is no clear difference in strength which is why admiral/yonkou tier list so unstable in the first place. My version is simply to make tier systems more stable, easier and logical. An example of this is your comment talking about yonkou. The yonkous are not feared because of their solo power alone. Its because of their power, crew, allies, territories and influence. Attacking a yonkou means attacking an entire army of strong fighters which is why the yonkou and admirals dont just fight each other.

See, I don't agree already with your first sentence, WB was clearly superior to Akainu and so was Shanks. It took 3 admirals haki to block WB's ability (here:

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) and you can't say that they didn't all put there max power into it as it took out their HQ behind them as they weren't able to negate the ability fully and who would want to have their HQ destroyed if they could stop it. Even Rayleigh has shown to be a better haki beast in my opinion and I suppose you put them in a tier above him? Below him? or maybe in the same colour because it's not "stable" to say that Rayleigh is admiral level or otherwise.
And, I feel as though the Yonkou are portrayed to be above admiral level, Whitebeard was, Roger obviously was, BB probably is now, I mean he did tank a shockwave from Sengoku and a bit of a beat from WB, now that he's got some mastery over both his DF I bet he comes back as a force to be reckoned with... His downfall will probably be due to his characteristics :\
Also, Garp "the hero" and Sengoku "the strategist" seemed to be in pairs in their famous battles and that was usually against one opponent, Shiki for example.
I get what you mean, when you were referring to my comment, although that's not what I was trying to imply.
It's just that your new system relies on a total fan base assumption and agreement for it to work, which will never work. The manga states who is admiral, who is a yonkou, supernova etc, so why make use colours as tiers? It's just not necessary and if anything causes confusion and more effort.
I've just read this in your other thread "Never heard one character in the series call anyone admiral/yonkou/shichibukai level. That is something the fans made up", it's not made up in the slightest, these titles have been used pretty much since the beginning, it's obviously a scale of power that the author has made, with some exception of course.

I never seen Fujitora react to birdcage. Without parasite, Doflamingo cant beat Jozu. He is the stronger of the two but since Jozu cant stop parasite, he cant do anything to Doffy. Doffy wins by a technicality. Luffy is way stronger than Usopp, but Usopp may have a much easier time fighting Magellan because his attacks doesn't involve physical contact(just using an example. Not saying Usopp>Magellan).

Don't know what you mean by DFs scaling off willpower. Doffy is able to easily control VA Stainless, Rebecca and Bellamy, can only restrain Jozu and Sanji and never tried to control Luffy(except when he was really weak), Law or Fujitora. Why? Because their willpower is too strong compared to Doffy's CoC.

I will edit and reply to this in 2 minutes, trying to find that bit with Issho, I can see it so clearly in my head but I can't seem to find the chapter... Checking the anime now because I'm sure I'm not making this up, although I know it's not canon it's just to tell myself I'm not going crazy at this point.
Yeah, it was in the anime when this happened, my bad

You must be registered for see links

, and it was parasite but guess not canon...

*********
You can't just say "without parasite", it's his ability, it's like taking away Law's Room, the fact that you're saying Doffy wins by technicality, than you can say that "technically, Doffy > Jozu."

@bold - I got the impression that that's what you were implying... Which was never stated at all, so was confused. But now you're mentioning that Doffy's CoC is inferior to their willpower which causes Parasite to not work? That doesn't make sense. Conquerors hasn't been explained fully but from what I understand, you're saying that Doffy's CoC makes his parasite stronger? We've been told that haki can negate DF abilities, which is what I believe Luffy did, when he popped G4 he covered his shoulders in haki which is why parasite wore off.
And anyways, what makes you think that he could only restrain Jozu?

 

[Vandenre1ch]

How can Luffy be gray while Doflamingo being silver, luffy destroyed Mingo with G4 and don't say its because Law injured him im certainly sure he was fighting Luffy with most of his strength.

Sorry man but its a fact that Doffy was no where near 100% because of Law. Even Luffy commented on it. Even while injured Luffy couldn't beat Doffy before G4 wore off. Besides that, Doffy still managed to dodge a G4 attack and land a clean hit on Luffy(that didn't do anything because he was a balloon).

 

[TRE MERCER]

List falls apart when you claim Jozu is in a different tier from Doflamingo when DD cannonly negged him.​

 

[Vandenre1ch]

See, I don't agree already with your first sentence, WB was clearly superior to Akainu and so was Shanks. It took 3 admirals haki to block WB's ability (here:

You must be registered for see links

) and you can't say that they didn't all put there max power into it as it took out their HQ behind them as they weren't able to negate the ability fully and who would want to have their HQ destroyed if they could stop it. Even Rayleigh has shown to be a better haki beast in my opinion and I suppose you put them in a tier above him? Below him? or maybe in the same colour because it's not "stable" to say that Rayleigh is admiral level or otherwise.
And, I feel as though the Yonkou are portrayed to be above admiral level, Whitebeard was, Roger obviously was, BB probably is now, I mean he did tank a shockwave from Sengoku and a bit of a beat from WB, now that he's got some mastery over both his DF I bet he comes back as a force to be reckoned with... His downfall will probably be due to his characteristics :\
Also, Garp "the hero" and Sengoku "the strategist" seemed to be in pairs in their famous battles and that was usually against one opponent, Shiki for example.
I get what you mean, when you were referring to my comment, although that's not what I was trying to imply.
It's just that your new system relies on a total fan base assumption and agreement for it to work, which will never work. The manga states who is admiral, who is a yonkou, supernova etc, so why make use colours as tiers? It's just not necessary and if anything causes confusion and more effort.
I've just read this in your other thread "Never heard one character in the series call anyone admiral/yonkou/shichibukai level. That is something the fans made up", it's not made up in the slightest, these titles have been used pretty much since the beginning, it's obviously a scale of power that the author has made, with some exception of course.



I will edit and reply to this in 2 minutes, trying to find that bit with Issho, I can see it so clearly in my head but I can't seem to find the chapter... Checking the anime now because I'm sure I'm not making this up, although I know it's not canon it's just to tell myself I'm not going crazy at this point.
Yeah, it was in the anime when this happened, my bad

You must be registered for see links

, and it was parasite but guess not canon...

*********
You can't just say "without parasite", it's his ability, it's like taking away Law's Room, the fact that you're saying Doffy wins by technicality, than you can say that "technically, Doffy > Jozu."

@bold - I got the impression that that's what you were implying... Which was never stated at all, so was confused. But now you're mentioning that Doffy's CoC is inferior to their willpower which causes Parasite to not work? That doesn't make sense. Conquerors hasn't been explained fully but from what I understand, you're saying that Doffy's CoC makes his parasite stronger? We've been told that haki can negate DF abilities, which is what I believe Luffy did, when he popped G4 he covered his shoulders in haki which is why parasite wore off.
And anyways, what makes you think that he could only restrain Jozu?

You are using the World's Strongest Man as an example of the yonkou and Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru were confident and disrespectful when they fought him. Akainu stopped WB's gura bisento with one leg(with hands in his pockets btw). When the 3 admirals stopped WB's shockwave, they were simply making sure that do damage was done to the platform. Aokiji was hit by a shockwave and he didn't have a scratch. WB countered Akainu's magma fist with a gura punch at close range and it didn't scratch Akainu. Also, BB ran away from Akainu. He is currently the weakest yonkou.

As for the tiers, again, admiral/yonkou/shichibukai level are very unstable and illogical. Shichibukais are just a mash of pirates with influence. Strength varies between them. The strength among VAs varies a lot as well and same goes for yonkou/admirals who were portrayed to be the same level. Yonkous are the greatest pirate force and admirals are the greatest marine force. The author never made a proper scale as in "titles means this guy>that guy." The obvious example is Garp. Fan generalize characters into a tier of their pirate/marine rank where strength varies a lot from person to person.

About Doflamingo's parasite, not exactly. There are some people who cant use in on like Luffy and Law(who are weaker) and people he can use it on who are stronger(Jozu). When Doffy used parasite on Luffy when he was really WEAKENED, Luffy used G4 to literally rip the strings off with brute strength. Why couldn't Jozu se brute strength like Luffy did? Why hasn't used parasite on Law or Luffy earlier? Because he couldn't. As I said before, Jozu and Sanji struggled but Doffy never fully controlled them and Doffy didn't bother with Luffy and Law. It leads me to believe that parasite depends on the victims willpower and brute strength and Jozu had enough willpower to resist and brute strength to resist but not to escape and remember Jozu has CoA also as he wacked Croc.

List falls apart when you claim Jozu is in a different tier from Doflamingo when DD cannonly negged him.​

Let me explain: Jozu can fight strong people better than Doflamingo can. Jozu is stronger than Doffy and immune to most of Doffy's attacks but he lacks the brute strength+willpower to escape parasite.

For better one, lets use guy A, B, C and D. Guy A is the strongest and Guy D is the weakest. Guy A destroys Guy B and C while Guy D gets destroyed by Guy B and C. However, Guy A loses to Guy D because Guy D uses poison and Guy A's immune system is terrible. Guy A is stronger than Guy D but due to circumstances, he loses. In most cases. Guy A>Guy D. Jozu is Guy A and Doffy is Guy D.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

How is Jozu immune to most of Doffy's attacks? Jozu can't cover all of his body in diamond, so Doffy can just aim for whatever area he isn't covering in diamond.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

How is Jozu immune to most of Doffy's attacks? Jozu can't cover all of his body in diamond, so Doffy can just aim for whatever area he isn't covering in diamond.

You don't know that. That is very baseless.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

You don't know that. That is very baseless.

We've never seen him cover his entire body in diamond.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

We've never seen him cover his entire body in diamond.

And there is no proof that he cant.