The power of the Senju Clan explained (Third Hokage prime explained throroughly)

[Shady17]

Dude, the will of fire is not any other thing that will.

It doesnt mean that every one with the will of fire are senju they just share the same toughs

 

[TheGr8Uchiha]

Taken directly from the manga

Tsunade

"I'm the first Hokage's Hashirama descendant..But it is true that I cannot use the Mokuton...Even my medical ninja techniques cannot compare because he could use them without forming seals..what I inherited FROM THE FIRST WAS NOT STRENGTH BUT SOMETHING THAT CONTINUED FLOWING THROUGH THE AGES THATS MY REAL STRENGTH...DON"T UNDERESTIMATE THE WILL OF FIRE!!"

SHE SAID IT. It's manga fact that the Will of fire was passed down by the senju.

I also made references to Naruto that the will of fire its nothing more then a ninja never giving up which is why naruto never gives up and why tobi said the blood of the senju flows deep within him.

Your not argueing with me. Your literally argueing with the manga. You should carefully reread and analyze those pages I put up.

I carefull read your pages you put up and it clearly stated you saying the 3RD HOKAGE WAS SENJU. Just because he has the will of fire doesnt mean he is of senju descent.

 

[TheGr8Uchiha]

Dude, the will of fire is not any other thing that will.

It doesnt mean that every one with the will of fire are senju they just share the same toughs

Exactly, its like saying Orochimaru has the hatred of the Uchiha clan so he is of uchiha descent. (just giving a random example)

 

[Codex]

You bring up a lot of good examples, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What makes the will of fire so special is that it can be inherited by anybody, regardless of bloodlines.

What are Senju known for? Excepting Hashirama, not much, really. They were a strong clan, but they didn't have any defining attributes like the sharingan. They had nothing but the will of fire. And just what is this will of fire? If I had to try and define it, I'd say it's the ability attract followers, to change people and inspire them. Vague, I know, but here's what I'm getting at:

I'll turn your argument around and posit that the Senju are not actually a clan in the traditional sense. They're a group of people that shared the same ideals (the will of fire), and ultimately came to be known as a clan because they congregated together. But these people were more like disciples of the founder (the younger son), and the clan grew not only through reproduction but also by attracting new followers. They were not exclusive in their breeding and their "bloodline" was diluted (rather, it was dilute from the start), they could never be defined by a kekkei genkai or anything like that.
This is the perfect counterpart to the Uchiha. The Uchiha are connected by blood, the Senju by will.

To an Uchiha, everyone else is trash. Without the sharingan, you're less than worthless.
And unless you're an Uchiha, you can't even begin to comprehend them -- you're just not worthy (that's what I hear when Sasuke opens his mouth). These are the ideals of the elder son, and they run contrary to the So6P's beliefs. He was a teacher. He wanted to spread the "gospel" of ninjutsu, and he chose the son that had the true power to change the world -- a power that was not confined by blood. A power capable of spreading like wildfire throughout the world.

 

[TheGr8Uchiha]

You bring up a lot of good examples, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What makes the will of fire so special is that it can be inherited by anybody, regardless of bloodlines.

What are Senju known for? Excepting Hashirama, not much, really. They were a strong clan, but they didn't have any defining attributes like the sharingan. They had nothing but the will of fire. And just what is this will of fire? If I had to try and define it, I'd say it's the ability attract followers, to change people and inspire them. Vague, I know, but here's what I'm getting at:

I'll turn your argument around and posit that the Senju are not actually a clan in the traditional sense. They're a group of people that shared the same ideals (the will of fire), and ultimately came to be known as a clan because they congregated together. But these people were more like disciples of the founder (the younger son), and the clan grew not only through reproduction but also by attracting new followers. They were not exclusive in their breeding and their "bloodline" was diluted (rather, it was dilute from the start), they could never be defined by a kekkei genkai or anything like that.
This is the perfect counterpart to the Uchiha. The Uchiha are connected by blood, the Senju by will.

To an Uchiha, everyone else is trash. Without the sharingan, you're less than worthless.
And unless you're an Uchiha, you can't even begin to comprehend them -- you're just not worthy (that's what I hear when Sasuke opens his mouth). These are the ideals of the elder son, and they run contrary to the So6P's beliefs. He was a teacher. He wanted to spread the "gospel" of ninjutsu, and he chose the son that had the true power to change the world -- a power that was not confined by blood. A power capable of spreading like wildfire throughout the world.

Agreed, it doesnt make you senju if you have the will of fire..

 

[Ryuu..]

Great thread.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

Dude, the will of fire is not any other thing that will.

It doesnt mean that every one with the will of fire are senju they just share the same toughs

The will of fire was passed down by the senju thats what I said.

The Uchiha were cursed with hatred and the senju were blessed with love...

Everyone in the manga hates somebody does that make them Uchiha. No thats not the point I'm trying to make. The will of fire was passed down by the first Hokage who was the leader of the senju and the second hokage to the third Hokage who was also senju.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

Exactly, its like saying Orochimaru has the hatred of the Uchiha clan so he is of uchiha descent. (just giving a random example)

But the Uchiha are cursed with hatred...
It was stated in the manga..

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Uchiha = hatred
Senju = love will of fire

Thus Sasuke vs Naruto...

Also whats interesting is that Tobi related the Senju to Fire.

Now if we look in the dictionary we get the obvious meaning of fire..but we get something interesting.


Fire also means
Excitement, Passion, LIVELINESS

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KEYWORD LIVELINESS

SO when we say the will of fire

We are really saying the WILL OF LIFE
And what did the senju inherit??

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LIFE


Just something to think about.

 

[AntiHero]

Well guys here is more evidence from recent chapters.

In the original post I said that the village inherited the will of fire. I hypothically called this the rikodou's will. The 3rd Hokage, Jiraiya said they inherited the will of fire.

In a very recent chapter Tsunade confirmed this will of fire to in fact be the the first Hokage's will.

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She explained that she did not inherited mokuton or his healing powers but she inherited his will power also known as the will of fire.

Meaning the third Hokage and Jiraiya said they inherited the younger brother's will. If they inherited his will they must have inherited his body as well as his massive chakra..


In this panel the Hokage said he inherited the willpower of the first and second Hokage SENJUS. I repeat the WIll of the SENJU

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So we have Tsunade senju saying she inheriting the willpower of the first hokage senju and now we have jiraiya and the 3rd Hokage talking about the willpower they inherited.

This supports( I didn't said in grave) my theory that the 3rd Hokage and Jiraiya are in fact senju just like Tsunade..

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And for those who forgot let me remind you

The younger brother passed down the body, lifeforce and willpower (love) to the senju.

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Also to put in perspective the actual willpower of the Sage. Is the power to never give up and never quit which.. is how we stumble on this panel:

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"But I can tell the fire of the Senju clan dwells within you."
Tobi said that to Naruto. Naruto of the Uzamaki clan... cousin of the senju clan...

Again the willpower of the senju is too "NEVER GIVE UP."

Now I think this should be case closed and enough evidence to verify that the 3rd Hokage and the Sannin were in fact ninja of the senju clan or direct descendants.

In the most recent chapter Kabuto referred to his sage mode as being close to the rikodou's power.

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I said in the original post that sage mode, senjutsu, the jinchinrukins etc.. etc were all related.

And also look who is in the background orochimaru...

Like I said Kabuto has Orochimaru's powers. Key word Powers. Without Orochimaru's power *cough* *cough* senju's power. Kabuto would still be Kakashi's level. He needed orochimaru's massive chakra capacity and lifeforce to even handle sage mode to begin with and to perform the forbidden over hax techniques like edo tensai.

If that weren't the case then why did he need to risk his life by injecting himself with orochimaru's cells???

Mind=blown

You bring up a lot of good examples, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What makes the will of fire so special is that it can be inherited by anybody, regardless of bloodlines.

What are Senju known for? Excepting Hashirama, not much, really. They were a strong clan, but they didn't have any defining attributes like the sharingan. They had nothing but the will of fire. And just what is this will of fire? If I had to try and define it, I'd say it's the ability attract followers, to change people and inspire them. Vague, I know, but here's what I'm getting at:

I'll turn your argument around and posit that the Senju are not actually a clan in the traditional sense. They're a group of people that shared the same ideals (the will of fire), and ultimately came to be known as a clan because they congregated together. But these people were more like disciples of the founder (the younger son), and the clan grew not only through reproduction but also by attracting new followers. They were not exclusive in their breeding and their "bloodline" was diluted (rather, it was dilute from the start), they could never be defined by a kekkei genkai or anything like that.
This is the perfect counterpart to the Uchiha. The Uchiha are connected by blood, the Senju by will.

To an Uchiha, everyone else is trash. Without the sharingan, you're less than worthless.
And unless you're an Uchiha, you can't even begin to comprehend them -- you're just not worthy (that's what I hear when Sasuke opens his mouth). These are the ideals of the elder son, and they run contrary to the So6P's beliefs. He was a teacher. He wanted to spread the "gospel" of ninjutsu, and he chose the son that had the true power to change the world -- a power that was not confined by blood. A power capable of spreading like wildfire throughout the world.

You must be some kinda poet...

But the Uchiha are cursed with hatred...
It was stated in the manga..

You must be registered for see images

Uchiha = hatred
Senju = love will of fire

Thus Sasuke vs Naruto...

Also whats interesting is that Tobi related the Senju to Fire.

Now if we look in the dictionary we get the obvious meaning of fire..but we get something interesting.


Fire also means
Excitement, Passion, LIVELINESS

You must be registered for see links

KEYWORD LIVELINESS

SO when we say the will of fire

We are really saying the WILL OF LIFE
And what did the senju inherit??

You must be registered for see images

LIFE


Just something to think about.

Cant argue with manga facts....

 

[-Sky-]

O_O
Nice thread.
+rep.
That theory sure is a good one.

 

[TheGr8Uchiha]

The will of fire was passed down by the senju thats what I said.

The Uchiha were cursed with hatred and the senju were blessed with love...

Everyone in the manga hates somebody does that make them Uchiha. No thats not the point I'm trying to make. The will of fire was passed down by the first Hokage who was the leader of the senju and the second hokage to the third Hokage who was also senju.

Give me a link in the manga where it says Hiruzen is senju. Hiruzen is not senju he is from the Sarutobi clan, no where in the manga has it said that the Sarutobi clan is/are descendants of the Senju :scorps:

 

[vjrich]

You bring up a lot of good examples, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What makes the will of fire so special is that it can be inherited by anybody, regardless of bloodlines.

What are Senju known for? Excepting Hashirama, not much, really. They were a strong clan, but they didn't have any defining attributes like the sharingan. They had nothing but the will of fire. And just what is this will of fire? If I had to try and define it, I'd say it's the ability attract followers, to change people and inspire them. Vague, I know, but here's what I'm getting at:

I'll turn your argument around and posit that the Senju are not actually a clan in the traditional sense. They're a group of people that shared the same ideals (the will of fire), and ultimately came to be known as a clan because they congregated together. But these people were more like disciples of the founder (the younger son), and the clan grew not only through reproduction but also by attracting new followers. They were not exclusive in their breeding and their "bloodline" was diluted (rather, it was dilute from the start), they could never be defined by a kekkei genkai or anything like that.
This is the perfect counterpart to the Uchiha. The Uchiha are connected by blood, the Senju by will.

To an Uchiha, everyone else is trash. Without the sharingan, you're less than worthless.
And unless you're an Uchiha, you can't even begin to comprehend them -- you're just not worthy (that's what I hear when Sasuke opens his mouth). These are the ideals of the elder son, and they run contrary to the So6P's beliefs. He was a teacher. He wanted to spread the "gospel" of ninjutsu, and he chose the son that had the true power to change the world -- a power that was not confined by blood. A power capable of spreading like wildfire throughout the world.

I'm a genin around these parts… totally new to the board (so I guess that makes me an academy student, haha) but I just had to say that I totally agree with your rebuttal.

I think that Zaiigoukyou is taking the 'will of fire' mantra way too literally.

When the characters say that they've inherited the 'will of fire' they're not saying they are blood of the Senju; they're simply stating that they've inherited the Senju's belief system/morals/ideals— which is the same as Naruto's 'Way of the Ninja'— of not giving up, giving one's all to the cause and pushing oneself beyond one's limit (i.e. - When Hinata fought Neiji, and again when she tried to fight Pain, she adopted Naruto's train of thought, which is essentially the 'will of fire').

To end, I'll just reiterate that the 'Will of Fire' is simply a metaphor, nothing to be taken as literal as, say, bloodlines.

 

[Grim]

+rep.... I actualy read it

 

[Codex]

I'm a genin around these parts… totally new to the board (so I guess that makes me an academy student, haha) but I just had to say that I totally agree with your rebuttal.

I think that Zaiigoukyou is taking the 'will of fire' mantra way too literally.

When the characters say that they've inherited the 'will of fire' they're not saying they are blood of the Senju; they're simply stating that they've inherited the Senju's belief system/morals/ideals— which is the same as Naruto's 'Way of the Ninja'— of not giving up, giving one's all to the cause and pushing oneself beyond one's limit (i.e. - When Hinata fought Neiji, and again when she tried to fight Pain, she adopted Naruto's train of thought, which is essentially the 'will of fire').

To end, I'll just reiterate that the 'Will of Fire' is simply a metaphor, nothing to be taken as literal as, say, bloodlines.

Thanks! Welcome to the base. Like you, I'm a mere academy student as well. I was fairly active over on ***********'s boards before they shut down, but I've been creeping NB's forums for a while. Anywho, yeah, the will of fire has always struck me as a metaphorical concept. Actually, I always thought of it as a load of BS, but this thread got me thinking of it in a more significant context. I'll admit that perhaps the biggest argument against everything I've said (and likely the deal-breaker) is that Kushina stated the Uzumaki are distant "relatives" of the Senju, the implication being that Naruto has special blood. Honestly, I think this was a mistake on Kishi's part, as it goes against the entire first part of the series -- that your destiny is not determined by blood (think Naruto vs. Neji). But that's just my two cents.

Mind=blown


You must be some kinda poet...


Cant argue with manga facts....

lol, thanks. I'll take that as a complement , but as an engineer (no poet), I lack the social skills to determine whether that was meant to be an insult.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

+rep.... I actualy read it

thanks

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

I'm a genin around these parts… totally new to the board (so I guess that makes me an academy student, haha) but I just had to say that I totally agree with your rebuttal.

I think that Zaiigoukyou is taking the 'will of fire' mantra way too literally.

When the characters say that they've inherited the 'will of fire' they're not saying they are blood of the Senju; they're simply stating that they've inherited the Senju's belief system/morals/ideals— which is the same as Naruto's 'Way of the Ninja'— of not giving up, giving one's all to the cause and pushing oneself beyond one's limit (i.e. - When Hinata fought Neiji, and again when she tried to fight Pain, she adopted Naruto's train of thought, which is essentially the 'will of fire').

To end, I'll just reiterate that the 'Will of Fire' is simply a metaphor, nothing to be taken as literal as, say, bloodlines.

Thats not what I'm pointing out. The will of fire is the answer to Uchiha's hatred.

Then why would the manga state the brother's feeling and beliefs because they were passed down through the generations of ninja

Down to the senju of the younger brother
Uchiha from elder brother....Broteher believe in powe Uchiha have believe in power might and hatred
Senju from the younger brother inherited love, and I'm telling you its the will of fire.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

Give me a link in the manga where it says Hiruzen is senju. Hiruzen is not senju he is from the Sarutobi clan, no where in the manga has it said that the Sarutobi clan is/are descendants of the Senju :scorps:

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If we had backtracked a 100 chapters ago and I told you the Naruto is from a clan called the Uzamaki who were happen to be the cousins of the Senju you would have made this response as well even with hints and evidence provided by the manga...

 

[TheGr8Uchiha]

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If we had backtracked a 100 chapters ago and I told you the Naruto is from a clan called the Uzamaki who were happen to be the cousins of the Senju you would have made this response as well even with hints and evidence provided by the manga...

That link does not state that Hiruzen is of Senju descent. Fail. :scorps:

It adds to my argument, the link states that the will of fire is a belief of the Senju clan. Doesnt make people that believe in the will of fire, descent of the Senju. The manga has not yet stated that Hiruzen is of Senju descent.. until it does, I would be glad to be wrong.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

That link does not state that Hiruzen is of Senju descent. Fail. :scorps:

It adds to my argument, the link states that the will of fire is a belief of the Senju clan. Doesnt make people that believe in the will of fire, descent of the Senju. The manga has not yet stated that Hiruzen is of Senju descent.. until it does, I would be glad to be wrong.

Here's what the link says
The "Will of Fire" (火の意志, Hi no Ishi) is a recurring element throughout the Naruto series. It is an ideal rooting from the belief of the Senju clan ancestor that love is the key to peace.

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So first of all I'm not the only one who thinks that the will of fire originated from the rikodous himself.

Take a look here what the link also states
Sarutobi clan
"The members of this clan seem to be able to easily master high-level techniques, as Hiruzen became revered as the "God of Shinobi", and Konohamaru managed to learn A-rank techniques, such as the Rasengan, at a young age."

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Take a look here at the senju clan description
"Where other clans focused on mastering one particular skill, the Senju were masters in all skills, from ninjutsu, to taijutsu, to genjutsu."

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Take a look here at my OP


"Techniques similiar to the Rasengan, Lightning Blade and kage Bunshins were spammed."
"The Senju were chakra juggernauts and spammed the most powerful techniques and used forbidden techniques that other ninja could not use."
"You see what also made the Senju extremely powerful were the ability to use S class ninjutsu or kinjutsu with ease."


There is a relation whether you like it or not. The uzamaki clan are essentially senju if they weren't then tobi would have said Naruto I can see the uzamaki in you. No. He didn't say that......He said I can see senju in you.

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But I can tell the fire of the Senju dwells in you...

Your arguement directly argues with the manga. The fact that Naruto was related to the senju despite the fact he's an uzamamki is evidence that even though your last name may not be senju does not mean your not senju as the senju clan thinned and assimilated into the HIDDEN LEAF.

So until you can debunk that statement by TOBI FROM THE MANGA ITSELF Your arguement means absolutely nothing holds no water and is the one that fails. Next

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

But why is it only Hashirama that could bring things to life like trees?

I'm kind of late with the response but for some reason he was blessed with the sage of six paths powers....

Kabuto compared his power to the sage of six paths.

For some some reason the first Hokage is the only ninja who can convert chakra into life energy. I don't know how or why he was blessed with those powers and it would take alot of analyzing to find out. I think I would also need more information from the manga regarding his background.