The Power of Manda

What say you?

  • Manda is boss

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • We don't know enough about the slug

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't underestimate the monkey and the salamander!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Some secret summon should exist . . .

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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Infant

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i have been reluctant to make this one, so I will try to skim thriugh it.


This thread aims to look at everything we have been given in terms of showings, achuevements and claims surrounding Manda to scale him to a certain power level in various categories.

I could easily begin at the end, using KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke choosing to summon Aoda and Kichi to cross a distance to prove that Manda (and Bunta) is at least a full level of speed ahead of V2 Raikage. However, that feels cheap so I prefer to take a more chronologucal review of evidence to show that every other instance matches very well with that major one. Nonetheless, let me explain why that one puts Manda at such a high level. Firstly, Sasuke and Naruto at that point were very comfortably performaning at speeds relative to full speed Raikage. KCM Naruto initially only barely dodged Raikage - making RK faster - but he later gained a minor speed boost when Kurama fully cooperated so it can be assumed he caught up if not surpassed him. As for Sasuke, he was not shown getting cleanly blitzed by a SM Kabuto whom I would consider cleanly faster than V2 Raikage. Reason being that Kabuto had proven fster than a Kakashi who would later prove to be relative to a faster-than-V1 MS Sasuke. Despite the debatable MS evolution, we can scale both Kakashi versions as equal thanks to the Zabuza clashes they had. So with SM being a stated 50× boost in stats, which I consider far great than the difference between V1 and V2 RnY since Sasuke barely beat the weaker yet quickly managed to react to and track the stronger as opposed to other similar clashes where transitions from lvl 1 to 2 had opponents completely blitzed, such as Choji vs Jirobo. So with that one being a stated 10× boost, I figure the differrence between each level of RnY is prrobably 2-5× maximum. So Sasuke not getting outrageously blitzed by someone overall 50× better in stats than V1+ speedsters at least equals him being able to operate at full speed V2 speeds. In addition to this, Sasuke has his oculer evolutions. 3T to MS was considered enough to match losing the best cyrse mark by energy expert Karin. Based on interpretation, inferior CM can be anything from a 10 to 100 fold stats boost at CM lvl2 from normal form. Comparatively, RnY offers no more than a 25 fold boost by my speculation. The fact that eye energy is not completely dedicated to physical stats evens out my speculation of it being 4× stronger, so a single level stats boost should be comparable by estimation. So since V1+ MS Sasuke not only gained a superior level of energy with EMS but also a direct health and control boost of the very eyes that help with his reactions, it seems reasonable for EMS Sasuke to be a V2 speedster. On top of all that, Sasuke was not shown being inferior to confirmed-V2-speedster Naruto when they fought around each other - with Naruto having no obvious reason to hold back alongside a rival and against a world ending threat. So with that Naruto and Sasuke are confirmed V2 speedsters at minimum - I think slightly but not a full level ahead. So when they choose to use summons to cross notable distances, it implies the summons are at least a full level of speed ahead. In fact, considering that they both have giant bodies in Beast Mode and Uchiha Energy Armour that should be a full level of speed (and other stats) ahaead of their physical bodies based on size biology combined with them being literal energy constructs with no mortality drawbacks bar physics, it can and should be estimated that the chosen summons were a full level of speed ahaead of those, which would put those summons at a termed "V4" level of speed. Now let us relate those specific summons to Manda in particular. Among the Sannin summons, it is made clear between the frog and snake species that there is a hierarchy of power. The sages sit clearly in their own table, as implied by a water element attack from Shima cutting through thick metal easily while a reincarnated Tobirama - who was clearly vastly superior to his living self in stats like speed and could be assumed to be the same in all areas - only has piercing wood as his best water element achievement, as well as Fukasaku demonstrating SM powers by toying with Bunta while Orochumaru obtained his strongest technique - which is directly and quantifiably vastly superior to the strongest regular snake summon in Manda himself - in the Yamata from amalgamting the powers of snake sage into it. After the sages, you get the boss summons which are usually stronger in combat based on usage followed by the regular sized summons which are still strong but usually specialize in trickery. Among the boss summons, it was stated that Bunta is the official boss toad but Jiraiya frequently using all three of Bunta, Hiro and Ken made it debatable if he was the outright strongest. In addition to that, Bunta is the only one shown using major elemental attackz bar the sages, but Kichi saying all toads can use nature energy - implying in the form of elemental attacks due to context and toad combat style relative to snakes and the slug - while the sages confirmed they can all use oil attacks strongly implies the others can also use elemental attacks. This thought is backed by the fact that where we saw the others not use elemental attacks despite fitting opportunity, so did Bunta so it cannot be used to discount them by opportunity logic. Nonetheless, Bunta is very clearly implied the strongest known boss toad with his boss toad moniker. Even with his 4th War showings, Kichi does not do anything that quantifiably surpasses the achievements of Bunta, at least due to difficulty in scaling his Shukaku fight movements. There is also no evidence suggesting that the next generation of boss level summons has surpassed the previous. There is no such confusion when it comes to the snakes. Whenever he is mentioned, Manda is always a directly threatening figure and any comparison between boss snakes had him being stated the outright strongest. So since this was the case at his point of death and there is no reason to believe Aoda underwent significant growth between then and the 4th War, it is logical to believe that Manda would easily be capable of what Aoda did for Sasuke as Aoda should not have come close to matching or surpassing Manda yet. This also connects to the toads. Accounting for generational implications of levels equality, Kichi should be at a level near or below Aoda (snake / frog) and since Aoda is most likely cleanly below Manda who has Bunta as his counterpart, it makes little sense for Kichi to have surpassed or matched Bunta by the 4th War. But in that case, why would Naruto summon Kichi when Bunta was alive? Well, Bunta was probably injured from the SPoP fight and generational themes align Naruto with Kichi and Bunta with Jiraiya - not sure about Minato. So if Bunta and Manda are a full level ahead of Aoda and Kichi who are V4 speedsters by virtue of being ahead of BM Naruto and Full Armour Sasuke who are a level ahead of their V2 KCM and EMS bodies, that puts the bosses at V5 speeds. That is immense, but accounting for the Akatauki having the likes of Deidara at V3 speeds (3rd TK flying clash + dodging sand), Kisame at V3 speeds (matching V1 KB), Sasori at V4 speeds and Konan at V2 speeds all being considered clean wins for Sannin level fighters, it makes sense that someone who could threaten Orochimaruwith nothing but physical attacks would be at an extremely high level of speed - higher than those Akatsuki at minimum.

That should have been multiple paragraphs, but it was supposed to be a minor side-tracking so I felt it should be a single output. Wuth that aside, onto the main evidence - or, at least, my preferred evidence.

We first learn to respect the sumons when the legend of the Sannin is given to us. It is not stated, but there maybe a parallel between them and their hype material counterparts - the Seven Swordsfolk and the Uchiha. This would be that just as the Swordsfolk are attributed directly half their power to their swords and the Uchiha are made by their eyes, so the Sannin owe much of their power to their summons - I would certainly argue that the slug is so powerful that anyone below TT Hosts owes more than half their power to her. Irrespective of how much, we are at least told that a sigbificant part of their strength is their summoning ability - which is led by their boss level summons.

On to more direct stuff, both in terms of topic and content thereof, we are given a very arrogant and rude character in Manda who regularly talks down to Orochimaru, as if the summoner is subservient. The wiki connects this behaviour to make a claim of a tale that Manda only serves Orochimaru because he could not defeat the shinobi in combat. It must be noted that this would have been a healthy Orochimaru, possibly using reanimations as well. It should also be noted t+at his behaviour means that, if true, Manda was not overly crushed in this fight but barely beaten, else his arrogance would be illogical. This is quite fitting with more concrete evidence, seeing as both Oroc and Kabuto feared the betrayal of Manda if he knew about the loss of his arms and what that meant. This fear firstly necessitates that they see Manda as a significant combta asset despite also possessing reanimations, the Telepathic Longsword, his wierd body, the shadow snakes and the Rashomon Gates. That is a massive statement of power! Secondly, that implies that Manda could defeat Oroc in his weakened state. In order to do that with his physical moveset, Manda would have to be able to get past a casual V2 speedster who has an extendable sword that should do well against large targets. He would have to be a V4 speedster at least or durable enough to tank a diamond cutting blade!.

From what we have seen, Manda first presents himself in the Sannin deadlock, taking on the other two for a while despite their 3 way systems. This is a sign, if nothing else, that he may be an exceptional talent that breaks the power barrier for his generation. At furst he seems to have a rather soft body, as it easily bend when Orochimaru and Jiraiya skirmish on top of him. However, he then proves extremely durable when he deals with the flame-oil attack from Jiraiya and Bunta. This is firstly impressive because he reacted to a nigh-instant attack. Jiraiya may be difficult to scale in his weakened form but Bunta was perfectly healthy and should scale to the attacks of Shukaku, which I put at V2 speed minimum. This is based on general tailed beast scaling and related scaling for Bunta. This is supported by the anime showing the SPoP using summons to capture V2 level Utakata, summons which Bunta later fought and matched. So Manda dodging an instant attack from a V2 speedster puts him at V4 speeds. More impressive for me is the durability he also shows. He sheds his skin as a minor barrier against the heat - which would be significant on account of Jiraiya not only having powerful energy but the oil boost making it a combo attackstronger thanany conventional flame element, fitting what the databooks say about Myoboku techniques surpassing the Five Great Nations, which is aready signficant considering the likes of Yugito exist with tailed beast energy boosted flames and Darui has his Black Lightning which the authors have reportedly stated can directly kill a target. However, the skin does more than offer a temporary barrier - which would be impressive on its own - in that it partially survives the burning flames. Changes in panels suggest the flames did not burn for too long, but for a mere layer of skinto survive that intensity of heat for anything more than a split second makes it out as a very durable piece of.skin. So not only do we thus far have a V4 speed Manda, but also an extremely durable one. I do not really respect his shedding ability because of its extremely limited usage terms. Nonetheless, his bendy skin as well as him dodging the acid attack from a Katsuyu who could cover the Leaf in moments against the SPoP and later legitimately threaten healthy Orochimaru and then procession to quickly constrict the same Katsuyu also speaks of extreme agility perfectly matching his speed. In that case, him getting close to an acid spitter suggest he could either dodge or tank small amounts of acid - impressive either way. It is also possible he was holding Tsunade hostage, but Katsuyu could easily break off a small piece of herself to attack Manda while still protecting Tsunade with her larger portions. If the hostage point is true though, It speaks well for Manda because this version of Tusnade required a V1+ Kabuto to use soldier pills to match in combat, putting her at V2 speeds. And she still managed to land a blitz attack, so her shunshin is possibly V3 in speed level. For Manda to hold such a capable physical counterpart hostage, he would need V4 levels of speed.

Something else he showcased in that standoff is outright power. After he shed his skin, he moved underground - deep enough that his massive displacement did not appear on the surface - and then surprised Bunta and Jiraiya from below. This is impressive because earth is much denser than air and more so the deeper you go. This density makes it that much more difficult to move through, hence why only shinobi who know the specific technique to soften earth use underground movement a lot. So let us estimate that earth is 100 times denser than air. This means itis 100 fold tougher to move through and so requires strength at a level that can discount that difference in order to move through unhindered. If we say the change in panels suggests that the flames did not burn for long, then Manda was very quick to move through the earth and reach Bunta. Of course, if we say the flames burned longer and so Manda was slower, it means his skin alone did more tanking of the oil boosted flames, so he gets credit either way. Anyway, for Manda to move through deep layers of the earth and emerge able to instantly attack means he was unhindered by said earth (half of his body was still inside it) and speaks of outrageous bodily strength. So from that standoff we have a fittingly agile, V4 speedster who can somewhat tank oil flames surpassing tailed beast energy and has movement strength that is practically 100 fold superior to normal shinobi. Based on his attempt to swallow both Bunta and Jiraiya whole, he canstretch his mouth tremendously and has some sprt of poison or constricting power that can practically instantly paralyse giants.

The statements regarding Manda betrayaing Orochumaru and his general rudeness towards him are already covered in the opening side track, but since Manda was defeated by a sword by Tsunade we can definitely say that he would have to be capable of dodging the Longsword instead of tanking it.

Then we have the end of the Deidara fight. Actually, before we get there, we have the start of the fight. Here, Manda gets carry-over scaling from the small snakes. Their tanking of those paper-bomb level bombs was done perfectly. This means even small snakes can tank forces, based on Hidan, that are strong enough to destroy the bpdy of a person. Keep in mind hidan has burn dage immunity in his own right. So not only is Manda is larger form of those, but at that point was still uncontested as the outright boss of that group. Indeed, the end of the fight shows exactly that. See, when Manda saved Sasuke from the C0 bomb - which, based on thematics of Deidara being a beast host hunter, should be cleanly superior to a tailed beast bomb -he did so byshielding him from its energy with his body. This not only shows his body as durable enough to do this, but because he actually died a significant time later than the explosion, he actually outright survived the explosion. We cannot scale much for speed or strength because we do not know what physical position Manda was summoned in. Likewise, we also cannot scale anything for illusion resistance because he was tricked by his summoner whom he is contractually bound to obey. However, we do get something of his general power level being praised with the statement that not even Orochimaru would play such a trick on Manda. So from this part we have Manda being someone fearfully respected by Orochimaru and capable of tanking without visible damage the energy of something comparable to a tailed beast bomb.

From all this, then, we have Manda being at least a V4 speedster, having the movement strength to be unhindered by solid earth, being agile enough to fully apply his speed and being durable enough to tank tailed beast bomb level attacks and survive momentarily with no physical damage.

Seeing as we know V2 levels of speed are already impressive, tailed beast bombs are supposed to ultimate death weapons and any earth is supposed to be a significant barrier hence the element is often used defensively, a question arises of whether Manda is particularly impressive or if summons are just powerful in general. Well, for comparison we have Bunta already being blitzed by him to show at least one level of a full speed gap, possibly two depending on how you account for earth restraining Manda; we have a projectile attack from Katsuyu being cleanly.dodged and her being constricted; we have the summon of Danzo failing to react to a simple fire ball; we have King Enma failing to best Orochimaru upclose when the latter should be at least one full level of speed below Manda; we have a difficult to precisely scale summon of Hanzo failing to kill off Sannin-inferior Chiyo and managing to swallow but getting killed by a Mifune who considered V1 level Sasuke impressive; we have tailed beasts being generally troubled by V2 speed opponents; and of course among shinobi V2 Raikage is considered highly impressive with only the secretive Akatsuki and fellow shadows matching or surpassing him. It should be said that Temari mentioning her summon based attack against a 3rd Rk who had already proven to be V2 speed against KCM Naruto oes give it an open upper limit of speed, but based on the expected limits of her own visual tracking speed it should still be only V3 in speed during the 4th War. So it seems to be Manda who is particularly impressive.

The next question then is how come. Now before we tackle this, it should be noted that any story is that of the authors. They have full right to establish whatever they wish as canon and no hard responsibility to explain why for the audience. If they choose to do so, that is nice and can be considered quality world-creation, but nothing more. Let us see if a reason can be found for Manda having his exceptional stats. Looking at the Sannin summons, their bases are known as the sage regions and general hype plus that statement from Kichi in the 4th War implies they can all use Natural Energy even if they do not all achieve Sage Mode. With this ability, we see the toads use powerful elemental attacks (Bunta matched a tailed beast) and Katsuyu have her wierd ultimate plushy tank body with some sort of implied space-time ability among other tricks. So what of the snakes? We have only seen them use physical attacks. I think that is a clue. They use NE to boost their bodies/physical stats. This would explain why Manda has such high stats in all physical categories and not only one special talent or somesuch.

What say you?
 

Bob74h

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Kinda disagree with the acesssment of manda's speed
We know he's on the level of gamabunta and shukaku via the fight had with chief toad

and that's good but scaling him on the level of eos sasuke cause he rode on aoba makes zero sense as first off travel speed does not equal combat speed and two it was a narrative point to show how current team kakashi mirrors the sannin

Not only that but fourth raikage was potrayed as the second fastest below minato namikaze, people who certainly are faster then gamabunta
Afterall killer bee at least would be on the same lv as the raikage and he's the eight tailed jinchuriki

And bjuu are as strong as their tails so one tail is the weakest and nine tails is the strongest so killer bee >>> shukaku logically
And this can be proven by facts so sasuke who lost to killer bee easily was able to both summon manda and hide in his mouth before the snake could even realize what was going on

So manda is faster then eos sasuke by your claims here despite sasuke having killed him due to superior speed?
 

Infant

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Kinda disagree with the acesssment of manda's speed
We know he's on the level of gamabunta and shukaku via the fight had with chief toad

and that's good but scaling him on the level of eos sasuke cause he rode on aoba makes zero sense as first off travel speed does not equal combat speed and two it was a narrative point to show how current team kakashi mirrors the sannin

Not only that but fourth raikage was potrayed as the second fastest below minato namikaze, people who certainly are faster then gamabunta
Afterall killer bee at least would be on the same lv as the raikage and he's the eight tailed jinchuriki

And bjuu are as strong as their tails so one tail is the weakest and nine tails is the strongest so killer bee >>> shukaku logically
And this can be proven by facts so sasuke who lost to killer bee easily was able to both summon manda and hide in his mouth before the snake could even realize what was going on

So manda is faster then eos sasuke by your claims here despite sasuke having killed him due to superior speed?
Seen, planning to reply later
 

Infant

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We know he's on the level of gamabunta and shukaku via the fight had with chief toad
Bunta was perfectly healthy and should scale to the attacks of Shukaku, which I put at V2 speed minimum. This is based on general tailed beast scaling and related scaling for Bunta. This is supported by the anime showing the SPoP using summons to capture V2 level Utakata, summons which Bunta later fought and matched. So Manda dodging an instant attack from a V2 speedster puts him at V4 speeds


travel speed does not equal combat speed
For guys who use arms for combat and legs for movement. Manda uses a single whole body movement for both so they equate.

Also:
On to more direct stuff, both in terms of topic and content thereof, we are given a very arrogant and rude character in Manda who regularly talks down to Orochimaru, as if the summoner is subservient. The wiki connects this behaviour to make a claim of a tale that Manda only serves Orochimaru because he could not defeat the shinobi in combat. It must be noted that this would have been a healthy Orochimaru, possibly using reanimations as well. It should also be noted t+at his behaviour means that, if true, Manda was not overly crushed in this fight but barely beaten, else his arrogance would be illogical. This is quite fitting with more concrete evidence, seeing as both Oroc and Kabuto feared the betrayal of Manda if he knew about the loss of his arms and what that meant. This fear firstly necessitates that they see Manda as a significant combta asset despite also possessing reanimations, the Telepathic Longsword, his wierd body, the shadow snakes and the Rashomon Gates. That is a massive statement of power! Secondly, that implies that Manda could defeat Oroc in his weakened state. In order to do that with his physical moveset, Manda would have to be able to get past a casual V2 speedster who has an extendable sword that should do well against large targets. He would have to be a V4
The statements regarding Manda betrayaing Orochumaru and his general rudeness towards him are already covered in the opening side track, but since Manda was defeated by a sword by Tsunade we can definitely say that he would have to be capable of dodging the Longsword instead of tanking it.
And:
he reacted to a nigh-instant attack. Jiraiya may be difficult to scale in his weakened form but Bunta was perfectly healthy and should scale to the attacks of Shukaku, which I put at V2 speed minimum. This is based on general tailed beast scaling and related scaling for Bunta. This is supported by the anime showing the SPoP using summons to capture V2 level Utakata, summons which Bunta later fought and matched. So Manda dodging an instant attack from a V2 speedster puts him at V4 speeds



So what directly happened should not count?

And is there something that says the narrative point could not be made in different ways?

Besides those issues, this is an artwork which means everything is a narrative point! Should the entire story not count then?



Not only that but fourth raikage was potrayed as the second fastest below minato namikaze
I could easily begin at the end, using KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke choosing to summon Aoda and Kichi to cross a distance to prove that Manda (and Bunta) is at least a full level of speed ahead of V2 Raikage. However, that feels cheap so I prefer to take a more chronologucal review of evidence to show that every other instance matches very well with that major one. Nonetheless, let me explain why that one puts Manda at such a high level. Firstly, Sasuke and Naruto at that point were very comfortably performaning at speeds relative to full speed Raikage. KCM Naruto initially only barely dodged Raikage - making RK faster
The RK being impressive is the foundation of my entire post and especially the very first paragraph so why state it as though I disagreed?

Besides that, you are equating his statement with narrative intent. Character opinions can be wrong . . .

and of course among shinobi V2 Raikage is considered highly impressive with only the secretive Akatsuki and fellow shadows matching or surpassing him. I
. . . And I've already addressed that!

And Manda is not a shinobi! The statement of the RK does not cover him.




people who certainly are faster then gamabunta
KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke choosing to summon Aoda and Kichi to cross a distance to prove that Manda (and Bunta) is at least a full level of speed ahead of V2 Raikage.
Firstly, Sasuke and Naruto at that point were very comfortably performaning at speeds relative to full speed Raikage. KCM Naruto initially only barely dodged Raikage - making RK faster - but he later gained a minor speed boost when Kurama fully cooperated so it can be assumed he caught up if not surpassed him. As for Sasuke, he was not shown getting cleanly blitzed by a SM Kabuto whom I would consider cleanly faster than V2 Raikage. Reason being that Kabuto had proven fster than a Kakashi who would later prove to be relative to a faster-than-V1 MS Sasuke. Despite the debatable MS evolution, we can scale both Kakashi versions as equal thanks to the Zabuza clashes they had. So with SM being a stated 50× boost in stats, which I consider far great than the difference between V1 and V2 RnY since Sasuke barely beat the weaker yet quickly managed to react to and track the stronger as opposed to other similar clashes where transitions from lvl 1 to 2 had opponents completely blitzed, such as Choji vs Jirobo. So with that one being a stated 10× boost, I figure the differrence between each level of RnY is prrobably 2-5× maximum. So Sasuke not getting outrageously blitzed by someone overall 50× better in stats than V1+ speedsters at least equals him being able to operate at full speed V2 speeds. In addition to this, Sasuke has his oculer evolutions. 3T to MS was considered enough to match losing the best cyrse mark by energy expert Karin. Based on interpretation, inferior CM can be anything from a 10 to 100 fold stats boost at CM lvl2 from normal form. Comparatively, RnY offers no more than a 25 fold boost by my speculation. The fact that eye energy is not completely dedicated to physical stats evens out my speculation of it being 4× stronger, so a single level stats boost should be comparable by estimation. So since V1+ MS Sasuke not only gained a superior level of energy with EMS but also a direct health and control boost of the very eyes that help with his reactions, it seems reasonable for EMS Sasuke to be a V2 speedster. On top of all that, Sasuke was not shown being inferior to confirmed-V2-speedster Naruto when they fought around each other - with Naruto having no obvious reason to hold back alongside a rival and against a world ending threat. So with that Naruto and Sasuke are confirmed V2 speedsters at minimum - I think slightly but not a full level ahead. So when they choose to use summons to cross notable distances, it implies the summons are at least a full level of speed ahead
Already covered with reasoning and direct evidence.



Afterall killer bee at least would be on the same lv as the raikage and he's the eight tailed jinchuriki
Therefore?




And bjuu are as strong as their tails so one tail is the weakest and nine tails is the strongest so killer bee >>> shukaku logically
Directly disagreed with by the showcased smartest tailed beast.

And even besides that, a statement from the most arrogant tailed beast with the most clout to gain from the tails to power idea is hardly evidence.

Additionally, the performance of Bunta against a weakened Shukaku relative to the contributions of Ken/Hiro against Kurama, especially when the lattwr had a much better summoning partner in Minato over Naruto, directly disproves your point.




And this can be proven by facts
Facts? Bring them! Have you forgotten what debating is?




so sasuke who lost to killer bee easily was able to both summon manda and hide in his mouth before the snake could even realize what was going on
So . . . What?

Also:
We cannot scale much for speed or strength because we do not know what physical position Manda was summoned in. Likewise, we also cannot scale anything for illusion resistance because he was tricked by his summoner whom he is contractually bound to obey.


So manda is faster then eos sasuke by your claims here despite sasuke having killed him due to superior speed?
First (literally) you said:
travel speed does not equal combat speed
And now you say summoning rules and illusions equal superior speed?



You clearly read my post, so I figure you wanted to play a game of making me quote myself as much as possible since you know I hate that. With that in mind, I'm out.
 

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Kinda disagree with the acesssment of manda's speed
We know he's on the level of gamabunta and shukaku via the fight had with chief toad

and that's good but scaling him on the level of eos sasuke cause he rode on aoba makes zero sense as first off travel speed does not equal combat speed and two it was a narrative point to show how current team kakashi mirrors the sannin

Not only that but fourth raikage was potrayed as the second fastest below minato namikaze, people who certainly are faster then gamabunta
Afterall killer bee at least would be on the same lv as the raikage and he's the eight tailed jinchuriki

And bjuu are as strong as their tails so one tail is the weakest and nine tails is the strongest so killer bee >>> shukaku logically
And this can be proven by facts so sasuke who lost to killer bee easily was able to both summon manda and hide in his mouth before the snake could even realize what was going on

So manda is faster then eos sasuke by your claims here despite sasuke having killed him due to superior speed?
Manda is faster then Gamabunta
 
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