[Discussion] The power of Conqueror's Haki

[chopstickchakra]

Rewatching some clips got me thinking about some thing.

At Fish Man Island we saw Luffy use Conq. Haki to KO 50,000 fishmen. Now a few things to consider is Luffy was still relatively new to using this ability and still relatively lower on the power scale compared to top tiers like admirals/yonkous/etc. Also Fishmen are said to be on average physically stronger than a human body.

These two things in mind, how many humans do you think a top tier could KO with a Conq. Haki burst(if they had it)? Top tiers like;
Garp
Sengoku
WB
Shanks
BM
Kaidou
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Aokiji
Roger
Oden
etc.

 

[Rmstorm96]

Nope, Oda stated in Luffy skill card that Luffy's COC at fishmen Island and Marineford was already got very strong Conquerors Haki's. Luffy's CoC is unusually potent.

 

[Nick01]

I heard that Shanks would've KO'd all 100,000 with relative ease. I mean we saw what he did to Whitebeards ship and the lower lvl pirates on board just by having his guard up.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Nope, Oda stated in Luffy skill card that Luffy's COC at fishmen Island and Marineford was already got very strong Conquerors Haki's. Luffy's CoC is unusually potent.

That doesn't mean that other people who are stronger and have had it longer wouldn't have a stronger conq. haki unless Oda said Luffy's was the most powerful ever, I didn't read the skill card though so I don't know I might be wrong.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

I don't think the amount of people around even matters. If Luffy were surrounded by 400,000 fishmen, BUT within the same distance as the 50,000, I believe he still would've KOed them all.

 

[Donald J Trump]

The number of people does not matter at all. As long as they are within the range of the haki and have the same potential to be knocked out, then even a billion people could get knocked out.


I think what you should be asking is what is the highest tier opponent each of the people listed could knock out with COC.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I don't think the amount of people around even matters. If Luffy were surrounded by 400,000 fishmen, BUT within the same distance as the 50,000, I believe he still would've KOed them all.

That's not really what I was saying....

If Luffy was able to KO 50,000 fishmen being weaker than top tiers how many people do you think top tiers could KO with their conq. haki? You think Shanks could only KO 50,000 as well or more?

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2020

The number of people does not matter at all. As long as they are within the range of the haki and have the same potential to be knocked out, then even a billion people could get knocked out.


I think what you should be asking is what is the highest tier opponent each of the people listed could knock out with COC.

Yeah not really what I said and people of different strengths would likely have the ability to make more people pass out then someone who is weaker than them. For instance Shanks should be able to make more people and stronger level people pass out than Luffy should be able to.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

That's not really what I was saying....

If Luffy was able to KO 50,000 fishmen being weaker than top tiers how many people do you think top tiers could KO with their conq. haki? You think Shanks could only KO 50,000 as well or more?

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2020

Yeah not really what I said and people of different strengths would likely have the ability to make more people pass out then someone who is weaker than them. For instance Shanks should be able to make more people and stronger level people pass out than Luffy should be able to.

The points are related. My answer rests on the reasoning. If I think Luffy could KO any amount of people within a confined space, I'd also think all the others could. Is the problem that I take the variable of range out of the equation? I'm not sure if Shanks has a larger/smaller radius or whether he would've knocked out more if that's what you're asking.
It's not clear how much of Conqueror's Haki's strength is due to sheer willpower opposed to expertise, and, because of that, there's 2 prerequisites required to say whose is stronger for me. Shanks is definitely leagues above Luffy and an expert with Haki, but I couldn't possibly say he has more willpower than Luffy.

The Admirals are likely to be on the lower side of things though, because their wills seem small enough to make constant concessions. There's Akainu settling with pirates, The Blind Guy's willingness to settle with WG's darker side if his die willed it, Kuzan tolerating the WG for decades, and Kizaru seemingly having nothing he's passionately pursuing(?). Their Haki would probably knock out less people than Yonko, but I still couldn't pit them against Luffy.

 

[chopstickchakra]

The points are related. My answer rests on the reasoning. If I think Luffy could KO any amount of people within a confined space, I'd also think all the others could. Is the problem that I take the variable of range out of the equation? I'm not sure if Shanks has a larger/smaller radius or whether he would've knocked out more if that's what you're asking.
It's not clear how much of Conqueror's Haki's strength is due to sheer willpower opposed to expertise, and, because of that, there's 2 prerequisites required to say whose is stronger for me. Shanks is definitely leagues above Luffy and an expert with Haki, but I couldn't possibly say he has more willpower than Luffy.

The Admirals are likely to be on the lower side of things though, because their wills seem small enough to make constant concessions. There's Akainu settling with pirates, The Blind Guy's willingness to settle with WG's darker side if his die willed it, Kuzan tolerating the WG for decades, and Kizaru seemingly having nothing he's passionately pursuing(?). Their Haki would probably knock out less people than Yonko, but I still couldn't pit them against Luffy.

So if there were 100,000 people in a 5 x 5 room you think Luffy would knock out the same amount of people as Shanks would or WB would have? I don't think so, there has to be levels of Conq. Haki. No way Luffy who just learned how to use it can do so as strongly as someone who has used it for years.

Isn't all haki will? Even armament haki? When Luffy first got his armament haki there were people with stronger arm. haki around right? Why would this be different?

Just double checked on the wikia and all haki allow user to use their spiritual energy, Conq. allows you to override the affected's willpower and under usage it says such; "Unlike the other types of Haki, Haoshoku cannot be learned. One can only learn to control it after discovering that they have it. " which if accurate implies you can't learn how to use it but once you know you have it and how it works you can control it.

Now I suppose that could mean multiple things to multiple people to fit their point of view which to me seems to imply once known you can learn how to use it i.e. you can learn to create varying radius'(radii? Plural for radius) of affect and can adjust the level of potency to control who is KO'd.

It also says "Those with stronger wills can resist or even ignore the effects of Haoshoku Haki. The ability to affect someone depends on the Haki user having greater strength of will than the person the Haki is being used against. The greater the power gap, the more easily the victim will succumb " but if you can't adjust the level than why didn't any of the Weak trio pass out at Sabaody when Rayleigh hit the Auction House with a Conq. blast? They shouldn't have will has strong as Rayleigh should they?

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

So if there were 100,000 people in a 5 x 5 room you think Luffy would knock out the same amount of people as Shanks would or WB would have? I don't think so, there has to be levels of Conq. Haki. No way Luffy who just learned how to use it can do so as strongly as someone who has used it for years.

Isn't all haki will? Even armament haki? When Luffy first got his armament haki there were people with stronger arm. haki around right? Why would this be different?

Just double checked on the wikia and all haki allow user to use their spiritual energy, Conq. allows you to override the affected's willpower and under usage it says such; "Unlike the other types of Haki, Haoshoku cannot be learned. One can only learn to control it after discovering that they have it. " which if accurate implies you can't learn how to use it but once you know you have it and how it works you can control it.

Now I suppose that could mean multiple things to multiple people to fit their point of view which to me seems to imply once known you can learn how to use it i.e. you can learn to create varying radius'(radii? Plural for radius) of affect and can adjust the level of potency to control who is KO'd.

It also says "Those with stronger wills can resist or even ignore the effects of Haoshoku Haki. The ability to affect someone depends on the Haki user having greater strength of will than the person the Haki is being used against. The greater the power gap, the more easily the victim will succumb " but if you can't adjust the level than why didn't any of the Weak trio pass out at Sabaody when Rayleigh hit the Auction House with a Conq. blast? They shouldn't have will has strong as Rayleigh should they?

Yup. I think they'd all knock out the same amount in that 5x5 room. My belief is that when Luffy roars, his will isn't getting split amongst them. They're all taking the full wrath of his will, so why would its effect lesson if there are more of them?

I don't think all haki is will? Not sure if it is so or isn't. If it were so, I'd be forced to agree you nigh wholly. If it weren't, I wouldn't, which I'm assuming RN. You're definitely right that they can affect the radius(just by extension of the fact that you can already screen people from it), but I'm not sure about potency. Shanks could scratch the ship, but that could fall under a form of manifestation of Conq's Haki opposed to potency.

I doubt its potency(specifically, the ability to affect wills) can be heightened through training. I imagine its potency more like, idk, a volume meter. The max volume is how much will the user already has, and training doesn't really have any bearing on that. I think training would be your ability to use the volume slider. Through that view, the potency could only be fine tuned downward from your will's cap. If all haki is will, then that means will can be heightened with training. Either that or Conq's Haki, like all other hakis(assuming they're will), requires decades(more than a lifetime maybe?) of training to utilize the cap of your will's potency.

If the first assumption is true, I agree completely. If the latter is true, then there's just more variables unless we rate them under the assumption that everyone has equal proficiency with Conq's Haki.