ArabianLuffy
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It never crossed my mind. Is it really like a rule that "anyone Luffy can beat, Jinbe can too"? What about Perona?
[Discussion] The New Moster Trio???
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chopstickchakra
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Well he was shown to have an advantage when he was able to dissolve Kata's Mochi. I doubt he'd be fast enough to keep up during a whole fight though.
TheLegend0713
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I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, but I feel like it's fair to say that there definitely is a hierarchy of strength with the Straw Hats. The question boils down to "Is Jinbe stronger than Sanji?", and that's a fair question. It's definitely worth discussing, and not something that should be dismissed because of a semantical error.
Now, for the actual question, I don't know. Formulaically, I think Jinbe would clock in at fourth strongest, right below Zoro and Sanji, but that went out the window with the crew splitting in two. A better question might be, "Who is the strongest out of Zoro, Sanji, and Jinbe?" If we're gonna discuss the current status of the Monster Trio, we might as well compare all three candidates for second and third.
TheLegend0713
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His advantage is conditional, to be fair. If he doesn't have water or a water-based liquid, then I don't see him winning.
Easyfathom
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Can't they pull water from the air? I thought that was something Fishmen who display strong fishman karate can do... Which means he should always have a bit to use in his battles. So you can't take that away from him as that's like taking someones else's strengths from them just because it's an extension of themselves, such as Zoro and his Swords.
chopstickchakra
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As Easy mentioned Hody showed they can use the water in the atmosphere, though without a MASSIVE amount of water Jimbe won't be winning and even then who knows.
chopstickchakra
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Anyone Luffy can beat Jinbe can too? No. Anyone Luffy has beaten so far(bar Kata) Jinbe could too? Now that's an argument I feel could be made well, I think the only opponents Luffy's beat I wouldn't feel real comfortable saying Jinbe could beat are Doffy and Kata.
Easyfathom
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Really?
I'm not sure where people get the idea that Jinbei is all that... Yes, he's shown to be the best at fishman karate, a very powerful style of fighting. But he's shown no speed feats (that I can think of) and not much for durability other than a much younger Ace all out brawl.
Yes, I do think he's strong and a very capable fighter. I think the edge that he has over most opponents is that they haven't fought anyone like him with his style of fighting most likely.
I'd most definitely put Zoro above him (most due to his Haki / swords fighting style giving him the edge) and Sanji would be a very very good fight as they're both close quarters fighters. Possible leaning more towards Jinbei being the victor.
chopstickchakra
Active member
Yeah granted I haven't analyzed it that hard for each opponent but let's run down a quick list;
Croc - Water advantage and fellow shichibukai which should signify a relative strength level.
Moriah - Shichibukai comparable strength again, Moriah seemed to only fight on his ship anymore which gives Jinbe the water advantage again.
I don't really coun't Kuma but if we are then add him to the list with Kata and Doffy.
Hody - Absolutely, I'd argue Arlong would beat Hody w/ no steroids and Arlong with steroids would beat Hody w/ steroids but that's another discussion.
Lucci - at the point of W7 absolutely, Luffy won and Jinbe at that point was seemingly stronger still.
Who are some other big ones because the rest are definite wins for Jinbei like;
Wapol
Bellamy
Kuro
Krieg
Buggy
I think the only opponents you could really argue for that Luffy fought that may beat Jinbe are; Moriah, Croc, Perona, Lucci Magellan, Oars zombie(but I wouldn't count him since it took the team).
He hasn't shown speed but his build and lack of speed I think implies to many the idea of a tank character and he did withstand an attack from BM and Akainu which are no small durability showings.
Easyfathom
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I guess I wasn't actually thinking about the characters that Luffy beat, more so just people he had encountered... So my bad :O
But I agree with most, barr possibly Lucci. Just purely for the speed that he has shown, although he might not be able to pack the power himself considering Jinbe can tank Big Mom.
You do have Cracker though... I honestly don't see Jinbei beating him. Sure he can soften the biscuits, but the sheer number that Cracker can make, I don't know if Jinbei would last / his water supply would last. Can they forever take it out of the air? But again, you might not count this one either as it took Nami's help to beat him
Ceasar? People throw his name in the bin far too easily... I wonder....
Hmm, who else...
Enel? I think if he were to survive the shock of being hit a couple times before being beat, he might be able to get a lethal shot off on Jinbe (which should be a 1 hit kill, but then Usopp survived that mofo, swear, take out the "comedy" and he is strongest OP character durability wise xD)
Edit: Looking on the wiki at Jinbe, they've sated 2 times where he has shown a speed feat; jumping in between Luffy going for Blackbeard (gear 2) and managing to grab both Brook and Nami before Prometheus hits them... May have to go back and check these... Can't remember ever thinking he showed any sort of impressive speed display.
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Uzumaki Macho
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Casually slicing island-sized frozen tsunamis >>>> anything Meme and Fujitora have done.
chopstickchakra
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Yeah I wasn't figuring Admirals or the such since that's a clear one.
I would consider Cracker only because I think if Nami could produce enough water to keep his biscuits soggy Jinbei probably can too if not more so idk lol. Depending on the amount of available water I think this is a win for Jinbei, lot of water/low only water made by FMK high-extreme. Based on their role in the balance alone I kind of expect any Shichibukai(bar maybe Buggy) to be able to handle a Yonkou's lower commanders in order to allow the Admirals to focus on the top commanders and captain. Ace should be like the Cracker of WBP's so Jinbei should have a similar showing against Cracker I would think.
I was on the fence with Caesar too but I don't think I can make a strong enough point for Caesar other than oxygen removal but Jinbei being Fishman means unknown biology, how long can he hold his breath, can his gills filter toxicity for the poison attacks? I would say Jinbei probably wins this more times than he loses.
Enel could be a rough match up I forgot about Enel. Natural advantage on Jinbei with the lightning and even if Jinbei has speed feats I'd imagine Enel has higher speed through his fruit.
I think Magellan would give him a pretty good fight, he has that tank vibe I feel like those two would be at it for awhile.
Punk Hazard
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Just throwing in that these hings were created by an Emperor and frozen by an Admiral on his level as well
Uzumaki Macho
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And those two have better showings than BM and Fujitora. You also need to keep in mind that this was just a casual slash from Mihawk, who wasn’t even aiming for the tsunami, and there was still some force left over from the slash, which is shown by the tsunami being launched upwards.
Easyfathom
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Yeah, definitely...
Really? I give it to Jinbe if there is a water source that he can directly use, a lake, the sea etc... But just from moisture in the air which I think has really only has been shown to use projectiles for, I think Cracker gives him a very hard time. And lower commander? I think you're not giving Cracker his due credit, the commanders haven't shown to be on any sort of different tier in my opinion. Each having their own strengths and weaknesses.
Apart from Mihawk, Doffy and Hancock, none of the other shichibukai have shown a display of having haki, so other than Law due to his Devil fruit, I wouldn't just go giving a loss to Cracker without looking at each fight individually with a bit more detail.
I mean, realistically, he can make as many biscuits as he wants, other than just being in a fight and defending himself, he can attack multiple targets at once, so I don't see a shichibukai just taking him on and dealing with him on their own to be honest (bar maybe Mihawk).
And going on from this, Jack... Assuming he is in this lower tier commander you're insinuating, who realistically can take him down? Other than Mihawk once again, I don't see anyone taking him on by himself so that admirals can take on a Yonko/their FM's. Think you're downplaying the commanders a little too much and giving most of the Shichibukai a big hype when they don't deserve it.
..... Yeah, you're probably right. Was just throwing Ceasars name in as I hadn't seen you mention it
I think it does come down who can put down the other quicker... Would Jinbe survive a few hits of lightning, or would Enel survive a few ground and pounds.
Magellan would be a very good fight! I'm not sure how it would go... Realistically Jinbe should go down if just a bit of poison hits him (how it's always hyped to be certain death) but then everyone seems to survive it xD. Would love to have seen this in Impel Down.
chopstickchakra
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That's what I said. "Depending on the amount of available water I think this is a win for Jinbei, lot of water/low only water made by FMK high-extreme." With just air moisture water Cracker would give Jinbei a hard time but I still think Jinbei would be able to edge out the victory.
What's wrong with lower commander, that's just how things work someone's stronger than the other. Yes they all have their own advantages but at the end of the day there's a pecking order. Snack was beat we can say fairly reasonably he's a lower SC, Cracker was beat 2 on 1, Smoothie's unknown so unfair to put her anywhere yet and Kata's clearly not what you'd call a lower commander. Some crews may be harder to argue like who falls where but there's always an order.
I might be but idk that I am either, Shichibukai captains should be strong or else what's the real point of involving them in something like Marineford? Also look at some of the Shichibukai; BB, Kuma, Doffy, Law, Mihawk, Weevil('s hype) and you would expect the others despite being below these ones mentioned would be near in strength.
When you said none showed haki except... you meant to include Law and Jinbei right? But the ones(former and current) who haven't so far are BB, Kuma, Croc, Moriah, Weevil and Buggy. It would be insane to think BB doesn't have haki but even if he didn't he wouldn't need it to beat Cracker. Kuma I think most people will assume beats Cracker as well. Buggy loses unless comedy win. Which leaves imo the debate-ables; Croc Moriah and Weevil.
Weevil's an unknown but if hype is true then it shouldn't be an issue with or without haki, he was compared to a young WB.
Croc would be interesting. Both have same weakness not sure what that adds but...
Moriah is a curious debate since he did fight with Kaido and iirc it was more than just the one when he lost his crew right? If it was more than once than I'd think he'd have to be able to hang against Kaido's commanders right?
As for which ones could beat Cracker I think it'd be Mihawk, Kuma, Hancock, Law, Doffy, Weevil, BB, Jinbei. In the air; Croc, Moriah. Loss; Buggy.
I think Croc should probably be in the loss section but he's tricky and has shown little regard to challenging top tiers. Moriah's 1000 shadows Asgard or whatever I think would be too much for Cracker.
As for which ones could beat Jack I think it'd be Mihawk, Kuma, Doffy, Law, Weevil, BB. In the air; Jinbei Croc, Moriah Loss; Hancock, Buggy.
Hancock doesn't have the strength to beat either I don't think but I think Cracker would be more likely to turn to stone than Jack. Jack also showed way better durability than Cracker so idk if Jinbei could knock him out and if Jack really is fishman then he might very well be stronger than Jinbei. If Croc is fast enough to hit that drain attack like he did Luffy or his poison claw I think he'd win and he should be fast enough to hit Jack but idk for sure. As I said above if Moriah did fight Kaido more than once than I'm sure he fought Jack too which implies to me he's a bit above Jack.
Caesar would be a good fight for anyone who can't extend their head to get a breath of air mid fight...... Yeah, you're probably right. Was just throwing Ceasars name in as I hadn't seen you mention it
I think it does come down who can put down the other quicker... Would Jinbe survive a few hits of lightning, or would Enel survive a few ground and pounds.
Magellan would be a very good fight! I'm not sure how it would go... Realistically Jinbe should go down if just a bit of poison hits him (how it's always hyped to be certain death) but then everyone seems to survive it xD. Would love to have seen this in Impel Down.
I feel like Jinbei was shown with the better durability of the two but could he catch Enel?
I expect Magellan to be a pretty badass fighter too based on his responsibility of needing to quiet and rebellious behavior from the worst inmates in the world.
Tomato God
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Says who? Jimbe could definitely beat cracker and water definitely beats mochi.
He did more to big mom than Luffy
Tomato God
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His ability draws water out of the air so unless it's 100% dry he can do fishman karate