"The new generation surpasses the old one" Total BS, eh?

[EliteKakashi]

Back in part 1, Kabuto stated Hiruzen was the strongest of the current kages, even in his old age. At the time we were led to believe that Hiruzen was by far the greatest ever, just because we hadn't really been told much about the history of the Naruto world at the time, so no one really looked much in to a really old man being the best.

Knowing what we do now, though, I think it goes to show how piss poor the current generation(save a couple people of course) is in comparison. Seeing how weak old Hiruzen is in comparison to Hashirama(in terms of his hype at least) now just makes you think. That old man was superior to all these young and supposedly powerful kages, but these kages are nothing compared to Hashirama or Hiruzen in his prime, and according to Kabuto, weren't even on old Hiruzen's level.

What happened to the statement of the new generation surpassing the old one? The new generation hasn't even compared to it's previous one. Hiruzen's generation was the last time that could probably even be considered remotely true. Thoughts?

 

[sugaplaya]

yes yes yes, i totally agree. New generation can never beat old. But geniuses and prodigy are still born, like Oro, minato, Itachi

 

[-Hades-]

It's hard to tell if "The new generation always surpasses the previous" in some cases it does, i mean just wait to see Sasuke vs Naruto, i am almost 100% sure it will be on a whole other level than even Hashirama's battle with Madara.

And another thing. Do not take Edo Madara's power as a comparison with Hashirama, edo Madara is somewhat the perfect ninja, it is a combination of 2 of the greatest ninja that ever lived... and it is the closest thing we have ever seen to the SO6P, give him tailed beast chakra and he would be invincible (if he isn't already). In one word it is more powerful than Hashirama. Until we see him in battle we have no idea of just how strong he was.

And as for the thing with new generation surpassing the previous, i think it refers more to regular ninja, i mean like Shikamaru, Chōji and Ino surpassing their dads. Naruto surpassing Minato and so on, so for this phrase you have to compare 2 similar ninjas to see if the new generation surpassed the old one, you just can't compare guys with special abilities with regular ninjas... it is just absurd.

And about your statement Hiruzen's generation was the last time that could probably even be considered remotely true i think it covers Minato as well, for what he accomplished during his short life while keeping in mind he was just a regular ninja it really is impressive.

 

[Turson]

Back in part 1, Kabuto stated Hiruzen was the strongest of the current kages, even in his old age. At the time we were led to believe that Hiruzen was by far the greatest ever, just because we hadn't really been told much about the history of the Naruto world at the time, so no one really looked much in to a really old man being the best.

Knowing what we do now, though, I think it goes to show how piss poor the current generation(save a couple people of course) is in comparison. Seeing how weak old Hiruzen is in comparison to Hashirama(in terms of his hype at least) now just makes you think. That old man was superior to all these young and supposedly powerful kages, but these kages are nothing compared to Hashirama or Hiruzen in his prime, and according to Kabuto, weren't even on old Hiruzen's level.

What happened to the statement of the new generation surpassing the old one? The new generation hasn't even compared to it's previous one. Hiruzen's generation was the last time that could probably even be considered remotely true. Thoughts?

Depends how you look at it. Maybe its hard to find someone stronger than Hashirama in newest generations, but those generations might be stronger overall, with greater number of strong shinobis.

And as for the thing with new generation surpassing the previous, i think it refers more to regular ninja, i mean like Shikamaru, Chōji and Ino surpassing their dads. Naruto surpassing Minato and so on, so for this phrase you have to compare 2 similar ninjas to see if the new generation surpassed the old one, you just can't compare guys with special abilities with regular ninjas... it is just absurd.

Thats true too.

 

[3MESSIAH]

YES the old generation is way powerful,but i think its still too soon to tell that the new generation wont surpass the old.i mean naruto and sasuke are like 16,17 and are already almost capable enough to stand their ground to almost everyone.But they still have ways to go to be able to defeat the title of hashirama or madara`s strength,i think

 

[Ambriel]

Only strong ppl this new generation has are Sasuke an naruto

 

[EliteKakashi]

It's hard to tell if "The new generation always surpasses the previous" in some cases it does, i mean just wait to see Sasuke vs Naruto, i am almost 100% sure it will be on a whole other level than even Hashirama's battle with Madara.

And another thing. Do not take Edo Madara's power as a comparison with Hashirama, edo Madara is somewhat the perfect ninja, it is a combination of 2 of the greatest ninja that ever lived... and it is the closest thing we have ever seen to the SO6P, give him tailed beast chakra and he would be invincible (if he isn't already). In one word it is more powerful than Hashirama. Until we see him in battle we have no idea of just how strong he was.

And as for the thing with new generation surpassing the previous, i think it refers more to regular ninja, i mean like Shikamaru, Chōji and Ino surpassing their dads. Naruto surpassing Minato and so on, so for this phrase you have to compare 2 similar ninjas to see if the new generation surpassed the old one, you just can't compare guys with special abilities with regular ninjas... it is just absurd.

And about your statement Hiruzen's generation was the last time that could probably even be considered remotely true i think it covers Minato as well, for what he accomplished during his short life while keeping in mind he was just a regular ninja it really is impressive.

Naruto and Sasuke are 2 of the very few exceptions. Gaara could be one as well given what he's shown so far in this war. And I'm not using Edo Madara as a comparison. I'm looking at everything in total, a big thing being like what Kabuto said, old Hiruzen being better than any of the current Kages.

And I don't think anyone so far has surpassed their father or their sensei(In Lee's case). I mean yeah, Naruto and Sasuke surpassed Kakashi, but that's a given because they're the two main characters. Shikamaru MAY have surpassed Asuma. That's really debatable. He hasn't surpassed his father though. As intelligent as Shika is, he's still not as good as his father. Chouji and Ino haven't surpassed their parents though.

And Minato is definitely a ?. He was still young and could have possibly become even better than he was, but we'll never really know.

Gonna try and go down a list here, leaving off Naruto and Sasuke since they were destined to surpass their teachers.

Sakura - great medic, but she hasn't surpassed either of her teachers.

Shikamaru - Possibly surpassed Asuma( though I don't think he's there quite yet), but not his father. Has potential though.
Chouji - Hard to tell given lack of screen time, but I don't think he's surpassed his father.
Ino - lol please.

Shino - Doubt it
Hinata - Most definitely hasn't surpassed Hiashi, maybe Kurenai? We've seen Kurenai do like one technique lol.
Kiba - Doubt it

Lee - Nope. Gai is still far ahead.
Neji - I don't think he's reached his father's level yet, nor has he surpassed Gai. He's got potential though.
Tenten - Greatest ninja ever, so we shouldn't even count her...

Yeah, not a great track record. Most of these haven't even come close.

And it's kinda hard to look at the Gai/Kakashi generation given we only know Kakashi's teacher, but given Kakashi was heralded as the greatest of his generation, and he hasn't surpassed Minato, I don't think we can count that generation as surpassing the old one, either.

 

[itachiEMS]

It's hard to tell if "The new generation always surpasses the previous" in some cases it does, i mean just wait to see Sasuke vs Naruto, i am almost 100% sure it will be on a whole other level than even Hashirama's battle with Madara.

And another thing. Do not take Edo Madara's power as a comparison with Hashirama, edo Madara is somewhat the perfect ninja, it is a combination of 2 of the greatest ninja that ever lived... and it is the closest thing we have ever seen to the SO6P, give him tailed beast chakra and he would be invincible (if he isn't already). In one word it is more powerful than Hashirama. Until we see him in battle we have no idea of just how strong he was.

And as for the thing with new generation surpassing the previous, i think it refers more to regular ninja, i mean like Shikamaru, Chōji and Ino surpassing their dads. Naruto surpassing Minato and so on, so for this phrase you have to compare 2 similar ninjas to see if the new generation surpassed the old one, you just can't compare guys with special abilities with regular ninjas... it is just absurd.

And about your statement Hiruzen's generation was the last time that could probably even be considered remotely true i think it covers Minato as well, for what he accomplished during his short life while keeping in mind he was just a regular ninja it really is impressive.

I totally agree.

 

[knowledge561]

No. The new generation will surpass the old one. Itachi had the potential to be far greater than Madara but he died and wanted to die by Sasuke's hand. Sasuke has potential to surpass Madara. Naruto already surpassed Jaraiya and Minato. Clear example...look at Konohamaru. This dude has Asuma's burning ash Jutsu, Hiruzen's Shadow Clone Shuriken jutsu, Naruto's Rasengan. To me he is stronger than Naruto was at that age. No nine-tails included. Basically he has jutsu from Asuma, the 3rd, and Naruto(which is basically Jaraiya and Minato.) Wait until he becomes 16. He already has potential to become the 7th hokage if Naruto becomes the 6th.

 

[EliteKakashi]

No. The new generation will surpass the old one. Itachi had the potential to be far greater than Madara but he died and wanted to die by Sasuke's hand. Sasuke has potential to surpass Madara. Naruto already surpassed Jaraiya and Minato. Clear example...look at Konohamaru. This dude has Asuma's burning ash Jutsu, Hiruzen's Shadow Clone Shuriken jutsu, Naruto's Rasengan. To me he is stronger than Naruto was at that age. No nine-tails included. Basically he has jutsu from Asuma, the 3rd, and Naruto(which is basically Jaraiya and Minato.) Wait until he becomes 16. He already has potential to become the 7th hokage if Naruto becomes the 6th.

...

When did Konohamaru get any of Hiruzen or Asuma's techniques?

The only thing he has that you listed is rasengan.

 

[iSpeak]

Uhm... in the current generation we have 16 year olds becoming Kage's, running around with EMS and being perfect Jinjuriki's with the 9 tails. Clones defeating previous Kage's.
Im sure when Hashirama was 16 he was still playing hide and seek with his little brother.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Uhm... in the current generation we have 16 year olds becoming Kage's, running around with EMS and being perfect Jinjuriki's with the 9 tails. Clones defeating previous Kage's.
Im sure when Hashirama was 16 he was still playing hide and seek with his little brother.

You have Naruto, Sasuke and Gaara.

Past that, this generation has been pretty crappy so far.

 

[knowledge561]

...

When did Konohamaru get any of Hiruzen or Asuma's techniques?

The only thing he has that you listed is rasengan.

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[iSpeak]

You have Naruto, Sasuke and Gaara.

Past that, this generation has been pretty crappy so far.

They are still 16 years old... You have already seen what Choji did during the war. It should be quite obvious that Neji/Shikamaru etc will surpass everyone in their clan at some point. Shikamaru is already extremely smart. Not to mention Deidara is in their generation aswell.
Naruto has already surpassed Jiraiya, Sasuke has already surpassed Orochimaru and soon Sakura should pass Tsunade (if she hurries up).
Then in the generation after that, we have Konohamaru (another Sarutobi member) learning an A rank technique and defeating a path of Pain by the time he is even 12 years old.

 

[EliteKakashi]

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Don't ever use filler in a Naruto debate...it gets you no where.

They are still 16 years old... You have already seen what Choji did during the war. It should be quite obvious that Neji/Shikamaru etc will surpass everyone in their clan at some point. Shikamaru is already extremely smart. Not to mention Deidara is in their generation aswell.
Naruto has already surpassed Jiraiya, Sasuke has already surpassed Orochimaru and soon Sakura should pass Tsunade (if she hurries up).
Then in the generation after that, we have Konohamaru (another Sarutobi member) learning an A rank technique and defeating a path of Pain by the time he is even 12 years old.

I don't find it extremely obvious that they'll surpass everyone in their clan. Shikamaru possibly. Neji is a maybe, but surpassing Hiashi will take quite a bit more than what he was shown. You keep bringing up Naruto and Sasuke, I'm not sure why. It was known from pretty much the beginning of Naruto that they would become the best. And Sakura surpassing Tsunade? Doubt it. Tsunade's healing is 2nd to none. She's far ahead of Sakura. Sakura can become a great medic in her own right, but she'll never surpass Tsunade.

And while yes, Konohamaru caught a Path of Pain off guard, he didn't defeat it. The path just left.

The problem with this generation is barely any of it has shown the ability to surpass the ones who came before them. Them being young is no excuse. They should still be able to show something, but they have not.

 

[EL MAGNIFICO]

yeah i totally agree .............though we cant say ...naruto can still surpass hashirama ...sasuke can surpass madara .........who else we want

 

[iSpeak]

Don't ever use filler in a Naruto debate...it gets you no where.



I don't find it extremely obvious that they'll surpass everyone in their clan. Shikamaru possibly. Neji is a maybe, but surpassing Hiashi will take quite a bit more than what he was shown. You keep bringing up Naruto and Sasuke, I'm not sure why. It was known from pretty much the beginning of Naruto that they would become the best. And Sakura surpassing Tsunade? Doubt it. Tsunade's healing is 2nd to none. She's far ahead of Sakura. Sakura can become a great medic in her own right, but she'll never surpass Tsunade.

And while yes, Konohamaru caught a Path of Pain off guard, he didn't defeat it. The path just left.

The problem with this generation is barely any of it has shown the ability to surpass the ones who came before them. Them being young is no excuse. They should still be able to show something, but they have not.

Neji has already reached the Jonin level, and he isn't even from the main branch. Sakura will probably surpass Tsunade. And im talking altogether, not just their healing abilities. Sakura still has another 40 or so years to surpass Tsunade, plenty of time to do it in. You have simply looked at Hashirama's power, and assumed the rest of his generation were as powerful. Madara and Hashirama are basically Naruto and Sasuke, and we can say they will surpass both of them. How can you say them being young is no excuse? are you telling me Madara or Hashirama when they were 16 were as powerful as now? And where did you get old Hiruzen being stronger than all of the Kages?

 

[Blaze Release]

As its been said this only applies to the average ninja's. Ive the current average ninja's are stronger than the previous average ninja's. Also its just a saying, kinda like a motivating tool

 

[siyo]

Back in part 1, Kabuto stated Hiruzen was the strongest of the current kages, even in his old age. At the time we were led to believe that Hiruzen was by far the greatest ever, just because we hadn't really been told much about the history of the Naruto world at the time, so no one really looked much in to a really old man being the best.

Knowing what we do now, though, I think it goes to show how piss poor the current generation(save a couple people of course) is in comparison. Seeing how weak old Hiruzen is in comparison to Hashirama(in terms of his hype at least) now just makes you think. That old man was superior to all these young and supposedly powerful kages, but these kages are nothing compared to Hashirama or Hiruzen in his prime, and according to Kabuto, weren't even on old Hiruzen's level.

What happened to the statement of the new generation surpassing the old one? The new generation hasn't even compared to it's previous one. Hiruzen's generation was the last time that could probably even be considered remotely true. Thoughts?

Good post. However, you are mentioning the exceptions, and some folks simply never got to show their full potential e.g Minato who died way too young to surpass Hiruzen (but he would have due to his potential).

,

 

[EliteKakashi]

Neji has already reached the Jonin level, and he isn't even from the main branch. Sakura will probably surpass Tsunade. And im talking altogether, not just their healing abilities. Sakura still has another 40 or so years to surpass Tsunade, plenty of time to do it in. You have simply looked at Hashirama's power, and assumed the rest of his generation were as powerful. Madara and Hashirama are basically Naruto and Sasuke, and we can say they will surpass both of them. How can you say them being young is no excuse? are you telling me Madara or Hashirama when they were 16 were as powerful as now? And where did you get old Hiruzen being stronger than all of the Kages?

It's possible that Sakura can surpass Tsunade, but I'm still doubting it. Not like it really matters anyway. And no, Hashirama and Madara were not as good at 16 as they were in their prime. However, the point is that most of the "average" ninja as you like to call them have shown nothing to show that they can surpass their elders. How useless has Chouji, Ino, Tenten, Hinata, Kiba, etc, etc. been? At what point have any of them shown even slight signs of surpassing their elders? The Ino-Shika-Cho father combination was a well known and extremely feared combination. The young version? Yeah...not even close. Shikamaru being the only one who has come close to his father's reputation. There is no excuse for it. And Kabuto said it here:

Spoiler

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As its been said this only applies to the average ninja's. Ive the current average ninja's are stronger than the previous average ninja's. Also its just a saying, kinda like a motivating tool

Who do you consider to be "average" ninja?

People are forgetting my biggest point, too..the strongest of their generation(4th raikage, etc) weren't stronger than Hiruzen in his old age. That's the point I'm trying to get at. The best of the best from that generation can't surpass the previous generation's greatest, even in his old age.