The Miracle of Numbers in holy Quran
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i don't think you should post stuff like this on forum which are not Islamic...! being a muslim i can't stand when someone bashes our religion for no reason...! and if you really wanted to post something Islamic then you should have posted it along with it's significance. there are things like this in every religion, but the difference is everything in Islam is based on logic....! and NB is not place to ask people about Islam and what do you think about this...! if you are going to do it then tell them, not ask them...!
just to clerify, my entire point is that the quran shouldn't be viewed as a book of miracles and secrets with a hidden amazing meaning. but as a way of life and guide to know the difference between right and wrong. what he is doing is showing those numbers as a proof that god is real and as a miracle that can only be explained by god's work. but i really don't think this is what the quran is for, all the miracles as you said are signs for unbelievers, but he is obviously not an unbeliever. so why he is looking for miracles in the quran and proofs of it's validity and holiness?
the fact (if it is a fact) that saint marry was a virgin was used as a proof for the masses that jesus was the messiah. but the point was jesus's sayings and way of life, not the fact that his mother was a virgin. but when people talk about jesus they talk less about what he said and delivered and more about all the miracles he performed, like turning water to wine and coming back to life. people give more meaning to small miracles and amazing discoveries then to the saying and verses which are the point of every religion, this thread is no diffrent.
first Quran is a miracle in itself so saying it shouldn't be viewed as a book of miracles is utter ignorance. and Quran itself tells people to explore and you are telling me, we shouldn't look for hidden meanings?? and i agree with next statement that what OP said by no means proves existence of God. yes miracles are for non-believers but they are also to strengthen your own belief....! the way world is progressing you think logic isn't needed to believe in something?? the world is going to rationalism....! if an atheist asks me about God what am i supposed to say that i don't know anything, i just believe that he exists?? I don't know about you but i do need logic to act even if it is told in my religion...! because if we don't don't that then we are just superstitious...!
yes people like to point out miracles more than actual teachings because miracles in their religions give them sense of security...! it strengthens their belief as a said earlier....! and makes them proud of their religion....! miracles are inspiration....! any religion without miracles is hollow as people need to be energized to do something and miracles are there to pick them up....! if we believe that Jesus was born from a virgin then that is what makes Jesus special for us and then we will start listening to him....! nobody wants to listen and act according to what an ordinary man says, just like you are going to ignore everything i said and stick to your opinion but had i shown a miracle then it would have been a totally different story....
I remember hearing something about 666 being connected to a amino acid our body/dna lacks which keeps us from a higher type of awareness or something. I forgot.
Anyways, no need to glorify the qu'ran. It's just one out of many scripts with ancient knowledge in it.
so a religion is only valuable if it has miracles? god is only powerful when he bends reality and magically solve problems? are you seriously saying that the quran and all the verses and songs in it are worthless unless they include manipulation of numbers and predictions of the future?
and tell me, what happens when an athiest asks you about god? what goes through your mind? are you feeling insecurity about god at that moment? difficulty believing in him? i've known people that smile and walk away when i tell them that god doesn't exist and i respect them the most, because they don't care what i think, it's not a question for them. and those people don't go around trying to convince me or other people to believe in god because their goal is not for people to think they are right. when an athiest asks you about god be honset and tell him that you have no proof of god, but you still believe in him. i can assure you that people can't argue with that.
and you probably don't know me very well, but i care the most about regualr, everyday people's opinions. they are the best source in my opinion. i despise sayings like "what would jesus have done?" and i adore sayings like "what would you have done?". with people physicly in front of you you can argue, you can debate and ask questions and give responses and get responses. people who are not prohpets or close to god have a better free will and thus have more constructed and thought of ideas. there is this evolving conversation that in the end everyone goes away with a new perspective and a new idea.
yep, that movie is based on a real obsession of people. there is also a folding of US dollars that shows two high buildings burning and supposdly predicts beforehend the 911. and ofcourse the de vinci code which i'm sure you've seen the movie already.
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Premises:
1. God is omniscient
Deductively, this suggests he cannot make errors. In the above post, you said the word 'Day' is mentioned 365 times. A year is 365.2 days.
Therefore, god is not omniscient, which implies the Qur'an was written by a human.
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huh! dude a religion is a miracle which drives lives of thousands of people....! and if a God can't bend reality then he is human and that my friend is the difference....! All verses of Quran actually do possess something of great value, it can either be about present, past or future....! and it's not fully been deciphered yet and that is why we are asked to explore....! although i told the OP to not post such figures as they prove nothing....!
my friend you may not know it but greatest power of a religion is it's growth....! you are telling me to walk away when an atheist asks me about my religion?? well my religion tells me to spread it, explore it and preach it.....! and it's not about winning the argument, it's about doing the right thing...!
and i wasn't saying what Jesus could or would have said...! i was merely exploiting the inspirational and psychological effects of miracles....! they are necessary for something to be believed in....! and i didn't knew you were not muslim, i mean i'm confused so i addressed you thinking you were muslim but if you are not then my last post held no merit....!
yeah a human knew that the body of pharaoh (firon) will be preserved till Doomsday, now why don't you try and destroy it?? first words cannot be written 365.2 times....! 2nd nobody said it proves anything
and tell me how a human knew that two seas can never mix together....!
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you should watch this video and then think of bashing about something you know nothing about....!
[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlPMe-K2X3A[/video]
i ain't sure about those figures because i haven't counted if it is 365 times or not but what i said i'm pretty sure about that....! so if you wanna try and defy that then i'm up for it and i hope you have watched the video as well....!
accept pain
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verses 19:30-33 in the chapter of Mary in the Quran:
He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!"
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."
Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."
They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us—for the first and the last of us—a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
"And they said we have killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God. They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him. On the contrary, God raised him unto himself. God is almighty and wise."
look clearly jesus is supposed to preach he humanity not winning the argument of there is One God..i just preach my religion.
Itachi Minato
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Actually, it's 365.248 days. I kept it simple for the sake of the thread.
That's besides the point; OP is praising the Qur'an for having these arbitrary correlations, but I'm saying it's pointless as this example is wrong. Otherwise, god would have specifically mentioned the length of a day. Whatever, I guess.
That's besides the point; OP is praising the Qur'an for having these arbitrary correlations, but I'm saying it's pointless as this example is wrong. Otherwise, god would have specifically mentioned the length of a day. Whatever, I guess.
Made in Heaven
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This thread needs tiding up
in any case, the miracles of the Qur'an have barely been touched upon here.
in any case, the miracles of the Qur'an have barely been touched upon here.
in my opinion religion should be for the individual, not the masses. it shouldn't matter how many people follow islam but if you follow it, at least for yourself. people should join islam because they want to, not because you told them to. and most of all people shouldn't join islam because it's god is a magician and can perform miracles but because they truly believe that god is righteous and correct.
and no, i am not a muslim. if anything i am agnostic (maybe god is real, maybe not). but i have respect to any person who live his life in a good way, because of religion or other reasons. i really hate when people preach a belief without understanding why it's good to believe in it. there are many great things in islam, for instance i really like the tradition of giving charity to those who have little in islam (i believe it is called zekat). this is in my opinion a rightous and holy concept that is worthy of worship and following, regardless if it will make a miracle or not. the ultimate power of religion is in the people in it and what they do to other people and the world. you should be proud of your religion because it is a good and rightous one, not because it has many followers or it includes logic or miracles. Mahatma Gandhi is one of the most known religious persons that brought many people to hinduism without performing any miracles or showing logic to prove it, he preached harmony and acceptance and it is why he is worthy of worship.
there was a story in the bible, where satan (an angel walking on the earth in that story) bade god to test one of his most devout followers, Job, because according to satan his belief is only a result of his great fortune. god goes to take Job's land, slaves and even kill his children, and eventually permits satan to give Job a horrible disease that has no cure. in the end, only after Job begs god to kill him, god tells satan that he proved his point and restores Job double of everything he had.
i would suggest if you believe in that god, to be very careful he won't decide one day to kill your children because someone spit in his coffe.
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