[Theory] The Juubi's jinchuriki are not able to use Ninjutsu

[Mr Hiru]

I think that the only people who are able to use Elemental Jutsu are the perfect jinchurikis of the Juubi

I have the feeling that this statement is weak. We have already two examples of Ten Tails Jinchuuriki that have not used Ninjutsu per se, and there is no proof that the Sage was in friendly terms with the Juubi when he was Jinchuuriki.

...we only were able to see an old man that was disappointed of his own path when he was trying to guide the Juubi (this is a hint to tell that he used the beast as a source of power, otherwise he wouldn't feel that disappointment).

And still, the Sage could use the Yin & Yang Release to divide the Juubi. So there is an incoherence that must be explained by this theory, or at least we should wait for more information to clear this out.

 

[Meowazziel]

Great read.
Nice theory.
Plausible.

Maybe their ninjutsu is limited to the ninjutsu that the Juubi can use.
This would tackle certain problems like why can they use yin yang release (its ninjutsu right?)
and are not shown using abilities like Susanoo (Madara) for example, while being the Juubi jin.

 

[Cal52Nagato]

Good theory, but i had theorised that becoming juubi's jinchuuriki denied them the powers of their sharingan and mangekyo sharingan which would explain why obito couldn't kamui and madara hasn't bothered using his susanoo. I hadn't thought it prevented them from using even ninjutsu...just that they prefer using their bijuu abilities as in obito's case or the senjutsu of the six paths as in madara's case to using normal ninjutsu. Nice theory though.

 

[ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD]

Madsy just used limbo and kamui this theory no longer seems plausible.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

I disagree with your thread and the fact that you seems to not be reading the manga.

(1) Madara used Rimbo hengoku, which is a Rinneagn techs and a Ninjutsu
(2) Madara used a lightning Jutsus in chapter 674
(4) The balck ball is a combination of at least 4 nature elemental chakra - this is ninjutsu
(3) The fight is not over, and Kishi only started to lay the foundation

My opinion on this is that Obito was using his eyes to control the Juubi, and therefore, he could do nothing with these eyes. On the other hand, Madara seemed to agree with Juubi and cooperate with it since they are one.

 

[edo tensai wilmaso]

I disagree with your thread and the fact that you seems to not be reading the manga.

(1) Madara used Rimbo hengoku, which is a Rinneagn techs and a Ninjutsu
(2) Madara used a lightning Jutsus in chapter 674
(4) The balck ball is a combination of at least 4 nature elemental chakra - this is ninjutsu
(3) The fight is not over, and Kishi only started to lay the foundation

My opinion on this is that Obito was using his eyes to control the Juubi, and therefore, he could do nothing with these eyes. On the other hand, Madara seemed to agree with Juubi and cooperate with it since they are one.

you should look at the dates this was posted, silly boy

 

[Manry]

This is a jutsu, is it not?

You must be registered for see images

EDIT: Nvm i see this was posted a few months ago..

 

[Meowazziel]

He can use ninjutsus but only those that the juubi jinc form has. Not the ninjutsus that the juubi jinc had before becomming a juubi jinc.

The monent madara uses a jutsu that he had before becomming the juubi jinc, like susanoo, sharingan jutsus or one of his fire jutsus, than we will know more.

 

[XxLotusxX]

Why can Madara travel through dimensions?

 

[Meowazziel]

Why can Madara travel through dimensions?

A few reasons could explain this.

For one, Obito could have talked about phasing individual body parts and that it is something you cant do as the Juubi jin, but going to the dimension by teleporting there, would be possible (for both Obito and Madara).

Maybe because Madara has absorbed the tree, that different rules apply to him or the fact that he is cut in half.

 

[UnknownJin]

Then juubi jin fukcing sux, no ninjutsu ,no susanno , so only taijutsu remains which is kinda useless

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

A few reasons could explain this.

For one, Obito could have talked about phasing individual body parts and that it is something you cant do as the Juubi jin, but going to the dimension by teleporting there, would be possible (for both Obito and Madara).

Maybe because Madara has absorbed the tree, that different rules apply to him or the fact that he is cut in half.

Honestly man it sounds like you're just making up excuses for this theory now that it's pretty much been proven wrong by the manga. I don't really know why Obito could never use Kamui while in juubi mode but madara has clearly used ninjutsu since absorbing the juubi even before he absorbed the tree. So obv. being the juubi jin doesnt make you unable to use ninjutsu.

It's possible that the absorption of the tree somehow allowed him to use kamui but i really don't understand why it would

I doubt being cut in half explains his ability to use kamui, lol.

 

[Meowazziel]

Honestly man it sounds like you're just making up excuses for this theory now that it's pretty much been proven wrong by the manga. I don't really know why Obito could never use Kamui while in juubi mode but madara has clearly used ninjutsu since absorbing the juubi even before he absorbed the tree. So obv. being the juubi jin doesnt make you unable to use ninjutsu.

It's possible that the absorption of the tree somehow allowed him to use kamui but i really don't understand why it would

I doubt being cut in half explains his ability to use kamui, lol.

Well, I am not the OP and its not my theory, but I am just trying to get people to be a bit more openminded. That is different from making up excuses for a theory.

There is ninjutsu and there is Juubi jin ninjutsu.
What I am saying is that the part I can agree on with the theory, is that a Juubi jin, might only be able to use Juubi jin ninjutsu.
Ninjutsu that you can use a Juubi jin, but not without being one and that becomming a Juubi jin doesnt allow you anymore to use other ninjutsu.

Not being able to phase parts of yourself as the Juubi jin aint weird.
The Juubi would have to phase with you probably and that might be something that aint possible, but teleporting as a whole would be possible.

Being cut in half could mean that the Juubi is in one part of Madara and Madara moves with his other part to Kamui.
The least likely one of the explanations though, but I like to keep an open mind for the possiblities.

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Well, I am not the OP and its not my theory, but I am just trying to get people to be a bit more openminded. That is different from making up excuses for a theory.

There is ninjutsu and there is Juubi jin ninjutsu.
What I am saying is that the part I can agree on with the theory, is that a Juubi jin, might only be able to use Juubi jin ninjutsu.
Ninjutsu that you can use a Juubi jin, but not without being one and that becomming a Juubi jin doesnt allow you anymore to use other ninjutsu.

Not being able to phase parts of yourself as the Juubi jin aint weird.
The Juubi would have to phase with you probably and that might be something that aint possible, but teleporting as a whole would be possible.

Being cut in half could mean that the Juubi is in one part of Madara and Madara moves with his other part to Kamui.
The least likely one of the explanations though, but I like to keep an open mind for the possiblities.

It doesnt make sense for the juubi to prevent one from being able to travel to another dimension, when we've clearly seen regular jinchuuriki go to the kamui world. (Obito recently went to kamui world with half of kurama in him)

But the fact still remains that Obito couldn't do it in his incomplete juubi jin form and now Madara can. The best explanation I can come up with is that Madara is special being that he was a reincarnation of Indra, or the absorption of the tree somehow made it possible.

In all honestly I don't think we'll ever get an explanation and this is more of a case of Kishi saying screw it and throwing logic out the window. I mean we've seen Madara use susanoo WITHOUT EYES. It almost seems pointless to search for logic in this manga now lol

 

[Meowazziel]

It doesnt make sense for the juubi to prevent one from being able to travel to another dimension, when we've clearly seen regular jinchuuriki go to the kamui world. (Obito recently went to kamui world with half of kurama in him)

But the fact still remains that Obito couldn't do it in his incomplete juubi jin form and now Madara can. The best explanation I can come up with is that Madara is special being that he was a reincarnation of Indra, or the absorption of the tree somehow made it possible.


In all honestly I don't think we'll ever get an explanation and this is more of a case of Kishi saying screw it and throwing logic out the window. I mean we've seen Madara use susanoo WITHOUT EYES. It almost seems pointless to search for logic in this manga now lol

There is a difference between teleporting your whole body and the phasing through targets ability.
Obito couldnt do the latter, but that doesnt mean he cant do the first.

Phasing through targets would mean part of you exists in the real world and part in Kamui.
It isnt weird that it is something that cant be done while being the Juubi jinc.

Do you get the difference? Because you seem to see phasing and teleporting as the same, but they arent.
I wouldnt be surprised if a jinchuriki cant do the phasing either.
Just as a jinchuriki cant do the reaper death seal according to Minato.

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

There is a difference between teleporting your whole body and the phasing through targets ability.
Obito couldnt do the latter, but that doesnt mean he cant do the first.

Phasing through targets would mean part of you exists in the real world and part in Kamui.
It isnt weird that it is something that cant be done while being the Juubi jinc.

Do you get the difference? Because you seem to see phasing and teleporting as the same, but they arent.
I wouldnt be surprised if a jinchuriki cant do the phasing either.
Just as a jinchuriki cant do the reaper death seal according to Minato.

I get the difference but at the end of the day that difference should be irrelevant. Why would it be impossible to send part of your body to the dimension, but not the whole thing? They are different in that one isn't sending their entire body to the other dimension but either way, they are sending part of their body to the kamui dimension with a mangeyou sharingan.

You are making an unnecessary distinction to try and make them seem different. While in reality, they are caused by the same thing (use of the mangekyou technique, Kamui) What about being a juubi jin would place such specific restrictions on the use of this mangekyou technique?

Where did it say that Obito only couldn't use "phasing"? Nowhere. He didn't use Kamui AT ALL while the juubi jinchuuriki. He would still be able to dodge attacks by transporting his whole body to the kamui dimension if he wanted to, IF it was possible, but apparently it wasn't but now is for Madara.

Why can Madara do it now? If being the Juubi Jinchuuriki prevents it why can Madara still do it?

Kish hasn't even attempted to explain this, which is why I say he just said **** it and we're never going to get an explanation.

 

[Meowazziel]

I get the difference but at the end of the day that difference should be irrelevant. Why would it be impossible to send part of your body to the dimension, but not the whole thing? They are different in that one isn't sending their entire body to the other dimension but either way, they are sending part of their body to the kamui dimension with a mangeyou sharingan.

You are making an unnecessary distinction to try and make them seem different. While in reality, they are caused by the same thing (use of the mangekyou technique, Kamui) What about being a juubi jin would place such specific restrictions on the use of this mangekyou technique?

Where did it say that Obito only couldn't use "phasing"? Nowhere. He didn't use Kamui AT ALL while the juubi jinchuuriki. He would still be able to dodge attacks by transporting his whole body to the kamui dimension if he wanted to, IF it was possible, but apparently it wasn't but now is for Madara.

Why can Madara do it now? If being the Juubi Jinchuuriki prevents it why can Madara still do it?

Kish hasn't even attempted to explain this, which is why I say he just said **** it and we're never going to get an explanation.

Again, phasing would mean part exists in the real world and part exists in the Kamui world.
That would happen with the Juubi too. He would exist in parts in 2 worlds in 2 dimensions.
It is not weird that something like that cant be done to the Juubi and is therefore a restriction.

Whereas by teleporting the whole body, Obito and the Juubi would remain whole together and only exist in
1 world, 1 dimension.
Why would Obito teleport his whole body away in his battle vs Minato, Tobirama, Naruto and Sasuke?
He didnt had a reason to. It would just delay the battle.
Next to this, teleporting his whole self away, takes longer than phasing.
With Tobirama and Minato (FTG), a super fast Naruto and than Sasuke added to it as well, that is not
something that is easy to do vs them.

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Again, phasing would mean part exists in the real world and part exists in the Kamui world.
That would happen with the Juubi too. He would exist in parts in 2 worlds in 2 dimensions.
It is not weird that something like that cant be done to the Juubi and is therefore a restriction.

Whereas by teleporting the whole body, Obito and the Juubi would remain whole together and only exist in
1 world, 1 dimension.
Why would Obito teleport his whole body away in his battle vs Minato, Tobirama, Naruto and Sasuke?
He didnt had a reason to. It would just delay the battle.
Next to this, teleporting his whole self away, takes longer than phasing.
With Tobirama and Minato (FTG), a super fast Naruto and than Sasuke added to it as well, that is not
something that is easy to do vs them.

I understand your point about part existing here and in another world. My point is you can still easily avoid attacks by warping your entire body, then warping back to the real world. We've seen Obito do this in battle before. He can even warp from one spot, and warp back into the real world in a different spot. This would still make his Kamui viable in battle and not completely unusable. You're right about it being slower(Madara got cut in half using it...) but it never said it couldn't be used because it was slow, Obito said "Now that the juubi is in me, I can't travel through dimensions

The phasing would make no sense BUT Madara just did it! He sent half his body to the kamui world! He was cut in half, but wouldnt the same logic apply? Now maybe the entire juubi is contained in his upper half(This is me attempting to make logic out of it) but still, Obito apparently couldn't use Kamui at all as the juubi's jin and now Madara can. I guess he just discarded his lower half and will regen it from his current self in kamui world? I'm assuming that's what's going to happen. as we've seen him regen from pretty bad already.

Anyway that wasn't the point of this thread it was that juubi jinchuuriki's cant use ninjutsu at all, not just the Kamui thing. And to that I say "Nein" though I understand your reasoning for the Kamui thing, and maybe you're right, but this manga has been VERY inconsistent with things like this.

 

[Six Paths]

I understand your point about part existing here and in another world. My point is you can still easily avoid attacks by warping your entire body, then warping back to the real world. We've seen Obito do this in battle before. He can even warp from one spot, and warp back into the real world in a different spot. This would still make his Kamui viable in battle and not completely unusable. You're right about it being slower(Madara got cut in half using it...) but it never said it couldn't be used because it was slow, Obito said "Now that the juubi is in me, I can't travel through dimensions

The phasing would make no sense BUT Madara just did it! He sent half his body to the kamui world! He was cut in half, but wouldnt the same logic apply? Now maybe the entire juubi is contained in his upper half(This is me attempting to make logic out of it) but still, Obito apparently couldn't use Kamui at all as the juubi's jin and now Madara can. I guess he just discarded his lower half and will regen it from his current self in kamui world? I'm assuming that's what's going to happen. as we've seen him regen from pretty bad already.

Anyway that wasn't the point of this thread it was that juubi jinchuuriki's cant use ninjutsu at all, not just the Kamui thing. And to that I say "Nein" though I understand your reasoning for the Kamui thing, and maybe you're right, but this manga has been VERY inconsistent with things like this.

The reason why Madara could teleport was only because the fruit "trusts" him now. It allowed Madara's and the it's chakra to melt with one another and in this way they were able to use jutsu normally. What we are seeing now is the Perfect Jinchuriki of the Juubi.

 

[Meowazziel]

I understand your point about part existing here and in another world. My point is you can still easily avoid attacks by warping your entire body, then warping back to the real world. We've seen Obito do this in battle before. He can even warp from one spot, and warp back into the real world in a different spot. This would still make his Kamui viable in battle and not completely unusable. You're right about it being slower(Madara got cut in half using it...) but it never said it couldn't be used because it was slow, Obito said "Now that the juubi is in me, I can't travel through dimensions

The phasing would make no sense BUT Madara just did it! He sent half his body to the kamui world! He was cut in half, but wouldnt the same logic apply? Now maybe the entire juubi is contained in his upper half(This is me attempting to make logic out of it) but still, Obito apparently couldn't use Kamui at all as the juubi's jin and now Madara can. I guess he just discarded his lower half and will regen it from his current self in kamui world? I'm assuming that's what's going to happen. as we've seen him regen from pretty bad already.

Anyway that wasn't the point of this thread it was that juubi jinchuuriki's cant use ninjutsu at all, not just the Kamui thing. And to that I say "Nein" though I understand your reasoning for the Kamui thing, and maybe you're right, but this manga has been VERY inconsistent with things like this.

The thing is, different translations exist.
In the viz or the ***********, he talks about phasing and not just about traveling through dimensions if I am not mistaken.

I dont believe btw that the Juubi jin cant use ninjutsu at all.
What I find possible, as I posted earlier, is that the Juubi jin can only use Juubi jin ninjutsu.
Ninjutsu that a juubi jin has access to, once becomming the Juubi jin, meaning you wont have access to your old ninjutsus that you had before you became a Juubi jin.

Maybe you will have access to more or to it all as a perfect Juubi jin though.
Where the Juubi and the Jinchuriki work together and certain limits are removed.