[Discussion] The Hope of Hagoromo

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
The newest chapter gave a specific answer that the Prophecy of the Sage will come true regardless of what Madara ever does. His words made himself a failure. and that without him even understanding it fully. Madara's words regarding Hagoromo's wish of binding every human together by the use of chakra has already happen and the way to peace will be open through the hatred of the world that has been created. I will be discussing two things in this thread, Hagoromo's dream and Hagoromo's cruelty.

You must be registered for see images

As you can say, from what Madara told us in the latest chapter. Hagoromo wanted to connect the world with his ninja teachings, so that everyone could understand each other without the need of words. Nagato wishes for everyone to understand his pain, Naruto wishes to understand everyone's hatred and Sasuke wishes to know everything. They all wish to know so they can do whats best fitted for each situation for everyone. Madara said this, without knowing that this has already happen. During the current war, Naruto gave some of his Bijuu chakra to each member of the Alliance and through that they were able to understand what Naruto felt, though and his dreams.

So Hagoromo's wish has partially come true, everyone understands Naruto but he doesn't understand everyone neither does everyone understand everyone else. Now, its not a big shock that Madara will fail, but the fact that he was the one to prove it is a little shocking. Now I just wanted to point that out, but now comes the main part of this thread, The Cruelty of Hagoromo.

- - - -

Now a majority of people have always believed that Hagoromo was a really kind guy, and he was. But he was also a realist, and he wished for peace deeply. But he also knew that he could never obtain peace and therefore he had two sons. Now, something that has always bothered me with his sons is that he picked a single one to be his heir. The same man who believed that peace would be obtained once everyone were connected and understood each other, that man created hatred because he separated two brothers. I think I know why he chose a single heir instead of choosing two, because as we know, the brothers symbolize Yin and Yang.

I don't think Hagoromo picked his younger son because of his ideals, no I think he picked him so that his elder brother would hate him. I think Hagoromo wanted to create the circle of hatred and plunge the world into despair, hatred and war once again. Now, why would the man who wished for peace want this? The answer is simple, balance. I think that the Sage knew and understood that peace cannot be created from ones ideals bluntly, it has to be forced and understood at the same time. To obtain peace, the world must first know hatred, despair and cruelty. They must understand that and force the world to change themselves, that is what I believe the Sage sought after. The younger son was never meant to bring peace, neither was his older. They were meant to create peace together by understand each other and using both of their ideals to bring forth peace. Now, why do I call this cruelty? Well its as simple as the fact that Hagoromo wished for hatred, death and pain so that peace could be born and I have some sort of proof to back this up too.

Think about the world in the Narutoverse right now, the Alliance is united to fight a common enemy. But how did they become that? How did they unite? Was it because they understood each other? No, they never did prior to this war, and they would never have done it either. They are an alliance now because Obito forced the war upon them, because he took the power and forced peace amongst the villages. But we know that a peace that is forced will never last, Madara also know that. Which is why he has so little care for the Alliance right now. But through the course of the war, the alliance have started to understand each other and through the connection to Naruto they have begun to understand how he feels. The Uchiha, the lineage of the Older Son has forced peace through power, just as the Older Son was the way to peace. While the Uzumaki/Senju, the lineage of the Younger Son have maintained the peace through love and care for each other, that is whats kept the alliance from falling apart.

Naruto and Sasuke, Sasuke more specifically is the one that understands the world now. The world has obtained the power, hatred and darkness from the Uchiha and the love, care and light from the Senju lineage. Now all they need is the understanding of each other to maintain what they have gotten. Everything is going according to how the Sage wanted it, the world is slowly going into peace, as if you wish something, something of equal value must be gambled. The Sage wished to save existence by making peace, so he gambled existence itself. If the Alliance, Naruto and Sasuke and everyone else fails, they will lose their existence to Madara. However if they fail, they will save it and create peace.
 

Zorø

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
11,729
Reaction score
687
Nice thread!!
 

Six Paths

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
16,506
Reaction score
1,135
Interesting Idea. You are saying that the sage planned all of this as kind of backup plan if the previous plan would fail, and it actually did.
 

KCMNaruto

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
1,153
The newest chapter gave a specific answer that the Prophecy of the Sage will come true regardless of what Madara ever does. His words made himself a failure. and that without him even understanding it fully. Madara's words regarding Hagoromo's wish of binding every human together by the use of chakra has already happen and the way to peace will be open through the hatred of the world that has been created. I will be discussing two things in this thread, Hagoromo's dream and Hagoromo's cruelty.

You must be registered for see images

As you can say, from what Madara told us in the latest chapter. Hagoromo wanted to connect the world with his ninja teachings, so that everyone could understand each other without the need of words. Nagato wishes for everyone to understand his pain, Naruto wishes to understand everyone's hatred and Sasuke wishes to know everything. They all wish to know so they can do whats best fitted for each situation for everyone. Madara said this, without knowing that this has already happen. During the current war, Naruto gave some of his Bijuu chakra to each member of the Alliance and through that they were able to understand what Naruto felt, though and his dreams.

So Hagoromo's wish has partially come true, everyone understands Naruto but he doesn't understand everyone neither does everyone understand everyone else. Now, its not a big shock that Madara will fail, but the fact that he was the one to prove it is a little shocking. Now I just wanted to point that out, but now comes the main part of this thread, The Cruelty of Hagoromo.

- - - -

Now a majority of people have always believed that Hagoromo was a really kind guy, and he was. But he was also a realist, and he wished for peace deeply. But he also knew that he could never obtain peace and therefore he had two sons. Now, something that has always bothered me with his sons is that he picked a single one to be his heir. The same man who believed that peace would be obtained once everyone were connected and understood each other, that man created hatred because he separated two brothers. I think I know why he chose a single heir instead of choosing two, because as we know, the brothers symbolize Yin and Yang.

I don't think Hagoromo picked his younger son because of his ideals, no I think he picked him so that his elder brother would hate him. I think Hagoromo wanted to create the circle of hatred and plunge the world into despair, hatred and war once again. Now, why would the man who wished for peace want this? The answer is simple, balance. I think that the Sage knew and understood that peace cannot be created from ones ideals bluntly, it has to be forced and understood at the same time. To obtain peace, the world must first know hatred, despair and cruelty. They must understand that and force the world to change themselves, that is what I believe the Sage sought after. The younger son was never meant to bring peace, neither was his older. They were meant to create peace together by understand each other and using both of their ideals to bring forth peace. Now, why do I call this cruelty? Well its as simple as the fact that Hagoromo wished for hatred, death and pain so that peace could be born and I have some sort of proof to back this up too.

Think about the world in the Narutoverse right now, the Alliance is united to fight a common enemy. But how did they become that? How did they unite? Was it because they understood each other? No, they never did prior to this war, and they would never have done it either. They are an alliance now because Obito forced the war upon them, because he took the power and forced peace amongst the villages. But we know that a peace that is forced will never last, Madara also know that. Which is why he has so little care for the Alliance right now. But through the course of the war, the alliance have started to understand each other and through the connection to Naruto they have begun to understand how he feels. The Uchiha, the lineage of the Older Son has forced peace through power, just as the Older Son was the way to peace. While the Uzumaki/Senju, the lineage of the Younger Son have maintained the peace through love and care for each other, that is whats kept the alliance from falling apart.

Naruto and Sasuke, Sasuke more specifically is the one that understands the world now. The world has obtained the power, hatred and darkness from the Uchiha and the love, care and light from the Senju lineage. Now all they need is the understanding of each other to maintain what they have gotten. Everything is going according to how the Sage wanted it, the world is slowly going into peace, as if you wish something, something of equal value must be gambled. The Sage wished to save existence by making peace, so he gambled existence itself. If the Alliance, Naruto and Sasuke and everyone else fails, they will lose their existence to Madara. However if they fail, they will save it and create peace.

^^ Yes, very good thread and excellent points pointed in your post.

However I disagree with bolded part, because I think Sage simply tried to use Elder Son's method to obtain peace by forcing people by power. He noticed that he made mistakeso he wanted to try another method and entrusted his beliefs to his younger son. However I agree that Younger Son was never meant to obtain peace alone but rather Younger Son and Older Son have to work together to obtain peace, but main purpouse was that Sage wanted Younger son's way to lead brothers to unite and work together towards peace.

I simply can not agree with Sage forcing cycle of hate on his sons and other generations as he is not that kind of person.
 

Uzumaki18

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Nice thread, with good points too.. The sage was a kind and smart man, i don't think he wished for peace this way tho.
 

Fountain

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,415
Reaction score
367
You put good effort into this wall, It was a good read :]
 

Mr Hiru

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,415
Reaction score
546
The whole thread was very well made. You had insightful points of view.

But, I have a question... why would Hagoromo repeat what his mother did? (using power to reach peace)

That didn't work.
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
The whole thread was very well made. You had insightful points of view.

But, I have a question... why would Hagoromo repeat what his mother did? (using power to reach peace)

That didn't work.

It didn't work with Kaguya, because she lacked the pieces to full fill the plan.Hagoromo had his two sons and with that he had an opportunity which his mother didn't. He had the balance of two brothers, Kaguya as far as we know only had a single child. Kaguya had one half of the needed pieces, she had power and she had the means, but she lacked the love, care and she never reached understanding amongst everyone.
 

Mr Hiru

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,415
Reaction score
546
It didn't work with Kaguya, because she lacked the pieces to full fill the plan.Hagoromo had his two sons and with that he had an opportunity which his mother didn't. He had the balance of two brothers, Kaguya as far as we know only had a single child. Kaguya had one half of the needed pieces, she had power and she had the means, but she lacked the love, care and she never reached understanding amongst everyone.

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing out this.
 
Top