The Gokage ( Fused into one character ) vs EMS Madara

[Black Wolf]

"Stab from behind gg" doesn't work on someone with Raikage-level durability and Tsunade's regeneration. Any normal sword will literally bounce off the fusion (given Chidorigatana bounced off Raikage's neck).

To bypass the fusion's durability, he'd need an upper form of Susano'o. Furthermore, with Raikage's reflexes and Gaara's auto-sand defense, it's questionable whether something like that would work to begin with.

 

[Strict]

But he isn't prepared to that. The sword bounced off because the Raikage had his Raiton armour activated. In this case, he will be completely off guard, as he believes in Madara's death. With Izanagi, he appears at the desired destination, which in this case could be right behind him. As Madara's Izanagi is not the imperfect version of Danzo, we can gaze a Madara who is immortal for at least 10 minutes and is capable of using his other techniques as ever; Susanoo, Genjutsu, Juubi sized Katon. Fused doesn't mean immunity to certain techniques, such as MS Genjutsu, which let A with his durability and Bijuu level Chakra collapse, having no chance and being saved from Susanoo by Onoki, who released the Genjutsu for him and took him away. We witnessed scenarios, in which such a MS Genjutsu let the victim lose his consciousness. What if he uses the suprising moment of Izanagi to appear before this opponent and cast a Genjutsu directly? When this opponent will be off guard, thinking that he just killed Madara.

btw, Madara also has a Gunbai, which absorbed a Bijuudama and reflected it.

 

[Black Wolf]

Base Raikage is still extremely durable; where a normal human got covered in cuts from Mabui's technique (Tsunade), he escaped without a scratch. I'd still wager that a normal sword won't do anything to him. And as I said, there is still Gaara's auto-sand defense.

Juubi sized Katons are laughed at with Mei's Tsunade-chakra-battery enhanced Suitons. Mei cannonically countered one of Madara's smaller Katons, and with both Tsunade and Raikage's Bijuu-level chakra pools available to her, the fusion can believably conjure up Suitons powerful enough to snuff out any Katon Madara spits out.

Where are you getting ten minutes of immortality? Danzo had ten Sharingans and Hashirama's face implanted on his arm. EMS Madara has no Hashirama cells inside of him; he arguably can't even use Izanagi since he only used it after biting off a chunk of Hashirama's arm (and Izanagi requires Senju + Uchiha blood, which I'm assuming EMS Madara doesn't have).

The fusion will be moving too fast to be caught by Genjutsu with Raikage's speed (further lightened by Onoki); Raikage only got caught when he diverted his attention to Tsunade, and after a long, exhausting battle. EMS Madara can't even use shadow clones to begin with, and doesn't have the luxury of unlimited stamina.

 

[Strict]

True with Raikage's durability.

But disagree on Mei's Suiton. Larger Chakra reserves don't mean that the Suiton will increase. Madara can vary between small Katon and Juubi sized Katon, which is only depended by the technique used. She has no technique on such a scale to begin with, and a certain Suiton Jutsu won't grow a dozen times just because the Chakra increased. You may underestimate Juubi's size; one Tomoe already has the size of a human. Mei would already need to increase her Suiton a dozen times to cover Juubi's eye. Measured by quantity, Mei's Suiton would needed to be increased thousand of times. Juubi's size is just immense. In front of such a Katon, even the size of Kisame's Suiton becomes a Joke.

And yes, Obito used Izanagi to survive 10 minutes of Konan's explosion. It doesn't matter that Danzo had Hashirama's DNA. Senju DNA is usually required along with Uchiha DNA to use Izanagi to begin with, but Black Zetsu emphasized, that Madara somehow created Izanagi in his eye like Itachi sealed Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye - "With Mangekyo Sharingan, you can create techniques which would activate after a certain time". Madara planned this for the fight with Hashirama. As for the piece of flesh he bit off of Hashirama, he merely swallowed it. Black Zetsu explicitly said, that Madara implaned his cells after he was revived by Izanagi. No excuses please.

I also talked about the Genjutsu when used in a surprise attack. Fact is, when this opponent believes that he killed Madara, there is no reason to watch out. He will be completely off guard. And the sand won't grant protection, as with Izanagi, he can appear at the desired destination after he got killed. In other words, reviving himself at the desired destination. And then what is his counter for such a powerful Genjutsu? Again, this opponent will believe in Madara's death, like Konan did. So reflexes and speed don't matter. He will be completely surprised, hence there will be absolutely no reason to avoid any eye contact. Unsurprisingly, since nobody would be prepared for a dead to appear from nothing.

Assuming this surprising attack won't work, Madara won't stand a chance in scenario 1 though. As for scenario 2, perfect Susanoo is still too much.

 

[Black Wolf]

At least as far as Tsunade's "battery" potential is concerned, more chakra = bigger. She directly increased the size of Onoki's Jinton and Sakura directly amplified Kamui (and Sakura is a Tsunade-clone for the most part). Furthermore, Edo Madara had Hashirama's face implanted on his chest, and Senju cells canonically bolster jutsu; EMS Madara doesn't have that, and his Katons get scaled down accordingly.

No, Obito used it to survive 5 minutes of the explosion. Konan's entire explosion lasted 10 minutes, and Kamui grants 5 minutes intangibility, so at best Obito used Izanagi to last the remaining 5 minutes. And half of Obito's entire body is literally composed of Hashirama cells; EMS Madara did not get Hashirama cells until the very end of the fight.

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The Mangekyo Sharingan activating techniques after a certain time isn't what I'm debating; it's Madara's capability to utilize Izanagi without Senju cells. How do you know that it wasn't part of the plan to bite off Hashirama's arm? Fact of the matter is, Izanagi has never been used without having Senju cells present in the body (Obito, Danzo, and even Madara) and we have a statement outright telling us Izanagi requires Senju + Uchiha cells. Madara only used Izanagi after he bit off a piece of Hashirama's arm.

Gaara's sand is auto-defense. Even when Lee was attacking Gaara in his blind spots,

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I wasn't talking about scenario 2; if you read my first post I already said they lack the offense to breach Perfect Susano'o.

 

[Strict]

Then, Black Zetsu would have explicitly say, that, after Madara obtained a piece of Hashirama's flesh, he was able to perform Izanagi. But no, he explicitly noted that Madara created Izanagi in his eye. And again, having a piece of Hashirama's meat in the stomach doesn't equal having the DNA. After he was revived, he implanted those cells. It's a weak excuse from your side. Madara certainly used Izanagi without Hashirama's DNA involved, hence Black Zetsu phrased it this way. And as for Onoki, Jinton is an entirely other matter. It's size is depended on the Chakra put in, as the larger the amount of Chakra put in, the larger the three dimensional object becomes, or the more power it releases. All the Jinton is based on, is the creation of the same three dimensional objects which merely vary in size and form. If a Suiton user on the other hand wanted to use a larger Suiton technique, he would rather insist on another kind of Ninjutsu which would provide said scale. In other words, if Madara wants to use a huger Katon, he rather uses Gōka Messhitsu instead scaling his initial Katon Jutsu up with more Chakra.

Even with a boost of Tsunade, Mei's Suiton wouldn't come near Juubi's size, which has the size of a mountain.

I think it's also not debatable, that Hashirama's DNA did not boost Madara's Katon. Madara is the most powerful Katon user ever, so those powerful Katon Jutsu are reduced to his skills he was feared for and for which Tsunade warned, emphasizing the feats he showed. Hashirama's DNA didn't boost Edo Madara's other techniques either. So these are empty words.

2) Obito noted that, in order to open other dimensions than his own, he would require a huge amount of Chakra. Chakra which Sakura possessed ue to storing up Chakra in her Byakugo seal for years, something probably not even Tsunade did. So if anything, Sakura is an advanced version of Tsunade.

3) The auto-defence of Gaara's sand doesn't matter in this case, as Genjutsu only requires visual contact with no movements the sand should react to. Apart from that, I already pointed out that with Izanagi, the used determines the destination of his revival. If he appears right behind the opponents back, the sand won't react as to an incoming attack.

 

[Black Wolf]

Why would Black Zetsu say that when we literally see Madara biting Hashirama's arm on the previous page? He put Izanagi in his eye after being exposed to Senju cells. It's not a weak excuse at all; you're just intent on forcing the idea that Madara is a magical exception to a well established rule, even though he had Senju cells in his body when he used Izanagi. Featswise, Madara never used Izanagi without Senju cells, and neither has any other Izanagi user.

Why would Jinton be an entirely other matter? Why is it different than any other technique? Where are you getting this very specific explanation of yours that differentiates Jinton from any other attack? Tsunade has displayed the ability to directly amplify an attack's power, and I have no reason to believe that Suiton won't work when it worked on Jinton and Kamui.

And as I said, we have never seen Madara's Katons without Senju cells in his body. His Juubi-sized Katon was performed when he had Hashirama's face implanted on his chest and it has been stated time and time again that Senju cells strengthen everything. Not sure how you're calling my words empty when all you've been doing is denying manga canon, with your only excuse being "because its Madara."

I referenced Gaara's sand defense to the already-disproven notion of Madara attempting to blind-side with Izanagi. The fusion's Genjutsu defense is lightened V2 Raikage level Shunshins.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Gokage poweranger stomps both situations

Ay and onooki combo made Ay move past v2 levels which is basically like BM levels so it would b a flying BM speed lvl character

Also jinton tht destroyed the 26 Susannos would b a regular jinton for this character since he has all of the gokage chakra .-.
Gaara auto defense sensing sealing techs .-. Tsuande byukogo mode .-. Mei acid mist .-.
Also he will know fire lighting earth wind water rerelease all 5 elements .-.
Weight changing tech .-. And the reflexes of Ay and Gaara auto sand defense ./. That protects him wether he wants to or not .-.
tbh idk if current sasuke would b able to beat this character current naruto tho will just bijuudama until this character is destoryed tbh this character solos majority top ten (not including sage Fam )

 

[Black Wolf]

No, the Jinton that he used there would still cause his chakra to plummet. Sure, he can use it more than once, maybe even four, five, or six times, but isn't going to be his go-to move, and even then it was dwarfed by Perfect Susano'o. Unless they can make a Jinton the size of Perfect Susano'o, they're not breaching it (and even then, Susano'os durability increases with each layer of armor, so I'd assume Perfect Susano'os durability is greater than any of the previous levels).

Current Sasuke bisected Juubi Madara and impaled him on his sword. Current Sasuke does the same to this fusion, just impales his head instead.

 

[Varrah]

As Madara's Izanagi is not the imperfect version of Danzou, we can gaze a Madara who is immortal for at least 10 minutes.

That’s always an interpretation, but I think the suggestion is that Madara has an imperfect Izanagi; the more “perfect” Izanagi is the only Obito showed during his fight with Konan—that version required Senju cells; and a "lesser" version of that perfection is Danzou’s usage of Izanagi.

Where are you getting ten minutes of immortality? Danzo had ten Sharingans and Hashirama's face implanted on his arm. EMS Madara has no Hashirama cells inside of him; he arguably can't even use Izanagi since he only used it after biting off a chunk of Hashirama's arm (and Izanagi requires Senju + Uchiha blood, which I'm assuming EMS Madara doesn't have).

And yes, Obito used Izanagi to survive 10 minutes of Konan's explosion. It doesn't matter that Danzo had Hashirama's DNA. Senju DNA is usually required along with Uchiha DNA to use Izanagi to begin with, but Black Zetsu emphasized, that Madara somehow created Izanagi in his eye like Itachi sealed Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye - "With Mangekyo Sharingan, you can create techniques which would activate after a certain time". Madara planned this for the fight with Hashirama. As for the piece of flesh he bit off of Hashirama, he merely swallowed it. Black Zetsu explicitly said, that Madara implaned his cells after he was revived by Izanagi. No excuses please.

Danzou had an imperfect Izanagi, in comparison to Obito’s. Madara, perchance, had the weltered Izanagi the Uchiha were spamming during a certain era. Izanagi by itself does not need Senju genetics, only Uchiha, which is supported by the fact Izanami is a countenance to Izanagi, Madara’s scripted use of the technique, and Itachi using Izanami, who we know doesn’t possess a Senju makeover.

The implications of Izanagi requiring Senju cells means that every Uchiha during Itachi’s description of Izanami’s ability and purpose went out and hijacked a Senju cells.

Perhaps, think the use of Izanagi can be used an incomplete form, Madara’s use and the Uchiha clansmen—and to an extent, as far as mastery goes, Danzou, and a complete form, Obito. And I don’t follow how Madara’s digestion of Hashimara’s flesh, leads to the immediate use of Izanagi. I personally think the author did not yet have the particulars planned for Izanagi, much so like the Mangekyou techniques needed for Susanoo.

There’s also the chance that Masashi was using Obito as an unreliable narrator for certain things, and Izanagi may have been one of them.

 

[Alfred Pennyworth]

but EMS Sasuke was able to tag Juubito who should be way faster than even lightened Ei....

but PS's size>>that of complete susanoo , which makes rotation much more difficult.
plus Gokage can use super-weighted boulder jutsu to make it even harder.

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

tsunade+raikage chakra reserves and jinton?

ps gets atomized, not that there is any need for it, just aim where madara stands, at the top

 

[TRE MERCER]

Maddy gets raped in scene 1. He wins scene 2 via ps.

 

[RedRobin]

The only reason Jinton didnt work against Madara was because of preta path. Here he doesnt have that ability so Jinton takes care of him.

 

[Yocolaw]

They still loses to gai

 

[lanakui8]

but PS's size>>that of complete susanoo , which makes rotation much more difficult.

if you assume that madara's bigger PS is slower than Sasuke's. but even if it is, it doesn't really matter since it being much bigger means the opponent would have to travel a much greater distance to get behind or around it, therefore giving it more time to rotate.

plus Gokage can use super-weighted boulder jutsu to make it even harder.

super weighted rocks requires longer contact the larger the object being weighed down. The gokage opponent can't really afford to stay in one place when facing someone who can tag Juubito while he's zooming around. Even super light rock clones with RnY won't be of much use at creating an opening or diversions since Madara's sharingan can distinguish between clone and original. Unless the rock clones are powerful enough to use jinton or to use the super heavy weighted technique on PS. If that's the case, then that gokage might have a legitimate shot at beating Madara.

 

[ARGUS]

Scenario 1: This Gokage fusion annihilates madara,,
--brutal strength along with A's speed and reflexes to evade most of madaras attacks and along with tsunades healing, he can fire off large scale jintons that can atomise all the allowed variants of susanoo here, and with hidden mist countering his dojutsu,, and tsunade buffing the jutsus up and healing, this character is hax

Scenario 2: This fusion wins if it can take out madara before he brings out his PS, if not then madara wins this since his PS can still take out this fusion as its attacks are faster than the jintons that are required to atomise it, as well as the weighhted boulder required to make it heavy,
and the defenses of this character are still not enough to survive against its attacks, nor is its speed sufficient enough to evade its onslaught

The strongest character this fusion can beat is healthy nagato or EMS Sasuke,

But EMS Sasuke is superior to EMS Madara in every possible way.

No he isnt, despite having his susanoo buffed up by Naruto, his PS is still inferior to EMS madara and thats all that matters in their battle,on top of the fact that madarass chakra reserves are much higher, and if madara can summon the kyuubi then sasuke is done for