[Theory] The figure shown in the big Chibaku Tensei is Hamura?

[SkyGodHorus]

I've been thinking this from the reveal. After all, he looks nothing like Hagoromo in his old or young form, his hair is long and straight and his eyes are white like the Byakugan.

Spoiler

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The databook states Hamura and the oostutsuki clan went to the moon to look after the Mazou. Perhaps he was the one who gave Sasuke the moon crest rather than Hagoromo via his chakra network from the moon? Or perhaps his spirit was there just like Hagoromo, but remained in the crest or invisible? Perhaps it's the Hyuuga ancestor or even the current elder of the Ootsutsuki clan? Maybe we'll find out in the movie.

 

[Huang]

My guess it's Kunitokotachi. Look it up.
He's the father of Izanami and Izanagi, who spawned Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, and Susanoó.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

My guess it's Kunitokotachi. Look it up.
He's the father of Izanami and Izanagi, who spawned Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, and Susanoó.

While that does seem interesting and would mirror Kishimoto's consistent shinto referencing, I believe it's an actual person. What makes you think it is Kunitokotachi?

 

[VongolaX]

The figure could be Hagoromoo and Haruma's father...

 

[Mr Hiru]

I doubt it being Hamura.

The background figure might resemble Hamura, but Hamura doesn't have a third eye, as far as I can remember.

Edit: There

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[SkyGodHorus]

I doubt it being Hamura.

The background figure might resemble Hamura, but Hamura doesn't have a third eye, as far as I can remember.

Edit: There

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That isn't a third eye. It's some kind of tattoo or seal just like Hagoromo's. The same exact pattern appears on Naruto, Obito and Hagoromo's cloaks.

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[Mr Hiru]

That isn't a third eye. It's some kind of tattoo or seal just like Hagoromo's. The same exact pattern appears on Naruto, Obito and Hagoromo's cloaks.

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All things related to that thing in the forehead being a "seal" is pure conjecture, since it doesn't even have a good explanation inside the manga. We don't even know if it has a role. It might be a seal, it might not be a seal... it might play a role, it might not. Nobody knows.

All I know is about the fact is that, in the image I posted, Hagoromo has it, and Hamura does not. And that, in the image you posted, the spiritual figure has it, in the forehead, just like Hagoromo.

So, the most logical explanation is (since the figure is clearly paralleled to Hagoromo in the scan) that the spiritual figure is Hagomoro himself.

Finally, to tell something that may be common sense, since even in manga this was told: Hair can be cut (Sakura and Sasuke had several haircut changes through the series). Ergo, the hair resemblence isn't of much importance.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

All things related to that thing in the forehead being a "seal" is pure conjecture, since it doesn't even have a good explanation inside the manga. We don't even know if it has a role. It might be a seal, it might not be a seal... it might play a role, it might not. Nobody knows.

That's why this is a " theory" thread. All the same, I honestly don't need proof that that's not an eye. As I said, the exact same pattern is on the cloak, it's illustration is one-dimensional and the two lines are horizontal and straight unlike Kaguya's eye's corners. Yes, I'm sure you'll conveniently say that's not proof. Oh well. It looks like a mark to me. I care little for what you believe it is unless you can support it like I did. You want to say it's an eye, fine, but there's no basis for it, just you attempting to be contrarian with me to get under my skin like you always attempt lols.

All I know is about the fact is that, in the image I posted, Hagoromo has it, and Hamura does not. And that, in the image you posted, the spiritual figure has it, in the forehead, just like Hagoromo.

So, the most logical explanation is (since the figure is clearly paralleled to Hagoromo in the scan) that the spiritual figure is Hagomoro himself.

It has no Rinnegan, but instead white eyes like Byakugan, Hamura has long, straight white hair like him and unlike Hagoromo and his goatee is different. Being that he has no horns, I also predicted it may be the hyuuga ancestor, (Hamura's son) or the current leader of the Ootsutsukis on the moon.

Finally, to tell something that may be common sense, since even in manga this was told: Hair can be cut (Sakura and Sasuke had several haircut changes through the series). Ergo, the hair resemblence isn't of much importance.

The same logic can be applied to he having the mark on his head if you want to be literal. All the same, I'm simply using Hamura and the Hyuuga's characteristics.

 

[Mr Hiru]

That's why this is a " theory" thread. All the same, I honestly don't need proof that that's not an eye. As I said, the exact same pattern is on the cloak, it's illustration is one-dimensional and the two lines are horizontal and straight unlike Kaguya's eye's corners. Yes, I'm sure you'll conveniently say that's not proof. Oh well. It looks like a mark to me. I care little for what you believe it is unless you can support it like I did. You want to say it's an eye, fine, but there's no basis for it, just you attempting to be contrarian with me to get under my skin like you always attempt lols.



It has no Rinnegan, but instead white eyes like Byakugan, Hamura has long, straight white hair like him and unlike Hagoromo. He has no horns and his goatee is shaped differently. Being that he has no horns, I also predicted it may be the hyuuga ancestor, (Hamura's son) or the current leader of the Ootsutsukis on the moon.



The same logic can be applied to he having the mark on his head if you want to be literal. All the same, I'm simply using Hamura and the Hyuuga's characteristics.

What if this spiritual figure was just a representation of both seals working together? Hagoromo + Hamura? Makes way more sense than just being Hamura, since Hamura never had this seal inside the manga.

Also, you're damn wrong about the horns. Hamura had horns as well.

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So, let's stop attempting to disprove argumentation style and stick to the facts, shall we? The figure has characteristics of both brothers, nonetheless.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

What if this spiritual figure was just a representation of both seals working together? Hagoromo + Hamura? Makes way more sense than just being Hamura, since Hamura never had this seal inside the manga.

Also, you're damn wrong about the horns. Hamura had horns as well.

It's called a typo. Read the sentence after that.

So, let's stop attempting to disprove argumentation style and stick to the facts, shall we? The figure has characteristics of both brothers, nonetheless.

I've been sticking with the facts.

The only characteristic he has in common with Hagoromo is the mark on the head, and I used your own logic against you with that one. And no, I don't even believe its a fusion on them because he would still have to have some of Hagoromo's characteristics. He possesses more characteristics of Hamura and a Hyuuga.

 

[Mr Hiru]

It's called a typo. Read the sentence after that.

I'm glad we agree that both had horns.

I've been sticking with the facts.

Some facts, aside of the typo. The figure might be Hagoromo or Hamura, or even their father... nobody knows.

But you couldn't negate that the 'hair' (as a fact) was a weak one.

Yes, the spirit seem to have a Byakugan (I can't differentiate the iris from the eyeball very well, unlike Kaguya in other panels... so even this fact is kind of weak as well), but the shape of forehead (the superciliary arch) of the figure is more like Hagoromo's, rather than Hamura.

The only characteristic he has in common with Hagoromo is the mark on the head, and I used your own logic against you with that one. And no, I don't even believe its a fusion on them because he would still have to have some of Hagoromo's characteristics. He possesses more characteristics of Hamura and a Hyuuga.

Do you think so?

I can clearly see more of the patterns of Hagoromo

- Superciliary arch
- The nose
- The forehead seal

You say that you can see the following features of Hamura

- Byakugan
- Long hair

Things that we have seen in both of them

- Sun and Moon Seal

But... there are elements which we have not seen in neither of them

- The hat
- The absense of head horns
- Kaguya's cloths
- Little beard which shape differs from Hagoromo's beard
- Even though the hair is long, the haircut is clearly different from Hamura's (if you insist in take the hair in consideration, I protest that you overlook this obvious fact) and Hagoromo's.

...so, what's this thing? Can you say that it is really Hamura? I doubt it. Even the Databook reveals that Hamura went to the moon... what would be Hamura doing with Hagoromo in the sealing process? Senseless, he should be dead.

I can't say it is Hagoromo. But it's quite likely to say that it is a representation of him, or at least of the cooperation of the transmigrants.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

The figure might be Hagoromo or Hamura, or even their father... nobody knows.

That's why this is a theory thread.

But you couldn't negate that the 'hair' (as a fact) was a weak one.

You couldn't negate that it was a strong one. All the same, weak or strong, the similarity is there and you are agreeing with it.

Yes, the spirit seem to have a Byakugan (I can't differentiate the iris from the eyeball very well, unlike Kaguya in other panels... so even this fact is kind of weak as well),

Well, I CAN make it out. Thank you for agreeing its a byakugan all the same.

but the shape of forehead (the superciliary arch) of the figure is more like Hagoromo's, rather than Hamura.

Except using your own logic against you once again, he may have aged to look that way.

Do you think so?

I can clearly see more of the patterns of Hagoromo

Well, I don't. To each their own.

- Superciliary arch
- The nose
- The forehead seal

The arc is wider and looks nothing like Hagoromo's. And the entire head is more akin to the shape of Hamura's. Then of course there's the eyes, long straight hair and no beard. Ew ew five to two! Do I win now! Lols.

You say that you can see the following features of Hamura

- Byakugan
- Long hair

Things that we have seen in both of them

- Sun and Moon Seal

But... there are elements which we have not seen in neither of them

- The hat
- The absense of head horns
- Kaguya's cloths
- Little beard which shape differs from Hagoromo's beard
- Even though the hair is long, the haircut is clearly different from Hamura's (if you insist in take the hair in consideration, I protest that you overlook this obvious fact) and Hagoromo's.[/quote]

That isn't a hat. It's a buddhist hair bun with flames protruding from it. I already stated the absence of the horns may indicate its the hyuuga ancestor or leader of the clan on the moon. Stop making me repeat myself. The bun may also be covering them. I actually believe those are just wrinkles now rather than a goatee. It's long and straight. That's far more comparable to Hamura than Hagoromo. And I protest that you stop calling all of your personal interpretations as facts. Lols.

...so, what's this thing? Can you say that it is really Hamura? I doubt it.

I never said it was absolutely Hamura. You're the one obsessing over Hamura. I said the hyuuga ancestor or the current leader of the ootsutsuki caln on the moon may be candidates as well. I don't believe however that it is their father or a fusion of them. It's implied to me they have no father and were sired from Kaguya eating the fruit, paralleling the messiah concept from several religious texts, which Kishimoto often references. And I don't believe it resembles Hagoromo enough to be a fusion of both.

Even the Databook reveals that Hamura went to the moon...

And Hagoromo died and his spirit was unconsciously summoned by Naruto and Sasuke. Your point? Part of my theory was that his spirit may have been there as well or that he used his chakra network.

what would be Hamura doing with Hagoromo in the sealing process?

Because he originally possessed the moon sigil and was half of the sealing.

Senseless, he should be dead.

You're the only senseless one here. You can't even fully read my ops without jumping down my throat first and continue to contradict yourself.

I can't say it is Hagoromo. But it's quite likely to say that it is a representation of him,

In your narcissistic little fantasy world maybe.

or at least of the cooperation of the transmigrants.

It looks nothing like Naruto, Sasuke, Indra or Ashura. Sorry, but your random speculations hold no ground without support.

 

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

The geodude like monster has the neckless of the sages and has 11 dots on his back, and looks like the chakra fruit with arms, I believe that this is the 11 tails! 10 tails + the rabbit. And that monster is hamura.

But then again I still maintain that Indra and ashura are not brothers at all. But that hago and hamura had a son each. And after hamura got sent to the moon and hago looked after them.

 

[davidou]

It's Hagoromo's avatar at the end of Hagoromo's life when he became a sage , it's the Yin Yang avatar.
His avatar have similarities with himself , but it also has differences , it doesn't look like Hagoromo , but someone close to him.

If you look carefully , that avatar is the mix of the Ashura and Indra avatars shawn in that color page :

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It seems like Hagoromo's avatar is a mix of the mostly Yang avatar (Ashura) and the mostly Yin avatar (Indra) , logic , because that is the power he got from having Yin and Yang mastery.
The mostly yin avatar have traits of the Yin/yang avatar and the mostly Yang avatar have traits of the Yin/Yang avatar.



It's also a mix of those statues at the door of the root temple:

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I believe those statues are representing pure Yang and pure Yin , unlike Ashura's and Indra's who , I think , represent a mix of Yin and Yang with a dominant part.


-Are all those statues and avatars representing real beings?
-If so , Hagoromo's avatar isn't Hamura , isn't Hagoromo , isn't Kaguya , who is he?
-Ashura's and Indra's avatars aren't Ashura or Indra , who are they?
-Who are the guys at the door of the root temple?
-Who is the guy at the center of the fire temple?

I hope Kishimoto is planning to clear this.

 

[Grandmastersensei]

It's called a typo. Read the sentence after that.



I've been sticking with the facts.

The only characteristic he has in common with Hagoromo is the mark on the head, and I used your own logic against you with that one. And no, I don't even believe its a fusion on them because he would still have to have some of Hagoromo's characteristics. He possesses more characteristics of Hamura and a Hyuuga.

the sentence after the typo says the same thing.

 

[Mr Hiru]

It's Hagoromo's avatar at the end of Hagoromo's life when he became a sage , it's the Yin Yang avatar.
His avatar have similarities with himself , but it also has differences , it doesn't look like Hagoromo , but someone close to him.

If you look carefully , that avatar is the mix of the Ashura and Indra avatars shawn in that color page :

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It seems like Hagoromo's avatar is a mix of the mostly Yang avatar (Ashura) and the mostly Yin avatar (Indra) , logic , because that is the power he got from having Yin and Yang mastery.
The mostly yin avatar have traits of the Yin/yang avatar and the mostly Yang avatar have traits of the Yin/Yang avatar.



It's also a mix of those statues at the door of the root temple:

You must be registered for see images

I believe those statues are representing pure Yang and pure Yin , unlike Ashura's and Indra's who , I think , represent a mix of Yin and Yang with a dominant part.


-Are all those statues and avatars representing real beings?
-If so , Hagoromo's avatar isn't Hamura , isn't Hagoromo , isn't Kaguya , who is he?
-Ashura's and Indra's avatars aren't Ashura or Indra , who are they?
-Who are the guys at the door of the root temple?
-Who is the guy at the center of the fire temple?

I hope Kishimoto is planning to clear this.

Thanks, at least some sense here. Now I can clearly see that the great spirit is just a combination of both Ashura and Indra spirits!

 

[KCMNaruto]

Hagoromo avatar as Ten tails host, it remained with him as last amount of charka in form of chakra avatar

 

[SkyGodHorus]

It's Hagoromo's avatar at the end of Hagoromo's life when he became a sage , it's the Yin Yang avatar.
His avatar have similarities with himself , but it also has differences , it doesn't look like Hagoromo , but someone close to him.

If you look carefully , that avatar is the mix of the Ashura and Indra avatars shawn in that color page :

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It seems like Hagoromo's avatar is a mix of the mostly Yang avatar (Ashura) and the mostly Yin avatar (Indra) , logic , because that is the power he got from having Yin and Yang mastery.
The mostly yin avatar have traits of the Yin/yang avatar and the mostly Yang avatar have traits of the Yin/Yang avatar.



It's also a mix of those statues at the door of the root temple:

You must be registered for see images

I believe those statues are representing pure Yang and pure Yin , unlike Ashura's and Indra's who , I think , represent a mix of Yin and Yang with a dominant part.


-Are all those statues and avatars representing real beings?
-If so , Hagoromo's avatar isn't Hamura , isn't Hagoromo , isn't Kaguya , who is he?
-Ashura's and Indra's avatars aren't Ashura or Indra , who are they?
-Who are the guys at the door of the root temple?
-Who is the guy at the center of the fire temple?

I hope Kishimoto is planning to clear this.

Except it looks nothing like the Asura statue or avatar...

the sentence after the typo says the same thing.

No, it does not.