The Ending No One is Talking About: Why Madara, Sasuke and Obito got it right

[Tebows Youth Group]

note: The section labeled "How Does it End?" summarizes the thread. If you are having trouble understanding it refer back to the other sections. Thanks for reading!

Most of us agree, this series is coming to a close soon. I think it was even mentioned Summer 2014 but don't quote me on that. With few mysteries left (other than the Sage and his backstory), many of us have turned our attention towards the ending and how Naruto's story should play out. I have read some very interesting, unique ideas, but if I had to venture a guess, I would say the majority believe that Naruto defeats Obito, Madara, the God Tree, and then finally Sasuke or at least is able to convince Sasuke to cease fire and return to the village (although I question whether the citizens of Konoha would be comfortable with this). After he overcomes his foes he will be established as the strongest Ninja to ever live and proceed to live out his dream as Hokage. This, of course, could be how it happens, who am I to say otherwise, but I would like to point out how given the way the story has be written, this is ending is nearly impossible.​

As I stated in the title, Obito, Madara and Sasuke are "right" with many of their ideals. Obviously, the execution of their beliefs is questionable, but they more than others, have been able to pin-point the problems.



If there is one picture that summarize all of the misfortunes in the Naruverse it is this one...

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Don't see the problem yet? Well do not worry, I am going to explain.

I'll start with Madara.​

Madara

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There are two points he made that are spot on.​

First, is this one.

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"You are mistaking the cause for the end."


There have been several different translations for what he said here, but to summarize, he was saying that Hashirama was mistaking the cause for all of the problems, the village, for the end or solution. The villages are what is causing the problems, it is not the solution, and he is right, but more on that later.



The second point he made is here.

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"After getting their hands on the fruit, people were cursed and destined to hate each other even more"


This was Madara explaining humanity's theft of chakra from the God Tree. Again, he was right in his thinking.


So the two main points here are...

1. Villages are the problem not the solution
3. People should not have chakra. It is stolen from the God Tree.

Now, on to Obito​

Obito

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Naturally, Obito's views are very similar to Madara, but Obito brings up a few new ideas.​

First, there is this.

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Obito reiterating that the village system is the problem.




Then, Obito brings up a very interesting point in a recent chapter, and it is something I think we were all kind of wondering to ourselves.

Obito's point

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This was Obito speaking to Naruto and basically the point he was trying to make was, "what happens after this?" What's to stop things going back the way they were? And he's right, if Naruto wins and goes on to become Hokage, then what's to stop villages from betraying each other again? Sure, for some time after, people will be in what I will refer to as the "honeymoon" stage. They will have just won a war fighting together, everyone will be so nice and loving to each other, much like newly weds who are on their honeymoon. Everything seems like its going to last forever when you're in a condo in Panama, but that feeling wares off. Who's to stay what will happen 10 years after the war? 20? 50? How about when Naruto dies? How long will his legend be able to maintain peace? Naruto winning and returning to the status quo is not a permanent solution. However, there is a permanent solution, and I believe there is one person out there who sees it.

Sasuke.

Sasuke's Views​

Sasuke

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Note: Given the nature of this website, I feel like I need to point out that Sasuke is not my "favorite" character. I am not comparing him to anyone (Naruto). I am simply stating what I have interpreted from the story. I really have no "favorite" characters, just favorite ideas.

There have been key points in this manga where Sasuke has shown a true understanding for what is "underneath" everything that is going on. Naruto may have an unwavering resolve, but it is obvious he doesn't quite grasp the nature of the world around him. (And yes I realized I just kind of compared them)

I will start with this point here.

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"Burn it down."

A quote that you see on sigs across this site, but I feel like many missed the point Sasuke was trying to make. It was the same as Madara, only reversed.

Madara, Sasuke, and I'm sure Obito all realized that both the God Tree and people wielding chakra cannot exist in the same world. The difference is Madara wants to return chakra to the Tree, Sasuke seemingly wants to get rid of the source, allowing people to keep the power that they stole.

But hold on. Does he really?

This is not a fact, merely an observation, but note Sasuke's interest in Onmyoudon when it is introduced. It is on the top of the second page.

Take a look at these two pages.

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Tobirama explains Onmyoudon and how it can, "turn all Jutsu to nothing." Now Kishimoto may just be showing Sasuke is there and listening by drawing him there, but I think it was more a point of Sasuke taking a particular interest into Onmyoudon and I'll explain why.

The last point Sasuke makes is the same as Obito and Madara. Basically the Kage, village system, etc., are the reasons for the problems.

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So How Does it End?​

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Using the points Madara, Sasuke and Obito have been making we can arrive at the source of all problems.

1. People stole chakra from the God Tree

2. The Village system is corrupt and in fact perpetuates hatred.



So I will refer you back to the photo I showed earlier.

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Now you see the problem right? This is one big chunk of land (excluding the islands) and yet there are all these borders. There is not large bodies of water separating the Fire and Lightning country. No mentioned mountain ranges separating Earth and Wind. The only borders on this map are the ones people created to separate themselves from each other. This is why there are problems. This is why Madara was correct when saying of the village, "you are mistaking the cause for the end." He was right, the villages only endorse separation.

So for everyone saying, "Naruto will end up being Hokage." You see why this is a fallacy right?

In order for permanent, everlasting peace, there can be no Hokage, Raikage, Kazekage, etc. because that only shows separation. Think of the headbands the Alliance are wearing now.

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Those aren't temporary; they are a direct reflection of how the world is going to look after the war. Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying the world will turn to anarchy. There will still be leaders (which Naruto very well may be), governing bodies, etc. But Naruto will never be Hokage simply because the world will not need a Hokage. This story will end...with no borders.

And if I may

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I believe this is kind of the overall "morale of the story" if I can say that. The author is trying to show how detrimental borders can be, they are truly dangerous. Think of the our own world. The middle east, the border between Mexico and America, North and South Korea, etc. People have separated themselves with imaginary lines and stood behind the idea of nationalism to encourage these separations. But that in itself is the problem. Imagine two men standing at the border of Pakistan and India. They wouldn't be 10 feet from each other yet they could hardly stand to look at one another simply because of where they were raised. It is a sad realization and it seems like a point the author has been trying to speak to. Sorry for the rant, back to the thread!

Now there is another point, the God Tree and chakra. How will this be settled? Well, its already been foreshadowed. Like I mentioned earlier, the world cannot exist with both the God Tree and people having chakra. They are simply two things that can't be around at the same time. And for those saying, "Well, people have had chakra all this time, why can't it just be like it was?"

Well it can't and I'll tell you why sir or mam. The reason is here.

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"..and one day, you all become one."

The Sage has already explained why people cannot keep the power they stole, because the tree will return in its full form (and yes that includes Kyuubi and Hachibi). And what, is the tree going to sit idly by while people roam around with it's chakra? Of course not. You may be saying, "if the Tree sucks the chakra out of everyone they will die!?!" Yes, you are correct and that is where Onmyoudon, and Sasuke, come in to play. I believe Sasuke has realized that Jutsu has become the crux that is tearing the world apart and through Onmyoudon, he wants to get rid of it. The only thing left for Sasuke would be the tree, the source of all chakra. For if he got rid of chakra, which he plans to do, some one could simply take it back from the tree like they did in the first place. If you look at it from this point of view, "Burn it down." starts to make a lot more sense. However, this is where Sasuke got it wrong.

Erasing the borders will fix the problems people have with each other (People fighting people). Returning chakra to its rightful owner will fix the problems humanity has with Nature (people fighting and enslaving Bijuu). In order for true peace and balance to be realized, the tree must be restored. How could true peace be realistic if the entity that human's cheated was left hanging, it wouldn't be peace at all, there would still be resentment, the bridge between Man and Nature (the God Tree) has to be restored.

So if you're understanding me correctly the point I am trying to make is this. Naruto, the series, will end with one borderless land, no Kage, no villages as we see them, and people will not have the ability to use Ninjutsu (Natural chakra is another story). It is the only way ALL of the problems that Madara, Sasuke and Obito have highlighted can be solved.


Now...whether Naruto is alive at the end is a whole nother discussion. But for now, I leave it at this.

Disclaimer: the point of Sasuke taking an interest in Onmyoudon was not an idea that I originally had, but one that I learned from others. Kudos to the people who pointed this out.

 

[OWanime]

this is great xd I love this thread because it shows that good in the elder son's side because remember they are both searching for PEACE but one thru Power and the other Love. Love seemingly failed so the Uchiha will use power to achieve this instead. Great Thread XD

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Thank You! I appreciate that you read through it. And yes, it certainly does parallel nicely from the two sons all the way to Naruto and Sasuke (all though some would tell you Naruto does not equal the younger son). But yea many people are wondering how Sasuke and Naruto are still going to have the "promised fight" after the war and this difference in ideals could certainly lead to it.


Again, thanks for reading.

 

[Xlad]

Really interesting point relating to the borders. Really great post.

 

[2justin9]

i hope it dont end that way

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Really interesting point relating to the borders. Really great post.

Thank You! The Alliance banding together seems to be the overall theme of this war and I think its the beginning of the borders starting to be erased.

i hope it dont end that way

lol

Why is that now?

 

[Oksus]

You should post a summary for those of us that don't feel like reading the whole thing XD

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

You should post a summary for those of us that don't feel like reading the whole thing XD

The last section is kind of a summary, so I gave a heads up to anyone beginning to read it.

 

[Erikhog]

awesome menn read it all with my stoned mind

 

[Erikhog]

i didnt see before that all the still living uchiha's sees the world the same, all fake! Its because of those eyes brrr..

but i do not see naruto let any of the bijuu slash juubi die, and i hope they will be at the end like with lord of the rings and naruto at the front and all the bijuus behind the whole shinobi aliance crowd lmfaooo

 

[HiddenSound]

That was very entertaining and very interesting. That would be a very satisfying ending, great thread!

 

[ANiMUS]

People still fought before chakra. Taking away chakra is about as productive as taking away guns. People will just find new ways to kill each other. Erasing borders might help, but people still segregate themselves whether by streets, cities, states, or neighborhoods. People are in general just inherently evil they either strive to dominate one another and arm themselves from what others might do. The world is just messed up so I doubt to find any real world answers in a manga.

 

[2nd hokage]

I think its a good theory don't think the one world order is not a good answer as all that will do is create an economical gap. Which will lead to rebellion and a power gap. As for no chakra so no ninjutsu but you could use natural energy and still do ninjutsu with a different chakra type come on even you have to admit that that is kind of dumb why take away my orange then hand me a tangerine. I see how you drew your conclustion and it is not a bad one as I can see it but I think the one flaw is naruto. Naruto and the younger son belive that love will win and they are right sasuke wants to take away peoples ability to do this if that happens they find another way to do it. Naruto wants them to understand and love each other if you do that then people will get along because they want to not because they are told to.

 

[AGoodBoy]

So basically, Naruto is trying to unite the seperated Countries into the people's republic of China?

Kishi's trying to make china. NV is just a modified map of china and taiwan

 

[Sefirosu Masamune]

best thread today

 

[Shinobi2012]

Sasuke never specified what his ideals were so you saying he is right in his ideals is just plain absurd.

And until recentlly sasuke was completely consumed by his hatred making him the furthest from a real solution proposed to the ninja world.

All he stated is that he is going to change things and since he is willing to kill the tailed beast and tell everyone he cares less of what they think of him means he is fine by obtaining "peace" through power another dead give away that he has no clue what the real solution is.


You can't obtain peace through power and you can't become hokage without being acknowledged.

Sasuke is failing on both fronts and will be set on the right path when naruto does it right.


And your whole sasuke takes an interest in onmyoudon falls completely flat sasuke didn't even say anything nor was there any action characters to express reactions from anyone standing there while tobirama explained what is was.

theories need to come from hints,facts and stuff we can observe not out of thin air.

 

[htmwall]

chakra is no longer something that belongs to the god tree,it was taught to the people how to create it by mixing their spiritual and physical energies by Rikudo Sennin.the teaching that was called ninshu then became ninjutsu later,as stated by jiraya.
only the bijuu's chakra belong to it,the people's chakras generates from within their own bodies.so it's impossible to get rid of it unless the teaching of chakra will be banned.(let me see them try that)

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

I think its a good theory don't think the one world order is not a good answer as all that will do is create an economical gap. Which will lead to rebellion and a power gap. As for no chakra so no ninjutsu but you could use natural energy and still do ninjutsu with a different chakra type come on even you have to admit that that is kind of dumb why take away my orange then hand me a tangerine. I see how you drew your conclustion and it is not a bad one as I can see it but I think the one flaw is naruto. Naruto and the younger son belive that love will win and they are right sasuke wants to take away peoples ability to do this if that happens they find another way to do it. Naruto wants them to understand and love each other if you do that then people will get along because they want to not because they are told to.

People still fought before chakra. Taking away chakra is about as productive as taking away guns. People will just find new ways to kill each other. Erasing borders might help, but people still segregate themselves whether by streets, cities, states, or neighborhoods. People are in general just inherently evil they either strive to dominate one another and arm themselves from what others might do. The world is just messed up so I doubt to find any real world answers in a manga

Hey thanks for reading and commenting.

To the bold and other parts of your comment. If I'm understanding your point correctly, it seems like you are confusing Sasuke's reasons for people not having chakra, with the actual reason people shouldn't have chakra. I'm not saying chakra should be taken away from people because they use it to hurt each other, I am saying chakra should be taken away from people because it was stolen in the first place. "Naruto wants them to understand and love each other." Yes, but what I am saying is that its not just about the people anymore, they are things to think about, like the Bijuu, the God Tree (who isn't evil I may add). So, he has to find a way to make everyone happy. Namely, returning chakra to its rightful owner.

 

[Super7]

Naruto will be the head of a new central government. The world can demolish the borders between countries to integrate everyone into a whole, unified world but they will still need some sort of chain of command to run this.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Read the whole thing.

IMPRESSIVE! Reps once I get done posting.

I disagree with ONE tiny thing here though.

Well it can't and I'll tell you why sir or mam. The reason is here.

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"..and one day, you all become one."

The Sage has already explained why people cannot keep the power they stole, because the tree will return in its full form (and yes that includes Kyuubi and Hachibi). And what, is the tree going to sit idly by while people roam around with it's chakra? Of course not. You may be saying, "if the Tree sucks the chakra out of everyone they will die!?!" Yes, you are correct and that is where Onmyoudon, and Sasuke, come in to play. I believe Sasuke has realized that Jutsu has become the crux that is tearing the world apart and through Onmyoudon, he wants to get rid of it. The only thing left for Sasuke would be the tree, the source of all chakra. For if he got rid of chakra, which he plans to do, some one could simply take it back from the tree like they did in the first place. If you look at it from this point of view, "Burn it down." starts to make a lot more sense. However, this is where Sasuke got it wrong.

The neglect of the page after that somewhat bothered me.

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"In different names, and in different forms than you exist now".

Here, there is a heavy insinuation that there will be a physical nature change of the tailed-beasts which may allow for some sort of loophole to the "Man vs. Nature" being at war complex.

Also, the flower tree has YET to bloom, but has already started the process of sucking up chakra. I could pull various pages up, but considering the chapters are rather fresh, it still should be in everybody's head. Madara stated here that the Hachibi and the Kyuubi not being absorbed was key to the 15 minutes that the Shinobi currently have.

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It doesn't actually say that it is necessary for the chakra of the Shinobi (that also bear chakra from the tree) is necessary.

Obito says that taking some chakra from the Shinobi will "help" it bloom quicker.

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But Madara states it is not actually necessary, and the flower will bloom regardless.

Going back to what the Sage said, the Man vs. Nature thing could very well be moot meaning that it may be wholly possible for the Shinobi to keep their chakra along with some incarnation of the God Tree being there.

The hints at a transformation may very well be what the Sage was talking about. There may still be some way for Shinobi to co-exist with the Shinju/Juubi/Bijuu in general.

And you are right in the aspect that everybody will be "lovey-dovey" at the beginning of the end of the war, but I feel that the concept this manga is going to stem into will be the Buddhism ideals that you cannot over-indulge on anything that can make you act irrationally, in this case: Hatred and anger.

If this is where it is going, then it may very well be possible that there may be some sort of teachings from Naruto on how to "let go" of the revenge cycle when new problems adorn which would be a significant cut among the crime rates of a possible anarchy of all the villages.