I think this is how it would have played out. Please keep in mind that this is how I think the plot events should have transpired. This in no way means it will actually happen in the story as it's up to Kishi.
If according to religion inspirations we assume the Naga and Garuda plot line, then it would mean that :-
Orochimaru, Hagoromo and Hamura are brothers. (Garuda and Naga were brothers)
After Kaguya's incident with the Fruit, Orochimaru bit his mother and spread his venom to her.
The Venom caused Kaguya to go insane and attack Hagoromo and Hamura.
During the Sealing Process, Hagoromo and Hamura are eaten up by the Juubi (Shinju + Kaguya).
Hagoromo becomes the Juubi's Jinchuriki (As I said above).
The Venom spreads from Kaguya and completely absorbs Hamura (Similar to how Black Zetsu covered Madara to transform him into Kaguya).
The Venom causes Hamura to lose his memories (That's why he refers to himself in third person), but the Will of Kaguya remains.
Further Plot Points :-
Orochimaru breaks out of Infinite Tskyumoni (Evidence has been posted by Vega).
He breaks the Gedo Mazou core to release Black Zetsu.
After that he absorbs all the Venom from Black Zetsu and Lo and Behold, Hamura is back.
I think this is how it would have played out. Please keep in mind that this is how I think the plot events should have transpired. This in no way means it will actually happen in the story as it's up to Kishi.
If according to religion inspirations we assume the Naga and Garuda plot line, then it would mean that :-
Orochimaru, Hagoromo and Hamura are brothers. (Garuda and Naga were brothers)
After Kaguya's incident with the Fruit, Orochimaru bit his mother and spread his venom to her.
The Venom caused Kaguya to go insane and attack Hagoromo and Hamura.
During the Sealing Process, Hagoromo and Hamura are eaten up by the Juubi (Shinju + Kaguya).
Hagoromo becomes the Juubi's Jinchuriki (As I said above).
The Venom spreads from Kaguya and completely absorbs Hamura (Similar to how Black Zetsu covered Madara to transform him into Kaguya).
The Venom causes Hamura to lose his memories (That's why he refers to himself in third person), but the Will of Kaguya remains.
Further Plot Points :-
Orochimaru breaks out of Infinite Tskyumoni (Evidence has been posted by Vega).
He breaks the Gedo Mazou core to release Black Zetsu.
After that he absorbs all the Venom from Black Zetsu and Lo and Behold, Hamura is back.
That was nicely done dragnor, but I don't see orochimaru in any part of this if we're talking about the beginning tale of Kaguya era because obviously he was never born and it was never addressed that Orochimaru have a naga clan, but yes I believe Orochimaru and BZ have been conspired throughout the whole series.
Garuda and Aruna were half brothers to the Nagas (they are usually considered a race of Snakes/Dragons rather than an individual). If Orochimaru lives up to the titles associated with Shesha then Orochimaru could just be the first of many Snakes. Shesha is known as Adishesha or First Shesha which is the title of a Prince (Prince means first) and not of a King. Essentially Shesha was first among many Naga, the reason why the Naga were defeated is that their power was diluted among their number whereas Vinata chose to dedicate all her love to just two children (at least that’s the short version of the associated fable).
I suppose it’s possible that Hamura was lobotomized and that he considered himself reborn after the Juubi had been sealed. I have some major reservations about this idea though.
Principal among them is the way Naruto dealt with BZ. If BZ were a mind wiped Hamura then I would expect Naruto to sense his spirit and then to aid it escape from the venom.
Instead Naruto throws BZ into the heart of CT. He shows no regard towards BZ whatsoever. This would be extremely out of character for Naruto. Naruto has reasoned with every Human villain and attempted to understand their feelings and the reasons for their choices. Not so with BZ. He just exterminates him. The only reason for such callous behaviour in my eyes is that Naruto can sense that BZ isn’t human and so does not show the same respect that he has shown towards every other opponent.
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I still broadly stand by an earlier theory I wrote on BZ. He might be a product of the Demon but I don’t think he’s the demon of the tale. Plus I think he used a staff as a medium rather than Hamura himself:
Orochimaru could be Hamura. If the story follows the myths then they would be separate characters but Kishi is never entirely bound by the stories he borrows from. I can point to inspirations and judge motivations based on those origin stories but it’s always problematic saying anything is for certain in how Kishi will take the story forward.
It's impossible to back up any assertions on these kinds of questions yet. This is more speculation than theory but I think it's within the realms of the possible… at least I can't think of a reason why not.
I suppose it’s possible that Hamura was lobotomized and that he considered himself reborn after the Juubi had been sealed. I have some major reservations about this idea though.
Principal among them is the way Naruto dealt with BZ. If BZ were a mind wiped Hamura then I would expect Naruto to sense his spirit and then to aid it escape from the venom.
Instead Naruto throws BZ into the heart of CT. He shows no regard towards BZ whatsoever. This would be extremely out of character for Naruto. Naruto has reasoned with every Human villain and attempted to understand their feelings and the reasons for their choices. Not so with BZ. He just exterminates him. The only reason for such callous behaviour in my eyes is that Naruto can sense that BZ isn’t human and so does not show the same respect that he has shown towards every other opponent.
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I still broadly stand by an earlier theory I wrote on BZ. He might be a product of the Demon but I don’t think he’s the demon of the tale. Plus I think he used a staff as a medium rather than Hamura himself:
Naruto never exterminated BZ. He simply threw him in the Sealing process to seal him. I think he did so because he knew or realized the biggest loophole of the Yin/Yang sealing of Kaguya. The loophole being BZ himself.
The sealing process only seals the Juubi (Shinju + Kaguya); but it cannot directly seal BZ itself. The logical problem that arises here is that no matter how many times Kaguya is sealed, BZ will keep on reviving her continuously because there is nothing to seal BZ.
By indirectly sealing BZ, it means that Kaguya would never be revived again by BZ. This seems logical when BZ spills the beans on his true identity to Ashura and Indra's reincarnations, Naruto and Sasuke. (I mean really ? Lol How can you tell your major enemies your true identity ?)
Also, it seems that Naruto himself is not Perfect when it comes to feelings. For example, he directly attacks Kisame just because of his evil chakra. It's only after Kisame's sacrifice, does he realize Kisame's feelings. Just saying, That Naruto can never be perfect. Lol
As to why he was not able to sense Hamura, Well Kaguya's will (or was it Orochimaru's Venom ?) would have completely taken over Hamura himself. Something like The Evil disguising the Good completely ? Something along those lines. Lol
Orochimaru could be Hamura. If the story follows the myths then they would be separate characters but Kishi is never entirely bound by the stories he borrows from. I can point to inspirations and judge motivations based on those origin stories but it’s always problematic saying anything is for certain in how Kishi will take the story forward.
It's impossible to back up any assertions on these kinds of questions yet. This is more speculation than theory but I think it's within the realms of the possible… at least I can't think of a reason why not.
I just don't like the idea of Orochimaru being Hamura. Reason being that it cheapens both characters involved. Granted, this has been done before, I mean the Juubi being both Shinju and Kaguya, But I think that If Orochimaru is final villain material, then I would like Orochimaru to be a completely unique character.
That's just my opinion though. Lol
What you said does makes sense though, The Nagas always wanted to become human and achieve enlightenment. Hamura was a human. So, perhaps Orochimaru the Snake wants it's true body i.e; Hamura back and achieve enlightenment ?
Now, while on first glance, Black Zetsu looks like any other Zetsu and keeps you limited to Naruto, once we see his other abilities, He really starts ringing a bell.
Because he is extremely similar to a Character from a Comic Series.
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Called the"Venom". I hope it's not just me who sees the connection with the name.
From the awesome series Spiderman. I still love it. :bouncy:
While you may wonder How the above picture showing "Venom" is similar to Black Zetsu, that is Not Venom's true form.
The true form of Venom is :-
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This is the point when the similarities between "Venom" and "Black Zetsu" start standing out.
Both are malleable and gooey life forms.
Black Zetsu.
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Venom.
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Both can completely take over people and control them, by covering them with their gooey mass.
Black Zetsu taking control over Obito.
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Then taking control over Madara.
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Notice how in the subsequent panels, Black Zetsu completely covers Madara.
Venom Taking control of Spiderman.
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Venom Taking control of Eddie.
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Both Black Zetsu and the Venom when bonded with a human always corrupt that person. In other words both of them are symbols of "Hatred" and "Corruption".
Some extra Information :-
Venom, or the Venom Symbiote, is a fictional character appearing in books published by Marvel Comics, usually those featuring Spider-Man. The character is a Symbiote, a sentient alien, with a gooey, almost liquid-like form that requires a host, usually human, to bond with for its survival, as with real world symbiotes, and to whom it endows enhanced powers. When the Venom Symbiote bonds with a human, that new dual-life form refers to itself as Venom.
The Venom is capable of shapeshifting abilities, including the ability to form spikes or expand its size, as well as mimic the appearance of other humanoids after it has obtained a host. The organism can additionally use its shape-shifting abilities to conceal itself by altering its coloration or by becoming completely invisible. It also contains a small "dimensional aperture," allowing its hosts to carry items without adding mass to the costume. The Symbiote also exhibits telepathic abilities, primarily when it needs to communicate with its host.
Above Bold : These are all traits showcased by Black Zetsu.
The similarities makes you wonder if Kishi took inspiration from Spiderman in the creation of Black Zetsu's character, or if it's just a co-incidence. Lol
Black Zetsu still not sealed ?
Now, while Black Zetsu may have been sealed, it seems we were all tricked by Kishi. At least, in a way. Lol
Follow me carefully.
Black Zetsu's head communicating with Madara. (Yes, I stress on Black Zetsu's head)
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Then Chojoro cuts Black Zetsu in half and creates two halves, i.e; Black Zetsu Head Half and Black Zetsu Leg Half.
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But Black Zetsu seeps out of the Leg Half.
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The Leg Half Black Zetsu betrays Madara, Revives Kaguya, Becomes Kaguya's will and gets sealed.
But, The Head half Black Zetsu remains.
Interestingly, it had a physic link with Madara.
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Which makes you wonder if Madara was actually telling the truth.
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The Head Black Zetsu being Madara's will.
While, the Leg Black Zetsu being Kaguya's will.
I think this is the beginning of a new Tobidara epidemic. Lol
This is a tricky one to answer but I'll give it a go. I've split up the analysis of the symbolism from a general overview on Naruto's development within the Manga. A lot of this I've picked up from other theories and a lot of it's my own. Hopefully it all fits together and makes sense.
The Uzumaki Outer Path
I wanted to put something together on Naruto’s heritage, the symbolism around it and it’s potential development in a New Era Project. For this first part I'll go over his family history and it's relevance to the Demon (if such a a character exists). I'll start with Naruto's Heritage. For most of the Manga Naruto’s background was a keenly guarded secret. As readers we only found out about Naruto's background as we found out about his parents. Naruto's family history was kept secret because Minato worried that if enemies knew that Naruto was his son then he would become a target:
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But being the fourth Hokage’s son was only half the picture. While Minato was a once in a generation ninja whose child would become a person of interest for any enemy of the Leaf:
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… Naruto’s maternal heritage made him just as much of a target. His mother Kushina was kidnapped almost as soon as she arrived in the leaf because of her “special chakra”:
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Which leads to the question, what is so special about Uzumaki chakra? We don’t know for certain the answer to this question yet. Although he hasn’t displayed it yet, Naruto certainly seems to have inherited it, whatever it is:
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This leads me to speculate on the nature of the Uzumaki clan. They are said to be distantly related to the Senju:
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This relationship could explain why Naruto has become the host to Asura’s Transmigrant:
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The Uzumaki certainly seem to have some inheritance from Hagoromo Ootsutsuki whether you consider their red hair (which originally belonged to Hagoromo) or their unusual lifeforce and strong chakras which was passed on down Asura’s line…
Hagoromo’s Red Hair:
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Asura’s Chakra and Life force:
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The Uzumaki’s Red Hair, Chakra and Life force:
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This should all be old news for anyone keeping track. However there is a very unusual technique that we are yet to see Naruto use on his own and which has some very unusual properties. Kushina and Karin have both displayed an incredible technique that appears to have links to the Sage…
Kushina used the technique to control the nine tails:
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While Karin uses the technique to smash Spiral Yamato’s Mokuton Buddha:
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From these two uses alone we can put this technique in the very top bracket of both defensive and offensive techniques. What is perhaps more interesting is that this technique also belongs to the Gedo Mazo:
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Tobi is also able to use the technique but this may have simply been an extension of his mastery over the Demonic Statue or his possession of the Rinnegan. I think that the Gedo Mazo is Hagoromo’s body for reasons outlined above and else where (they have the same beard and the number of eye sockets corresponds to the number of bijuu released from Hagoromo’s body etc.etc...). These chakra chains are described by Son Goku as a technique belonging to the Outer Path:
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The Outer Path is the Gedo. Normally this is translated as Demonic or Heretical but the word has more than one meaning and is usually translated differently depending on the context although in Japanese there is only one word. This is also described as the Seventh Path of Pain and is what Nagato is said to use in order to revive those he killed in his invasion of Konoha:
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Naruto appears to have had these powers unlocked by the sage since it is what Naruto uses to revive Guy after he uses the otherwise fatal (to the user if not Juubi Jinc Madara) 8th Gate:
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So what are these Gedo Powers. In the wrong hands they can be turned into Serpents as seen by Nagato’s first use of them and the distinctive heads on the chaines when Madara uses them. Here we See Nagato’s hatred bursting forth into the Gedo Mazo and activating the death snakes that wipe out Hanzo’s army:
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In the right hands they can channel strong feelings (like protecting her baby in Kushina or protecting her crush in Karin) and overcome any foe. When Naruto is almost taken over by the malice of the Nine Tails it is his mother’s chakra chains that drive the Demon away:
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These chains appear to be the reason why Hashirama Senju asked for an Uzumaki to act as a container for the Kyuubi. Hashirama’s Mokuton could capture the beast easily enough:
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But his mokuton could not hold the beast forever. Envoys were therefore sent to the Land of Whirlpools in order to take advantage of the Uzumaki’s unique talents. Kushina, Naruto’s mother, was the second offering made to host the Demon Fox:
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Natural talent and Ninjutsu techniques were not enough to seal the Bijuu as Kumogakure found out for itself. Despite the proudest heritage, Raikage's cousin Fukai could not hold Gyuuki (although in the Anime Orochimaru was shown to have something to do with his death):
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What really stood out about the Uzumaki was their understanding of the need to channel their feelings:
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Naruto is in the midst of a battle where he must succeed in reforging his bond with Sasuke if he hopes to survive. It'll be interesting to see whether he is forced to resort to the Outer Path in order to drag Sasuke back or free him of whatever it is that is trying to corrupt him.
Uzumaki Symbolism
It’s tricky to get to grips with all the symbolism in Naruto. Kishi tends to borrow symbols that are used a lot in the real world. Lately we have seen the symbolic meaning of clans become very important. The Uchiha symbol of the fan was more or less confirmed to be a legacy from the Sage of Six Paths and represents the Crescent Moon that was the basis of the Seal used to trap Kaguya:
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Naruto has lots of different symbols representing his character. As the host of Asura he inherited a very distinctive symbol called a circumpunct (filled circle within a larger circle). This symbol can be seen on Asura’s Chakra Cloak:
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Hashirama’s Sage Mode Transformation:
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Naruto’s Kyuubi Chakra Cloak:
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… and interestingly forms Sakura’s Clan Symbol (the Haruno Clan):
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This symbol could be interpreted in two ways. It could either be said to represent a Solar Eclipse and the ring of light that surrounds the moon called the Antumbra:
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Alternatively the Circumpunct can be interpreted as symbolizing the Sun. The earliest known Circumpunct is symbol for the Egyptian Sun God Ra known as the Eye of Ra:
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Naruto and Asura’s flame cloaks could refer to either the flames that are visible around an eclipse or could simply refer to their being the equivalents of Sun Gods. Sakura’s Symbol is effectively the partner to Sasuke’s (I figure that the Haruno Clan are Senju related like the Uzumaki, indeed both Sakura and her Father have red hair).
Naruto's main symbol is the Uzumaki Clan symbol of the Spiral. The Spiral could symbolize many things about Naruto. The Uzumaki used to live in the Land of Whirlpools before they were destroyed. The Spiral could refer to a Whirlpool:
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Alternatively the Spiral could represent the clan’s most powerful sealing techniques, which leave a visible spiral design on the container:
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As regards Naruto, the Spiral is again most likely to represent the Sun (tying in to his Chakra Flame Cloak). The Spiral is another ancient sybol for the Sun. Here is an ancient Chinese tile with the design showing the Sun being pulled across the Heavens. Incidentally, the Charioteer of the Sun in Hinduism and Buddhism is Aruna (Garuda’s brother - see the earlier sections):
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If Naruto does represent the Sun then it would complete the representation of the cycle on Hagoromo’s wall. Some earlier threads pointed out that Hagoromo’s symbol of the Rinnegan (concentric circles) is actually symbolic of the Lunar Cycle:
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Hagoromo’s Wall
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One final intriguing hidden meaning is a reference to the stories about Shesha. Shesha is the Great White Snake, that I think is represented by Orochimaru:
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When Shesha coils himself up it is said to represent the End of the Universe. This is represented as such:
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When Shesha uncoils himself it is said to be the beginning of a New Era and this is represented like so:
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This could even tie in with the storyline. As the child of Destiny, Naruto is supposed to bring about either destruction or revolution. In the end even the Dead Demon Seal cannot hold the Demon forever:
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…as Orochimaru knows all too well
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I wonder whether a new run of the manga will be represented by a new symbol to that of the Shippuden Era. Naruto’s favourite T-Shirt seems to show the Snake Uncoiling… the New Era Opening Project, so to speak:
Naruto
Although considering how your theory is at the limit of being a fan-fiction due to the number of remaining chapters and the way how these events are culminating towards a conclusion, it is highly plausible. In terms of structure, it is perfect though as it makes you want to believe in the possibility of this theory to be realised in the manga/anime.
Such theories imply how the underlying material has so much potential for Kishi to create a third part.
Your talking of "Sacrifices" can be incorporated in the Story in the Following Manner.
The Garuda's Sacrifice.
Actually I think Hamura sacrificed himself to stop Hagoromo from being consumed :
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Which caused him to become Black Zetsu :
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The Sacrifice here leads to the Birth of the Garuda. The Garuda and Phoenix are closely related. A New Phoenix is only born when the Old Phoenix sacrifices himself by bursting into Flames and this lays the foundation to the birth of a new Phoenix, i.e; The Garuda.
By, this thread :
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(Skip to the Garuda and The Transmigration parts), I assumed that there were Four Garudas :-
1) Hagoromo
2) Ashura
3) Itachi
4) Naruto
Interestingly, in order for the Garuda to be born within them, a Loved one of theirs had to sacrifice themselves to cause the awakening :-
1) Hamura sacrifices himself to save Hagoromo from being consumed by Kaguya's will/Orochimaru's venom.
2) Someone (I think it's Indra) sacrificed himself/herself for Ashura.
3) Shushui sacrificed himself to Give Itachi a new pathway.
4) Neji sacrificed himself to Save Naruto's life.
The person sacrificing himself is shown like a bird ablaze in flames spreading it's wings. Here, it's Neji.
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The Posture taken by the Garuda's sacrifices is completely similar to the Orochimaru's Death Glare Genjutsu Posture (See Rabbit Teth's Posts above).
Compare the Garuda's posture :-
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To the Naga's Posture :-
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It seems the Garuda and the Naga have a very close Connection. Is it because they are Brothers ? Or is it Destiny ?
Ah …. no. I’m just getting some old theories out of my system before the manga goes on hiatus. I’ve been dredging up old theories I’ve been writing for years. Most of them still stand up pretty well or at least I haven’t seen too many criticisms that can’t be countered in some way. I wrote the first version of this new installment back when *********** had a forum … you should have seen the abuse I got for my Tobi is Obito Thread. Kukuku …
But seriously I'd love it if Kishi read these threads.
Probably not before November 10 but the Last or a Part 3 could allow Kishi the space to develop what I always thought were the unexplained mysteries. Anyway this one is on the Invasion of Konoha and the Demon. I still have a couple more Ideas I can develop on the theme and I still welcome any other comments or ideas on the same (hopefully I'll be able to address all the remaining questions - @Dragonor I'll get there eventually). Glad to hear you're enjoying it though. For now sit back and enjoy...
A Place in the Sun
Sasuke is the first part of Orochimaru’s plan. Oro has made no secret of his ambition to take the young Uchiha. What is not so clear is what the next stage of his plan after this is:
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I think that Orochimaru has been running several operations simultaneously using his array of agents and informants. Not all who serve Orochimaru even appreciate that they are helping the Snake advance his ambitions. Even Kabuto does not know the full extent of Orochimaru’s design.
There is one particular question that has been raised recently that has gone unanswered and that is why Orochimaru invaded the Leaf. Sasuke sensed something did not quite fit in Orochimaru’s stated goals – we see an awkward moment between the pair on their way to the Uzumaki shrine where Sasuke confronts Oro about his true intentions:
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What is the real reason?
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Invasion of Konoha
I think that the answer lies with the Hyuuga. During the invasion, Orochimaru’s right hand man Kabuto is sent on a special mission while the Leaf is distracted by the Chuunin Exams Final Rounds:
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Kabuto says he has a tough job coming up but he does next to nothing during the entire invasion. This strikes me as particularly odd given how important a pawn Kabuto is to Orochimaru. What exactly was the purpose of going undercover for Orochimaru? The only explanation I can think of involves what happens to Hinata. Just before the Invasion kicks off everybody’s attention is grabbed by the bout between the genius of the Hyuuga Clan, Neji, and some kid called Naruto:
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During the Middle of this fight, Hinata collapses:
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Everybody believes this is because of the injuries Hinata sustained against Neji:
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Nobody thinks anything of it when a mysterious ANBU agent offers some medical treatment:
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This event is entirely forgotten about by everybody. Nobody even notices that the ANBU agent is Kabuto, who earlier killed an ANBU guard on duty and stole his mask. As he says at the time when confronted by Kiba … Kiba: “who are you?”… Kabuto: “No one suspicious” … oh really?
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I think that the entire Invasionof Konoha was all a diversion just so that Kabuto could get his hands on Hinata without anybody noticing:
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Royal Blood
People laughed back in the day when I suggested that Oro had invaded Konoha in order to get samples from Hinata, back in the day (***********'s old forum …pfft). Now that we’ve learned for certain that the Sharingan had its roots in the Byakugan, I think that the proposition is altogether much easier to take seriously:
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Before Kaguya even ate the Fruit of the Shinju, it would seem that she was born to a Royal Family and I think that that Royal Family are the very same Hyuuga clan that we know today:
Kaguya the Princess:
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Kaguya’s Byakugan:
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It may be that the Royal Line was passed down Hamura but I suspect for reasons set out earlier that Hamura did not survive the fight with the Juubi. Moreover I think that Hagoromo still bore the Royal Standard of the Kaguya clan – Look behind Hagoromo as he gives his powers to his reincarnated sons and you will see a very peculiar emblem:
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This is the mark of the Hyuuga clan and their unique style of fighting:
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Hagoromo should not have this Emblem unless he was recognized as belonging to the Royal Clan. Hagoromo does not have Byakugan and he did not pass it down to his sons. That would make Hagoromo the originator of what are effectively early branch families to the original Royal Hyuuga line (including the Uchiha and Senju).
We don’t yet know whether Hamura carried forward Kaguya’s Royal Line. We’ don’t know what happened to Hamura… but I would speculate that Kaguya’s indiscretion in eating the forbidden fruit is exactly the reason why the Hyuuga clan go to such ridiculous lengths in order to preserve the secrets of their powers. In particular, the Caged Bird Seal:
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Having seen the harm done by Kaguya the Hyuuga stepped out of the spot light, carrying forward their traditions but not as an imperial family so much as just another noble family among many.
Over the years multiple attempts were made in order to steal the secrets of the Hyuuga. It could be that these attempts were made by jealous countries trying to steal the Hyuuga’s powerful dojutsu. Certainly this might explain Hinata’s kidnapping on her third birthday by a Kumogakure envoy:
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Slightly more suspicious is how Ao ended up with a Byakugan:
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Ao claims that he won it in a fight (but how or why the Caged Bird Seal didn’t activate is not explained)
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Certainly Danzo expresses surprise that Kirigakure has obtained this treasure:
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No,... what is suspicious is that the Mizukage does not know how to undo the seal that protects the Byakugan as though the Hunter Nin (who were involved in lots of dubious side missions for Madara and Root) were beyond the reach of their Kage:
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The most mysterious attempt on Hinata however comes from her uncle Hizashi who attacks Hinata with “Killing Intent” forcing Hiashi to activate the seal:
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This reminds me of the mysterious circumstances surrounding the Uchiha Massacre. There has never been an adequate account of why Fugaku decided to rebel against the leaf setting in motion the eventual order to eradicate the Uchiha. Like Hizashi, Fugaku died proud of his son but his actions seem incongruous with his dedication and loyalty to his clan and the Leaf… but not before doing something entirely out of character.
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The reason for Fugaku’s change of heart appears to be related to the intervention of Black Zetsu and the venom of the Demon:
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This is not the first time where there has been an extraordinary coincidence of interests between the Snake and Black Zetsu. If just anyone can steal a Byakugan then the true secrets of the Hyuuga must be locked in the heir to the Main Family and/or their advanced blood:
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Kishi might not addresss these questions before the end of the series in a couple of weeks time. I do note however that the Hyuuga stand out as having a special role in the timeskip movie “The Last”. Hanabi was one of the first new designs for a character revealed:
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…and Hinata is the focus of attention in the collected characters on the poster (the only one not staring in the same direction):
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Maybe it is all of no significance…maybe it will all be addressed after the timeskip in a Hyuuga centric story but I suspect the Demon has grander plans than just a young Uchiha.
PS anyone scratching their heads at the title … Hyuuga translates as a place in the Sun.
Ah …. no. I’m just getting some old theories out of my system before the manga goes on hiatus. I’ve been dredging up old theories I’ve been writing for years. Most of them still stand up pretty well or at least I haven’t seen too many criticisms that can’t be countered in some way. I wrote the first version of this new installment back when *********** had a forum … you should have seen the abuse I got for my Tobi is Obito Thread. Kukuku …
But seriously I'd love it if Kishi read these threads.
Probably not before November 10 but the Last or a Part 3 could allow Kishi the space to develop what I always thought were the unexplained mysteries. Anyway this one is on the Invasion of Konoha and the Demon. I still have a couple more Ideas I can develop on the theme and I still welcome any other comments or ideas on the same (hopefully I'll be able to address all the remaining questions - @Dragonor I'll get there eventually). Glad to hear you're enjoying it though. For now sit back and enjoy...
A Place in the Sun
Sasuke is the first part of Orochimaru’s plan. Oro has made no secret of his ambition to take the young Uchiha. What is not so clear is what the next stage of his plan after this is:
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I think that Orochimaru has been running several operations simultaneously using his array of agents and informants. Not all who serve Orochimaru even appreciate that they are helping the Snake advance his ambitions. Even Kabuto does not know the full extent of Orochimaru’s design.
There is one particular question that has been raised recently that has gone unanswered and that is why Orochimaru invaded the Leaf. Sasuke sensed something did not quite fit in Orochimaru’s stated goals – we see an awkward moment between the pair on their way to the Uzumaki shrine where Sasuke confronts Oro about his true intentions:
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What is the real reason?
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Invasion of Konoha
I think that the answer lies with the Hyuuga. During the invasion, Orochimaru’s right hand man Kabuto is sent on a special mission while the Leaf is distracted by the Chuunin Exams Final Rounds:
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Kabuto says he has a tough job coming up but he does next to nothing during the entire invasion. This strikes me as particularly odd given how important a pawn Kabuto is to Orochimaru. What exactly was the purpose of going undercover for Orochimaru? The only explanation I can think of involves what happens to Hinata. Just before the Invasion kicks off everybody’s attention is grabbed by the bout between the genius of the Hyuuga Clan, Neji, and some kid called Naruto:
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During the Middle of this fight, Hinata collapses:
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Everybody believes this is because of the injuries Hinata sustained against Neji:
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Nobody thinks anything of it when a mysterious ANBU agent offers some medical treatment:
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This event is entirely forgotten about by everybody. Nobody even notices that the ANBU agent is Kabuto, who earlier killed an ANBU guard on duty and stole his mask. As he says at the time when confronted by Kiba … Kiba: “who are you?”… Kabuto: “No one suspicious” … oh really?
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I think that the entire Invasionof Konoha was all a diversion just so that Kabuto could get his hands on Hinata without anybody noticing:
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Royal Blood
People laughed back in the day when I suggested that Oro had invaded Konoha in order to get samples from Hinata, back in the day (***********'s old forum …pfft). Now that we’ve learned for certain that the Sharingan had its roots in the Byakugan, I think that the proposition is altogether much easier to take seriously:
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Before Kaguya even ate the Fruit of the Shinju, it would seem that she was born to a Royal Family and I think that that Royal Family are the very same Hyuuga clan that we know today:
Kaguya the Princess:
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Kaguya’s Byakugan:
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It may be that the Royal Line was passed down Hamura but I suspect for reasons set out earlier that Hamura did not survive the fight with the Juubi. Moreover I think that Hagoromo still bore the Royal Standard of the Kaguya clan – Look behind Hagoromo as he gives his powers to his reincarnated sons and you will see a very peculiar emblem:
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This is the mark of the Hyuuga clan and their unique style of fighting:
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Hagoromo should not have this Emblem unless he was recognized as belonging to the Royal Clan. Hagoromo does not have Byakugan and he did not pass it down to his sons. That would make Hagoromo the originator of what are effectively early branch families to the original Royal Hyuuga line (including the Uchiha and Senju).
We don’t yet know whether Hamura carried forward Kaguya’s Royal Line. We’ don’t know what happened to Hamura… but I would speculate that Kaguya’s indiscretion in eating the forbidden fruit is exactly the reason why the Hyuuga clan go to such ridiculous lengths in order to preserve the secrets of their powers. In particular, the Caged Bird Seal:
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Having seen the harm done by Kaguya the Hyuuga stepped out of the spot light, carrying forward their traditions but not as an imperial family so much as just another noble family among many.
Over the years multiple attempts were made in order to steal the secrets of the Hyuuga. It could be that these attempts were made by jealous countries trying to steal the Hyuuga’s powerful dojutsu. Certainly this might explain Hinata’s kidnapping on her third birthday by a Kumogakure envoy:
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Slightly more suspicious is how Ao ended up with a Byakugan:
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Ao claims that he won it in a fight (but how or why the Caged Bird Seal didn’t activate is not explained)
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Certainly Danzo expresses surprise that Kirigakure has obtained this treasure:
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No,... what is suspicious is that the Mizukage does not know how to undo the seal that protects the Byakugan as though the Hunter Nin (who were involved in lots of dubious side missions for Madara and Root) were beyond the reach of their Kage:
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The most mysterious attempt on Hinata however comes from her uncle Hizashi who attacks Hinata with “Killing Intent” forcing Hiashi to activate the seal:
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This reminds me of the mysterious circumstances surrounding the Uchiha Massacre. There has never been an adequate account of why Fugaku decided to rebel against the leaf setting in motion the eventual order to eradicate the Uchiha. Like Hizashi, Fugaku died proud of his son but his actions seem incongruous with his dedication and loyalty to his clan and the Leaf… but not before doing something entirely out of character.
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The reason for Fugaku’s change of heart appears to be related to the intervention of Black Zetsu and the venom of the Demon:
You must be registered for see images
This is not the first time where there has been an extraordinary coincidence of interests between the Snake and Black Zetsu. If just anyone can steal a Byakugan then the true secrets of the Hyuuga must be locked in the heir to the Main Family and/or their advanced blood:
You must be registered for see images
Kishi might not addresss these questions before the end of the series in a couple of weeks time. I do note however that the Hyuuga stand out as having a special role in the timeskip movie “The Last”. Hanabi was one of the first new designs for a character revealed:
You must be registered for see images
…and Hinata is the focus of attention in the collected characters on the poster (the only one not staring in the same direction):
You must be registered for see images
Maybe it is all of no significance…maybe it will all be addressed after the timeskip in a Hyuuga centric story but I suspect the Demon has grander plans than just a young Uchiha.
PS anyone scratching their heads at the title … Hyuuga translates as a place in the Sun.
No man, i dont think he will give his body to Orochimaru, i think there is much more about his sharinnengan...its Ultimate eye... so there must be more then just swapthings jutsu..
let me clear this: that prophecy concerned ppl who were destined to be trained by Jiraiya. Sasuke has never been a student of Jiraiya's. The only prophecy Sasuke was part of was being the young man Naruto was supposed to fight.
