The Debating Garage.

The options.

  • Naruto with Sakura.

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • Naruto with Hinata.

    Votes: 7 50.0%
  • Against either.

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Couldn't be bothered

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • Total voters
    14

Jack Spicer

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Off topic: We need more NaruSaku supporters! If you guys have friends you'd like to add to the debate don't be scared we won't bite! :D Chatte is offline, I messaged her though, and I've invited a mother person. Lets keep it going guys this is great! Also, if you have ideas for the next one, I'll be trying to do this daily with help from L Lawliet, I'd love to hear them so shoot me or him a message. ^.^
I agree. NaruSaku is actually in the poll and one half of the thread's original topic. It needs some love XD I

Hey, I'm diggin the debates. Glad they'll be more.
 
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L Lawliet

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Welcome, Melanee. Haven't seen you in ages! Germanicus, feel free to express your opinion. Baguette, I'm waiting patiently for your attack. Don't tease me. You know I can't stand it!
 
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Baguette

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Well, we all know how she was constantly "stalking" him. In fact, I would risk it and say Hinata is the cutest, most harmless expression of a Yandere. That, and also the fact that Naruto being outcasted is definitely not a secret. Her being too shy, or perhaps to scared to get any closer to Naruto when that's exactly what he needed might have been a huge disadvantage, but I think she's compensating now. Loving someone is scary after all. I know that the best.
In "stalking" Naruto, Hinata may have observed Naruto's horrid life and felt sympathy, but to assert that she understands his pain is grasping to far. True understanding requires a great deal of empathy, and in that regard Hinata does not understand Naruto better than any of the other Konoha 11, Sakura included.

Take Lee, Shikamaru, and Neji for example. Lee knows what it's like being thought of as a loser and having to work hard to get stronger, just like Naruto. Shikamaru lost his sensei Asuma, so he completely understood how Naruto felt when Jiraiya died. Although Neji was considered a genius, he was treated as a tool during most of his childhood, the same way that a Jinchuriki might be treated by it's villagers. None of them understand completely what Naruto has gone through throughout his life, but they all understand a different part of his pain.

Similarly, Hinata has a basic understanding of how Naruto felt during his childhood, though not completely. She knew what it was like being looked down upon, not by the entire village, but by her father. Does this mean that she understands Naruto better than any of the other K11? No. She somewhat understands part of the pain he went through, like many of the other K11.

At this point, I would usually also point out the regular argument regarding the fact that Hinata was apparently always watching Naruto. If she knew how he felt, I would think that she would have done something to get closer to him - to show him that he wasn't alone. She doesn't do that though. She's fine drawing strength from Naruto while watching him suffer, but she does nothing to return the favor to him. She doesn't even talk to him until the Chuunin Exams.
However, given your opinion, I'll let it slide.

Even so, she didn't try to get to know him personally, she just looked at the image he portrayed as determined and hardworking boy that she was able to draw strength from (The third databook also reinforces this by saying that "to her, he is the image of hard-work and potential). That's the image that Naruto portrays on the surface, but that's not who he is as a person. Hinata doesn't know the person beneath the image which is why every time we see her supporting him, she's always reinforcing his nindo. That's the only thing she knows to do because that's all she understands about Naruto. She doesn't know about his personal life of the struggles that he's been through with his team.

What does Hinata know about Naruto's relationship with Sasuke?
What does she know about his burning desire to rescue him from the darkness?
What does she know about his situation as a Jinchuuriki?

Unlike Hinata, Sakura was there for all of these things. She was part of Team 7 from the start, and has shared almost every experience that they've gone through together. She much better understands Naruto's desire to save Sasuke, because she shares that very same desire to save Sasuke make Team 7 whole again.
Even with things that she can't personally understand, such as Naruto's role as a Jinchuurki, she felt deep concern for him and had a desire to learn more about the Kyuubi and the Mokuton in order to help ease his burdens.

If we're going to talk about who between Sakura and Hinata better understands Naruto, I would have to respectfully disagree with your opinion.
 
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Melanee

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Thanks to Crow. for inviting me!

I am a NaruHina supporter. I have expressed my views many times before, but I will repost them again for the sake of this debate.

Naruto is a wild character, excitable and happy, but strong and determined. He's like a raging fireball. Sakura is exactly the same way. I cannot see those two working out when they don't compliment each other and only fuel the fire.

Hinata is shy, quiet and gentle. She can control his rage when he begins to get out of hand.

Hinata, though self-conscious of herself and her abilities, found her inner strength by watching Naruto. She grew to love him overtime, and eventually confessed it. He in turn learned form her as well when she showed him strength after Neji's death.

Many state that Naruto did not return her feelings, but between the time she confessed and her near death, there was little time for Naruto to react to and he went into a deep rage when she was impaled. That alone showed that her confession affected him internally.

Naruto is still learning about emotions, especially concerning girls. He thought and probably still does think his feelings for Sakura are genuine, so he fails to notice Hinata's love. That does not mean he will not return her feelings. In chapter 615 it was not romantic, but it was a sign of something going beyond friendship. Hinata, being his opposite and of pure light, brought him from the darkness Obito was trying to pull him into.

When Kushina said Naruto should find someone like her, despite the similar personality to Sakura, Kushina stood by Minato in a metaphoric way, holding his hand. That is exactly what Hinata is doing with Naruto.
 

L Lawliet

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In "stalking" Naruto, Hinata may have observed Naruto's horrid life and felt sympathy, but to assert that she understands his pain is grasping to far. True understanding requires a great deal of empathy, and in that regard Hinata does not understand Naruto better than any of the other Konoha 11, Sakura included.

Take Lee, Shikamaru, and Neji for example. Lee knows what it's like being thought of as a loser and having to work hard to get stronger, just like Naruto. Shikamaru lost his sensei Asuma, so he completely understood how Naruto felt when Jiraiya died. Although Neji was considered a genius, he was treated as a tool during most of his childhood, the same way that a Jinchuriki might be treated by it's villagers. None of them understand completely what Naruto has gone through throughout his life, but they all understand a different part of his pain.

Similarly, Hinata has a basic understanding of how Naruto felt during his childhood, though not completely. She knew what it was like being looked down upon, not by the entire village, but by her father. Does this mean that she understands Naruto better than any of the other K11? No. She somewhat understands part of the pain he went through, like many of the other K11.

At this point, I would usually also point out the regular argument regarding the fact that Hinata was apparently always watching Naruto. If she knew how he felt, I would think that she would have done something to get closer to him - to show him that he wasn't alone. She doesn't do that though. She's fine drawing strength from Naruto while watching him suffer, but she does nothing to return the favor to him. She doesn't even talk to him until the Chuunin Exams.
However, given your opinion, I'll let it slide.

Even so, she didn't try to get to know him personally, she just looked at the image he portrayed as determined and hardworking boy that she was able to draw strength from (The third databook also reinforces this by saying that "to her, he is the image of hard-work and potential). That's the image that Naruto portrays on the surface, but that's not who he is as a person. Hinata doesn't know the person beneath the image which is why every time we see her supporting him, she's always reinforcing his nindo. That's the only thing she knows to do because that's all she understands about Naruto. She doesn't know about his personal life of the struggles that he's been through with his team.

What does Hinata know about Naruto's relationship with Sasuke?
What does she know about his burning desire to rescue him from the darkness?
What does she know about his situation as a Jinchuuriki?

Unlike Hinata, Sakura was there for all of these things. She was part of Team 7 from the start, and has shared almost every experience that they've gone through together. She much better understands Naruto's desire to save Sasuke, because she shares that very same desire to save Sasuke make Team 7 whole again.
Even with things that she can't personally understand, such as Naruto's role as a Jinchuurki, she felt deep concern for him and had a desire to learn more about the Kyuubi and the Mokuton in order to help ease his burdens.

If we're going to talk about who between Sakura and Hinata better understands Naruto, I would have to respectfully disagree with your opinion.
As a former NaruSaku, I also think that Sakura has way better chances to understand Naruto, what with her being there since the start, and her practically being both witness and participant in many of the struggles he went through because of Sasuke. In that regard, she's got like the whole castle of Naruto's heart wide open... Or at least she HAD it.

What I'm going to say next is more about me reveiwing Sakura's actions than me supporting Hinata, because one of the most overlooked holes in this eternal discussion is that, in the end, when it mattered the most, neither of them was there for Naruto. And when I say "mattered the most", I'm referring to Jiraiya's death, Naruto's childhood, his suffering due to knowing Sasuke was an Akatsuki and followed Tobi and such. You know when he was hyperventilating?

I think, if Sakura does understand Naruto better (which she does, albeit there's not a huge margin of difference), then there is a gigantic contradiction. When she's supposed to use that understanding to help Naruto out, she goes and does the exact opposit, or just downright nothing. And I'm not saying this in the sense of "yeah, she didn't care for him", but more in the sense of she putting other things on the top of her mind and perhaps uncounsciously forgetting about her comrade. Like, for example, when Naruto was reacting to Jiraiya's death's notice, she was more in Tsunade's side than in Naruto's. Instead of understanding the fact that he, as a Jiinchuuriki, had found in Jiraiya one of the most important bonds ever to matter, when he had none before (besides Iruka), and that losing him was as good for Naruto as it would be for Sakura to lose her parents... Instead of that, she went and scolded him. Twice.

She might have wanted to be there for him, but in the end what happened? Iruka was the one. Too bad. For both her and Hinata. However, Hinata didn't make it worse in my young, unexperienced eyes lol. The disadvantage Hinata has here is that she might have had little to no idea of how important was Jiraiya to Naruto, not to mention she might have not even known he had died.
 

Baguette

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I'm interested in knowing why people tend to think Kushina's remark of "find a woman like me" gives an advantage to Sakura and not to Hinata? For all we know, Kushina might have said "like me" as in "like the way I am with your father"... Sorry, I fail to see Kushina as a Tsundere when she's with Minato. That guy just pressed all the perfect buttons within her. He was just too much of a prince charming.
I read an explanation of that line just a couple of months ago. Here it is:
"のような" = Like

Used in a general term to compare two simulates.
の・ようなもの No Yōna Mono = Something like it

That was the definition of the "like" Kushina used, for Naruto to find someone [similar to] her.

If you're asserting that Kushina's is not aggressive in her relationship with Minato, then you would also be incorrect.
First, we can infer from Kushina's quotes on the eve of their death: "This is the first argument that you've ever won," that their relationship was not some PrinceCharmingXPrincess relationship. They had their regular share of conflicts, which is frankly unsurprising given her personality.
For explicit evidence, look no further than Road to Ninja. And before you say that "it's just a movie and it doesn't count," keep in mind that it STILL IS Kishimoto's intended portrayal of Naruto's family and Kushina's personality as exactly the way it would be in the canon story. There she is still shown to be the aggressive one within the family, always losing her temper and still acting like a regular Tsundere/Shonen mother, with Minato remaining the submissive one.
 
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naruto and sakura.
naruto is too awesome for hinata. shes just...bleh. shes a pushover.
naruto is the only person sakura will ever go to for help. she bawled so hard when she realized she was hurting naruto.
hinatas love for naruto is like sakuras love for sasuke; one sided.
 

Crow.

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naruto and sakura.
Naruto is too awesome for hinata. shes just...bleh. shes a pushover.
naruto is the only person sakura will ever go to for help. she bawled so hard when she realized she was hurting naruto.
hinatas love for naruto is like sakuras love for sasuke; one sided.
None of that please. But I'm glad that we have a NaruSaku supporter. ^.^
 

Baguette

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As a former NaruSaku, I also think that Sakura has way better chances to understand Naruto, what with her being there since the start, and her practically being both witness and participant in many of the struggles he went through because of Sasuke. In that regard, she's got like the whole castle of Naruto's heart wide open... Or at least she HAD it.

What I'm going to say next is more about me reveiwing Sakura's actions than me supporting Hinata, because one of the most overlooked holes in this eternal discussion is that, in the end, when it mattered the most, neither of them was there for Naruto. And when I say "mattered the most", I'm referring to Jiraiya's death, Naruto's childhood, his suffering due to knowing Sasuke was an Akatsuki and followed Tobi and such. You know when he was hyperventilating?

I think, if Sakura does understand Naruto better (which she does, albeit there's not a huge margin of difference), then there is a gigantic contradiction. When she's supposed to use that understanding to help Naruto out, she goes and does the exact opposit, or just downright nothing. And I'm not saying this in the sense of "yeah, she didn't care for him", but more in the sense of she putting other things on the top of her mind and perhaps uncounsciously forgetting about her comrade. Like, for example, when Naruto was reacting to Jiraiya's death's notice, she was more in Tsunade's side than in Naruto's. Instead of understanding the fact that he, as a Jiinchuuriki, had found in Jiraiya one of the most important bonds ever to matter, when he had none before (besides Iruka), and that losing him was as good for Naruto as it would be for Sakura to lose her parents... Instead of that, she went and scolded him. Twice.

She might have wanted to be there for him, but in the end what happened? Iruka was the one. Too bad. For both her and Hinata. However, Hinata didn't make it worse in my young, unexperienced eyes lol. The disadvantage Hinata has here is that she might have had little to no idea of how important was Jiraiya to Naruto, not to mention she might have not even known he had died.
Which goes back to my saying that each of the Konoha 11 can empathize best with different parts of Naruto's pain. Shikamaru is the one among them who best understands Naruto's loss of Jiraiya, as he went through the same ordeal with Asuma. That's why he was best suited to bringing Naruto out of his sorrowful state.
Which is also why I kinda feel that Shikamaru is a much better friend to Naruto than Sasuke ever was...but I digress.
 

L Lawliet

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I read an explanation of that line just a couple of months ago. Here it is:
"のような" = Like

Used in a general term to compare two simulates.
の・ようなもの No Yōna Mono = Something like it

That was the definition of the "like" Kushina used, for Naruto to find someone [similar to] her.

If you're asserting that Kushina's is not aggressive in her relationship with Minato, then you would also be incorrect.
First, we can infer from Kushina's quotes on the eve of their death: "This is the first argument that you've ever won," that their relationship was not some PrinceCharmingXPrincess relationship. They had their regular share of conflicts, which is frankly unsurprising given her personality.
For explicit evidence, look no further than Road to Ninja. And before you say that "it's just a movie and it doesn't count," keep in mind that it STILL IS Kishimoto's intended portrayal of Naruto's family and Kushina's personality as exactly the way it would be in the canon story. There she is still shown to be the aggressive one within the family, always losing her temper and still acting like a regular Tsundere/Shonen mother, with Minato remaining the submissive one.


LOL I would never have dreamed of mentioning it was just a movie before Your Presence, Majesty. Not to mention I'm aware that this is perhaps the only movie Kishimoto actually cared and participated wholeheartedly. But more than the technical translation of what Kushina said to Naruto, I was more like referring to what she wanted to convey by saying that. The thing with Tsunderes is that they think they are being clear enough with their feelings, when they are not, and similarly, they tend to think they are being too cold when it's actually the opposite. The fact that Minato saved her and loved her I think doused her fiery temper, albeit a little bit.

But you're right in everything else, though.
 

Melanee

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naruto and sakura.
naruto is too awesome for hinata. shes just...bleh. shes a pushover.
naruto is the only person sakura will ever go to for help. she bawled so hard when she realized she was hurting naruto.
hinatas love for naruto is like sakuras love for sasuke; one sided.
Hinata did start off as weak, but she grew and her emotions are stable and she is confident. She never stopped loving Naruto. Sakura is still torn with her feelings for Sasuke, and yes she cried, but it was out of remorse for what she realized she put him through. Sakura is not a cruel girl and finding out she caused him all that pain when all he did was try to bring Sasuke back to her, really hit her hard. Naruto knows he would always be second in her heart, but with Hinata he has her whole heart if he ever opens his eyes and sees it.
 

Baguette

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Hinata did start off as weak, but she grew and her emotions are stable and she is confident. She never stopped loving Naruto. Sakura is still torn with her feelings for Sasuke, and yes she cried, but it was out of remorse for what she realized she put him through. Sakura is not a cruel girl and finding out she caused him all that pain when all he did was try to bring Sasuke back to her, really hit her hard. Naruto knows he would always be second in her heart, but with Hinata he has her whole heart if he ever opens his eyes and sees it.
And yet, by the same standards, Hinata would be second in Naruto's heart should he decide to go with her.
 

L Lawliet

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Which goes back to my saying that each of the Konoha 11 can empathize best with different parts of Naruto's pain. Shikamaru is the one among them who best understands Naruto's loss of Jiraiya, as he went through the same ordeal with Asuma. That's why he was best suited to bringing Naruto out of his sorrowful state.
Which is also why I kinda feel that Shikamaru is a much better friend to Naruto than Sasuke ever was...but I digress.
Yes, you're right. Losing Asuma was too hard for me, but hey. Sh*t happens, man. Plus, we're ninja. Being Naruto's friend is troublesome, but if you gotta do it, you gotta do it. It's even more troublesome to leave him alone in times like these. To protect the King, strength and heart like his is needed. And I think that what my alter ego L Lawliet wants to say when mentioning Jiraya's death is that albeit I was the best choice for conforting that Ramen Freak, perhaps a woman's touch would have also conforted him considerably? I dunno, I'm a guy. Women are troublesome. There when you don't need them, not there when you do.

/Shikamaru.
 

Baguette

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Yes, you're right. Losing Asuma was too hard for me, but hey. Sh*t happens, man. Plus, we're ninja. Being Naruto's friend is troublesome, but if you gotta do it, you gotta do it. It's even more troublesome to leave him alone in times like these. To protect the King, strength and heart like his is needed. And I think that what my alter ego L Lawliet wants to say when mentioning Jiraya's death is that albeit I was the best choice for conforting that Ramen Freak, perhaps a woman's touch would have also conforted him considerably? I dunno, I'm a guy. Women are troublesome. There when you don't need them, not there when you do.
/Shikamaru.
I knew you would write something like that. Lol
 
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Melanee

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And yet, by the same standards, Hinata would be second in Naruto's heart should he decide to go with her.
Would she be? Naruto thinks he loves Sakura, but it's not in the way he did as a child. He wants her to be with Sasuke, which is part of his goal in bringing him home. Naruto doesn't know what love really is, as he's never experienced it before in a romantic way, so naturally his first crush would be the one he would assume is his true love. In the end, it's his bond to Sakura and Sasuke that overpowers his emotions.
 

Crow.

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Yes, you're right. Losing Asuma was too hard for me, but hey. Sh*t happens, man. Plus, we're ninja. Being Naruto's friend is troublesome, but if you gotta do it, you gotta do it. It's even more troublesome to leave him alone in times like these. To protect the King, strength and heart like his is needed. And I think that what my alter ego L Lawliet wants to say when mentioning Jiraya's death is that albeit I was the best choice for conforting that Ramen Freak, perhaps a woman's touch would have also conforted him considerably? I dunno, I'm a guy. Women are troublesome. There when you don't need them, not there when you do.

/Shikamaru.
*you need to spread some reputation around before giving it to L Lawliet again* XD
 
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