The Death of Kurama, A Closer Look

Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
330
Kin
9💸
Kumi
18💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I wanted to share my thoughts and findings on the topic of Kurama dying.

Lets be clear. What happen to Naruto this chapter is somewhat ambiguous depending on your understanding of how jinchuriki and biju work, and depending on your interpretation of what kurama said. Lets look at past examples of biju extractions from jinchuriki.

Example 1: We see kurama get extracted from naruto, and approaching death. What saves him is sealing another biju in it's place, in this case the other half of Kurama.
You must be registered for see medias


Example 2: We see Kurama using all his chakra, which resulted in him going to sleep. Note that is very low risk and didn't directly endanger naruto's life. Not only that but there was little to no risk for kurama either because he can easily recovery and regain his chakra.
You must be registered for see medias

Also note the effect this had on naruto. He no longer benefited from the boost in chakra and power and speed that kurama constantly and readily provided. He had to operate essentially on his own as if he wasn't a jinchuriki.

Example 3: Kurama loss a significant amount of chakra, to the point where he couldn't maintain a biju mode. Instead of waiting for his chakra levels to replenish naturally over time, he linked up with his other half who had much more chakra. This allowed chakra to be shared between both halfs, and so naruto's kurama was able to gain chakra more quickly and once again enter biju mode.
You must be registered for see medias

Example 4: Obito had all 9 biju extracted from him, but he kept the physical body of the juubi, the gedo statue, sealed inside him so his life was preserved.

Example 5: Madara had the 9 biju and the gedo statue extracted from him, and so he died.

So you see, things aren't just black and white. There are extremes, sure, but there's also nuance in between.

Based on how Baryon Mode works, it was Kurama's chakra that got "consumed," and in this case consumed can be synonymous with
You must be registered for see medias

We also know that the chakra of a biju disperses when their host dies. And the biju eventually comes back to life as their chakra coalesces.
You must be registered for see medias

Now with all this context. Lets look at what happened. Essential Kurama manually disperses his chakra and is effectively dead, but it isn't permanent. Plus his physical body remains sealed inside naruto, so that he doesn't die as well. It'll take some time before kurama chakra regathers and returns to the seal inside naruto. Til then naruto basically loss his biju power.

My Thoughts + mini theory

I think this is both sad and interesting. Though it would be cool to see how naruto adapts his fighting style without having kurama around.

I'll go even further to theorize that on the event of Kurama's return, if Naruto lives that long, that naruto will(by some other means) also gain chakra from the remaining 8 biju again and will finally enter rsm as hokage. A chapter like that would be the ultimate pay off for everything endured so far. And I could see that potentially happening.

And lastly I want to touch on what baryon mode represents besides just another power for naruto. Based on it's explanation and how it works, it proves that familiar concepts like chakra can be applied in new ways and result in new powers/abilities. I think this theme is echoed throughout the series, which might be why it was included in the series.
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The problem is that Naruto would've know if his chakra wasn't being consumed, so that's a bad excuse. On the initial point, resealing or sealing another doesn't restore a person, that was definitely bad writing in the WA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kakooli
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
330
Kin
9💸
Kumi
18💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The problem is that Naruto would've know if his chakra wasn't being consumed, so that's a bad excuse. On the initial point, resealing or sealing another doesn't restore a person, that was definitely bad writing in the WA.
1st point: They are symbiotic in nature and their chakra pools are shared. So while it does makes sense that he would notice the depletion of chakra, I could also understand how it would be overlooked since the mode is entirely new and is his comprehension of it was very low.

2nd point: The sealing of the 2nd half of kurama DID save naruto. That is where the precedent was set.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LightSo6p

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
1st point: They are symbiotic in nature and their chakra pools are shared. So while it does makes sense that he would notice the depletion of chakra, I could also understand how it would be overlooked since the mode is entirely new and is his comprehension of it was very low.
They have always been symbiotic, the seal was designed for their chakra to become one. And when Naruto opened the cage they effectively merged, however Naruto always knew when he ran out of chakra, he's many things but retard isn't one of them.



2nd point: The sealing of the 2nd half of kurama DID save naruto. That is where the precedent was set.
That was an asspull, not a precedent. The precedent was the loss of tailed beast means death, even sealing one again doesn't negate that. That is what Kushina was planning on doing, yet it would still kill her. Half of Kurama or whole Kurama is wholly irrelevant to that fact.
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
1,131
Kin
3,572💸
Kumi
1,095💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
That was an asspull, not a precedent. The precedent was the loss of tailed beast means death, even sealing one again doesn't negate that. That is what Kushina was planning on doing, yet it would still kill her. Half of Kurama or whole Kurama is wholly irrelevant to that fact.
After giving birth, not having actively mixed up energies like Naruto was trained to.

Current Naruto also has portions of energy from the other 8, as well as a semi-alien body.
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
After giving birth, not having actively mixed up energies like Naruto was trained to.
That was never state to be the reason, in fact Naruto and Yang Kurama were even more connected than Kushina and Kurama. The moment Kurama was ripped out Naruto should be also been ripped out. After all they had become one, when Naruto released the cage. Which makes the excuses even more worse.



Current Naruto also has portions of energy from the other 8, as well as a semi-alien body.
Had and he never had a semi-alien body, his residence and lifeforce was more pathetic than death bed Kushina's so let's not go there.
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
1,131
Kin
3,572💸
Kumi
1,095💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
That was never state to be the reason, in fact Naruto and Yang Kurama were even more connected than Kushina and Kurama. The moment Kurama was ripped out Naruto should be also been ripped out. After all they had become one, when Naruto released the cage. Which makes the excuses even more worse.
Kurama didn't get extracted, he got consumed.


Had and he never had a semi-alien body, his residence and lifeforce was more pathetic than death bed Kushina's so let's not go there.
So he has experienced something similar to an extraction, which would naturally temper his body.

SPSM would make his body closer to an alien than a normal person
 

LightSo6p

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
1,270
Kin
509💸
Kumi
357💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
That was never state to be the reason, in fact Naruto and Yang Kurama were even more connected than Kushina and Kurama. The moment Kurama was ripped out Naruto should be also been ripped out. After all they had become one, when Naruto released the cage. Which makes the excuses even more worse.





Had and he never had a semi-alien body, his residence and lifeforce was more pathetic than death bed Kushina's so let's not go there.
like I said months ago you didn’t know how the power work, you was just putting your own spin on it. You can’t yell it’s in the manga but when it you prove you wrong it’s asspull Ijs..

kurama lied something he did before, because like he said if he didn’t naruto wouldn’t of went with the plan. You say naruto should of been able to fill kurama chakra depleting but to me that a assumption because none of us actually wrote the manga we just read it
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Kurama didn't get extracted, he got consumed.
No it's chajra got used up, like it always does.



So he has experienced something similar to an extraction, which would naturally temper his body.

SPSM would make his body closer to an alien than a normal person
Both fanfic arguments.

like I said months ago you didn’t know how the power work, you was just putting your own spin on it. You can’t yell it’s in the manga but when it you prove you wrong it’s asspull Ijs..
I didn't examine it, Kurama explained how it worked and told us both would die. And he told us how it worked, so yes it's an asspull because it goes against what actually happened.

kurama lied something he did before, because like he said if he didn’t naruto wouldn’t of went with the plan. You say naruto should of been able to fill kurama chakra depleting but to me that a assumption because none of us actually wrote the manga we just read it
Nope, it was consuming both their chakras, why would one die and not the other. That's not a lie, that's just confirms the writing is ass, and it was an asspull. Kurama didn't lie, the author just went against established rules and initial claims. Apart from the fact he killed an immortal with chakra that makes Naruto's reserves negligible. On top of that consumption of chakra has never killed a tailed beast (read vote 2), and on top of that the reasoning provided by Kurama was rubbish.

Arguing against what the author has shown and established using writing is possible poor writing and is just ass pulling.
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Where are you getting this?
Vote 2, where Kurama gave the last of it's chakra to Naruto.



Can you prove that statement?
Why would I need to prove tempering, unless the manga or databook states the opposite.

Also, nowhere is it claimed, aliens or beings close to aliens use SPSM. The Jyuubi is made of nature energy. No mention of aliens anywhere.

If you're claiming it to be true, you should provide the evidence for it.
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
1,131
Kin
3,572💸
Kumi
1,095💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Vote 2, where Kurama gave the last of it's chakra to Naruto.
So when Kurama said he gave his life he was just bluffing and he is actualy just sleeping noe? All that visual of him literally going puff like smoke is just some illusion?

Basically, two different processes, with different explanations, working towards different ends altogether.


Why would I need to prove tempering, unless the manga or databook states the opposite.
Exactly. Show this opposite to my theory before calling it fanfic.
Besides that, i am the one who made the tempering claim so i am proving it, not you.


Also, nowhere is it claimed, aliens or beings close to aliens use SPSM. The Jyuubi is made of nature energy. No mention of aliens anywhere
So when you prove your point, the manga must first claim the opposite, but when I'm proving a point the manga must directly state it? Doesn't seem fair.

Besides that, aliens literally consume the condensed energy of the TT. The guy who introduced it (Hagaromo) also gets his powers from his alien lineage. Shouldn't it be common sense?
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
So when Kurama said he gave his life he was just bluffing and he is actualy just sleeping noe? All that visual of him literally going puff like smoke is just some illusion?

Basically, two different processes, with different explanations, working towards different ends altogether.
Yeah, no. It consumed chakra and when you were out you died. You had better go read those chapters again. It was the same principles.



Exactly. Show this opposite to my theory before calling it fanfic.
Besides that, i am the one who made the tempering claim so i am proving it, not you.
It is fanfic, because nothing of the sort exists, not from the authors words, databooks or characters mouths. I mean if you have any of the three, I will happily recant that.



So when you prove your point, the manga must first claim the opposite, but when I'm proving a point the manga must directly state it? Doesn't seem fair.
Youre original claim was without merit, for it to be true there has to be something confirm it. As it must for the second, trying to lretend otherwise doesn't validate the claim

Besides that, aliens literally consume the condensed energy of the TT. The guy who introduced it (Hagaromo) also gets his powers from his alien lineage. Shouldn't it be common sense?
No, Hogaromo was at least half alien, those coming 50 generations later (hypothetically speaking), diluted down don't fit the bill. Common sense, wouldn't you say?
 

LightSo6p

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
1,270
Kin
509💸
Kumi
357💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
No it's chajra got used up, like it always does.





Both fanfic arguments.



I didn't examine it, Kurama explained how it worked and told us both would die. And he told us how it worked, so yes it's an asspull because it goes against what actually happened.



Nope, it was consuming both their chakras, why would one die and not the other. That's not a lie, that's just confirms the writing is ass, and it was an asspull. Kurama didn't lie, the author just went against established rules and initial claims. Apart from the fact he killed an immortal with chakra that makes Naruto's reserves negligible. On top of that consumption of chakra has never killed a tailed beast (read vote 2), and on top of that the reasoning provided by Kurama was rubbish.

Arguing against what the author has shown and established using writing is possible poor writing and is just ass pulling.
If kurama say he lied in manga (like he did) imma believe that bro, wasn’t anything established the moment he told naruto he lied. You just saying whatever to make this manga seem bad but still here lol, you can’t compare kurama chakra running out in vote 2 to this a new ability that drains your chakra and and lifespan
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
If kurama say he lied in manga (like he did) imma believe that bro, wasn’t anything established the moment he told naruto he lied. You just saying whatever to make this manga seem bad but still here lol, you can’t compare kurama chakra running out in vote 2 to this a new ability that drains your chakra and and lifespan
Sure thing, and Naruto didn't realise his chakra was also running out. That is how the mode was working, but somehow Kurama died. Kerala told the truth, then they decided to come up with a shit tier excuse save. Tailed beasts are immortal, nothing to be drained, which is why they respawn.
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
1,131
Kin
3,572💸
Kumi
1,095💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Yeah, no. It consumed chakra and when you were out you died. You had better go read those chapters again. It was the same principles.
Double standards man.

See, here you're talking about processes when the story uses different words f0r the two, but in the next section you talk about the words used by the authors and in the story.

If you can justify that, i can let this go.


It is fanfic, because nothing of the sort exists, not from the authors words, databooks or characters mouths. I mean if you have any of the three, I will happily recant that.
The standard you gave was of opposites, now you're calling for direct evidence . . .

My theory was of tempering, of which you said:
Why would I need to prove tempering, unless the manga or databook states the opposite.
So how about your own words?


Youre original claim was without merit, for it to be true there has to be something confirm it. As it must for the second, trying to lretend otherwise doesn't validate the claim
You yourself agreed he had beast portions in him before but now he doesn't. If that doesn't do it for you, then i desist.


No, Hogaromo was at least half alien, those coming 50 generations later (hypothetically speaking), diluted down don't fit the bill. Common sense, wouldn't you say?
So you agree his powers came from his alien side?

Sure, so how about when they had wierd spirit shenanigans essentially making them the children of Hagaromo AND GOT THEIR POWERS DIRECTLY FROM HIM?

Look, I'm not trying to argue the end of all arguements here - although it'd be great if we could settle this - but there has to be some basis of commonality or clear standards for our views.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LightSo6p

LightSo6p

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
1,270
Kin
509💸
Kumi
357💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Sure thing, and Naruto didn't realise his chakra was also running out. That is how the mode was working, but somehow Kurama died. Kerala told the truth, then they decided to come up with a shit tier excuse save. Tailed beasts are immortal, nothing to be drained, which is why they respawn.
I mean idk what to say. It’s in the manga so if that’s what kurama said it do who am I to say it done. Idk I probably just like to reach for a enjoyable story
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,567
Kin
8,665💸
Kumi
6,025💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I mean idk what to say. It’s in the manga so if that’s what kurama said it do who am I to say it done. Idk I probably just like to reach for a enjoyable story
That is why Kurama's own recon don't add up. Anyway, I don't know how you're enjoying the story, I found it abysmal, tbh.
Post automatically merged:

Double standards man.

See, here you're talking about processes when the story uses different words f0r the two, but in the next section you talk about the words used by the authors and in the story.

If you can justify that, i can let this go
There are no double standards we've been explained the process numerous times calling a spade something else doesn't negate it being a spade.

The standard you gave was of opposites, now you're calling for direct evidence . . .

My theory was of tempering, of which you said:
Direct evidence is required for random theories/excuses. Otherwise anybody could say anything and say prove the opposite.



You yourself agreed he had beast portions in him before but now he doesn't. If that doesn't do it for you, then i desist.
He had beast chakra, which connected them, not the tailed beast parts (actual being). Also, a reason why Kurama was going g to host the tailed beast meet ups, iirc.


So you agree his powers came from his alien side?

Sure, so how about when they had wierd spirit shenanigans essentially making them the children of Hagaromo AND GOT THEIR POWERS DIRECTLY FROM HIM?
No, I don't. He was far inferiority to Kushina who was also a human being as shown by relative performance. Anyway, on the RSM, Plotromo made it clear he can't do anything when Naruto wanted to get out, so him being alive is nothing to do with him handing out RSM or tailed beasts, since they were also involved in the power up handout.


Look, I'm not trying to argue the end of all arguements here - although it'd be great if we could settle this - but there has to be some basis of commonality or clear standards for our views.
I agree, but the issue is there can't be commonality on assumptions. That's were we differ.
 
Last edited:
Top