The basis behind Madara's aims

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In this thread, I am proceeding to explain the basis behind the actions, plans, beliefs... of Madara Uchiha.

I am not involving the transformation into White Zetsu, as it is obviously a hideous thing...

I am also not involving the means used by Madara to accomplish his goals (which is a different issue), only the goals themselves



Let's get started with the explanation...


First of all how did everything start?



How does conflict begin?
Hatred and war are two of the main themes of the series, let's see what leads us to this situation.​



-We humans, have a tendency to find satisfaction, which we usually call happiness.

-Not all humans find happiness in the same things, i.e we not always have the same desires.

-When a certain individual's desire implies a contradiction with another individual's desire, a conflict comes out.



Consequences of this conflict
All along the history, this conflict has led us to two situations, in an attempt to achieve a solution to this problem, but all of them, in some way or another, require the sacrifice of someone's happiness in order to increase that of another one. Thus all of them ar inperfect solutions​



1- A war

Killing each other. If one of the parts vanishes, obviously the former conflict disappears.

But another problem emerges (a bigger one, actually): people don't want do die (obviously), and this leads to the decrease of happiness of those ones.


2- A pretended state of peace

This situation of war has led humanity to reach a mutual agreement in which people create a system consisting of arbitray laws based on the convenience of the majority. This is what nations are.

But, although a better one, this is also an imperfect system, since there is a minority that cannot have its desires fulfilled.



Hagoromo's solution: Ninshuu
Why is it a pointless one?​


Hagoromo tought Ninshuu to people, in order for them to be able to connect their spiritual energy, so that they could understand each other without the need of talking.

But this is pointless, since although people can understand each other, they will still have different desires, and thus the conflict will be present.



Madara's solution: Infinite Tsukuyomi
Why is it the best solution?​



By creating one reality to each particular person, everyone will be as happy as possible since:

-The desires of one individual will not interfere with those of another.

-It will be an infinite happiness; one as good as one can imagine.



It is a true happiness
Very often I hear arguments such as: it is a fake happiness; or: it is a fake reality; or: it is an illusion. But that is completely untrue. I will explain why.​



Actually, what is an illusion is the belief that the extended substance (which is usually called reallity) exists.

We humans, starting from what we sense, reach the not necessary (there is no need for it to be such way) abstraction of the existance of the extension. I.e: we think that in order to see, hear, touch... something, there is the need for something extended (we usually say material) to lie yonder.

But, as I said before, this abstraction is not necessary, so there is no reason to think this way.

Therefore, the misnamed "real" world, is not more "real" than the Infinite Tsukuyomi's world.





Thank you for reading, and please, share your thoughts if you want :happy:

:bye:
 

Blackdeath667

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its the closes thing topeace...without the zetsu part lol


if people were in that situation no matter how much they want to deny it they would accept and enjoy that FAKE peace as they call it
 

lordmadarauchiha

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Only if the zetsu part wasn't there but I wonder if he could stop it?
 

Opiuchus05

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Naruto doesn't want the people close to him that died to be replace by fake people in a genjutsu
 

Eternal Mangekyo Sojobo

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Nice thread . Yes , Madara wasnt evil and beside the white zetsu part , though its something he did not know , IT is the best solution for peace yet .
 

johnny335704

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It is really difficult to obtain real peace that too with millions of people existing. Either they all needs to be supressed or all should be completely free but still the problem will always exist.
 

Angelic.

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just as tobi said truth can only be found when individuality is tossed aside.

we all live in illusions anyway.

madaras statement of man contradicts himself while wanting peace but searching for war describes madara too.
 

SilverfoxUchiha

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Naruto doesn't want the people close to him that died to be replace by fake people in a genjutsu

and this answer within itself explains why the Infinite Tsukuyomi theory is flawed. As long as there is one who would not want Infinite Tsukuyomi then that would mean there would be a minority/majority of people whose 'happiness' would have been neglected and there decreased.

OP: However, this is still a great thread. Well done!
 
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and this answer within itself explains why the Infinite Tsukuyomi theory is flawed. As long as there is one who would not want Infinite Tsukuyomi then that would mean there would be a minority/majority of people whose 'happiness' would have been neglected and there decreased.

OP: However, this is still a great thread. Well done!

Congratulations¡ That is the point to which I wanted someone to reach.

But... there is more to that. It does not refute the Infinite Tsukuyomi, but also Naruto's way¡ And which one takes preference? Well... it is a paradox (a logical contradiction)e Infinite Tsukuyomi an option, so that each particular person can choose between it or the material world. And even so, this would not be perfect since there might be certain ones who do not want either.


I had already realised that, but I didn't want the thread to be needlessly long.
 
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Djokovic

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As long as people dont realise its "fakë" what does it really matter? lol

Madara> Kaguya
 
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