Temari and Danzo vs 3rd Raikage

[lanakui8]

FRS as an example to prove that Raikage's RNY isn't the main source of his durability (his actual body is what's durable). RNY is not especially durable at all in front of fuuton techniques. FRS didn't do much harm to the Raikage after it exploded, but it cut through the lightning cloak like butter without even exploding. Your Kakashi example fails because Kakashi didn't actually touch the V2 Jin with Raikiri, he dodged [

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].

Sure Sandaime's body was what's extremely durable, but the raiton shield massively amplifies that durability. That's why Ei makes such a statement

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, yet can

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The raiton shield is a durability enhancer, it's not an actual boundary that the technique has to go through first in order to hit the user. We know this because there are tons of instances when

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I don't understand how your scan is even relevant to the scan i've posted since in the page before, we literally see kakashi's raikiri make contact with the bijuu. The scan you've posted is of a second raikiri stab from kakashi, which was dodged.

Nope, he used fuuton and it was

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. The fact that there were three slashes doesn't change much, not seeing how using it 3 times would change the outcome from being tanked by skeletal Susanoo to ripping through a V3 Susanoo. Baku's suction is what increase its power so much. Both Raikages use the same raiton cloak except Ay has V2 mode whereas Raikage doesn't. Chidori cut through RNY meaning a powerful fuuton suction (raiton's natural weakness) would blow it off.

This perfectly illustrates my point. Reread the scan you've just posted. There's we don't even see skeletal susanoo after the hit, so how can you even say that the fuuton didn't do any damage to the susanoo if we aren't shown susanoo after the hit? The only thing we can conclude from it is that the fuuton wasn't enough to get through skeletal susanoo and hit sasuke.

Then there's the claim that Ei has "V2" and Sandaime doesn't. i don't even know how you can make that claim. "V2 Ei" is a fan term for Ei amping his RnY to its maximum, indicated by his hair standing up. Why is Sandaime raikage's cloak equal to Ei's cloak when Ei's is not at its maximum? The only reason Ei doesn't go max all the time is because of chakra and only wanting to stop his opponent, Sandaime raikage especially as an edo does not have a chakra problem or lack of killing intent, he has no reason to hold back the power of his cloak.

Completely wrong, it's suction was so powerful that Susanoo

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. Its suction increased fuuton to where it was tanked by a V2 to the point where fuuton tore through a V3. Don't know where you're getting Baku's suction is weak from.

who said the 'suction' is weak? As far as suction goes, it's very powerful, it was strong enough to rip trees and rocks, however that has nothing to do with it being powerful enough to blow off sandaime raikage's cloak. If that's all that was needed to remove his cloak, the shockwaves produced from paper bombs exploding would remove his cloak since they're strong enough to actually damage things.

No it's not like Sasuke could have broken that seal with willpower at any time. He was struggling and

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it. He only overcame it with willpower after he went

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because of his hatred.

-Danzo starts trash talking Itachi [

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]
-Memories of Itachi flood Sasuke's mind [

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]
-Overcomes seal [

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]
-Unlocks new level of Susanoo
-Karin notes that Sasuke's chakra is completely different than before
-Obito states that Sasuke broke the seal because his hatred had matured and his body reacted to it [

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]

So no, it was only at that specific moment that Sasuke was able to overcome the seal because his hatred matured. So let me correct myself, technically it wasn't willpower, it was hatred. Raikage can't break the seal at any time just by having a strong will.

Wait, so now you're saying that you can only break danzou's seal with intense hatred? So if danzou used the seal on someone like naruto, current sasuke, hashirama, pretty much any of the good guys, it's gg because they don't have enough hatred?

cmon now, lets not dance around the issue, what exactly are the requirements to break danzou's seal, and why would sandaime raikage not meet those requirements?

1) You attributed Temari's success to knocking back the Raikage to the fact that she had assistance, so I stated that she has stronger attacks with a wider range so she can replicate the feat on her own. Stronger attack = raikage still gets knocked back. Wider range = Raikage can't evade.
2) I didn't have to say that in my earlier statement. As long as it's feasible, it works. Once Raikage realizes Danzo is immortal he'll go for Temari, and Danzo can respawn next to her to provide assistance.

1) wait, you're saying that temari, by herself has an attack that's both more powerful AND has a wider range than the cast net that was powered up by two other fuuton users? If so, based on what? Then there's the fact that she only managed to hit base sandaime raikage, how is she going to hit him while he's enhanced by RnY?
2) You most definitely do have to at least imply that your talking about Temari w/ danzou's assistance when you make a statement about temari's ability to combat sandaime with her jutsu as danzou's assistance is a heavy factor and thus can't be left out.

How was he in an awkward position, and how is it even relevant if he was? How does the fact that he'd be running at Temari change anything? RNY doesn't change much, even if it makes him faster and more durable, it doesn't make him heavier so he'd still be blown backwards. With Danzo being there as well, this isn't up to debate as his fuuton was even

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which has much more mass than the Raikage.

Sandaime raikage's right knee is almost down on the ground, his right arm is almost touching the ground, his left leg is bent at a 90 degree angle. His position is that of a person who's getting up from a kneeling position, and that's a terrible stance to be in when trying to dodge an attack.

Lets walk through this. Temari's fuuton knocks him back less than 10 meters while he has no motion. If he's running at her, the fuuton will have to hit him with enough force to equal his forward momentum + the force it hit him when he was standing still in order to send him the same distance as it did in canon. That's why he just runs through it.

Susanoo might be more massive than the raikage, but it has much more surface area as well, and the amount of energy that the wind from the suction transfers to the body is based on the surface area that's exposed to it. So susanoo being more massive is irrelevant unless susanoo is lb for lb the same as RnY sandaime raikage which it in no way is.

Fuuton doesn't damage people =/= fuuton is weak. Armour didn't protect the Raikage from FRS, it was because of Raikage's durability that he tanked. Not seeing what's so special about RNY that it can't be removed by a powerful fuuton suction. Even if it doesn't remove his armour, Temari or Danzo's fuuton enhanced by Baku's suction most definitely will.

Fuuton not damaging people most definitely = fuuton is lb for lb weak in respects to fuutons that are powerful enough to damage people, and that's what you'd have to be gauging this by since your arguing that this fuuton would affect a human-sized target in a certain way.

The armor HAD to have protected him from FRS as he suffered far less injury from FRS than cast net, which makes temari being completely blow away at the power of FRS, all of FRS's feats and hype, and the fact the title of the chapter that hyped sandaime's durability: "the rasenshuriken's limit" completely nonsensical, because not only would temari's previous jutsu have been much stronger than the rasenshuriken, but she'd also have a jutsu that's even stronger (kiri kiri no mai).

If Danzou produced a fuuton that, amplified by baku's suction, can oneshot the guy who's called "the strongest shield" and is on a totally different level of power than FRS, it would have been given even more hype than FRS, yet no one even comments on its power.

Been over 'what's so special' about RnY.

 

[Unorthodox]

dam beans they lit you up

 

[Beans2]

dam beans they lit you up

Whats this pose to mean

 

[Beans2]

Sure Sandaime's body was what's extremely durable, but the raiton shield massively amplifies that durability. That's why Ei makes such a statement

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, yet can

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The raiton shield is a durability enhancer, it's not an actual boundary that the technique has to go through first in order to hit the user. We know this because there are tons of instances when

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I don't understand how your scan is even relevant to the scan i've posted since in the page before, we literally see kakashi's raikiri make contact with the bijuu. The scan you've posted is of a second raikiri stab from kakashi, which was dodged.

Yep, I can agree with this.

This perfectly illustrates my point. Reread the scan you've just posted. There's we don't even see skeletal susanoo after the hit, so how can you even say that the fuuton didn't do any damage to the susanoo if we aren't shown susanoo after the hit? The only thing we can conclude from it is that the fuuton wasn't enough to get through skeletal susanoo and hit sasuke.

Sasuke's Susanoo was intact enough for him to ignore the effects of the fuuton and smash Danzo with its arm. Really don't see how you can claim anything other than Susanoo tanked that attack. Susanoo didnt show damage = Susanoo didnt take damage unless proven otherwise, when we consider that none of Danzo's fuuton were damaging Susanoo until he enhanced them with Baku. Danzo made specific note that Baku's suction would increase his power, which implies that Danzo knew his attacks alone weren't enough.

Then there's the claim that Ei has "V2" and Sandaime doesn't. i don't even know how you can make that claim. "V2 Ei" is a fan term for Ei amping his RnY to its maximum, indicated by his hair standing up. Why is Sandaime raikage's cloak equal to Ei's cloak when Ei's is not at its maximum? The only reason Ei doesn't go max all the time is because of chakra and only wanting to stop his opponent, Sandaime raikage especially as an edo does not have a chakra problem or lack of killing intent, he has no reason to hold back the power of his cloak.

Sandaime Raikage doesn't have V2 because he didn't show it. Bold just proves my point, he never used it in battle against Naruto when it would have been useful, nor did Kabuto make him use V2 when he was trying to capture Naruto with that edo.

who said the 'suction' is weak? As far as suction goes, it's very powerful, it was strong enough to rip trees and rocks, however that has nothing to do with it being powerful enough to blow off sandaime raikage's cloak. If that's all that was needed to remove his cloak, the shockwaves produced from paper bombs exploding would remove his cloak since they're strong enough to actually damage things.

You said the suction was offensively weak which isn't true. Just because it works the opposite way of most fuuton (inhaling instead of exhaling) doesn't mean it has weak offensive power. Baku has the same amount of input and output energy when

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, that it does inhaling through its mouth, but I'm sure you'd agree that if Baku blasted Raikage with the fuuton from its trunk, that it would blow off the RnY. Also why do you think it doesn't harm opponents? It's strong enough to blow of Sandaime's cloak because

1) it's fuuton and fuuton > raiton
2) it's suction was so powerful that a fuuton which couldn't do damage to a skeletal Susanoo was enhanced to where it cut through a V3 Susanoo

But like I said, if Baku suction alone isn't enough, Danzo can blow off the cloak with his Baku enhanced fuuton. Temari then finishes the Raikage with Baku enhanced Kiri Kiri no Mae.

Wait, so now you're saying that you can only break danzou's seal with intense hatred? So if danzou used the seal on someone like naruto, current sasuke, hashirama, pretty much any of the good guys, it's gg because they don't have enough hatred?

cmon now, lets not dance around the issue, what exactly are the requirements to break danzou's seal, and why would sandaime raikage not meet those requirements?

Unless you think Raikage's willpower is stronger than Sasuke's hatred was at that point in time, Raikage can't overpower the seal.

1) wait, you're saying that temari, by herself has an attack that's both more powerful AND has a wider range than the cast net that was powered up by two other fuuton users? If so, based on what? Then there's the fact that she only managed to hit base sandaime raikage, how is she going to hit him while he's enhanced by RnY?
2) You most definitely do have to at least imply that your talking about Temari w/ danzou's assistance when you make a statement about temari's ability to combat sandaime with her jutsu as danzou's assistance is a heavy factor and thus can't be left out.

Maybe she can, maybe she can't. She has a stronger jutsu with a wider attack range to increase how effective her jutsu would be at blowing back the Raikage, mentioning this since you're comparing her attack to WCN and drawing conclusions from how effective that was against Raikage. It doesn't matter if she can't do it on her own because she has Danzo as assistance instead of fodders. Sorry if I didn't mention Danzo in my first reply, I'm mentioning him now.

Sandaime raikage's right knee is almost down on the ground, his right arm is almost touching the ground, his left leg is bent at a 90 degree angle. His position is that of a person who's getting up from a kneeling position, and that's a terrible stance to be in when trying to dodge an attack.

Lets walk through this. Temari's fuuton knocks him back less than 10 meters while he has no motion. If he's running at her, the fuuton will have to hit him with enough force to equal his forward momentum + the force it hit him when he was standing still in order to send him the same distance as it did in canon. That's why he just runs through it.

Why do you think Raikage's forward momentum from him running would contain so much force? Temari doesn't even have to use the same attack on the Raikage as she can use a stronger attack to compensate for his forward momentum and in addition to that there's Danzo's fuuton which was pressuring Susanoo. If Danzo just respawns opposite of Temari and summons Baku, the suction draws in the Raikage away from Temari.

Susanoo might be more massive than the raikage, but it has much more surface area as well, and the amount of energy that the wind from the suction transfers to the body is based on the surface area that's exposed to it. So susanoo being more massive is irrelevant unless susanoo is lb for lb the same as RnY sandaime raikage which it in no way is.

Mhm, point.

Fuuton not damaging people most definitely = fuuton is lb for lb weak in respects to fuutons that are powerful enough to damage people, and that's what you'd have to be gauging this by since your arguing that this fuuton would affect a human-sized target in a certain way.

The armor HAD to have protected him from FRS as he suffered far less injury from FRS than cast net, which makes temari being completely blow away at the power of FRS, all of FRS's feats and hype, and the fact the title of the chapter that hyped sandaime's durability: "the rasenshuriken's limit" completely nonsensical, because not only would temari's previous jutsu have been much stronger than the rasenshuriken, but she'd also have a jutsu that's even stronger (kiri kiri no mai).

If Danzou produced a fuuton that, amplified by baku's suction, can oneshot the guy who's called "the strongest shield" and is on a totally different level of power than FRS, it would have been given even more hype than FRS, yet no one even comments on its power.

Been over 'what's so special' about RnY.

Why do you think Baku's suction doesn't damage people? Why is the size of the Raikage relevant when Baku suction dwarfed Susanoo as well? If suction alone isn't enough to blow off the cloak then suction coupled with Danzo's attack will because that attack has much more piercing power than FRS does prior to exploding. Agree with the stuff about the armour.

 

[KidGamer65]

Temari and Danzo win with mid difficulty while Danzo can solo with high difficulty.

Since you said KA is restricted, it means Danzo has access to his MS from the very start of the battle unlike against Sasuke so it means sharingan genjutsu will work. Landing genjutsu would require Danzo to catch the 3rd Raikage off guard similar to how Sasuke caught Shee off guard (

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)(

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) or how Madara caught Ay offguard while he was distracted by Tsunade's fight against Madara's susanoo clones.

Ok.

Sasuke's genjutsu was so potent that it knocked Shee out cold

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. Bare in mind that Shee is a genjutsu user himself, a medic and a sensor so he has all three attributes that help counter genjutsu. Madara has proven that

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and makes him

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and also makes him

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.

Danzo has shown he can use KA, the ultimate sharingan genjutsu so it is safe to say regular 3 tomoe genjutsu is something he can easily use considering he used Izanagi, a much more advanced sharingan technique.

Ok, but he'd probably just pull an Orochimaru and eventually break it himself. Danzo doesn't get other's Genjutsu feats. Itachi trapped Oro in Genjutsu, but Oro was still able to move, albeit slowly. Raikage would do the same and break out using Genjutsu Kai, since Danzo can't finish him before this happens.

With that being said, Izanagi allows Danzo to spawn where he wants when he is killed considering

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.

Ok.

Putting the two facts together, Danzo can kill himself and then spawn right in front of Temari when the 3rd Raikage tries to blitz her, catching him off guard and putting him in a genjutsu much like how Sasuke did to Shee. Next Danzo will use his

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to paralyse the 3rd Raikage even further even though he's already paralysed by the genjutsu. With that being said, he can tell Temari to run away while he himself seals the 3rd Raikage away with himself (

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)(

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). Alternatively, Danzo can summon Baku and have him swallow the 3rd Raikage up and then unsummon it, which gives team Danzo the victory via BFR (battlefield removal). Lastly, during the time the Raikage is vulnerable, Danzo can use his fuuton enhanced kunais to stab the 3rd Raikage through his eyeballs which should reach his brain and kill him. If not, a blinded Raikage will eventually falter to multiple strikes from Temari and Danzo's fuuton considering he took damage from both FRS and WCN but ended up regenerating so on an alive 3rd Raikage, the damage will eventually pile up and kill him.

This isn't happening. The time lag between Danzo's death and "revival" is so minuscule, that he would have appeared before he attempts to blitz Temari. The rest can't happen since he won't get caught in the Genjutsu. It also doesn't help Danzo that seeing 10 Sharingan on his arm will keep the Raikage on guard. So he can't land Genjutsu via this method.

 

[Icelerate]

Sure Sandaime's body was what's extremely durable, but the raiton shield massively amplifies that durability. That's why Ei makes such a statement

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, yet can

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The raiton shield is a durability enhancer, it's not an actual boundary that the technique has to go through first in order to hit the user. We know this because there are tons of instances when

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I don't understand how your scan is even relevant to the scan i've posted since in the page before, we literally see kakashi's raikiri make contact with the bijuu. The scan you've posted is of a second raikiri stab from kakashi, which was dodged.

Onoki touching Ay means he was touching whatever was on the surface of Ay's skin which was RNY. If Ay didn't have lightning armour, technically Onoki would still not be touching Ay and instead be touching his clothes. Saying RNY massively amplifies durability is wrong because that implies RNY multiplies either Raikage's durability but that is wrong. To illustrate my point look at this example, suppose if RNY has 100 J of energy of durability and the Raikage has 100 J of energy of durability, it is going to be added because you can't multiply two energies if you are adding energy from two different parts together. If RNY wasn't an actual boundary like you are saying and it was just a durability amplifier, since FRS didn't do much damage to 3rd Raikage, he would still have quite a bit of RNY on his body instead of it disappearing while his body is still intact.

The scan you posted

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actually proves my point that in order to touch Ay himself, you have to get through his RNY first much like FRS had to get through 3rd Raikage's RNY first before it could apply damage to 3rd Raikage himself.

Ay saying his durability was much larger because of RNY is irrelevant because base 3rd Raikage's durability is much superior to Ay's base durability or RNY. 3rd Raikage's RNY is no more durable than Ay's because neither the manga nor the databook differentiate between their RNY in terms of their capability. To illustrate my point, assume it takes 50 J of energy to breach base Ay and 50 J to breach raiton armour, it will take a combined 100 J of energy to breach his combined defence so it is true in Ay's case that his durability was much larger. On the other hand, if the 3rd Raikage's own body is only breached by an attack with much larger energy, say 500 J, then his RNY + his body will take 550 J to breach. The relative factor that 4th's durability increases by is much larger than what the 3rd's body's durability increases by.

BTW, after Raikage got hit by FRS, the sealing team had wrapped him up with cloth and

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that he took enough damage to seal away even though this was after WCN hit him. This implies his body was more badly damaged after getting hit by FRS than WCN inspite of RNY so your argument on RNY nullifying most of FRS's power to the extent it did less damage than WCN is wrong because he straight up took more damage to his body from FRS. The damage is less noticeable unlike WCN because FRS spreads out all over 3rd Raikage's body but the net result is that Sandaime is more badly damaged due to FRS possessing larger energy than both WCN and RNY combined.

 

[Haizaki]

How are they winning? Temari is a non factor...Baku can swallow the Raikage but the 3rd easily tears his way out. Danzo has nothing on the third.

 

[super yang]

if baku swallows you, you go back to his dimension, not his stomach.

 

[Unorthodox]

Whats this pose to mean

i mean the were jump debating you cuhz

 

[Icelerate]

Ok, but he'd probably just pull an Orochimaru and eventually break it himself. Danzo doesn't get other's Genjutsu feats. Itachi trapped Oro in Genjutsu, but Oro was still able to move, albeit slowly. Raikage would do the same and break out using Genjutsu Kai, since Danzo can't finish him before this happens.

Yes but Oro still failed due to Itachi preventing him from doing so. Danzo does the same and puts up his cursed seal on the 3rd Raikage for even more paralysis. With his body now paralysed, 3rd Raikage is forced to stare in one direction so he can be put into genjutsu once again. The suicide seal tactic will follow or Danzo guages his eyes out which takes a miniscule time compared to breaking out of genjutsu. Alternatively Baku would get summoned and the 3rd Raikage sucked up. While he is getting sucked up, he'll probably have broken both the seal and the genjutsu but that is the opportunity where Danzo and Temari attack him with full force and even if that doesn't finish him off, Danzo unsummons Baku once 3rd Raikage is inside giving them a victory through BFR.

This isn't happening. The time lag between Danzo's death and "revival" is so minuscule, that he would have appeared before he attempts to blitz Temari. The rest can't happen since he won't get caught in the Genjutsu. It also doesn't help Danzo that seeing 10 Sharingan on his arm will keep the Raikage on guard. So he can't land Genjutsu via this method.

The bold actually supports my point as Danzo can choose to kill himself later on so that he immediately revives when the moment is right. Of course he's getting caught in the genjutsu, he isn't intelligent enough not to get outsmarted and Danzo appearing right in front of him will catch him by surprise much like Shee and Ay who kept themselves on guard but got caught off guard.