Teh Biggest Byakugan Kestion in teh Boruto Manga...

wanderingcactus

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Manga evidence plz..
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Nothing shown.. Probably the same as Tenseigan Toneri but more since Toneri's Tenseigan isn't complete (unsure which one is his latent ability and which one is Tenseigan ~ he is probably like Sasuke at this point. He can use his own abilities and a little bit of the Tenseigan is IMO)

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PRETTY SIMILAR, NO?

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This states that Senjus are a distant blood relatives of the Uzumakis. Some translation even states distant cousins. Pick whichever you want.

Hagoromo and Hamura (brothers)
Senju + Uchiha and Hyuga + Uzumaki (cousins)

Now, wait a minute! How about Nagato Uzumaki? He is an Uzumaki but he is also a Senju. Which means that either Senjus are the main fam and Uzumaki branched off or vice versa, right? Sure! If it was stated that way. Otherwise that Nagato's mother might have been a Senju (since he took the Uzumaki surname).

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Plus there is no real validity that Nagato is a Senju in the first place. Only that Black+White Zetsu saying that he is a Senju because he can summon the Gedo Mazou.

Hamura has the Gedo Mazou. He and his lineage is also capable of doing that. Possibly summoning the tailed beasts as well.

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Hinata is also referenced as Princess Byakugan.
Hanabi had her eyes stolen.
Neji and the rest of the branch's family have seals to prevent their eyes from being stolen.

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MIA/KIA... duh
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In conclusion: The Otsutsuki travel in pairs. Pairs being one with Yin affinity and the other, Yang affinity. Each one can awaken the 3rd eye (probably by eating the partner as shown by Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Further proof is that Kinshiki noted that his predecessor had done so. Kaguya awakened hers and her partner, Isshiki, is looking to be revived)

Before we go to the next generation: Kaguya had been split into 2 entities when sealed. Her chakra turned into the chakra (Yin) beast known as Juubi. Her body (Yang) turned into a vessel known as Gedo Mazou. She created her Karma in the form of Black Zetsu (possibly injecting it on a white Zetsu and it took it over) Either that or because Madara put it into a White Zetsu.
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Next gen: Hagoromo and Hamura. They are the split version of Kaguya. They carry their reverse affinity seal. Hagoromo (yin) has the sun. Hamura (yang) has the moon. They took their respective affinities from their sealed mother. Hagromo (yin) took her chakra (yin) which turned into Juubi. Hamura (yang) took her vessel (yang) which turned into Gedo Mazou.

Next gen:
Indra + Asura (yin: Hagoromo). They fought over the chakra beast and who gets to teach ninshu. Their fights resonate throughout time. "Hyuga" and "Uzumaki" went to war with one another over the fate of Earth. Their fights, too, resonated throughout time.

Next gen: It cycled from era to era until Madara and Hashirama. It was broken during that era.
One having awakened the Rinnegan. The other, having no more lineage to continue on.

Next gen: Pseudo transmigrants. Because of the events of the last era, there were no clear conclusion of resolution between the 2 brothers. Their souls went to The Last Uchiha and the closest Yang relative with Yin affinity: Naruto Uzumaki (yang) and Kurama (yin since he is pure chakra derived from juubi).

Next gen: Boruto, Sarada, and hybrid of the Senju and Uzumaki: Nagato Mitsuki

Now: Senju (Sage Mode) + Uzumaki (Chakra Mode) = Mitsuki and Naruto.
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His skin isn't covered in chakra nor is his eyes with Sage eye liner. His pupil though is still frog for some reason (since he learnt frog sage mode but he is using 6 paths mode here? I don't get it either)


Byakugan with Hashirama cells?

Probably nothing.

Hashi (Yin-Yang) + Hanabi (Yang-Yin)..

Jougan is probably like Mangekyu TBH... It is just that since Part 1 transitioned from Neji to Sasuke, the Byakugan really was left behind in terms of development.

A lot of materials that are based on the Yang were provided by the last 2 movies (The Last and Boruto: The Movie) and the next gen manga: Boruto.

So there are a lot of connecting the dots and parallels. Since they aren't in manga form and those that are, aren't Kishi's writing, many would just claim "ooooo~ that's not canon!"

I mean I had a huge argument with someone that called my theory of Uzumaki not being Senju bloodline just because of a panel stating Nagato is BOTH Uzumaki and Senju... Completely neglecting the fact that there is something called parents and they can come from other clans.

He's an idiot. A lot of parallels that explicitly say this and that. For example: The Last movie says: "What if the Yang were the ones that went for power?" Which is why Hanabi's eyes were stolen. Instead of the Bijuu hunt, it's eye hunt. Then the one that was doing the hunt was the Yang part, which surprisingly had so much in common with Naruto's abilities (not his 6 Paths).

Further backing the idea of Uzumaki being related to Hamura than Hagoromo more.
 
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Based on the fact that it doesn't awaken (like Sharingan and Super Senju-jin mode) but rather is born complete, the Byakugan eye doesn't/shouldn't grow into stronger forms via blood-mixing.

Kaguya herself had the Byakugan so I really don't know what's up with the Tenseigan, but the fact that she had it is proof that its complete.

As for your question, I suppose they'd just gain stronger bodies and maybe be able to cast techniques on any spot within their field of vision.


I has teh eye of teh kumoi i cee everyting.
Your sig . . . :confused:

Kids shouldn't be fighting like that
 

wanderingcactus

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Based on the fact that it doesn't awaken (like Sharingan and Super Senju-jin mode) but rather is born complete, the Byakugan eye doesn't/shouldn't grow into stronger forms via blood-mixing.

Kaguya herself had the Byakugan so I really don't know what's up with the Tenseigan, but the fact that she had it is proof that its complete.

As for your question, I suppose they'd just gain stronger bodies and maybe be able to cast techniques on any spot within their field of vision.



Your sig . . . :confused:

Kids shouldn't be fighting like that

Yeah because Kishi kind of suck at scaling everyone up (even behind the scenes), this is the state that the whole world building is in.

I believe that the Byakugan can also evolve, much like its Sharingan counterpart. I mean it was just heavily focused on the sharingan and everyone and everything else was just kind of forgotten.

I mean even Naruto was just meh for the entire time. He was sitting on trying to master his Rasengan and Sage Mode.
All the while we had so much development happening with the Uchihas.

We got the Sharingan (copy cat) having Izanagi on top of it then having Izanami apparently. Then it evolves into a Mangekyu. Which has not 1, not 2, but 3 techs. 1 being the right eye tech, the other is the left, the last is a combination of both. Not that I don't mind it.

But now, because there are so much tech involved with the Sharingan that any other doujutsus are left with nothing. I mean Sharingan is only suppose to copy or mirror stuff.

That was on par with Byakugan which can see everything.

Then you put izanami and izanagi on top. What is the byakugan hidden techs? Nothing.
Then you get Mangekyu. 3 abilities. Jougan? Dimensional sight, at least in the anime.. It doesn't do anything yet with the manga.

At the very least we had the Sage Mode and Chakra Mode scaling with one another.
 

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Yeah because Kishi kind of suck at scaling everyone up (even behind the scenes), this is the state that the whole world building is in.

I believe that the Byakugan can also evolve, much like its Sharingan counterpart. I mean it was just heavily focused on the sharingan and everyone and everything else was just kind of forgotten.

I mean even Naruto was just meh for the entire time. He was sitting on trying to master his Rasengan and Sage Mode.
All the while we had so much development happening with the Uchihas.

We got the Sharingan (copy cat) having Izanagi on top of it then having Izanami apparently. Then it evolves into a Mangekyu. Which has not 1, not 2, but 3 techs. 1 being the right eye tech, the other is the left, the last is a combination of both. Not that I don't mind it.

But now, because there are so much tech involved with the Sharingan that any other doujutsus are left with nothing. I mean Sharingan is the suppose to copy or mirror stuff.

That was on par with Byakugan which can see everything.

Then you put izanami and izanagi on top. What is the byakugan hidden techs? Nothing.
Then you get Mangekyu. 3 abilities. Jougan? Dimensional sight, at least in the anime.. It doesn't do anything yet with the manga.

At the very least we had the Sage Mode and Chakra Mode scaling with one another.
I certainly understand why you feel as you do, but the Byakugan doesn't really need application.

Its like the arguement of stats vs hax.
Hax comes up with new tricks all the time, stats just grow more and more.
Sharingan is implied from part 1 to be a hax eye while Byakugan is a stats eye (you have to train to get faster). For example, SS Goku can't do anything with Sharingan because at his level, genjutsu is worthless and black flames get blasted away. But with Byakugan, he can see all round and that is always useful.

As hidden techniques, Byakugan had those from part 1.
Sharingan gets Iza double, Byakugan gets Gentle Fist. Notice that both these techs are not coming with the eyes, but having the eyes helps to unlock them, but technically they are possible even without eyes (like, Tsunade punches are very similar to Air Palm).

So its like, the Sharingan is like Animal Path with all its variety while Byakugan is like Rashōmon with its growth capability. Byakugan simply looks bad because its power depends on the level of the usee, similar to Rashōmon. For example, remember how Neji could do Rotations to block Ten Tails branch and Hinata could extend range of Mind Transfer by many kilometres. Imagine if those two got Uchiha plot relevance and became super strong . . Neji could defeat entire villages with Super Air Palm!

Like I said, I get where you're coming from and agree that the Uchiha got too much plot boosts, but maybe part of it is because the Byakugan itself was made too powerful in part 1?
 
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Nothing shown.. Probably the same as Tenseigan Toneri but more since Toneri's Tenseigan isn't complete (unsure which one is his latent ability and which one is Tenseigan ~ he is probably like Sasuke at this point. He can use his own abilities and a little bit of the Tenseigan is IMO)

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PRETTY SIMILAR, NO?

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This states that Senjus are a distant blood relatives of the Uzumakis. Some translation even states distant cousins. Pick whichever you want.

Hagoromo and Hamura (brothers)
Senju + Uchiha and Hyuga + Uzumaki (cousins)

Now, wait a minute! How about Nagato Uzumaki? He is an Uzumaki but he is also a Senju. Which means that either Senjus are the main fam and Uzumaki branched off or vice versa, right? Sure! If it was stated that way. Otherwise that Nagato's mother might have been a Senju (since he took the Uzumaki surname).

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Plus there is no real validity that Nagato is a Senju in the first place. Only that Black+White Zetsu saying that he is a Senju because he can summon the Gedo Mazou.

Hamura has the Gedo Mazou. He and his lineage is also capable of doing that. Possibly summoning the tailed beasts as well.

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Hinata is also referenced as Princess Byakugan.
Hanabi had her eyes stolen.
Neji and the rest of the branch's family have seals to prevent their eyes from being stolen.

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MIA/KIA... duh
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In conclusion: The Otsutsuki travel in pairs. Pairs being one with Yin affinity and the other, Yang affinity. Each one can awaken the 3rd eye (probably by eating the partner as shown by Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Further proof is that Kinshiki noted that his predecessor had done so. Kaguya awakened hers and her partner, Isshiki, is looking to be revived)

Before we go to the next generation: Kaguya had been split into 2 entities when sealed. Her chakra turned into the chakra (Yin) beast known as Juubi. Her body (Yang) turned into a vessel known as Gedo Mazou. She created her Karma in the form of Black Zetsu (possibly injecting it on a white Zetsu and it took it over) Either that or because Madara put it into a White Zetsu.
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Next gen: Hagoromo and Hamura. They are the split version of Kaguya. They carry their reverse affinity seal. Hagoromo (yin) has the sun. Hamura (yang) has the moon. They took their respective affinities from their sealed mother. Hagromo (yin) took her chakra (yin) which turned into Juubi. Hamura (yang) took her vessel (yang) which turned into Gedo Mazou.

Next gen:
Indra + Asura (yin: Hagoromo). They fought over the chakra beast and who gets to teach ninshu. Their fights resonate throughout time. "Hyuga" and "Uzumaki" went to war with one another over the fate of Earth. Their fights, too, resonated throughout time.

Next gen: It cycled from era to era until Madara and Hashirama. It was broken during that era.
One having awakened the Rinnegan. The other, having no more lineage to continue on.

Next gen: Pseudo transmigrants. Because of the events of the last era, there were no clear conclusion of resolution between the 2 brothers. Their souls went to The Last Uchiha and the closest Yang relative with Yin affinity: Naruto Uzumaki (yang) and Kurama (yin since he is pure chakra derived from juubi).

Next gen: Boruto, Sarada, and hybrid of the Senju and Uzumaki: Nagato Mitsuki

Now: Senju (Sage Mode) + Uzumaki (Chakra Mode) = Mitsuki and Naruto.
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His skin isn't covered in chakra nor is his eyes with Sage eye liner. His pupil though is still frog for some reason (since he learnt frog sage mode but he is using 6 paths mode here? I don't get it either)


Byakugan with Hashirama cells?

Probably nothing.

Hashi (Yin-Yang) + Hanabi (Yang-Yin)..

Jougan is probably like Mangekyu TBH... It is just that since Part 1 transitioned from Neji to Sasuke, the Byakugan really was left behind in terms of development.

A lot of materials that are based on the Yang were provided by the last 2 movies (The Last and Boruto: The Movie) and the next gen manga: Boruto.

So there are a lot of connecting the dots and parallels. Since they aren't in manga form and those that are, aren't Kishi's writing, many would just claim "ooooo~ that's not canon!"

I mean I had a huge argument with someone that called my theory of Uzumaki not being Senju bloodline just because of a panel stating Nagato is BOTH Uzumaki and Senju... Completely neglecting the fact that there is something called parents and they can come from other clans.

He's an idiot. A lot of parallels that explicitly say this and that. For example: The Last movie says: "What if the Yang were the ones that went for power?" Which is why Hanabi's eyes were stolen. Instead of the Bijuu hunt, it's eye hunt. Then the one that was doing the hunt was the Yang part, which surprisingly had so much in common with Naruto's abilities (not his 6 Paths).

Further backing the idea of Uzumaki being related to Hamura than Hagoromo more.
stop cheating in debates...it's unacceptable behavor..
 

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Nothing shown.. Probably the same as Tenseigan Toneri but more since Toneri's Tenseigan isn't complete (unsure which one is his latent ability and which one is Tenseigan ~ he is probably like Sasuke at this point. He can use his own abilities and a little bit of the Tenseigan is IMO)

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PRETTY SIMILAR, NO?

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This states that Senjus are a distant blood relatives of the Uzumakis. Some translation even states distant cousins. Pick whichever you want.

Hagoromo and Hamura (brothers)
Senju + Uchiha and Hyuga + Uzumaki (cousins)

Now, wait a minute! How about Nagato Uzumaki? He is an Uzumaki but he is also a Senju. Which means that either Senjus are the main fam and Uzumaki branched off or vice versa, right? Sure! If it was stated that way. Otherwise that Nagato's mother might have been a Senju (since he took the Uzumaki surname).

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Plus there is no real validity that Nagato is a Senju in the first place. Only that Black+White Zetsu saying that he is a Senju because he can summon the Gedo Mazou.

Hamura has the Gedo Mazou. He and his lineage is also capable of doing that. Possibly summoning the tailed beasts as well.

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Hinata is also referenced as Princess Byakugan.
Hanabi had her eyes stolen.
Neji and the rest of the branch's family have seals to prevent their eyes from being stolen.

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You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

MIA/KIA... duh
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In conclusion: The Otsutsuki travel in pairs. Pairs being one with Yin affinity and the other, Yang affinity. Each one can awaken the 3rd eye (probably by eating the partner as shown by Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Further proof is that Kinshiki noted that his predecessor had done so. Kaguya awakened hers and her partner, Isshiki, is looking to be revived)

Before we go to the next generation: Kaguya had been split into 2 entities when sealed. Her chakra turned into the chakra (Yin) beast known as Juubi. Her body (Yang) turned into a vessel known as Gedo Mazou. She created her Karma in the form of Black Zetsu (possibly injecting it on a white Zetsu and it took it over) Either that or because Madara put it into a White Zetsu.
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Next gen: Hagoromo and Hamura. They are the split version of Kaguya. They carry their reverse affinity seal. Hagoromo (yin) has the sun. Hamura (yang) has the moon. They took their respective affinities from their sealed mother. Hagromo (yin) took her chakra (yin) which turned into Juubi. Hamura (yang) took her vessel (yang) which turned into Gedo Mazou.

Next gen:
Indra + Asura (yin: Hagoromo). They fought over the chakra beast and who gets to teach ninshu. Their fights resonate throughout time. "Hyuga" and "Uzumaki" went to war with one another over the fate of Earth. Their fights, too, resonated throughout time.

Next gen: It cycled from era to era until Madara and Hashirama. It was broken during that era.
One having awakened the Rinnegan. The other, having no more lineage to continue on.

Next gen: Pseudo transmigrants. Because of the events of the last era, there were no clear conclusion of resolution between the 2 brothers. Their souls went to The Last Uchiha and the closest Yang relative with Yin affinity: Naruto Uzumaki (yang) and Kurama (yin since he is pure chakra derived from juubi).

Next gen: Boruto, Sarada, and hybrid of the Senju and Uzumaki: Nagato Mitsuki

Now: Senju (Sage Mode) + Uzumaki (Chakra Mode) = Mitsuki and Naruto.
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His skin isn't covered in chakra nor is his eyes with Sage eye liner. His pupil though is still frog for some reason (since he learnt frog sage mode but he is using 6 paths mode here? I don't get it either)


Byakugan with Hashirama cells?

Probably nothing.

Hashi (Yin-Yang) + Hanabi (Yang-Yin)..

Jougan is probably like Mangekyu TBH... It is just that since Part 1 transitioned from Neji to Sasuke, the Byakugan really was left behind in terms of development.

A lot of materials that are based on the Yang were provided by the last 2 movies (The Last and Boruto: The Movie) and the next gen manga: Boruto.

So there are a lot of connecting the dots and parallels. Since they aren't in manga form and those that are, aren't Kishi's writing, many would just claim "ooooo~ that's not canon!"

I mean I had a huge argument with someone that called my theory of Uzumaki not being Senju bloodline just because of a panel stating Nagato is BOTH Uzumaki and Senju... Completely neglecting the fact that there is something called parents and they can come from other clans.

He's an idiot. A lot of parallels that explicitly say this and that. For example: The Last movie says: "What if the Yang were the ones that went for power?" Which is why Hanabi's eyes were stolen. Instead of the Bijuu hunt, it's eye hunt. Then the one that was doing the hunt was the Yang part, which surprisingly had so much in common with Naruto's abilities (not his 6 Paths).

Further backing the idea of Uzumaki being related to Hamura than Hagoromo more.
Anything sought out for its own sake is a great corruption, seeking to seek leads to great destruction

Anything!
 

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I certainly understand why you feel as you do, but tye Byakugan doesn't really need application.

Its like the arguement of stats vs hax.
Hax comes up with new tricks all the time, stats just grow more and more.
Sharingan is implied from part 1 to be a hax eye while Byakugan is a stats eye (you have to train to get faster). For example, SS Goku can't do anything with Sharingan because at his level, genjutsu is worthless and black flames get blasted away. But with Byakugan, he can see all round and that is always useful.

As hidden techniques, Byakugan had those from part 1.
Sharingan gets Iza double, Byakugan gets Gentle Fist. Notice that both these techs are not coming with the eyes, but having the eyes helps to unlock them, but technically they are possible even without eyes (like, Tsunade punches are very similar to Air Palm).

So its like, the Sharingan is like Animal Path with all its variety while Byakugan is like Rashōmon with its growth capability. Byakugan simply looks bad because its power depends on the level of the usee, similar to Rashōmon. For example, remember how Neji could do Rotations to block Ten Tails branch and Hinata could extend range of Mind Transfer by many kilometres. Imagine if those two got Uchiha plot relevance and became super strong . . Neji could defeat entire villages with Super Air Palm!

Like I said, I get where you're coming from and agree that the Uchiha got too much plot boosts, but maybe part of it is because the Byakugan itself was made too powerful in part 1?
That is actually a great point. It also fits into the plot of the Yang having to grow into power rather than just start with power. The Indra, Asura trope where the eldest is talented and the youngest is hard working.

While I agree with the sharingan and can settle with the byakugan techs. I do often wonder about the mangekyu and the jougan.
It is true that there is not much known about the Jougan as of yet, so I am curious as to what possible power can be gained with that.

It would be rather bland and lazy if all it did is power up the already existing tech. Like gentle fist to lion fist to vacuum god fist.

I'd say that that is on the power scaling of the different phases of Susanoo (skeleton, armoured, perfect) but it is still lacking the versatility like the individual left and right eye techs. Since they are both doujutsus, wouldn't it make sense that Jougan should get some more techs as well?

I mean I know that it is Yang but it is still a doujutsu. Yang role falls on the SM and CM anyways and those are pretty static. The only thing that changes about them is their power scaling. No new abilities are present.

Basically doujutsu is meant to be versatile while the body is meant to be overpowering. (like Gai's Night Gai. It is simply just normal taijutsu but brokenly powerful).
 

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That is actually a great point. It also fits into the plot of the Yang having to grow into power rather than just start with power. The Indra, Asura trope where the eldest is talented and the youngest is hard working.

While I agree with the sharingan and can settle with the byakugan techs. I do often wonder about the mangekyu and the jougan.
It is true that there is not much known about the Jougan as of yet, so I am curious as to what possible power can be gained with that.

It would be rather bland and lazy if all it did is power up the already existing tech. Like gentle fist to lion fist to vacuum god fist.

I'd say that that is on the power scaling of the different phases of Susanoo (skeleton, armoured, perfect) but it is still lacking the versatility like the individual left and right eye techs. Since they are both doujutsus, wouldn't it make sense that Jougan should get some more techs as well?

I mean I know that it is Yang but it is still a doujutsu. Yang role falls on the SM and CM anyways and those are pretty static. The only thing that changes about them is their power scaling. No new abilities are present.

Basically doujutsu is meant to be versatile while the body is meant to be overpowering. (like Gai's Night Gai. It is simply just normal taijutsu but brokenly powerful).
Byakugan is already just a basic power that scales up, so it wouldn't be much different.

Let's wait and see
 

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Byakugan is already just a basic power that scales up, so it wouldn't be much different.

Let's wait and see
well, that is what I was saying. If it hadn't been neglected, I wonder if it would've developed into something more.
I mean, even without Jougan (which is strictly Boruto only manga and not tied with Kishimoto unless they discussed it), there were plans of making it evolve into something else. Which is why we got the Tenseigan in The Last.

Since Kishi uses a lot of symbolism in his work, I don't think he will let the Byakugan stay as it is (if he actually develops it instead of ikemoto/kodachi).

For example, Yin and Yang and duality are strong in his later work (Part 2 or is it 3? whichever one is solely based on the god arcs). Yin seals are on the foreheads while the Yang is the stomach/heart (excluding the moon and sun seals since that was a homage to Berserk).
The one eye and missing left arm is a Guts reference. That's why Obito or Sasuke or Madara or Kakashi were missing an eye or have half of their side wrecked/killed off. Naruto was a anti-Guts. His right arm is missing but fixed. He is also in a way Guts because of his vigor and "wolf" which is in this case demon fox filled with hatred.

Also Curse Mark = Brand of sacrifice
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I've already stated most of the yin yang symbols above. But wait there's more!


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I think that since it is a doujutsu, it will gain techs. The eyes tend to get powerups while the body gets power boosts/levels.
 
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