Team Minato vs Team 7

[Brooks]

How is this even debatable again?

Team 7 stomps...

Also, some of the members on this base should stop posting(anything in general).​

 

[ARGUS]

Since when is Sasuke(or his Susanoo) any faster? Kakashi is the one who blitzed Kaguya, not Sasuke(who was blitzed). Kakashi's PS is the one that managed to outspeed Kaguya's chakra arms not Sasuke's,

Kakashi blitzing kaguya is a huge misconception,

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but just didnt bother evading his attack, which she is more than capable of doing through her inter-dimensional teleportation
notice the bottom panel and you will see that kaguya and even BZ kept track of kamui raikiri,

and as for Sasukes PS, he didnt even form his PS, so how does that imply that kakashis PS outspeed sasukes???

Kakashi's PS is the one that managed to outspeed Sasuke's S/T jutsu. If anything going by feats, Kakashi will blitz Sasuke, not the contrary

Please tell me you are joking because this is just ridiculous,
Sasuke didnt even use his S/T jutsu, so how the hell does it imply that something like PS would outspeed

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thats just wrong and doesnt make any sense at all

Kakashis PS being faster than Sasukes S/T is like saying, that base narutos shunshin is superior to FTG in speed

It stays as long as Obito wants. It doesn't have a definite minute. As long as the enemy is there, Obito's chakra will remain to help Kakashi defeating the enemy. And just no, BM Minato just shared part of Kyubi's chakra to the entire alliance in this war. Hinata clearly stated the chakra cloak weren't just made of Naruto's+yang Kurama's chakra. Not to mention the ability to share chakra actually comes from Minato

@Bold - where did you get this assumption,
and kakashi is not doing much here, naruto creates 6 BDRS and busts his PS with ease, allowing sasuke or his clones to gangbang kakashi, so him having a time limit has no effect when he doesnt stand much of a chance,

Minato is not even worth mentioning, 2 RSM clones would be enough to wreck him,

Why do people keep saying this match isn't balanced? ,is that a continuation of overrating naruto and sasuke ?
DMS kakashi is enough to fight sasuke and even beat him high diff not to mention that minato probably can lend kakashi chakra cloack ,then it would be even easier
Jiubiobito with BM minato can potentially beat naruto

I can see why the kamui/kakashi bandwagon is sayig that he could beat sasuke, even though he gets taken out mid diff, but the bold is just nonsense

BM Minato is non factor he gets taken out by a couple of clones, why is he even mentioned here,???
whilst juubito gets wrecked by BDRS and BIjuu RS barrages,
narutos superior shunshin would also allow him to blitz both of the two, seeing how neither of them have refllexes superior to kaguyas who naruto still managed to blitz,

and in that one minute kakashi's kamui shurikens tear apart his susanoo and send him to the kamui dimension

Lol, all the kamui shurikens get intercepted by enton projectiles with utmost ease, they are not tearing apart his PS, or sasuke can simply blow them away with his PS slashes

btw since this a team fight minato can give him the chakra cloak and keep replenishing it

Minato lasting longer than a few minutes is a joke, let alone his chakra cloak doing much, seeing how kaakshi or obito would still stand no chance

in what way is he doing anything about the barrier and the juubi bomb when his guduodamas can be sent away from him

Naruto senses the kamui built up, and evades the warp through his RSM shunshin with ease, his TSB are not getting teleported,
and for obito to fire a juubidama,

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, therefore allowing naruto to intercept the TBB and wreck Obito through BDRS and Bijuu RS

the barrier gets taken out by chakra arms and BDRS with ease, as naruto can just fire his 6 BDRS to bust the tree and the barrier,
and he also has TSB to negate the TBB from Obito, therefore they are not doing shit

 

[Omar19992010]

Naruto Solos. Adding Sasuke in just makes this a Massacre.

 

[Unorthodox]

did i just read that BM Minato has avatar equals RM Narutos? Im so doone

Sasuke solos Naruto solos come at me

 

[MickNerks]

Naruto could solo, and sasuke could solo (via solo clap)

Todays chapter confirms Sasuke is BM Naruto level, so BM Minato > BM Naruto >= Sasuke
Kakashi with kamui hax alongside Jubito defeat Naruto
Sakura is fodder anyway

That isnt BM naruto, its BSM Naruto

BM Minato < (BSM Naruto >/= Sasuke's PS)

 

[wael reda]

@Kifflom
Where is the logic in saying kaguya didn't bother evading kakashi's attack !!??,so she could have countered kakashi's attack but she preferred to be hit by kakashi 's raiki , is that even logical !!?

Kaguya and BZ looked at kakashi after he made his raiki but before using his shunshin ,that doesn't mean that they could have evaded him ,you yourself said that BZ looked at kakashi as well, doest that mean BZ could have evaded kakashi as well !!?

Where is your objectivity!!??
You said that kaguya could have evaded kakashi because she was looking at him ( before he used his shunshin),however you are the same guy who says that naruto speed blitzed kaguya and sasuke speed blitzed madara, though kaguya and BZ were looking at naruto before he used his shunshin and madara was looking at sasuke and thinking while sasuke was in the mid of his shunshin!!!

Spoiler

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Why didn't you use the same logic with naruto and sasuke !!? Or this logic is used just with kakashi to get rid of his feats !!!?


About kamui shurukins
Yes I agree that sasuke's PS can evade kakashi's kamui shurukins or block it if there is enough distance between them
But If sasuke wanted to attack kakashi's PS ,he would need to get close to kakashi's PS with his own PS in order to attack it with a direct hit ,when this happens and sasuke's PS gets closer and tries to attack kakashi's PS ,kakashi will throw sasuke's PS 's chest or stomach with one or two kamui shurukins ,sasuke won't evade that while he is going towards kakashi's PS and while they are close to each other

I will give you an example that may can help you imagine what I mean

Spoiler

look at this pic with opened eyes

Spoiler

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Now ,magine that sasuke's PS = Ay
Kakashi's PS = minato
And kamui shurukin = minato's kunai in his hand

When sasuke's PS(Ay) gets close to kakashi 's PS( minato) and tries to attack it ,kakashi will throw kamui shurukin ( minato's kunai)in sasuke's PS 's stomach or chest ,sasuke's PS will be destroyed ,and sasuke will get warped away if he is in kamui shurukins's warping range ,if he isnt then kakashi can kill him with another kamui shurukin or Ps's slash or kamui snipe as sasuke won't be able to evade this attacks while he is falling to the ground if his s/t in cool down
Did you get it!!??
At close compact between sasuke's PS and kakashi's PS ,kamui shurukins would do the job ,

Lol,kakashi doesn't even need all that ,he can kamui snipe sasuke's PS head along with sasuke,sasuke's PS isn't a problem to kakashi at all

Yes,kakashi's PS can be destroyed by naruto's TTBRS ,but kakashi can just warp them with kamui shurukins ,all naruto 's long range attacks gets warped by kamui shurukins ,or kamui shurukin is the only thing that can be blocked in your dictionary!!?

You underestimate bm minato's role in this fight ,I say it again ,he and jiubiobito will be enough to beat naruto
All naruto's long range attacks( TTBRS,CYRS...etc) are teleported away by minato's s/t barrier or maybe redirected ,then naruto will be gudomasless ,jiubiobito can end the fight with jiubidomas ,minato can teleport with the branch till jiubidomas will be charged ,then minato comes back with 4 charged jiubibombs

 

[KidGamer65]

Todays chapter confirms Sasuke is BM Naruto level, so BM Minato > BM Naruto >= Sasuke
Kakashi with kamui hax alongside Jubito defeat Naruto
Sakura is fodder anyway

Smh.

-Stronger Naruto=Stronger Avatar. Naruto gained half of Hagoromo's chakra and Rikudo Senjutsu. (Which is Sage Mode on steroids) Yet you think that his current BM Avatar is the same as before? Rikudo Senjutsu Kurama Avatar=Normal Kurama Avatar? Lol, what?

-Sasuke's PS cuts up things that dwarf anything that Naruto has ever blown up, and it cuts things much bigger than what the Juubi's Laser pulled off, yet Naruto lost 6 tails from that attack, and clashed with the stronger attack this chapter, and only lost a tail after the exchange was finished. Yet BM Avatar=Sasuke's Susanoo?

Rikudo Naruto stalemating Sasuke in the manga already proves that he fodderslaps BM Naruto, and by extension BM Minato, with absolutely no effort despite what you believe.

I hope this is some kind of bad troll.

 

[Bogard]

Smh.

-Stronger Naruto=Stronger Avatar. Naruto gained half of Hagoromo's chakra and Rikudo Senjutsu. (Which is Sage Mode on steroids) Yet you think that his current BM Avatar is the same as before? Rikudo Senjutsu Kurama Avatar=Normal Kurama Avatar? Lol, what?

-Sasuke's PS cuts up things that dwarf anything that Naruto has ever blown up, and it cuts things much bigger than what the Juubi's Laser pulled off, yet Naruto lost 6 tails from that attack, and clashed with the stronger attack this chapter, and only lost a tail after the exchange was finished. Yet BM Avatar=Sasuke's Susanoo?

Rikudo Naruto stalemating Sasuke in the manga already proves that he fodderslaps BM Naruto, and by extension BM Minato, with absolutely no effort despite what you believe.

I hope this is some kind of bad troll.

You're only speculating that Rikudo chakra make the avatar stronger when there is no concrete proof that it's actually stronger. I'm just using the same logic you guys were giving to the version2 Jubito being no different than V1 and that the drastically change in form was just for the show just because manga never concretely said it's different, or should i say you think it didn't. I didn't actually believe what i was saying, just using you people logic which seems like the real troll to me

 

[Raykyryn]

Can go either way.

 

[KidGamer65]

You're only speculating that Rikudo chakra make the avatar stronger when there is no concrete proof that it's actually stronger.

Lol, what is with these facepalm worthy posts I'm seeing?

1. Naruto uses Rikudo Senjutsu, thus all his jutsu are powered up. Fact. Just how Sage Mode increased his Bijuu Mode Avatar.

2. It clashes equally with something much stronger than his old avatar. Thus it got stronger.

There is plenty of concrete proof that it got stronger.

I'm just using the same logic you guys were giving to the version2 Jubito being no different than V1 and that the drastically change in form was just for the show just because manga never concretely said it's different, or should i say you think it didn't. I didn't actually believe what i was saying, just using you people logic which seems like the real troll to me

As usual when I encounter situations like this, its just the other party attempting to use the same logic, even though all they end up doing is twisting it around to make it look like we were using bad logic, even though its just them. And I see you are still twisting around the statement. How in the world do you get "V2 Juubito is no different than V1 Juubito" from "V2 Juubito is no faster than V1 Juubito?" Oh wait, you don't.

-V2 Juubito didn't gain anything that V1 Juubito didn't have already, that would increase his speed. Unlike Naruto.

-V2 Juubito wasn't stated or shown to get a power increase. Naruto's Kurama Avatar was shown to be stronger.

You can stop comparing the two situations now, because they are not the same. Not at all.

 

[Bogard]

1. Naruto uses Rikudo Senjutsu, thus all his jutsu are powered up. Fact. Just how Sage Mode increased his Bijuu Mode Avatar.

All his jutsus increase, but the avatar isn't his jutsu. The avatar is Kyubi himself that comes out of the body. Reason why when Madara captured the avatar with gedo mazo's chains, Naruto died because Kyubi avatar completely went out of his body. For all we know, he can't upgrade the power of Kyubi's avatar

2. It clashes equally with something much stronger than his old avatar. Thus it got stronger.

Once again prove that the old avatar couldn't have accomplished that feat. And no the Perfect Susanoo cuting larger meteorites example doesn't work considering you've no proof EMS Madara's perfect Susanoo couldn't have accomplished the same feat simply because EMS Madara's perfect Susanoo was never put in that situation. For all we know he can regulate the power of his slashes depending on the target. Not to mention, we don't even see how Sasuke cut them. We only see one of his strikes. For all we know he used multiple strikes just like Madara's Perfect Susanoo could as well

How in the world do you get "V2 Juubito is no different than V1 Juubito" from "V2 Juubito is no faster than V1 Juubito?" Oh wait, you don't.

I'm not twisting at all. I'm just telling you that thinking everything upgraded in v2 Jubito besides his speed is already faulty because V2 Jubito is supposed to have better control over his power and better control means better in everything, speed, power, reflexes, strength, intelligence and so on.

-V2 Juubito didn't gain anything that V1 Juubito didn't have already, that would increase his speed. Unlike Naruto.

No the manga did imply an increase in speed. If he didn't become faster, Tobirama wouldn't have been surprised by his speed when he blocked the explosive gudodama. He already saw how fast V1 Jubito actually was. Why would he be surprised again to see a same regularly speed he already seen if the individual wasn't actually faster than he predicted? No, he was blatantly surprised V2 Jubito was fast enough to block the explosion of that gudodama despite knowing how fast V1 Jubito is. With that, it's pretty simple to arrive to the conclusion that V2 Jubito is faster/control his speed better. Just because it didn't specifically said it doesn't mean it didn't change and it's the exact logic i'm using with Naruto here. Since the manga never said the Kyubi avatar is stronger because Naruto has rikudo chakra, then i'll say it's not stronger either using your own logic

You can stop comparing the two situations now, because they are not the same. Not at all.

Yes they are. V2 Jubito gets a drastical change in form for the show and no reason whatsover. Naruto has no avatar change in form(or barely) despite Rikudo chakra and suddenly it's stronger/faster

 

[KidGamer65]

All his jutsus increase, but the avatar isn't his jutsu. The avatar is Kyubi himself that comes out of the body. Reason why when Madara captured the avatar with gedo mazo's chains, Naruto died because Kyubi avatar completely went out of his body. For all we know, he can't upgrade the power of Kyubi's avatar

Manga disagrees. The Kurama Avatar received a boost from Naruto's Sage Mode, as shown by the markings on its face. So you can increase its power with Sage Mode. Rikudo Senjutsu is a boost identical in mechanics, but much stronger in strength than Sage Mode. Thus Naruto's Avatar gets a buff.

Once again prove that the old avatar couldn't have accomplished that feat. And no the Perfect Susanoo cuting larger meteorites example doesn't work considering you've no proof EMS Madara's perfect Susanoo couldn't have accomplished the same feat simply because EMS Madara's perfect Susanoo was never put in that situation. For all we know he can regulate the power of his slashes depending on the target. Not to mention, we don't even see how Sasuke cut them. We only see one of his strikes. For all we know he used multiple strikes just like Madara's Perfect Susanoo could as well

@bold: Now that's where we start to tread into fanfiction. If you have to make up other things to support your argument, then that alone should already tell you the whole argument is invalid. Madara's PS cuts Mountains, and nothing more. He swung his blade, and 2 Mountains along with the landscape around was cut, nothing more, nothing less. Sasuke swung his blade, and a Shinju trunk sized Meteor was cut in half.

And no, we know how he cut them. He bisected one meteor (

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) and he cut the two pieces up into smaller pieces. So he cuts through this Meteor with one strike, he only cut it multiple times to cut it into smaller pieces.

Unless you have the feats or statements, nothing implies that EMS Madara's Perfect Susanoo can pull that off. Nothing at all.

Not to mention Madara's Susanoo is completely irrelevant to me. Chopping up that meteor means that his attack is much stronger than Juubi's laser, which took out 6 of Naruto's tails. Naruto's Avatar clashed with Sasuke's sword last chapter, and after 3 or 4 clashes, he is only missing one tail. You do the math. Bringing Madara's Susanoo into this doesn't change things, it only forces you to drop the whole thing, or it forces you to admit that Naruto's old Kurama Avatar also gets fodderized by Madara's Susanoo.

I'm not twisting at all. I'm just telling you that thinking everything upgraded in v2 Jubito besides his speed is already faulty because V2 Jubito is supposed to have better control over his power and better control means better in everything, speed, power, reflexes, strength, intelligence and so on.

Except the only things that changed is that he got the Gudo Dama, and control of himself. Nothing else changed, at all. Better control=Better control. Better control does not equal Better abilities. Control and Strength are not directly proportional. Him getting better control means he uses his abilities better. Nothing more.

I never said everything but his speed increased. So yes, you are twisting my words around.

No the manga did imply an increase in speed. If he didn't become faster, Tobirama wouldn't have been surprised by his speed when he blocked the explosive gudodama. He already saw how fast V1 Jubito actually was. Why would he be surprised again to see a same regularly speed he already seen if the individual wasn't actually faster than he predicted? No, he was blatantly surprised V2 Jubito was fast enough to block the explosion of that gudodama despite knowing how fast V1 Jubito is. With that, it's pretty simple to arrive to the conclusion that V2 Jubito is faster/control his speed better. Just because it didn't specifically said it doesn't mean it didn't change and it's the exact logic i'm using with Naruto here. Since the manga never said the Kyubi avatar is stronger because Naruto has rikudo chakra, then i'll say it's not stronger either using your own logic

He was surprised at the speed of his defense, I.E the Gudo Dama and how fast he managed to use them to protect himself, which is not the same as Juubito's body speed, which the ONLY thing Tobirama witnessed.

@bold: Lol, you keep trying to use my logic, but you keep leaving out the small details that render these comparisons fallacious and invalid. I stated, that nothing shows, implies or states that Juubito got faster, thus he didn't. Naruto having Rikudo Senjutsu implies his avatar got stronger. Naruto clashing equally with something stronger than his old Avatar shows that it got stronger.

Yes they are. V2 Jubito gets a drastical change in form for the show and no reason whatsover. Naruto has no avatar change in form(or barely) despite Rikudo chakra and suddenly it's stronger/faster

The benefits from Obito's change were shown, and that is better control and the Gudo Dama, along with more abilities that his better control grants him. Nothing was shown, stated nor is there anything he gained that would increase his physical abilities.

-Naruto has Rikudo Senjutsu. Reason enough to believe his avatar is stronger.

-Naruto clashes with something much stronger than his old Avatar.

They are not the same. The amount of evidence for Juubito getting faster=0. There are two major pieces of evidence that prove Naruto's Avatar is stronger.

 

[Bogard]

Manga disagrees. The Kurama Avatar received a boost from Naruto's Sage Mode, as shown by the markings on its face. So you can increase its power with Sage Mode. Rikudo Senjutsu is a boost identical in mechanics, but much stronger in strength than Sage Mode. Thus Naruto's Avatar gets a buff.

Which marking are you talking about? I know i don't read the manga as properly as i used to but i'm pretty certain i saw no difference between both avatars the last time i read it

@bold: Now that's where we start to tread into fanfiction. If you have to make up other things to support your argument, then that alone should already tell you the whole argument is invalid. Madara's PS cuts Mountains, and nothing more. He swung his blade, and 2 Mountains along with the landscape around was cut, nothing more, nothing less. Sasuke swung his blade, and a Shinju trunk sized Meteor was cut in half.

How is that a fanfiction. If you read other mangas like One Piece you'd understand what i'm talking about. There are swordsmen who are capable to regulate the power of their slashes. Mihawk(a one piece character) for example can go from this

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To this

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So what i'm saying is not entirely impossible. For example, Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo slashes himself not always have the meteorite cuting effect. Besides in that instance against the meteorites have you ever seen his Susanoo produce the same type of destructive capacity again?

And no, we know how he cut them. He bisected one meteor (

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) and he cut the two pieces up into smaller pieces. So he cuts through this Meteor with one strike, he only cut it multiple times to cut it into smaller pieces.

Hm maybe it's just me but i don't even see his Susanoo on that page. So how do you tell?

Unless you have the feats or statements, nothing implies that EMS Madara's Perfect Susanoo can pull that off. Nothing at all.

Nothing imply it, never denied that, but nothing proves he can't either and that's the issue i'm defending

Not to mention Madara's Susanoo is completely irrelevant to me. Chopping up that meteor means that his attack is much stronger than Juubi's laser, which took out 6 of Naruto's tails. Naruto's Avatar clashed with Sasuke's sword last chapter, and after 3 or 4 clashes, he is only missing one tail. You do the math. Bringing Madara's Susanoo into this doesn't change things, it only forces you to drop the whole thing, or it forces you to admit that Naruto's old Kurama Avatar also gets fodderized by Madara's Susanoo.

@Bold how do you know it means it's much stronger than Jubi laser? How do you Jubi laser can't chop those meteors? Jubi's lasers can cross multiple mountain ranges and even countries far from each other. Either you're understimating the power as well as range of Jubi's bijudama or you don't know what you're talking about.

Except the only things that changed is that he got the Gudo Dama, and control of himself. Nothing else changed, at all. Better control=Better control. Better control does not equal Better abilities. Control and Strength are not directly proportional. Him getting better control means he uses his abilities better. Nothing more.

Better control does change. I don't know how to explain it to you for you to understand but once again if you read other mangas like One Piece there is a character called Kuma who lost his brain and control at some point in time and he wasn't the same anymore. The dude had the ability to teleport and was a fast moving character and it wasn't easy just to hit him(even for top tier characters), but the moment he lost his brain/control even while he remained with his same abilities or almost, even fodders could tag him simply because he wasn't knowing what he was doing. Here is where a difference in control can influence in a fight

I never said everything but his speed increased. So yes, you are twisting my words around.

Maybe but we're discussing on the speed point, so i only bothered adressing that part

He was surprised at the speed of his defense, I.E the Gudo Dama and how fast he managed to use them to protect himself, which is not the same as Juubito's body speed, which the ONLY thing Tobirama witnessed.

And how is that really different? To be able to protect yourself with a shield, you need to move fast enough to use it

@bold: Lol, you keep trying to use my logic, but you keep leaving out the small details that render these comparisons fallacious and invalid. I stated, that nothing shows, implies or states that Juubito got faster, thus he didn't. Naruto having Rikudo Senjutsu implies his avatar got stronger. Naruto clashing equally with something stronger than his old Avatar shows that it got stronger.

No it's clearly implied to me and i already gave the example. Now it's up to you to believe the manga implied it or not. I guess it just depends on how someone read the manga


You said more or less the same thing in the final paragraph

 

[Strict]

How isn't it obvious that RM Naruto is just in every sense far above BSM Naruto.
The Kyuubi avatar is Naruto's signature and the equivalent of Sasuke's Susanoo; and besides that, apart from the Kyuubi, the Jinchuriki are simply transforming into their Bijuu when entering Bijuu-mode.

RM Naruto has Chakra of all the Bijuu and Hagoromo's Yang-Chakra. He is simply in a different league in every sense. How the fuck can this be debatable?

 

[Strict]

How is that a fanfiction. If you read other mangas like One Piece you'd understand what i'm talking about. There are swordsmen who are capable to regulate the power of their slashes. Mihawk(a one piece character) for example can go from this

Spoiler

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To this

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Let me make a better comparison.

Super Saiyan Goku in the Cell arc >>>>>>>> Super Saiyan Goku in the Frieza Arc.

Rikudo Naruto in Kurama Mode >>>>>>> Base Naruto in Kurama Mode.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Not sure why Bogard is trying to debate this. Team Minato gets negged.

 

[Sjhsgjhsgjshjshjsh]

So you don't include kakashi in team 7 ,but include minato instead of rin that team ?

Team 7 still win

 

[KidGamer65]

Which marking are you talking about? I know i don't read the manga as properly as i used to but i'm pretty certain i saw no difference between both avatars the last time i read it

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There are rings around Naruto's Avatar, before they weren't rings, they just looked like how they do on Minato's Avatar.

How is that a fanfiction. If you read other mangas like One Piece you'd understand what i'm talking about. There are swordsmen who are capable to regulate the power of their slashes. Mihawk(a one piece character) for example can go from this

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To this

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So what i'm saying is not entirely impossible. For example, Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo slashes himself not always have the meteorite cuting effect. Besides in that instance against the meteorites have you ever seen his Susanoo produce the same type of destructive capacity again?

There is zero evidence that Madara purposely weakened the power of his sword slash when the whole point of going full power is to use your full power. Sure, he can regulate it, doesn't mean that he did. That's why its fanfic.

Hm maybe it's just me but i don't even see his Susanoo on that page. So how do you tell?

You don't need to see his Susanoo. You can see that the two rocks on the right side have been split into two even pieces, and its a clean cut, meaning he did that with one slash.

Nothing imply it, never denied that, but nothing proves he can't either and that's the issue i'm defending

Except the fact that he used his full power and only cut Mountains and the landscape surrounding said Mountains, while Sasuke swung his blade and cut Meteors far larger than Mountains. There is no comparison here. Feats don't agree with Madara being able to cut what Sasuke can cut.

@Bold how do you know it means it's much stronger than Jubi laser? How do you Jubi laser can't chop those meteors? Jubi's lasers can cross multiple mountain ranges and even countries far from each other. Either you're understimating the power as well as range of Jubi's bijudama or you don't know what you're talking about.

The Juubi's Laser plowed through a

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. Sasuke cut up rocks dwarf Mountain Ranges after they've been cut up, so Sasuke's PS is FAR stronger than the Juubi's Laser.

-Juubi's laser has never been shown crossing multiple Mountain Ranges.

-Juubi's laser has never been shown crossing countries.

We are talking about the laser from its first stage, not its Bijuu Dama in its stronger, second stage.

Better control does change. I don't know how to explain it to you for you to understand but once again if you read other mangas like One Piece there is a character called Kuma who lost his brain and control at some point in time and he wasn't the same anymore. The dude had the ability to teleport and was a fast moving character and it wasn't easy just to hit him(even for top tier characters), but the moment he lost his brain/control even while he remained with his same abilities or almost, even fodders could tag him simply because he wasn't knowing what he was doing. Here is where a difference in control can influence in a fight

It doesn't mean that he got slower, it means that he couldn't use his speed when he needed it the most, if I understand what you are saying here, and I think I do. Same thing with Juubito. He did not get faster, he only knows how and when to use his speed.

And how is that really different? To be able to protect yourself with a shield, you need to move fast enough to use it

Juubito Shunshin'ing and Juubito controlling the Gudo Dama with his mind aren't the same, because mental reactions are far faster than physical reactions. Even if he needed to make hand movements to control it, as Tobirama shows us, hand movements and arm movements are faster than moving from Point A to Point B.

No it's clearly implied to me and i already gave the example. Now it's up to you to believe the manga implied it or not. I guess it just depends on how someone read the manga

No, its not, its not implied at all.