Susanoo Users Lose To Bansho Tenin

[Edogawa]

Susanoo doesn't have a mass

Chakra has a mass therefore is affected by gravity obviously. We know this because Onoki made Susanoo Clones heavy using Earth Heavy Rock Jutsu, which uses gravity to dictate the mass of the desired target, and in Onoki's case was make them heavy. Bansho Tenin manipulates the existing gravity (earth's) to either pull the target to the user or in telekinesis manner. Susanoo is therefore can be pulled, if Bansho Tenin was used on it.

If Nagato/Pain pulls Susanoo via Bansho Tenin, Susanoo also follows the user

This misconception is false too for the fact we've seen Susanoo physically separated from the user multiple times in the manga. Susanoo isn't actually physically merged with the user, but is mentally linked and manifested in 360 degree manner. It can be separated, however; we've seen this with Gaara:

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Bansho Tenin is different from the sand, and would be superior in that case because Nagato has shown to pinpoint whatever target he wants to pulls via Bansho Tenin. Unlike a sand forcibly pulling a target, Bansho Ten'n utilizes gravity to pull something and Nagato has shown to pinpoint specifically, and no thing in the universe is resistant to gravity, not even light.

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Susanoo would lose to Bansho Tenin because the user can be pulled away like Gaara did, and Susanoo would be deactivated immediately.

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[Rikudou Tobi]

I’m all for pain’s decorated rinnegan powers and all but the argument here isn’t whether or not susanoo has mass, it’s about whether or not it moves with the user when being pulled. Which Sasuke shows that it does.

The only reason why gaara was able to separate Madara from susanoo is because he needed sand to hold down susanoo. (Because chakra can hold chakra) bansho tenin has no way of holding susanoo down seperately.

Pain would need to use Bansho tenin and something else to seperate susanoo from the user.

 

[SenseiSama]

Pain couldn't even use BT against 4T Kurama so your argument kinds gets thrown in the trash. It took a JuubiJin for Sasuke's avatar to fail, and he didn't even have Rikudou chakra at the time, and it wasn't even PS.


PS is Indra's feat, only someone with equivalent or more power can undo the avatar when it's at full strength. So unless you're an incarnate or have Six Path power, forget about countering Susanoo.

 

[Edogawa]

I’m all for pain’s decorated rinnegan powers and all but the argument here isn’t whether or not susanoo has mass, it’s about whether or not it moves with the user when being pulled. Which Sasuke shows that it does.

The only reason why gaara was able to separate Madara from susanoo is because he needed sand to hold down susanoo. (Because chakra can hold chakra) bansho tenin has no way of holding susanoo down seperately.

Pain would need to use Bansho tenin and something else to seperate susanoo from the user.

Bansho Tenin can be pinpointed to a specific target to pull him, and the example is the last panel. Think of it as this:

Wood (Susanoo) and nail (user) are attached in the manner as Susanoo; Bansho Tenin would pull the nail (user) without pulling Susanoo as a whole, since BT dictates the desired target it pulls. Same thing happened with the sand.

 

[Mori Jin]

Tsunade broke Susanoo and so did the Raikage.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Bansho Tenin can be pinpointed to a specific target to pull him, and the example is the last panel. Think of it as this:

Wood (Susanoo) and nail (user) are attached in the manner as Susanoo; Bansho Tenin would pull the nail (user) without pulling Susanoo as a whole, since BT dictates the desired target it pulls. Same thing happened with the sand.

Yeah but unlike the wood and the nail, suano'o and the uchiha are the same. It's their chakra. If bansho tenin was capable of separating chakra from the user than naruto's kyubi cloak would've been separated from naruto here.

Spoiler

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The only way for bansho tenin to separate susano'o(chakra) from the user is by pain injecting one or the other with black chakra receivers followed by bansho tenin.
Because chakra can separate chakra like gaara's sand did.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

I think they do.

 

[SenseiSama]

Tsunade broke Susanoo and so did the Raikage.

She broke the weakest version of Susanoo smdh



Claiming BT can break PS is like claiming it can break BM. Madara's PS tanked bijuudama explosions and withstood Shinsuusenju, there is no way in hell BT is doing anything against Susanoo. It's called an absolute defence for a reason.

 

[SenseiSama]

I’m all for pain’s decorated rinnegan powers and all but the argument here isn’t whether or not susanoo has mass, it’s about whether or not it moves with the user when being pulled. Which Sasuke shows that it does.

The only reason why gaara was able to separate Madara from susanoo is because he needed sand to hold down susanoo. (Because chakra can hold chakra) bansho tenin has no way of holding susanoo down seperately.

Pain would need to use Bansho tenin and something else to seperate susanoo from the user.

Mass absolutely affects Deva it's basic physics. If mass was not a factor Sasuke would've used BT on Naruto and Nagato would have no problem containing Kurama.


You also have t realize that in the end of the day all jutsu acan be countered if the person's chakra is strong enough. Someone with ability to use PS has the chakra to counter any of Nagato's feats.


It took a JuubiJin for EMS Sasuke's avatar to break and do not even get me started on his VoTE 2 form.

 

[Mori Jin]

She broke the weakest version of Susanoo smdh



Claiming BT can break PS is like claiming it can break BM. Madara's PS tanked bijuudama explosions and withstood Shinsuusenju, there is no way in hell BT is doing anything against Susanoo. It's called an absolute defence for a reason.

Should have been more specific then. It was still a Susanoo she broke. Didn't claim anything, stated a fact. Tsunade broke it.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Mass absolutely affects Deva it's basic physics. If mass was not a factor Sasuke would've used BT on Naruto and Nagato would have no problem containing Kurama.


You also have t realize that in the end of the day all jutsu acan be countered if the person's chakra is strong enough. Someone with ability to use PS has the chakra to counter any of Nagato's feats.


It took a JuubiJin for EMS Sasuke's avatar to break and do not even get me started on his VoTE 2 form.

I have no idea on what you are talking about but mass has nothing to do with. Whether your chakra is dense or not, susano'o follows the user everywhere it goes. The only way you can separate it is if you suppress the chakra from the user.

And Sasuke does not have bansho tenin either. Chibaku tensei does not carry the same exact functions as shinra tensei and bansho tenin.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Bansho Tenin can be pinpointed to a specific target to pull him, and the example is the last panel. Think of it as this:

Wood (Susanoo) and nail (user) are attached in the manner as Susanoo; Bansho Tenin would pull the nail (user) without pulling Susanoo as a whole, since BT dictates the desired target it pulls. Same thing happened with the sand.

Dont bring physics into this. It doesnt work like that. Onoki used his spiritual jutsu on the sand which was already spiritual. Why didnt gaara do that before onoki lightened his sand? Susanoo is not even chakra. Its armour is. Chakra cannot roar like a living being or store tailed beast chakra inside it. Mei used lava but couldnt melt Sasuke's susanoo at first and had to mix her mist acid jutsu KKG to melt Susanoo. Why do you think Susanoo destruction always follows such an order? Because Susanoo is created with two eyes and the databook says they're 'heavenly eyes' and heaven = spirit in narutoverse. So two KKGs working in unison are necessary to destro or pull the user insde Susanoo from it.

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Mei couldnt melt with lava alone . Lava + mist in combination.

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Whats common between this scan and the earlier scan? Yup, two spirit jutsus are working together, gaara's sand and onoki lightened weight rocks technique which lightened tengai shinsei, a spiritual jutsu.
If you question my analysis, then explain why gaara didnt do it before onoki lightened it. Because he couldnt. Two spiritual techniques are necessary and should work in combo because Susanoo is a spiritual god available to those who awakened MS in both eyes so your fanfic should end here brother. Double MS Susanoo = Double KKG combo attack/ Double spiritual technique combo attack.

 

[Edogawa]

Yeah but unlike the wood and the nail, suano'o and the uchiha are the same. It's their chakra. If bansho tenin was capable of separating chakra from the user than naruto's kyubi cloak would've been separated from naruto here.

Spoiler

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The only way for bansho tenin to separate susano'o(chakra) from the user is by pain injecting one or the other with black chakra receivers followed by bansho tenin.
Because chakra can separate chakra like gaara's sand did.

Your comparison is false. Naruto is cloaked with Kurama's Chakra (organically and physically), it's impossible to separate it without a limb. Susanoo isn't a cloak or physically intact with the user. It's just manifestation with mass. We've seen Susanoo physically separated from the user Gaara. BT will pull the user because Nagato can pinpoint gravity to where he wants, and all things are affected by it.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Your comparison is false. Naruto is cloaked with Kurama's Chakra (organically and physically), it's impossible to separate it without a limb. Susanoo isn't a cloak or physically intact with the user. It's just manifestation with mass. We've seen Susanoo physically separated from the user Gaara. BT will pull the user because Nagato can pinpoint gravity to where he wants, and all things are affected by it.

Nagato didnt do it though. So my above explanation is valid. You're going against manga here with your stupid bias assumptions.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Your comparison is false. Naruto is cloaked with Kurama's Chakra (organically and physically), it's impossible to separate it without a limb. Susanoo isn't a cloak or physically intact with the user. It's just manifestation with mass. We've seen Susanoo physically separated from the user Gaara. BT will pull the user because Nagato can pinpoint gravity to where he wants, and all things are affected by it.

Completely wrong. Chakra does not discriminate no matter the materialization. If you can separate chakra just by pulling somebody then why isn't Sasuke dead here?

Spoiler

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Naruto has his chakra arm around the susano'o hand and not sasuke himself yet he didn't fall into the lava. So why didn't Sasuke fall in the lava?

If Bansho tenin is to seperate susano'o, pain will need to use black chakra receivers first.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Nagato didnt do it though. So my above explanation is valid. You're going against manga here with your stupid bias assumptions.

Didn't=/=can't.

 

[Edogawa]

Completely wrong. Chakra does not discriminate no matter the materialization. If you can separate chakra just by pulling somebody then why isn't Sasuke dead here?

Spoiler

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Naruto has his chakra arm around the susano'o hand and not sasuke himself yet he didn't fall into the lava. So why didn't Sasuke fall in the lava?

If Bansho tenin is to seperate susano'o, pain will need to use black chakra receivers first.

You're taking my words out of context. I didn't say anyone can separate user from Chakra just by pulling him. Chakra can't be pulled by what you're suggesting, unless it's physically materialized like Susanoo. Susanoo is materialized, manifested around the user hence why it moves anywhere the user goes (it's a defense after all) and the user can be separated resulting in Susanoo's disappearance. This has canonically happened. No point in denying this. The sand could do that because it went underneath leg-less Susanoo and pulled Madara out of it, all thanks to Onoki's Doton gravity. Bansho Tenin can accomplish that because it manipulates gravity, which is the force that keeps the universe intact. Bansho Tenin can be pinpointed at anything, which can do the same to the user instead of Susanoo, like the sand did.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

You're taking my words out of context. I didn't say anyone can separate user from Chakra just by pulling him. Chakra can't be pulled by what you're suggesting, unless it's physically materialized like Susanoo. Susanoo is materialized, manifested around the user hence why it moves anywhere the user goes (it's a defense after all) and the user can be separated resulting in Susanoo's disappearance. This has canonically happened. No point in denying this. The sand could do that because it went underneath leg-less Susanoo and pulled Madara out of it, all thanks to Onoki's Doton gravity. Bansho Tenin can accomplish that because it manipulates gravity, which is the force that keeps the universe intact. Bansho Tenin can be pinpointed at anything, which can do the same to the user instead of Susanoo, like the sand did.

The gravity was to make gaara's chakra heavy enough to weight down susano'o. It's the chakra that made susano'o stay where it is in the first place enabling gaara to pull madara from underneath. That's what you're not understanding, it's chakra suppressing down chakra, once that action is done you can move the user wherever you want without having to worry about the susano'o following after the user.

Without that, susanoo will follow the susano'o user whether by bansho tenin or some other method similar to gaara that doesn't involve chakra.

 

[Edogawa]

The gravity was to make gaara's chakra heavy enough to weight down susano'o. It's the chakra that made susano'o stay where it is in the first place enabling gaara to pull madara from underneath. That's what you're not understanding, it's chakra suppressing down chakra, once that action is done you can move the user wherever you want without having to worry about the susano'o following after the user.

Without that, susanoo will follow the susano'o user whether by bansho tenin or some other method similar to gaara that doesn't involve chakra.

Earth Light Weight Jutsu doesn't make target heavy, it makes them light and was used on Gaara's sand to make it faster, not used on Susanoo. Sand isn't Chakra and it doesn't suppress Chakra or Susanoo. It went underneath leg-less Susanoo (weakness) and pulled Madara out of it. No such thing sand suppressing Susanoo or Chakra.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Didn't=/=can't.

If nagato could do that to bee and naruto then it is = he cant because he didnt do it to itachi or absorb his susanoo. Two KKG are necessary to pull a user of susanoo or destroy the susanoo as proven by mei combining lava and vapour to break or onoki combining his spiritual lightening jutsu with gaara's spiritual sand.

Gaara sand being his mother's spirit proof :-

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Gaara sand (spiritual) + onoki lighten jutsu (spiritual) = Susanoo user being ripped out.
If gaara could do it alone he could've used the sand underneath madara's susanoo before his sand was lightened by onoki.